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Thread: Chapter 394 "The Devils of Ohara" Discussion

  1. #201

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivotas
    What do you mean this obviously isn´t the case? Where it is obvious that Tsuru and the other´s are not of same rank? They even were the same coats so it can´t be a visual difference. The only difference between Tsuru and the others is that the others are unnamed and that has a very plausible reason. The others are canon fodder for Doflamingo. You don´t introduce a big player only to be toyed around by a Shichibukai. That´s what the unnamed ones are there for.
    You exept vice-admirals to be cannon fodder? I'm sorry but that makes no sense. So the others weren't introduced because Donflamingo was toying with them? By that logic the other people sitting at the table wuld have had been introducd as well. We know there was at least one other man not named there. Why was he not named then?

    Yeah right, Tsuru is Chief-Adviser and all the others except Sengoku are other advisers. What kind of bullshit meeting would that be with just advisers and only one high ranked Marine head there? If Sengoku would be the only non-advisor officer there, then they are all just directing towards him. In that case he doesn´t need to call for a meeting. They could all just come to his office. That doesn´t make any sense. In a meeting of such imporance there´s more officers of equal rank present. Thats the point of a meeting.
    Never said it was, I was using that as a possibility. How is being one rank under a vice-admiral not being of a high rank? Even Marine HQ captians are a high rank. Obviously Tsuru has a spezilized field. Whats to say the other vice-admirals don't?

    Yet how many confirmed vice-admirals did you see here? Only one.


    Oh I strongly disagree here. I think that there is pretty much Vice-Admirals out there. If it would be a fairly small amount then Nico Robin would be more specific on the power of Vice-Admirals among the Buster Call. But she just says that it is 5 Vice-Admirals that are part of it, as if the Marine HQ has a big resource on them.

    Hiw does that imply that they have a big resource of them? For all we know there are only five. That would make more sense seeing as the buster call seems to rarley ever to be used.

    I think I just explained that. The Marine HQ does seem to have a bigger resource on Vice-Admirals and Doflamingo needs canon fodder. It would be a waste of their character to have John Giant and Garp be there to be toyed around by Doflamingo.

    I agree it would be a waste fot John Giant and Garp to be there. but would it n ot make sense that the connon fodder would be those that are not vice-admirals.


    You can dislike it as much as you want. Big military meetings that determine the fate of a government are usually held by high ranked officers. That is a fact.

    There ARE exeptions. and besides this is One Piece not the real world.
    ---------------------------------

    We havn't seen Tsuru say a single word the entire series


  2. #202

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    Quote Originally Posted by Octogon


    We havn't seen Tsuru say a single word the entire series
    What are you talking about?

    She asked Donquixote to stop and identified Lafitte.
    Complicating things since 2009.

  3. #203
    The Sock Pirate Voodzik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by omae no kaasan v.2
    Dude, that movie isn't even like coming out 'til 2007 right? How did it become so popular XD
    Pleas forgive me for being uber-n00bish here, but what movie is this?:wacko:
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  4. #204

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq
    What are you talking about?

    She asked Donquixote to stop and identified Lafitte.

    I just looked back and you are correct.


    @ Ivotas: Even if they were of the same rank. How would that change the fact that no one is going to be able to counter such a ability so easily, let alone one of someonw whose bounty exeded 300 million. Plus we can tell that is the type of person donflamingo is, playing around for no spcecific reason.

    So that can't be used in any way to measure the strengh of the vice-Admirals.

  5. #205
    Guy who doesn't post much Pivitor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voodzik
    Pleas forgive me for being uber-n00bish here, but what movie is this?:wacko:
    SNAKES ON A PLANE!

    yes, that's actually the name of the movie.

  6. #206
    The Sock Pirate Voodzik's Avatar
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    the title....wow

    Alright, so maybe we'll get clover's theory and maybe not...but who wants to bet we'll be getting a three to four year long arc at some point that totally outlines the world history?

    I cannot WAIT for that.

    Anyway, I see the flashback ending next chapter maybe....and then onto the CP9 fight!
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  7. #207

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    My goodness, Octogon is back with that admitedly tiring argument.

