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Thread: European Politics Thread

  1. #181
    King of Little Sisters ~ Chrior's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Sweden and Denmark should just join a federation with Norway and leave the EU. Way too much trouble for what it's worth for you guys. Finland has already been swallowed by the single currency monster, so they have to stay.

  2. #182
    The Moustache Bandit Nolus's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Hungary is scarier than Poland because there's much more festering senses of "WE NEED OUR CLAY" going on. Hungarian nationalists are obsessed with the Treaty of Trianon where areas populated by Hungarians within the Austro-Hungarian empire got spread out to various other countries.
    As a result Hungarian nationalists dream of taking territory from Slovakia, Croatia, Serbia, and especially Romania (Transylvania).
    Fucking true. We just can't let it go, we need to bring up Trianon over and over again, even though it's been almost a hundred years. Don't get me wrong, that treaty wrecked the country infrastructure wise, and it was a big fucking blow, but there's no way in hell it can be reversed at this point. I wholeheartedly hope that my generation and those to come after us will not inherit this "trianon-craze" and it can finally rest in piece.

    I sometimes wonder if I even qualify as a Hungarian, because of our culture, I'm only proud of the food and the langauge. A lot of other parts have been infested with ultra-nationalistic bullshit. I don't even want to call myself a Hungarian, my mindset is so different in this regard. I'm a human, first and foremost, and being Hungarian doesn't even come close to the ten most important things I consider to be essential to who I am.


  3. #183

    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrior View Post
    Sweden and Denmark should just join a federation with Norway and leave the EU. Way too much trouble for what it's worth for you guys. Finland has already been swallowed by the single currency monster, so they have to stay.
    I have a hard time seeing a scenario where we'd be in any type of personal union without the no borders higher goal. If you remove the EU idea that we are one Europe or even one world we are back to hating on the Danes for being Danes. It's like two competitive brothers working at a large company is fine, there's lots of padding inbetwenn them that makes the friction go away. But put them in a one room family company and watch that shit go to shreds in a matter of days.

  4. #184

    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FolhaS View Post
    Could you provide a bit more context or articles on those new laws the students are fighting against?
    That video was just a call to arms to those already aware of the situation so i didn't get much info form it.
    Basically this
    Spoiler:
    Today, as France again faces revolts from students and workers, the left sees a rare opportunity to reignite the spark that set the country alight in 1968: railway workers opposed to legislation to change their status have taken to the streetsen masse and halted much of the train network; Air France pilots are striking over pay; the elderly are furious about pension reforms; students are protesting over proposed changes to access to higher education.

    President Emmanuel Macron
    plans to change the baccalaureate requiring students to specialise earlier and to introduce more selective entry requirements for universities as opposed to the current lottery system. Opponents say the measures go against France’s tradition of free education for all and will penalise poorer students

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/07/the-spirit-of-1968-rises-again-can-french-students-and-workers-triumph


    Until now literally everyone graduating high-school could go to uni. Study whatever they want, and wherever they want.
    But lots of people can't pass their first year, so they want to select people who can go to college.

    What this article calls the "lottery system" is that some people ended up studying stuff they didn't want to during their first year. It's usually people who want to study law, medicine or sports. There are too many of them. So, some ended up in other fields for a year. It is bad yeah, but it doesn't concern that much people.

    Also, in the past years there has been way more people coming at uni. All because of the CLIMAX of births in the late 90' and early 2000. So, lots of colleges don't even have enough room and chairs. Some have to sit down on the floor if they can, and if they can't... well, they can't attend class because the room is too small.
    Last edited by Nilitch; April 22nd, 2018 at 10:35 AM.

  5. #185
    The English Avenger Satsuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrior View Post
    Sweden and Denmark should just join a federation with Norway and leave the EU. Way too much trouble for what it's worth for you guys. Finland has already been swallowed by the single currency monster, so they have to stay.
    Aww, don't leave poor Finland in the dust.



