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Thread: European Politics Thread

  1. #581
    Discovered Stowaway Kirbycide's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Well i mean most peoples personal information have probably been in a US government database. If you only collected the relevant stuff then the terrorists win.
    You know what, you're right! 'Murica.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood
    Where college Kirb went his freshman year could be all that stands betwenn you and a beheading.
    Ignorance was bliss, but now I'm woke and I don't know if I like it. *sticks head in sand*

  2. #582

    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    You get assigned your number from skatteverket (the tax office) at birth. It's usually your date of birth plus a four digit identification code. I think you get the card sent home a few weeks later but by like age 10-12 most kids have it memorized.
    Still sounds weird to me, we have an ID number and a a Natural Person number (meaning your taxpayer registry). But only the ID is a thing kids get, as for much of infancy you can use their birth certificate as a document for them.
    Sounds auspicious authoritarian the Swede way.


  3. #583
    The English Avenger Satsuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Social Security numbers/cards are a basic here. Both for tracking you in the Social Security program and for ID. It occasionally comes up in identity theft, but other than that there's never really been any problems here with it. They were created during FDR's New Deal as a way to help people during the Great Depression.

  4. #584
    King of Little Sisters ~ Chrior's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Yeah, I don't get the issues with Macron's new laws at all. Portugal is very similar to Sweden in this regard (I wish we were more similar in other aspects as well). It's mandatory to register children up until 5 days after birth (I think) and thei immediately get an ID card. In all schools I've been, I've also had a student card. From as early as I remember, I had my ID card, along with taxpayer, social security, and healthcare numbers. Going to school is essentially compulsory as well, though I have no idea how it is enforced. I know that the Portuguese government started measures similar to those announced in France but for Romani/gypsies, in order to stop the cycle of children brainwashing and ghetto communities by traditional gypsy education, especially for young girls. In exchange for letting their children go to school and better integrate into society, they got nice social housing and a universal basic income that increases for each kid. Although there is still a big discrimination problem with gypsy communities, I really think it has become much much better. By living closer to city centers in actual buildings and having access to public education and healthcare, they became much more integrated into society than they were when they lived in giant camps in the outskirts. And by giving them a basic income to support their traditional occupations, it helps to steer them away from drug dealing and other crime. It sounds very weird to me how this didn't happen in France before and how people acuse Macron of extremism.

  5. #585

    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrior View Post
    Yeah, I don't get the issues with Macron's new laws at all. Portugal is very similar to Sweden in this regard (I wish we were more similar in other aspects as well). It's mandatory to register children up until 5 days after birth (I think) and thei immediately get an ID card. In all schools I've been, I've also had a student card. From as early as I remember, I had my ID card, along with taxpayer, social security, and healthcare numbers. Going to school is essentially compulsory as well, though I have no idea how it is enforced. I know that the Portuguese government started measures similar to those announced in France but for Romani/gypsies, in order to stop the cycle of children brainwashing and ghetto communities by traditional gypsy education, especially for young girls. In exchange for letting their children go to school and better integrate into society, they got nice social housing and a universal basic income that increases for each kid. Although there is still a big discrimination problem with gypsy communities, I really think it has become much much better. By living closer to city centers in actual buildings and having access to public education and healthcare, they became much more integrated into society than they were when they lived in giant camps in the outskirts. And by giving them a basic income to support their traditional occupations, it helps to steer them away from drug dealing and other crime. It sounds very weird to me how this didn't happen in France before and how people acuse Macron of extremism.
    Because they are proposed alongside other legislation or statements that can easily be interpreted as discriminatory specifically against the Muslim population, and thus overshadows possible logical and good aspects of this particular bill (besides ID, controlling funding coming from outside of the country for example, or preventing separate societies building up due to isolated upbringing).
    Examples would be Darmanin talking about halal food and how producing and selling separate products would lead to cultural minorities, or the new supposed "anti-discrimination" law that punishes the refusal of treatment by a doctor of the opposite gender with up to 5 year prison time, since it is discriminating against the doctor based on gender.
    So itīs a general package thing.

  6. #586

    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Honestly, much has already been said. And to be even more honest, Americans must be one of the rare ones to have the recklessness to call this a "LePenist" law... especially after the Snowden revelations that revealed how the US is tracking down (and keeps doing it) everyone in the world like a true JamesBond villain.


    For those who understand French.

    "The president is annoyed at the treatment of the terrorist attacks by English-language media." Basically, this article (and many others articles and radio podcasts wether it's from the left or the right) says that the anglo-saxons are being way too politically correct. For the anglo-saxons, the problem comes above all from French secularism, which allows blasphemy. There are real terrorist attacks in France, but the NYTimes goes all "wow, sounds like the cops are too brutal with the terrorists, damn".