  8. #208
    Discovered Stowaway Ivotas's Avatar
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    @ Octogon: I´ll make short this time.

    1. I see the unnamed Vice-Admirals as canon fodder. Because if you compare T-Bone to Smoker they are both Marine HQ Captains and yet T-Bone is nothing but canon fodder to Zoro while Smoker obviously is far above that.

    2. I have no further interest talking to you about Marine Admiral rankings because I very well remember your great Marine "Core" discussion from last week. No matter what argument I would bring it would be wasted and we would bother our fellow co-members with anoying stuff so I´m ending it here.




  9. #209
    Division Commander Daz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq
    Because the Shichibukai are still essentially doing what they were before and now has the official approval of the World Government in exchange for a little gold now and then. No interference from anybody in the Navy and people who interfere with them are attacking a Government institution.

    It's a sweetheart deal.
    They are not doing "essentially the same thing". A schichibukai is not allowed to attack, say, the money exchange in Water 7, which evidently has more than 300 million belli in stock- that's as much as Doflamingos bounty. They're prohibited from attacking passenger ships or settlements of any kind, and thusly cannot raid an entire country, like the Blackbeard pirates did. I imagine the loot from such an act would be quite substantial.

    An whole other point is that the Schichibukai lose their crew. Big deal you might say, but as we've seen, the most powerful pirates can gather hundreds of men, who're all members of a cult, where you're the one who gets worshipped. They can even form a floating society.
    In short, I'd pick Foxys' life over Crocodiles' any day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq
    Why would Crocodile want that much military power if he wasn't intent on carving off at least a healthy chunk of the world for himself?
    But why'd he need to have the cover of being a Schichibukai, and the power of Pluton to pull it off, if he's tougher than anything the marines' got - which you said is the basis for the Schichibukais' existance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq
    Because killing the Naval Chief of Staff at his own headquarters is simply not a good idea regardless of who you are. A Shichibukai should be able to stand against a healthy chunk of whatever the Marines can throw at him, but that doesn't mean that he can take them all on by himself.
    It's not like every marine in the world can teleport to Marijoa, and again, you just said that the 'Bukai were tougher, or at least on par with everything the marine has.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq
    If he's immobile anyway, then what difference does it make if he's frozen? His power would already been active and would simply dehydrate the ice. Unless freezing him shuts down his power, which I don't see why it would.
    He has to mentally activate the dehydration, otherwise he wouldn't be able to carry an object. And freezing him solid should shut down his mental activity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq
    Well, doesn't it make sense that the former bounty would be the point where the World Government gave up and offered them amnesty?
    It could also be that, like Blackbeard, Croc just earned enough of a bounty to prove himself 'bukai worthy, and then joined.
    And I really don't see Croc as being that hard to catch, not with the net-guns used against Buggy and Alvida. Sure, he might turn into a swirling cloud of sand, but a wet Luffy could hit him while in this mode, so I don't see why seastone-nets shouldn't have a similar effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq
    Then explain the existence of the Shichibukai, the continued expansion of piracy, and the Gorosei authorizing Spandam to look for Pluton.
    There's a whole planet full of pirates. The marine only have a limited supply of men, whereas all over the world, young people can instantly go "hey, let's ditch the law, and become pirates". The marines need all the help they can get keeping this tide of pirates down, and fear of a pirate-vaporizin' thing like Pluton, would be a lot more effictive than the odd chance of meeting a 'bukai.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq
    Wasn't it Crane who asked, not ordered, him to stop?
    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen
    Tsuru: Is that your doing, Doflamingo?
    Be a good boy.
    Quit it.
    That doesn't sound respectful to me.

  10. #210
    Discovered Stowaway Ivotas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Daz
    That doesn't sound respectful to me.
    Well then it´s a matter if different opinion. To me it sounds respectul. Without the "be a good boy" it woud sound much more hostile then this one. But the "be a good boy" was somewhat of a dimplomatic euphemism.



  11. #211
    Division Commander Daz's Avatar
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    Well, if I were a grown man with a former 340 million bounty, I'd feel slightly offended at being treated like an unruly grandson...but as you say, different opinions.