    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    I have a hard time seeing a scenario where we'd be in any type of personal union without the no borders higher goal. If you remove the EU idea that we are one Europe or even one world we are back to hating on the Danes for being Danes. It's like two competitive brothers working at a large company is fine, there's lots of padding inbetwenn them that makes the friction go away. But put them in a one room family company and watch that shit go to shreds in a matter of days.
    So the Nordics can't be brothers? Awwww.



    (note: the characters go Iceland-Norway-Denmark-Finland-Sweden. All blonde of course.)

  6. #186

    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilitch View Post
    Basically this
    Spoiler:
    Today, as France again faces revolts from students and workers, the left sees a rare opportunity to reignite the spark that set the country alight in 1968: railway workers opposed to legislation to change their status have taken to the streetsen masse and halted much of the train network; Air France pilots are striking over pay; the elderly are furious about pension reforms; students are protesting over proposed changes to access to higher education.

    President Emmanuel Macron
    plans to change the baccalaureate requiring students to specialise earlier and to introduce more selective entry requirements for universities as opposed to the current lottery system. Opponents say the measures go against France’s tradition of free education for all and will penalise poorer students

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/07/the-spirit-of-1968-rises-again-can-french-students-and-workers-triumph


    Until now literally everyone graduating high-school could go to uni. Study whatever they want, and wherever they want.
    But lots of people can't pass their first year, so they want to select people who can go to college.

    What this article calls the "lottery system" is that some people ended up studying stuff they didn't want to during their first year. It's usually people who want to study law, medicine or sports. There are too many of them. So, some ended up in other fields for a year. It is bad yeah, but it doesn't concern that much people.

    Also, in the past years there has been way more people coming at uni. All because of the CLIMAX of births in the late 90' and early 2000. So, lots of colleges don't even have enough room and chairs. Some have to sit down on the floor if they can, and if they can't... well, they can't attend class because the room is too small.
    I can apreciate the sentiment in granting everyone an equal opportunity of going to a university near home but that doesn't seem a great system.
    Studies at that point should be something more focused and it's a waste of everyone's time if people can simply jump into whatever course they wish with no account to merit.

    Not saying a strictly merit system is without flaws, it can lead to burnout in one hand and it doesn't take into account stuff like the complex and yet forming teenage mind (like doubts about future plans or the higher than average rates of depression and anxiety) on the other.


    Also, from what I understood you have no differenciation of classes during high-school, is that right?





  7. #187

    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FolhaS View Post
    I can apreciate the sentiment in granting everyone an equal opportunity of going to a university near home but that doesn't seem a great system. Studies at that point should be something more focused and it's a waste of everyone's time if people can simply jump into whatever course they wish with no account to merit.

    As I said, the issue is mostly for those in first year, and it usually really concerns Law, Medicine and STAPS (sport).


    Also, from what I understood you have no differenciation of classes during high-school, is that right?

    No, we do. And that's partially why so many people can't pass their first year at uni. For instance, people who studied accounting (lycée professionnel) can go at uni and study literature. Statistically speaking, most will fail and in the end they will just waste their time for a year. The thing is that when you go to a lycée professionnel you're not supposed to go to college after, but get another diploma that'll get you to work in 2years or so (usually that). So they don't know the methodology to write an analysis on an historical text (for instance).
    It will still be possible for them to attend college though, but UNIs are just gonna be somewhat selective. And the "somewhat" is the issue, because it's not really clear how students will be selected.

    Also, there are 3 kinds of high-schools btw here. Lycée Professionel. Lycée Technologique, it makes you chose between a bunch of stuff that focuses on technology and whatnot. And Lycée Général that gives you the choice between lots of hard science (Bac Scientifique) OR lots of literature, history and philosophy (Bac Littéraire, the one I took) OR something balanced between those two (Bac Économie et Social, which includes economy and all). I wonder how it works in other countries
    Anyway, Macron wants to reform high-school too. And basically, he will just wave his liberal magic wand and give more choice to people. They will just be able to choose more precisely what they want to study. Kinda like how you chose your class at uni

  8. #188

    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    I see, then your high school system is not so different from the one we have in Portugal.
    We also have Professional courses, but those classes usually take place in the same regular high schools as everything else, whose gradutes are usually expected to enter the work force after that, and we have different general courses (Science and Technologie, Socioeconomic Science, Language and Humanities, and Visual Arts) which imply different classes for the most part except for a few shared ones, whose gradutes are expected to go into the university.

