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Thread: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

  1. #61
    The Hermit Shinobu Mahara's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post
    @Shinobu: You really need to familiarize yourself with the setup before leading people in unnecessary directions. Here's an incentive:

    Vote Lynch: Shinobu Mahara

    I'll ask you the same question I gave Wooden: Do you think the arsonists would try to go for the win as soon as possible or would they try to be more conservative?@Jabberwok:The firefighter has to target 'one other player'.

    @lecrystal and SUDK: Are you familiar with the hypo cop strategy? Or hypo firefighter in our case. You don't need to be because here is the crux of it:

    Tell me why we should or shouldn't deploy this strategy.

    @Shuhan: Do you think it is a Forest player's duty to appear not scummy?
    I believe that the arsonists will kill off first at random unless of course someone does seem like a genuine threat. Really what i think doesnt change what might happen. As much as I think they would be more conservative, they could very well change their play style just to throw the game into chaos.
    All I can say is your vote seems hella premature, and im not surprised. keep in mind I was having internet struggles at the time, however you're probably right in saying i should familiarize myself with it before i start the "unnessary directions".
    By now you surely realize this is a common theme amongst how I play.. just let it go, dude/ ma'am.

    No point really defending myself against your vote considering its "incentive". Regardless of whats been said I still dont advocate for a D1 lynch.
    The chances are that the firefighter has/will save themselves for now, and mafia may very well get lucky on which one they hit. Saving not just 1 tree, but 2.
    You guys seem to think just because there are limited players (9) that D1 lynch is a good thing. But through all the explanations I just dont see it.

    On another note, there is a possibility that the firefighter may not be able to save themself, and only act like a doctor/healer role.
    What do others think about this possibility, and in such a case, what might people suggest for that person? Claiming in that event would not be enough. It would be a confirmed kill at that point?
    They may not necessarily be safe at night phase, we'd save someone, but the future safety of the trees would be in jeopardy.
    Last edited by Shinobu Mahara; March 15th, 2018 at 12:02 AM.
    Man, it is great to be back home..

  2. #62

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinobu Mahara View Post
    I believe that the arsonists will kill off first at random unless of course someone does seem like a genuine threat. Really what i think doesnt change what might happen. As much as I think they would be more conservative, they could very well change their play style just to throw the game into chaos.
    All I can say is your vote seems hella premature, and im not surprised. keep in mind I was having internet struggles at the time, however you're probably right in saying i should familiarize myself with it before i start the "unnessary directions".
    By now you surely realize this is a common theme amongst how I play.. just let it go, dude/ ma'am.
    Whether it's common or not isn't particularly relevant. If I feel like it's scummy behaviour I'm going to call it out. What was your alignment again last game?

    No point really defending myself against your vote considering its "incentive". Regardless of whats been said I still dont advocate for a D1 lynch.
    The chances are that the firefighter has/will save themselves for now, and mafia may very well get lucky on which one they hit. Saving not just 1 tree, but 2.
    You guys seem to think just because there are limited players (9) that D1 lynch is a good thing. But through all the explanations I just dont see it.
    Can you elaborate on this, please?

    On another note, there is a possibility that the firefighter may not be able to save themself, and only act like a doctor/healer role.
    What do others think about this possibility, and in such a case, what might people suggest for that person? Claiming in that event would not be enough. It would be a confirmed kill at that point?
    They may not necessarily be safe at night phase, we'd save someone, but the future safety of the trees would be in jeopardy.
    According to the rules, the firefighter can't target themselves. I mentioned that above but granted the formatting was a little messed up.

    Of course, claiming must not happen prematurely. But keep in mind that it takes the arsonists two nights to kill a specific person (unless they had already been doused beforehand) so the firefighter might not even die immediately. Still, caution is obviously advised.
    Just something fun I made during the latest Survivor playing as Monji:
    Spoiler:


  3. #63

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinobu Mahara View Post
    I believe that the arsonists will kill off first at random unless of course someone does seem like a genuine threat. Really what i think doesnt change what might happen. As much as I think they would be more conservative, they could very well change their play style just to throw the game into chaos.
    All I can say is your vote seems hella premature, and im not surprised. keep in mind I was having internet struggles at the time, however you're probably right in saying i should familiarize myself with it before i start the "unnessary directions".
    By now you surely realize this is a common theme amongst how I play.. just let it go, dude/ ma'am.

    No point really defending myself against your vote considering its "incentive". Regardless of whats been said I still dont advocate for a D1 lynch.
    The chances are that the firefighter has/will save themselves for now, and mafia may very well get lucky on which one they hit. Saving not just 1 tree, but 2.
    You guys seem to think just because there are limited players (9) that D1 lynch is a good thing. But through all the explanations I just dont see it.