  12. #212
    Banned Rank: Failed Mutineer Ms. Suave Debonair's Avatar
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    I feel that neither the WG or the Shichibukai are above one another in power due to what Mihawk says during chapter 234..

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihawk
    Mihawk: "Marine Headquarters" and "Seven Armed Seas"... two conflicting groups of equal power
    holding a "round table" is a meaningless thing.
    I feel that the WG and Shichibukai decided to allow a truce between the two because of the fact neither would win.

  13. #213
    The Sock Pirate Voodzik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Daz
    Well, if I were a grown man with a former 340 million bounty, I'd feel slightly offended at being treated like an unruly grandson...but as you say, different opinions.
    He's got a point, Ivotas.

    Frankly, I think the WG wouldn't have started the whole Suichibaki deal without having a way to take care of the pirates they recruit. It'd be too dangerous to come to someone you couldn't step on when you needed to and hand them the keys to your organization.

    Personally, I think the Five Elder Stars themselves could take down any character we've met so far. Just a thought...but that one with the sword looks really tough, and they've all got scars and etc, so they must have fought at one point or another. Who's to say they're not still hugely powerful?
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  14. #214
    Discovered Stowaway Ivotas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voodzik
    He's got a point, Ivotas.
    Yes, he´s got a point and that´s the same as mine. It´s the different opinions thing.

    For me it perfectly works that a granny adresses Doflamingo as a boy because that´s what he seems to be to her. It really is a matter of personal opinion to take that as hostile or not and this can´t be argued. I take it as euphemism but I can see why it can be taken as disrespectful by others. It really isn´t to be argued.



  15. #215

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Daz
    I imagine the loot from such an act would be quite substantial.
    Precisely, which is why it works out for the Shichibukai.

    Think about it, Crocodile walked off with the loot when he was first introduced, which belonged to the people of the town. However, seeing as how it was confiscated in the act of committing a civil service for the World Government by an employee of said World Government, it's legally his. On top of that, he can legally claim whatever the combined bounty of the crew was as he is not part of the Navy. He skims off part of the haul for the World Government and can throw the rest of it into a bank or a business that he openly owns without any interference from local officials.

    When they get a particularly big haul, most pirates have to worry about the safety of their loot. The Shichibukai do not and stealing from them is stealing from the World Government. They have legal recourse if their goods are stolen whereas all other pirates do not.

    It's the sweetest of sweetheart deals where the Shichibukai are concerned.

    An whole other point is that the Schichibukai lose their crew.
    In theory, that's the case.

    But judging by Donquixote's situation with Bellamy, I would say that is not the case in practice. And for all we know, Arlong was operating under orders from Jinbei.

    We know nothing of Bear, Mihawk, or Crocodile's former crews.

    Big deal you might say, but as we've seen, the most powerful pirates can gather hundreds of men, who're all members of a cult, where you're the one who gets worshipped.
    As compared to the Baroque Works I suppose, which numbers into the thousands, has an internal society solely dedicated to getting as close to the highest ranking member as possible, and generates massive amounts of legal revenue via the Bounty Hunter stations near Reverse Mountain to boot.

    But why'd he need to have the cover of being a Schichibukai, and the power of Pluton to pull it off, if he's tougher than anything the marines' got - which you said is the basis for the Schichibukais' existance?
    No, I'm saying that the Shichibukai have a reasonable shot of beating almost anything the Navy can throw at them under normal circumstances. It's not impossible for the Navy to beat them, it's just that the resources necessary would make it pyrrhic victory at best and would actively weaken the campaign against pirates elsewhere.

    It's not like every marine in the world can teleport to Marijoa, and again, you just said that the 'Bukai were tougher, or at least on par with everything the marine has.
    Well, again, Bear is sitting right there and he might not be so inclined to let Donquixote do whatever he wants.

    Not to mention the fact that the Naval Headquarters is simply crawling with high ranking Marines. Donquixote might stand a reasonable chance against anything the Navy might throw at him under normal circumstances, but that doesn't mean that he could beat them all at once. Fighting them at sea is a bit different than fighting them on their own home turf.

    He has to mentally activate the dehydration, otherwise he wouldn't be able to carry an object.
    And that comes down to reaction time. Where is your proof that Aokiji's reaction times supercede those of Crocodile?