    The biggest difference I see is that at the end of high school, in order to apply for a university, we have to take national exams related to thing you want to study.
    Wanna study literature or languages? Gotta take the Portuguese Language exam. Wanna study Economy? Take the math exam. Etc, etc.

  9. #189
    Discovered Stew Femme's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Me in London today by Parliament xD

    Hidden:
    snip
    Last edited by Femme; April 28th, 2018 at 05:26 AM.
    Hidden:



  10. #190

    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Femme View Post
    Me in London today by Parliament xD

    So what's the British uncle sam fellow selling or pitching?

    Also i suggest that we call him father jack. Brother to sam

  11. #191
    Discovered Stew Femme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    So what's the British uncle sam fellow selling or pitching?

    Also i suggest that we call him father jack. Brother to sam
    LOL So apparently every day they have a couple protestors there talking to people, it’s a heavy tourist spot across the street from parliament. They weren’t really talking about much, I just introduced myself to this lady and was like “Hi, I’m from Canada, can I get a photo” :P

    Cuz I mean this could be a very historical photo to look back on if Brexit goes full steam ahead.
    Hidden:



  12. #192

    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Femme View Post
    LOL So apparently every day they have a couple protestors there talking to people, it’s a heavy tourist spot across the street from parliament. They weren’t really talking about much, I just introduced myself to this lady and was like “Hi, I’m from Canada, can I get a photo” :P

    Cuz I mean this could be a very historical photo to look back on if Brexit goes full steam ahead.
    Ain't much if about that as far as i can tell.

    So you've got your very own memento of one of the more suprising moves in recent history.

  13. #193

    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    I have a hard time seeing a scenario where we'd be in any type of personal union without the no borders higher goal. If you remove the EU idea that we are one Europe or even one world we are back to hating on the Danes for being Danes. It's like two competitive brothers working at a large company is fine, there's lots of padding inbetwenn them that makes the friction go away. But put them in a one room family company and watch that shit go to shreds in a matter of days.
    Sweden and denmark already have a personal union from the 1950s with the other nordic union and does give a lot of rights. Labour rights, schools and open borders there within, most rights and some more are granted with the nordic union. Only reason why you can go to faroe island without passport as they are non eu but you can only go there from other nordic union countries.

  14. #194

    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by hreinnbeno View Post
    Sweden and denmark already have a personal union from the 1950s with the other nordic union and does give a lot of rights. Labour rights, schools and open borders there within, most rights and some more are granted with the nordic union. Only reason why you can go to faroe island without passport as they are non eu but you can only go there from other nordic union countries.
    Sweden and Denmark had a political union the equivilent of the EU in the 50's? Like i knew we had a basic framework where we had a basic freedom of movement within Scandinavia without the need of a passport but i never knew that we at some point in the fifties shared political power and decision making betwenn our nations. What was the union called? I sort of want to google this and check it out.
    Last edited by wolfwood; April 27th, 2018 at 02:15 AM.

  15. #195

    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Sweden and Denmark had a political union the equivilent of the EU in the 50's? Like i knew we had a basic framework where we had a basic freedom of movement within Scandinavia without the need of a passport but i never knew that we at some point in the fifties shared political power and decision making betwenn our nations. What was the union called? I sort of want to google this and check it out.
    Nordic council and still exists. Has a parliament and still gives you rights, you wont notice the rights without moving to iceland or norway(non eu but in schengen, but still lack some eu things, that nordic council backs up, schooling is one thing) It shares ideas, has some money where they decide to put specific money in certain projects and what not.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Council

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Passport_Union
    Or indeed moving to faroe islands, where non nordic eu residents need working visa.




    https://www.faroeislands.fo/people-society/work-live/moving-to-the-faroe-islands/



  16. #196

    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by hreinnbeno View Post
    Nordic council and still exists. Has a parliament and still gives you rights, you wont notice the rights without moving to iceland or norway(non eu but in schengen, but still lack some eu things, that nordic council backs up, schooling is one thing) It shares ideas, has some money where they decide to put specific money in certain projects and what not.