    On another note, there is a possibility that the firefighter may not be able to save themself, and only act like a doctor/healer role.
    What do others think about this possibility, and in such a case, what might people suggest for that person? Claiming in that event would not be enough. It would be a confirmed kill at that point?
    They may not necessarily be safe at night phase, we'd save someone, but the future safety of the trees would be in jeopardy.
    I know your connection is a bit spotty, and that may have been a contributor to this, but please do not edit your posts. Usually, one instance of this would result in a modkill, but I'm going to be a little lenient here because of both the small player size we have in this game, and because of the connection issues you've been having.

    To everybody else, I received confirmation that the edit was just adding the final paragraph, with no other edits, so it's no different from posting a new post and it merging. In future cases where you want to clarify something in your post, you must do so in a new post.

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  4. #64

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post
    @lecrystal and SUDK: Are you familiar with the hypo cop strategy? Or hypo firefighter in our case. You don't need to be because here is the crux of it:

    Tell me why we should or shouldn't deploy this strategy.
    What would be the point of employing it? Upon the firefighter's death, we'd find out who is not currently primed. Knowing if someone is or isn't doused doesn't help much, as nothing can be done about priming once it's happened. It would help us see who won't die during the next ignition-phase, which I can't see being helpful. I feel like it would be more risky for the firefighter than beneficial to us, considering they're our only line of defense against the mafia. I think we should not employ the strategy.
    I have heard of the strategy, though, though I can't remember a situation where it's happened off the top of my head.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    @Galaxy: I don't agree with it, but I understand your reasons for not modkilling Shinobu.

    @Huschel: Was that vote on Shinobu genuine? You play it off in the post, but you seem genuinely concerned that he was leading us in a certain direction wrongfully.

  5. #65

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post
    <br>
    @lecrystal and SUDK: Are you familiar with the hypo cop strategy? Or hypo firefighter in our case. You don't need to be because here is the crux of it:<br>
    <br>
    Tell me why we should or shouldn't deploy this strategy.<br>
    <br>Yes I am, it doesn't seem like much harm for everyone (excluding tree stumps) to state their 'firefighter report' in their first post of the day. If our firefighter unfortunately dies we at least can have useful info he collected to work with via the reports he sent in every day, and info you don't have to doubt about too much is always good.<br><br>I could see this giving the arsonists (and us) another mind game to play though: eg me the plain ol tree send a random cop report saying 'SUDK is an arsonist'. If I am among the ignited a few days later, questions will definitely arise like 'is SUDK one of the arsonists and he and his buddy thought I am the firefighter, but in truth I just got lucky and now its a sizeable amount of proof that he's an arsonist' or 'are the arsonists just trying to frame SUDK?'<br><br>I'll be back later to read and analyse the other posts better, in a bit of a rush right now.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    that formatting ;-;

    ↑Biological Weaopn of Doom and Destruction

  6. #66
    The Hermit Shinobu Mahara's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post
    Whether it's common or not isn't particularly relevant. If I feel like it's scummy behaviour I'm going to call it out. What was your alignment again last game?

    By all means call me out for scummy behaviour, but as a member of mere tree people I am not going to bother defending/pleading my case. There'd be no point, but i will try my best to read up on this stuff so you can go forward into a more pressing issue.
    Alignment last game doesnt really give much for the current game, albeit aligned mafia at the time (hehe).

    Can you elaborate on this, please?

    On the bold part? Cause if thats the case i was talking about the firefighter possibly (at the time) could have saved themself at the same time as being targeted by mafia, much like a bulletproof/side effect of doctor.
    If its not that you're looking for, then im not sure.

    Of course, claiming must not happen prematurely. But keep in mind that it takes the arsonists two nights to kill a specific person (unless they had already been doused beforehand) so the firefighter might not even die immediately. Still, caution is obviously advised.
    Noted. Will have read through extensively by next post.

    @Galaxy, won't happen again boss. By all means if i do it in a future game, make sure you kill me for doing so. I need to learn from my mistakes.
    Man, it is great to be back home..

  7. #67

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    @BananaStan I'm hesitant to say too much since I don't want to influence the arsonists towards what I consider the optimal route. Suffice to say that both strategies have significant risks and it will probably depend on how well we're doing as a forest.

    If you get dunked on in the dream, you get dunked on in real life

  8. #68

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by SomebodyUDon'tKnow View Post
    What would be the point of employing it? Upon the firefighter's death, we'd find out who is not currently primed. Knowing if someone is or isn't doused doesn't help much, as nothing can be done about priming once it's happened. It would help us see who won't die during the next ignition-phase, which I can't see being helpful. I feel like it would be more risky for the firefighter than beneficial to us, considering they're our only line of defense against the mafia. I think we should not employ the strategy.
    I have heard of the strategy, though, though I can't remember a situation where it's happened off the top of my head.
    The idea was that once the firefighter dies and assuming that not as many people died at once as would be expected, we would know that the firefighter had protected someone and we could potentially clear a townie. I don't see any danger for the firefighter themselves but there's still a couple downsides to this. Thanks for indulging me though.