    Again, I don't see why it's so hard to consider that Crocodile is at least a match for Aokiji if not superior to him outright. Just because Aokiji was introduced later in the series does not make him stronger.

    Is Foxy stronger than Mihawk?

    And freezing him solid should shut down his mental activity.
    That is entirely dependent on how a Logia power's brain works.

    It could also be that, like Blackbeard, Croc just earned enough of a bounty to prove himself 'bukai worthy, and then joined.
    And yet he was determined worthy at less than a third that of the other two confirmed former bounties. That's a good indication that the World Government considered him a great deal more threatening than either Bartholomew Bear or Donquixote Doflamingo.

    For the record, I'm picking Mihawk to have the highest former bounty, if only because it was have taken him longer to climb the very pinnacle of his art.

    so I don't see why seastone-nets shouldn't have a similar effect.
    The presence of seastone does not inhibit the function of Devil Fruit powers, this was definitively shown in Skypiea. I'm not going to repeat the whole argument when it was thoroughly hashed out in one of the recent chapter discussions.

    If Crocodile shifts to his elemental form quickly enough, he would be able to escape through the ground.

    The marines need all the help they can get keeping this tide of pirates down
    Which is a good sign that there are pirates beyond the capability of the Navy to deal with without the loss of resources hurting them elsewhere. Why shouldn't the Shichibukai be some of those very pirates?

    fear of a pirate-vaporizin' thing like Pluton, would be a lot more effictive than the odd chance of meeting a 'bukai.
    Actually, their chances of meeting one of the Shichibukai would be greater than the chances of them encountering Pluton, unless the Navy cranks out a whole lot of them.

    That doesn't sound respectful to me.
    Actually, it sounds more like a grandmother reprimanding a particuarly recalitrant little boy. A direct order might not have been so well recieved and I honestly don't think Doflamingo responds like that for anyone else. He agreed to stop for her, not because he was told to do so, but because he was asked.

    Donquixote's obviously not intimidated by these people, especially seeing as how he seemed fairly amused by Sengoku's snappish comments directed at him and Bear.
    Complicating things since 2009.

  16. #216
    The Alpha & The Omega - NeX -'s Avatar
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    WHAT IS THE GORUSEI that Clover says?

  17. #217
    Discovered Stowaway Ivotas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Daz
    An whole other point is that the Schichibukai lose their crew.
    Oh please, not that argument again. I´ll repeat what I always say when this comes up. It was never EVER said that the Shichibukai have to loser their crew. That is utter speculation that was never established anywhere.

    I´m not saying that it´s impossible, I´m just saying that it´s not a fact. The only sure fact we have about the Shichibukai is that they are "pirates acknowledged by the government". Whether or not that includes their crew is speculation up to this point.

    This "the Shichibukai have to lose their crew" is yet another one of those things thats scattered across the web as Daz Bones´ bounty or the rumour that if a person eats two Devil Fruits the ability of the second one replaces that of the first one.



  18. #218

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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilGamerX
    I'll be getting this issue. If you can't find it, tell me and I will scan when I get it.
    Yeh, I doubt I'll be able to complete it myself. So yeh.. once you get it, please scan it.

  19. #219
    johan strasni Majek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq
    Again, I don't see why it's so hard to consider that Crocodile is at least a match for Aokiji if not superior to him outright. Just because Aokiji was introduced later in the series does not make him stronger.
    And when will you realise you can't "win" thig argument. :huh:
    He spent fifteen years getting loaded | Fifteen years 'till his liver exploded | Now what's Bob gonna do now that he can't drink? |


  20. #220

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    Quote Originally Posted by Majek
    And when will you realise you can't "win" thig argument. :huh:
    When people start responding to it with points that are logically consistent with the story line thus far.

    Again, we have an Admiral whose ability is to freeze water and a Shichibukai whose ability is to dry up moisture. Why should the latter not be able to kill the first one?

    Answer this point: if Crocodile is not able to cause massive damage to the Navy by killing an Admiral, why was his bounty so much lower than the other observed bounties when it was cancelled? Why not continue to fight him as long as they presumably did with Bear and Doflamingo?
    Complicating things since 2009.

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