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Thread: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

  1. #81

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by SomebodyUDon'tKnow View Post
    Wait, Huschel, why did you change your vote? Do you think a pressure vote is more important than a vote of suspicion? Assuming that vote on Kitsune is genuine as well.
    I'm unsure why you keep questioning my votes. I believe both times my reasons were pretty obvious reasons but feel free to ask why I voted not if I voted.

    A (single) pressure vote is just a tool to express dissatisfaction. In KI's case he hadn't shown up yet so lynching him seemed liked a valid option should he have never shown at all.
    A vote of suspicion is way more important because that is one I actually believe in. And other players can therefore use it to scrutinize me as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinobu Mahara View Post
    Not sure if i fully understand both sides of hypoclaiming. Its both beneficial for town and mafia.
    And without it, what do we fall back on?
    Personally I would prefer to let it rest at this point. Hypoclaiming is not the way to go in my opinion and I believe a couple people don't totally understand how I meant to employ it. If people want to talk about the hypo strategy more then it should be about the fact that I brought it up and why. Not whether we use it or not.

    Also, after reading back in detail i realized how to answer the question.
    If i was mafia, id prime as many people as possible, and then later game just be like “burn baby burn”.
    Would that be considered conservative, or high risk high reward? Would that be considered conservative, or high risk high reward?
    Going for the win as soon as possible would be high risk, high reward. A successful firefightering could screw you but you might just win on the spot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitsune Inferno View Post
    Huschel: You've probably taken the most visible stance amongst the forest. Do you worry this might make you a target for burnering?
    It might. But it's not like people agree with me a lot or take in what I write (see below). Regardless, someone will get targeted and there is only one role that should particularly worry about getting cut down. And no, that is not me.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpaceCowboy View Post
    We know the set-up so a lynch wouldn't really tell us any info we don't know.
    Chances are we hit a tree. If we happen to target the Firefighter, he will have to claim on D1. While it doesn't put his life in jeopardy, it does make the job easier for the mafia, especially because that pretty much means he will defend himself during N1.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel, post #59
    The firefighter has to target 'one other player'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel, post #62
    According to the rules, the firefighter can't target themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel, post #68
    And I'm still not sure if everybody knows that the firefighter cannot target themselves.
    Why are you not reading my posts?

    Unvote
    Just something fun I made during the latest Survivor playing as Monji:
    Spoiler:


  2. #82
    The Hermit Shinobu Mahara's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    If you prefer to not go about that strategy for now, thats cool.
    I’m understand why you brought it up, and what benefits it would have for both parties.
    Was more saying that im not sure what direction to take in the meantime, if we all decide to take that path.

    2nd part: but wouldnt it be an more risky delaying the kills for as long as possible, but solidifying the fact that all trees are doused? But in turn making a longer game and higher stakes of mafia being killed off by the town in the meantime.
    Logically, 2 people, albeit making it a little harder, a fast win may not necessarily be easy depending on whether or not both mafia can communicate. However, i believe in a setup like this; that its probably more than likely not the case.

    But you tell if that point of view is wrong..

  3. #83

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    @Huschel: You're the only person who's voted, so I'm free to look at them and ask questions. Would you still be willing to pursue a Shinobu lynch?

    @Jabberwok: So if we were to lynch one of those three options (Shinobu, Shuhan and Space), you think we'd have at least a 1/3 chance of hitting a Mafia? Do you think this is what we should do?

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Also, to make sure I understand it correctly: Firefighter is the same as a Doctor, right?

  4. #84

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

    Not Voting (9): SUDK, SpaceCowboy, Jabberwok, Shuhan, Shinobu Mahara, Kitsune Inferno, Wooden_Giraffe, le crystal, Huschel

    With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to extend the day.

    Day Extension (3): Huschel, Kitsune Inferno, SUDK

    A little over 11 hours remain.

    One Pace - The One Piece anime without the filler and padding.
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  5. #85

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by SomebodyUDon'tKnow View Post
    @Huschel: You're the only person who's voted, so I'm free to look at them and ask questions. Would you still be willing to pursue a Shinobu lynch?
    Sorry, that was worded improperly. You should most definitely question my votes. But please don't question if my votes are genuine. I assure you they have been and will be.