    @Huschel: Was that vote on Shinobu genuine? You play it off in the post, but you seem genuinely concerned that he was leading us in a certain direction wrongfully.
    It was genuine.

    Quote Originally Posted by le crystal View Post
    <br>Yes I am, it doesn't seem like much harm for everyone (excluding tree stumps) to state their 'firefighter report' in their first post of the day. If our firefighter unfortunately dies we at least can have useful info he collected to work with via the reports he sent in every day, and info you don't have to doubt about too much is always good.<br><br>I could see this giving the arsonists (and us) another mind game to play though: eg me the plain ol tree send a random cop report saying 'SUDK is an arsonist'. If I am among the ignited a few days later, questions will definitely arise like 'is SUDK one of the arsonists and he and his buddy thought I am the firefighter, but in truth I just got lucky and now its a sizeable amount of proof that he's an arsonist' or 'are the arsonists just trying to frame SUDK?'<br><br>I'll be back later to read and analyse the other posts better, in a bit of a rush right now.
    I feel like you blended some different scenarios together? Why would anybody be claiming cop reports? Anyway, the hypo strategy had some small weak points when I thought of it and by now I have realized even bigger flaws with it. Not worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinobu Mahara View Post
    By all means call me out for scummy behaviour, but as a member of mere tree people I am not going to bother defending/pleading my case. There'd be no point, but i will try my best to read up on this stuff so you can go forward into a more pressing issue.
    Alignment last game doesnt really give much for the current game, albeit aligned mafia at the time (hehe).
    My point was that you behaved similarly last game and in that one you were mafia. I believe some people let you get away with little things because they thought it was just you being you and I don't want to do that in this game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinobu
    On the bold part? Cause if thats the case i was talking about the firefighter possibly (at the time) could have saved themself at the same time as being targeted by mafia, much like a bulletproof/side effect of doctor.
    If its not that you're looking for, then im not sure.
    So the mafia getting lucky means dousing a person who is not being protected? That seems rather likely, unfortunately.

    And I'm still not sure if everybody knows that the firefighter cannot target themselves.

    Unvote. Vote Lynch: Kitsune Inferno
    Vote: Day Extend

    Why KI and not Space? No reason.
    Just something fun I made during the latest Survivor playing as Monji:
    Spoiler:


  9. #69

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    @Huschel: Why are you so insistent on the Fire fighter revealing himself?
    You made that suggestion on your first post of the Day, and now you are suggesting the Hypo scenario, which is frankly useless because the role of the firefighter is not investigatory. If anything, it allows the mafia to know if one of their Night targets for dousing is safe. It tells the town nothing.

    @Jabber & Wooden: Assuming Kitsune will still show up, eventually, how do you decide who should be lynched?

    @Le Crystal:
    Regarding post #65, it won't really work like that since the Fire fighter doesn't know with certainty who is a tree or an Arsonist.

    With this being said, I'm still trying to understand the reason why people want a lynch today.
    I understand that the fact that there won't be any deaths during the Night makes people want a lynch to start cutting some numbers, but I would rather postpone a potential lynch to D2 quite honestly, even if it is for the chance of lynching a doused player.

    I'm still trying to understand if the tree stump state is beneficial or negative. I'm partially concerned that there might be too many "noise"/ideas spread around, but at least it prevents lack of conversation.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post

    Vote: Day Extend

    Why? 16 chars of

  10. #70

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    I'm mobile so this is gonna be short.

    Space, stop putting words in my mouth, please. I brought up the hypo ff because there is literally 0 risk for that role. Am I wrong? There is other issues with the strategy and I have acknowledged as much.

    Why not extend the day? It had been 24 hours with two players missing.
    Just something fun I made during the latest Survivor playing as Monji:
    Spoiler:


  11. #71
    The Mad Moiselle BellisarioFaith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

    Kitsune Inferno (1):
    Huschel

    Not Voting (8): SUDK, SpaceCowboy, Jabberwok, Shuhan, Shinobu Mahara, Kitsune Inferno, Wooden_Giraffe, le crystal

    About 26 hours remain.

    Hidden:

  12. #72

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    The entire hypo strategy revolves around someone that can have a correct info on someone's allignment and to enable that person to report their findings with reduced risk.
    In this case, for us as forest, it doesn't give us any conclusive info. If anything, it warns the mafia that someone might have screwed them out of one or two kills and allows them to rethink their strategy and approach to the game.

