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Thread: Vivre Card: One Piece Visual Dictionary

  1. #2701

    Default Re: Vivre Card: One Piece Visual Dictionary

    I really don't have a dog in this fight, I was just trying to figure out why something so huge like One Piece can afford being so wacky when it comes to stuff some western fans would lose their shit over.

    Like, there's stuff in One Piece (and other manga) that Marvel couldn't and wouldn't ever ever even try. It would cause fucking riots in the fandom.

  2. #2702

    Default Re: Vivre Card: One Piece Visual Dictionary

    Quote Originally Posted by FatDogForMidTerms View Post
    I really don't have a dog in this fight, I was just trying to figure out why something so huge like One Piece can afford being so wacky when it comes to stuff some western fans would lose their shit over.

    Like, there's stuff in One Piece (and other manga) that Marvel couldn't and wouldn't ever ever even try. It would cause fucking riots in the fandom.
    Reminder that the original Whitebeard Pirates used a swatiska in their flags, which Oda had to change afterwards because of its western connotations.

    So One Piece is no stranger to that sorta thing. Oda will absolutely change his own art to avoid problematic stuff.

  3. #2703

    Default Re: Vivre Card: One Piece Visual Dictionary

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    Reminder that the original Whitebeard Pirates used a swatiska in their flags, which Oda had to change afterwards because of its western connotations.

    So One Piece is no stranger to that sorta thing.
    True. Good point!
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  4. #2704
    21st Century Schizoid Man Johnny B. Decent's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vivre Card: One Piece Visual Dictionary

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    Reminder that the original Whitebeard Pirates used a swatiska in their flags, which Oda had to change afterwards because of its western connotations.

    So One Piece is no stranger to that sorta thing.
    I think it was a Manji, no?

    But then the inverted tattoos some crew members like Marco have then would have been a Swastika.

  5. #2705

    Default Re: Vivre Card: One Piece Visual Dictionary

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny B. Decent View Post
    I think it was a Manji, no?

    But then the inverted tattoos some crew members like Marco have then would have been a Swastika.
    For the eastern world, there's a distinction between the manji and the swatiska. But the western world doesn't know that for the most part.

    If Oda changed that thing, it's because of western influence.

  6. #2706
    21st Century Schizoid Man Johnny B. Decent's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vivre Card: One Piece Visual Dictionary

    Yeah, the right-tilted one (which is what the Nazis stole) represents the Sun and the left-tilted one represents the Moon.

  7. #2707
    Discovered Stowaway Moriah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vivre Card: One Piece Visual Dictionary

    Here is some other info mainly Haki and Devil Fruit related:

    All Stars
    • All three can use Armament and Observation Haki.
    Yamato
    • Can use Armament and Observation Haki.
    Eustass Kid
    • Devil Fruit: Jiki Jiki no Mi (Actually named in Volume 99's SBS)
    • Can use all three types of Haki.
    Killer
    • Can use Armament and Observation Haki.
    Hawkins
    • Can use Armament and Observation Haki.
    Scratchmen Apoo
    • Devil Fruit: Oto Oto no Mi
    • Can use Armament and Observation Haki.
    X Drake
    • Can use Armament and Observation Haki.

  8. #2708
    "I wait for you, Luffy!" blackness662's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vivre Card: One Piece Visual Dictionary

    Quote Originally Posted by JulieYBM View Post
    Nobody is born any gender or 'sex'.
    That's your opinion, I accept it, but don't force on it others.
    And don't dwell on this topic too much, especially when its about a fictional character.

    From my point of view the situation is clear:
    Yamato has a goofy admiration for Oden, which is mixed with her defiance againt her father, but that's it.
    People see a lot more into this whole thing than it actually is.

    Back to the topic:
    These Vivre Cards were pretty good this time, we got a ton of info.
    Let's hope we receive more from the new SBS and OP magazine.
    Last edited by blackness662; September 1st, 2021 at 11:08 AM.

  9. #2709

    Default Re: Vivre Card: One Piece Visual Dictionary

    I will always find it endlessly funny how Oda by pure mistake created a character called Whitebeard who uses a swastika (but not really) as his logo.
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  10. #2710

    Default Re: Vivre Card: One Piece Visual Dictionary

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    Reminder that the original Whitebeard Pirates used a swatiska in their flags, which Oda had to change afterwards because of its western connotations.

    So One Piece is no stranger to that sorta thing. Oda will absolutely change his own art to avoid problematic stuff.
    IIRC, Oda's weekly note about that made it sound like the request came from above and he complied, but didn't sound very happy about it.

  11. #2711

    Default Re: Vivre Card: One Piece Visual Dictionary

    Quote Originally Posted by JulieYBM View Post
    Quote
    Yeah it's unfortunate, especially since OP has a pretty bad track record of portraying trans people, too.

    I feel like the frustrating part is that now that the story at least seems to be trying to be better (Kiku and Yamato are actual characters that don't behave like stereotypes), I feel like it'll suck worse if the intention truly is "oh just emulating Oden". Why bring the guy/girl part in the first place, then? Just say 'I want to be like Oden' and that's it.

    I'm hoping for the best, but with stuff like this Rebecca always comes to mind - who was set up to learn to stand up for herself, but then just ended up being an object to be rescued and only important as a proxy to her dad.

    You can just introduce Yamato as a rebellious daughter (which in itself could make a cool female character), not add any of the potential 'being a guy' baggage and now ofc the extra material doesn't help.