    As for Shinobu, you tell me. Why should I pursue a Shinobu lynch over other people? Honestly, I already have too many people I'm considering. Shinobu is not that high on the list anymore.

    Also, to make sure I understand it correctly: Firefighter is the same as a Doctor, right?
    A doctor stops a kill. A firefighter stops somebody getting marked for a kill. They are different roles.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    To clarify. Once somebody has been doused in gasoline by an arsonist, there is nothing the firefighter can do about it. They have to prevent the first step which is the dousing.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    There is 11 hours left and I get the impression that most people are advocating for a lynch today. I really hope we can make the day extension happen. If we can't do that we may as well self-immolate.
    Just something fun I made during the latest Survivor playing as Monji:
    Spoiler:


  6. #86
    The Hermit Shinobu Mahara's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    Vote: Day Extension
    Just for you huschel, do with it what you can.
    Not sure how useful 1 vote will be but more discussion i guess means more scum-hunting.

    So a firefighter can stop a target being marked, but cant stop an already doused player.
    So N1 would result in two confirmed doused players, and a more than likely lynch D2.
    If the firefighter has not put in their action before the mafia target a player, we could save a potential tree.
    That part also falls down to luck considering silence among night phase.
    Which by N2 would mean we either start burning, or we have more than comfortable levels of doused players.

  7. #87

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    Okay, you just made me realize that I've been using my words badly. Whenever I said dousing above I meant 'dousing with gasoline' so I was referring to the arsonists priming a target for a later kill. I did not mean the firefighter dousing somebody with water. I apologize if my posts above are confusing, I hope you can see what I meant to say. I think just replacing 'dousing' with 'priming' should do it.

    Anyway, thanks for that vote Shinobu. We need one more for an extension.

    @ Shinobu: I don't quite follow your thought process about 'two confirmed doused players'. Nobody is doused right now and the firefighter can only protect one player per night. Furthermore, the prevention only works for that particular night phase.

    @Shuhan:

    1) Do you think it is a Forest player's duty to appear not scummy?

    2)
    Quote Originally Posted by Shuhan
    Since there is no investigation and only a firefighter, the vote is our only real weapon against those dastards. I understand your skepticism, but we need to keep our numbers high. At this point so early in the game, it's hard to tell what to do. We need more people to post.
    Does this not contradict your no lynch stance? Once again, I don't understand what you expect to be different on D2.

    @SpaceCowboy:

    I'm still trying to understand if the tree stump state is beneficial or negative. I'm partially concerned that there might be too many "noise"/ideas spread around, but at least it prevents lack of conversation.
    You seem to be questioning the usefulness of lynched trees still being able to talk. Can you elaborate on your thoughts here?

    @crys, KI, Wooden: I hope you manage to give more input
    Just something fun I made during the latest Survivor playing as Monji:
    Spoiler:


  8. #88

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    @Huschel: Care to share your suspects, then?

    Full disclosure, I don't really have much in the way of suspects, so my vote would go to whatever wagon I see appear at the current time, unless something sticks out to me.
    That is, if we get any votes, which is unlikely at this point.

  9. #89

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    Vote: Time Extend

    I'd really like a lynch today if possible but 3 hours seems too short to achieve one from scratch.

    If you get dunked on in the dream, you get dunked on in real life

  10. #90

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by SomebodyUDon'tKnow View Post
    @Huschel: Care to share your suspects, then?

    Full disclosure, I don't really have much in the way of suspects, so my vote would go to whatever wagon I see appear at the current time, unless something sticks out to me.
    That is, if we get any votes, which is unlikely at this point.
    They might be the obvious ones but right now it's Shuhan and SpaceCowboy. I'm waiting for them to come back.
    Just something fun I made during the latest Survivor playing as Monji:
    Spoiler:


  11. #91
    Schrödinger's Giraffe Wooden_Giraffe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    Sorry for vanishing yesterday. I’ll be able to read up on everything and post more after work. I think we got enough but just in case.

    [b]Vote: Day Extend

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Ugggh, I’m too used to zetaboards mechanics.