    Not even 24 hours have passed. I personally just had a busy time and couldn't access a computer till now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post

    Shuhan, when if ever do you think the Firefighter should reveal themselves?
    Yeah, I might have misinterpreted this one. It was just a question to keep the conversation flowing.

  13. #73

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    Hey guys sorry for the late arrival. Im here just busy as fuck today. I will be around later this afternoon or some time tomorrow.

    Forgive me! And dont lynch me!

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    I will be much more available tomorrow so Id also like to

    Vote: Day Extend

  14. #74
    *Angry Catra noises* Shuhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    I am a work comp tonight so I should be able to post tonight more. Will be back.

  15. #75

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    Wait, Huschel, why did you change your vote? Do you think a pressure vote is more important than a vote of suspicion? Assuming that vote on Kitsune is genuine as well.

    I'll agree to a day extend if it helps anyone. No skin off my nose.
    Vote: Day Extend

    @Space: I'm all for lynching today because it can push discussion forward quicker, and discussion is all we've got. How do you think a no lynch today would help the town?

    @Shuhan: I'll extend that question to you, too, because as I recall you had that view as well?

  16. #76

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by SomebodyUDon'tKnow View Post
    @Space: I'm all for lynching today because it can push discussion forward quicker, and discussion is all we've got. How do you think a no lynch today would help the town?
    We know the set-up so a lynch wouldn't really tell us any info we don't know.
    Chances are we hit a tree. If we happen to target the Firefighter, he will have to claim on D1. While it doesn't put his life in jeopardy, it does make the job easier for the mafia, especially because that pretty much means he will defend himself during N1.
    Also, if we only lynch on D2, we might lynch the person the mafia has doused.

    On the other hand, I can understand that in a game with no silly roles and open setup the only way to push forward the conversation is by acting and that involved votes and lynches.
    Also, if we lynch someone today, we do increase the chances of the firefighter protecting someone doused.

    Let me consider this for a bit.

  17. #77
    The Hermit Shinobu Mahara's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    Okie, up to date and ready to not be hounded for confusion.
    As far as i can understand thus far:
    Me and Space advocate for a no lynch, although space seems like he’d consider a lynch.
    Wooden, huschel, jabberwok and SUDK are all okay with a lynch yoday (good for them).

    Not sure if i fully understand both sides of hypoclaiming. Its both beneficial for town and mafia.
    And without it, what do we fall back on?

    Also, after reading back in detail i realized how to answer the question.
    If i was mafia, id prime as many people as possible, and then later game just be like “burn baby burn”.
    Would that be considered conservative, or high risk high reward?

  18. #78

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    Okay, read through everything. Sorry for the late arrival.

    I agree that we should be focused on lynching. It doesn't make sense not to because with nine players our firefighter is at her least effective and I feel like in this setup, we need to act quickly. The fewer night phases we give the arsonists, the better, right?

    I don't really have many new observations to offer at this point, so let's get down to scumhunting.

    Huschel: You've probably taken the most visible stance amongst the forest. Do you worry this might make you a target for burnering?

    Jabberwok: From what I can gather, Shuhan, Shinobu, and Space have all advocated not lynching at some point. Do you think our arsonists are among these three or would that be too obvious?

    I'll be back in a bit.

  19. #79

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

    Kitsune Inferno (1): Huschel

    Not Voting (8): SUDK, SpaceCowboy, Jabberwok, Shuhan, Shinobu Mahara, Kitsune Inferno, Wooden_Giraffe, le crystal

    With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to extend the day.

    Day Extension (3): Huschel, Kitsune Inferno, SUDK

    A little over 13 hours remain.

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  20. #80

    Default Re: Mafia 57: Keeping it Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by SpaceCowboy View Post
    @Jabber & Wooden: Assuming Kitsune will still show up, eventually, how do you decide who should be lynched?
    Whoever seems least helpful or seems to have the poorest grasp of the rules, unless anyone should seem particularly suspicious (no one has really caught my eye yet). Particularly on this first day, it's basically a random guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitsune Inferno View Post
    Jabberwok: From what I can gather, Shuhan, Shinobu, and Space have all advocated not lynching at some point. Do you think our arsonists are among these three or would that be too obvious?
    Typically I'd estimate we'd have one arsonist advocating for lynch and the other against. However, given the timeline of when we received our PMs and when the game began, I think it's a reasonable assumption that the scum haven't identified each other yet. Without established coordination and with fewer numbers, they have a lot more risk than usual involved with a lynch. I'd expect at least one, if not both scum, to be pushing back against a lynch.

    If you get dunked on in the dream, you get dunked on in real life

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