    I always hope for the best, but trends aren't very nice.

  12. #2712

    Default Re: Vivre Card: One Piece Visual Dictionary

    Quote Originally Posted by blackness662 View Post
    That's your opinion, I accept it, but don't force on it others.
    And don't dwell on this topic too much, especially on a fictional character.

    From my point of view the situation is clear:
    Yamato has a goofy admiration for Oden, which is mixed with her defiance againt her father, but that's it.
    People see a lot more into this whole thing than it actually is.

    Back to the topic:
    These Vivre Cards were pretty good this time, we got a ton of info.
    Let's hope we receive more from the new SBS and OP magazine.
    It's not an opinion. It's a fact. Nobody is born their gender, they're arbitrarily assigned one at birth by human beings who made up a classification system to group a few traits under.
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  13. #2713

    Default Re: Vivre Card: One Piece Visual Dictionary

    So many interesting things. The Onimaru 1, I love. Need more on Sasaki and Jack. Kaido and King were going to MF?????

  14. #2714

    Default Re: Vivre Card: One Piece Visual Dictionary

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    For the eastern world, there's a distinction between the manji and the swatiska. But the western world doesn't know that for the most part.

    If Oda changed that thing, it's because of western influence.
    Maybe someone remembered they used to be an axis power and decided it wasn't a great look

  15. #2715
    Discovered Stowaway Lord Gaimon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vivre Card: One Piece Visual Dictionary

    it's feels weird to me when people say one piece's depiction of trans people is dangerours or harmful because it's what made me open to the entire idea back when i was 13

  16. #2716

    Default Re: Vivre Card: One Piece Visual Dictionary

    Keep in mind the narrator box for Kiku said "her" in first appearance, and "him" in flashback.

    It was a slow reveal that *started* with surface appearances to not be confusing, then clarified later when you had context for things.

    The narrator, (and the vivre cards!) and presumably the advertising team, are biased towards first appearance and what's easier to show to the world at large.

    This week is Yamato's big first appearance to the world beyond the manga. Manga readers have had time to grasp the "him" of it, but *leading* with that would be... confusing. When you *start* with saying him, that leads to questions of "Is this a devil fruit? A disguise? a Ivonokov thing?" so saying biological sex starting out makes sense to clear out those questions instantly, and then the story *immediately* clarifies the "son" part, from Yamato's own mouth.

    And generally fans (and those that buy the sexy statues) are going to think of Yamato as her because that's how he looks, and it puts them at ease to know the parts are female, so they don't need to feel weird about thinking he looks nice when they get the merch or buy doujins or whatever..

    Hell, manga readers have had over a year to figure this out and are still arguing about it.

    Also keep in mind that vivre cards aren't perfect and have made multiple mistakes before, and that some characters get more than one card when something about their situation changes. Should Yamato become a strawhat, he'll certainly need another card later, and that one might roll a bit differently.


    Hey, remember when the vivre cards said that character's name was Shilliew, because that's how it first appeared, and then like two weeks later in the actual manga Oda corrected it to Shiryu?
    Last edited by Robby; September 1st, 2021 at 12:16 PM.
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  17. #2717

    Default Re: Vivre Card: One Piece Visual Dictionary

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Gaimon View Post
    it's feels weird to me when people say one piece's depiction of trans people is dangerours or harmful because it's what made me open to the entire idea back when i was 13
    When the majority of them are represente by ugly cross-dressed man with exaggerate masculine facial features and some with a gap of being pervs (like the ones that took Sanji to Sabody) yes, the representation is not quite right.
    Bon-chan and Iva-chan are the ones that Oda has done that somehow mostly avoid fitting in the above.

  18. #2718

    Default Re: Vivre Card: One Piece Visual Dictionary

    Quote Originally Posted by JulieYBM View Post
    It's not an opinion. It's a fact. Nobody is born their gender, they're arbitrarily assigned one at birth by human beings who made up a classification system to group a few traits under.
    Its a fact on your own little buble, call ot twitter, your local echo chamber or whatever. Dont force your twisted narrative on others.

  19. #2719
    Discovered Stowaway Moriah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vivre Card: One Piece Visual Dictionary

    Go over the pictures posted of the packs I noticed that Yamato's Devil Fruit section is listed as "???", even thought I could have sworn her DF was named in the chapter that revealed it. It also interesting that the name of King's race (Lunarian) makes it onto his card, despite being revealed last chapter, but Yamato's DF section doesn't give a name to it, despite that chapter being released way before the name of the pack containing her card was revealed.

  20. #2720
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vivre Card: One Piece Visual Dictionary

    Quote Originally Posted by JulieYBM View Post
    'Biological Sex' as a classification system is extremely poorly constructed and decades old. Sex is made up of more than just 'penis' or 'vagina'. It accounts for gonads, hormones, secondary sex characteristics and genitals. When babies are born their genders are assigned merely based on what the doctor thinks their genitals look like. The video I linked to goes into better detail on the subject (and also lists a bevy of scientific sources) so I'll refrain from just copying everything they say there. I just want to point out that the idea of people being 'born' one way or the other is just...not even full measured? Sex is fake.

    (As an aside, I just take big issue with being called a 'biological male' just because I was born with a cock I don't even want. Fuck that shit, I'm a biological female.)


    I thought sex was classified based on your chromosomes. You know xy, xx. Not just gentials.

    Also just cuz something is very old doesn't mean its wrong.
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