    Vote: Day Extend

  12. #92

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    Vote: Time extention

    I think the majority is reached with Jabber's vote, but I'll vote just for precaution

    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post

    (1) Personally I would prefer to let it rest at this point. Hypoclaiming is not the way to go in my opinion and I believe a couple people don't totally understand how I meant to employ it. If people want to talk about the hypo strategy more then it should be about the fact that I brought it up and why. Not whether we use it or not.


    (2) Why are you not reading my posts?
    (1) - Ok, so how exactly do you meant to employ it? I've already explained why I think it makes no sense to use that strategy when the role that's supposed to be hypoed isn't an investigatory one.

    (2) - I did.
    I just didn't saw the phrase in "" on #59 on the wiki page and assumed you were lying about it to question someone. Decided to see how it went.
    Now after this post I came back to it and realized that it was actually on the role description on the bottom of the page.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post
    @SpaceCowboy:

    You seem to be questioning the usefulness of lynched trees still being able to talk. Can you elaborate on your thoughts here?
    That depends on the way people look at "I was lynched".
    If they understand that the threat of getting lynched is a way for people to keep the conversation flowing and that even after getting lynched they still will be able to give their input, it's a fine "ability".

    If people take it personally, like what happened in many games in the past and get salty or butthurt about it, that will only obstruct their view of the game and they will funnel their analyzes, input and accusations on the guys that led their bandwagon.
    This is what concerns me. People having tunnel vision on someone and directing the conversation against them, and ignoring other possible (and most likely/obvious) suspects. I fear this maycause a lot of distraction, but this problem is not on the rule/ablity, but on the player.

    The player needs to understand that even if he is lynched, he can still win the game. Getting lynched is no "game over", as long as your party wins in the end, you win as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwok View Post

    Typically I'd estimate we'd have one arsonist advocating for lynch and the other against. However, given the timeline of when we received our PMs and when the game began, I think it's a reasonable assumption that the scum haven't identified each other yet. Without established coordination and with fewer numbers, they have a lot more risk than usual involved with a lynch. I'd expect at least one, if not both scum, to be pushing back against a lynch.
    Do you feel like there's a chance that one of the scum is laying low on purpose due to not having contact with his partner?


    ------------------------

    @Shinobu: Who do you think has taken a stronger stance on what the Forest should do today?

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Vote: Day Extension

    Not sure the mod will be pesky about the wording.

  13. #93

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwok View Post
    Whoever seems least helpful or seems to have the poorest grasp of the rules, unless anyone should seem particularly suspicious (no one has really caught my eye yet). Particularly on this first day, it's basically a random guess.


    Typically I'd estimate we'd have one arsonist advocating for lynch and the other against. However, given the timeline of when we received our PMs and when the game began, I think it's a reasonable assumption that the scum haven't identified each other yet. Without established coordination and with fewer numbers, they have a lot more risk than usual involved with a lynch. I'd expect at least one, if not both scum, to be pushing back against a lynch.
    Hmm. I dont know if I'd agree with that. While I do find the no lynch folks suspicious, I do feel like the arsonists will want to appear as pro-forest as possible and advocate for lynching even if it's less convenient for their wincon. I know it's meta but I do feel it's more probable the arsonists could be independently advocating a lynch in a bid to appear town.

    I unfortunately dont have any suspects at present.

    Also let me state that hypofighting is a terrible idea.

  14. #94

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by SpaceCowboy View Post
    (1) - Ok, so how exactly do you meant to employ it? I've already explained why I think it makes no sense to use that strategy when the role that's supposed to be hypoed isn't an investigatory one.
    I will spoiler tag my answer because I am not interested in derailing us too much with this anymore.

    Spoiler:
    1) Every day each player gives a target they protected the previous night.
    2) Eventually the arsonists ignite their targets. If the firefighter is not dead, nothing happens. If the firefighter is among the victims...
    3) We check if as many people have died as would be expected (one per night - 1). If fewer people died we know that the firefighter managed to protect somebody. We have their public reports and can see who might be a townie.

    I thought of using this in the first place because as opposed to hypo copping, this strategy does in no way endanger the firefighter. The more I thought about it though the more issues I realized myself and you guys have also brought a couple up. For example, this would potentially let the arsonists know that their dousing target had not been protected. Or they could even get cute and not douse anybody at all to maybe clear themselves. In the end, there's little payoff and various risks.