    Quote Originally Posted by MiyamotoMusashi View Post
    Examples would be Darmanin talking about halal food and how producing and selling separate products would lead to cultural minorities, or the new supposed "anti-discrimination" law that punishes the refusal of treatment by a doctor of the opposite gender with up to 5 year prison time, since it is discriminating against the doctor based on gender.
    So itīs a general package thing.
    Darmanin is a stupid shit who's only there because Macron is scared to lose the next elections. He's supposed to attract very right-wing voters. And yeah the second thing is harsh I guess, but what's wrong about it exactly ?
    Every nation gets the government it deserves.---- Joseph de Maistre

  7. #587

    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilitch View Post
    Honestly, much has already been said. And to be even more honest, Americans must be one of the rare ones to have the recklessness to call this a "LePenist" law... especially after the Snowden revelations that revealed how the US is tracking down (and keeps doing it) everyone in the world like a true JamesBond villain.


    For those who understand French.

    "The president is annoyed at the treatment of the terrorist attacks by English-language media." Basically, this article (and many others articles and radio podcasts wether it's from the left or the right) says that the anglo-saxons are being way too politically correct. For the anglo-saxons, the problem comes above all from French secularism, which allows blasphemy. There are real terrorist attacks in France, but the NYTimes goes all "wow, sounds like the cops are too brutal with the terrorists, damn".




    Darmanin is a stupid shit who's only there because Macron is scared to lose the next elections. He's supposed to attract very right-wing voters. And yeah the second thing is harsh I guess, but what's wrong about it exactly ?
    It restricts religious freedom since, as much i think it is silly from my point of view, it is an essential part of the religion to only be in contact with your spouse and nobody else from the opposite gender, not to forget it is not eligible under the medical ethics code anyway, hence many medical professionals have already spoken out against it.
    Identification, getting them into schools and educating them based on Western ideals, i am fully behind, same as all the Imam and funding stuff.
    But the anti discrimination law is very silly and unnecessary and puts a shade on the necessary stuff.

    In regards to the free speech debate and the reaction, both sides argue from an idealistic standpoint which is not appropriate in my opinion.
    Of course it would be ideal if everyone in the world understands the value of tolerance, even in regards to things that hurts them one way or the other, and accepting that free speech is absolute, even if you and your beliefs can end up as the butt of a joke, but how realistic is that with people who have never even heard the name Voltaire, let alone read him (considering his play Mohamet, maybe itīs better they donīt...).
    Cultural diversity has its consequences that many people like or tend to ignore and only look at the positives.

  8. #588
    Discovered Stowaway Lord Gaimon's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MiyamotoMusashi View Post
    It restricts religious freedom since, as much i think it is silly from my point of view, it is an essential part of the religion to only be in contact with your spouse and nobody else from the opposite gender.
    Laicité means religion doesn't get special treatment, why should stupid beliefs be accommodated just because they are religious?
    Last edited by Lord Gaimon; November 23rd, 2020 at 06:30 AM.

  9. #589

    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Gaimon View Post
    Laïcité means religion doesn't get special treatment, why should stupid beliefs be accommodated just because they are religious?
    Pretty simplistic question, not that i ever said that it should, i have no dog in this fight.
    Like i said at the end of my last post, most people tend to look at multiculturalism as a sole positive thing most of the time but it can have severe consequences and implications that usually get ignored based on illusions, especially with two cultures clashing that have no willingness to compromise.
    You canīt have 4 million devout people (exaggerated for the point) who follow what the Quran and the Fatwas they believe in strictly that also adhere to the values and ideas of the age of enlightenment, itīs a contradiction. Moderate religious people can do that because they stopped following the rules of their specific religion strictly and have molded whatever they believe in to fit both modern times and their personal lives, so they can still somewhat enact their religious beliefs but also still function within the modern society they live in, itīs a compromise.
    So everything has its limits, including both religious freedom and freedom of speech, itīs just that the limits of both within Western societies are usually irrelevant for most of us or are not tangible, it all depends on where the limits are drawn.
    Having said that, in my opinion it should not be at choosing the gender of your treating doctor, itīs silly and unnecessary since it is as harmless as selling halal food, and does not prevent the creation of moderate believers, and that should be the goal right now, not to antagonize that part of the population and completely restrict a key freedom that is necessary in their belief.
    My personal ideal is obviously much different but i am not using that as a benchmark, itīs too distant from reality.

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