    The end


    Quote Originally Posted by SpaceCowboy
    (2) - I did.
    I just didn't saw the phrase in "" on #59 on the wiki page and assumed you were lying about it to question someone. Decided to see how it went.
    Now after this post I came back to it and realized that it was actually on the role description on the bottom of the page.
    I don't quite buy that. Who would I be questioning? The firefighter? And #68 was clearly addressed to everybody.

    The player needs to understand that even if he is lynched, he can still win the game. Getting lynched is no "game over", as long as your party wins in the end, you win as well.
    True.
    Just something fun I made during the latest Survivor playing as Monji:
    Spoiler:


  15. #95

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by SpaceCowboy View Post
    Do you feel like there's a chance that one of the scum is laying low on purpose due to not having contact with his partner?
    It's certainly possible. Avoiding too many strong statements and generally creating inactivity (particularly without explicitly endorsing it) is probably the most cautious tactic when you don't know your scumbuddy yet. Let's keep an eye out for that.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    To address your point about lynched players, Space, I definitely agree. Having had my fair share of salt myself, I think it's particularly important in this game that things don't get too personal. Pretty much all of our lynches will be guesswork unless we get lucky late in the game, which means we're even more likely to mislynch several innocents. Since everyone can still help out, it's especially important to avoid making or taking things personal.

    It'd also be nice to avoid comments like, "If he didn't want to get lynched, he shouldn't have acted so scummy!" Those are useless statements that avoid blame and don't patch things up at all. If you're instrumental in someone's mislynch, be mature and apologize so we can keep trying to win this thing.

    If you get dunked on in the dream, you get dunked on in real life

  16. #96

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post
    I don't quite buy that. Who would I be questioning? The firefighter? And #68 was clearly addressed to everybody.
    Shinobu and SUDK since they were the ones you were adressing at that moment and the ones talking to you about the role of the firefighter.
    When I read it I assumed you had either made a mistake or were trying to pull something of them.
    When you quoted me in particular I rechecked the wiki and saw that you had drawn that conclusion from "example Role PM's" section. I had only checked the "Notes" section and I got the impression that he could target anyone.

    -------------------------

    @Woody and Le Crystal: You have both stated that you would be fine with a lynch today, but haven't stated how we should achieve it.
    Do you think anyone in particular deserves to be lynched at this point of the game? If not, what criteria do you purpose to pick the unlucky one?

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinobu Mahara View Post
    So a firefighter can stop a target being marked, but cant stop an already doused player.
    So N1 would result in two confirmed doused players, and a more than likely lynch D2.
    If the firefighter has not put in their action before the mafia target a player, we could save a potential tree.
    That part also falls down to luck considering silence among night phase.
    Which by N2 would mean we either start burning, or we have more than comfortable levels of doused players.
    Even though there are 2 arsonists, they can only douse/bobby trap one person per night.

  17. #97

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    The day has been extended. You have a little over 24 hours left, now.

    One Pace - The One Piece anime without the filler and padding.
    AP Discord

  18. #98

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    >Day extended
    >No new discussion in 3-4 hours

    Great use of time guys

    Vote Lynch: Shinobu

    You seem to have the worst grasp of the parameters of this game and explaining everything is a distraction from more meaningful discussion. You're also in the no-lynch-today group, which I see as some reason for suspicion.

    If you get dunked on in the dream, you get dunked on in real life

  19. #99

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    Well, I guess that answers my question to Jab that he never answered. I'm up for voting for Shinobu if no one pops out at me.

    I agree with Huschel that Space "assuming [you] were lying" isn't right.

    Activity's gonna dip for me from now until tomorrow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwok
    >Day extended
    >No new discussion in 3-4 hours

    Great use of time guys
    My excuse was it being 6am.

  20. #100

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by SomebodyUDon'tKnow View Post
    Well, I guess that answers my question to Jab that he never answered. I'm up for voting for Shinobu if no one pops out at me.
    Sorry about that, I'd answered in my head but not in here xD Shuhan and Shinobu stand out more for this than Space, who struck me as more instinctually opposed to a Day 1 lynch before becoming more neutral after thinking about the set-up.

    If you get dunked on in the dream, you get dunked on in real life

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