    Or indeed moving to faroe islands, where non nordic eu residents need working visa.
    https://www.faroeislands.fo/people-s...faroe-islands/
    Oh if it was just that what you were refering to then i'm okay. I felt a cold sweat there like i had missed something huge lol. But the nordic council is as far as i know only a cooperative group that puts forth suggestions and has no formal power to speak of. What i meant when i spoke about a personal union was an actual binding union where large facets of Swedish and Danish law, policy and other major decisions are decided jointly and failiure to comply with union law would come with consequences. I'm not doubting that the nords are capable of having friendly relations or having non-commited cooperative groups where each nation still has final say. But i'm seriously doubting the possibility of our nations coming together as one in the same way the EU has without the padding of other non-rival nations lol.

  17. #197

    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Oh if it was just that what you were refering to then i'm okay. I felt a cold sweat there like i had missed something huge lol. But the nordic council is as far as i know only a cooperative group that puts forth suggestions and has no formal power to speak of. What i meant when i spoke about a personal union was an actual binding union where large facets of Swedish and Danish law, policy and other major decisions are decided jointly and failiure to comply with union law would come with consequences. I'm not doubting that the nords are capable of having friendly relations or having non-commited cooperative groups where each nation still has final say. But i'm seriously doubting the possibility of our nations coming together as one in the same way the EU has without the padding of other non-rival nations lol.

    There is a nordic council agreement and if you read about the nordic council you can clearly see that there are laws that have been made to the individual law.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic...age_Convention
    They have as well a full on passport union that requires as well a binding union of law.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Passport_Union

    Nordic council is already EU light, and it doesnt need a lot of effort to make it more binding.

  18. #198

    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by hreinnbeno View Post
    There is a nordic council agreement and if you read about the nordic council you can clearly see that there are laws that have been made to the individual law.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic...age_Convention
    They have as well a full on passport union that requires as well a binding union of law.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Passport_Union

    Nordic council is already EU light, and it doesnt need a lot of effort to make it more binding.
    But any suggestion that the nordic council suggests has to be proposed, approved for and voted for in each individual parliment in order to make it legal. What the council itself suggests has no bearing unless each nation is willing to vote it through their nations proper channels. The nordic council has no legal authority to enforce anything it suggests. So even when the suggestions are made into law it is only made into law on the basis of what each nation approves internally. The step from that to a nordic parliment that independently passes legislation over all three nations and their dominions is quite a large step in my estimation.

  19. #199

    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilitch View Post
    Also, there are 3 kinds of high-schools btw here. Lycée Professionel. Lycée Technologique, it makes you chose between a bunch of stuff that focuses on technology and whatnot. And Lycée Général that gives you the choice between lots of hard science (Bac Scientifique) OR lots of literature, history and philosophy (Bac Littéraire, the one I took) OR something balanced between those two (Bac Économie et Social, which includes economy and all). I wonder how it works in other countries
    Anyway, Macron wants to reform high-school too. And basically, he will just wave his liberal magic wand and give more choice to people. They will just be able to choose more precisely what they want to study. Kinda like how you chose your class at uni
    In the IB, you choose a handful of subjects (6) according to some restrictions to take for the last two years of high school. The UK and Ireland have similar systems with like 3-6 subjects, depending on the system. These are like the analogue to the French bac. As I see it, there are pros and cons like, getting to specialise can feel nice, especially if you have narrow interests, both because you get some control over what you study and because you don't have to put huge amounts of effort into something you really struggle with (many people feel this way about getting to drop maths). Then since you're more specialised you also get to go into much more depth into the things you do keep. On the other hand, people sometimes regret there choices; a broad base is nice because you are made to put off closing off options until you know more and are maybe more mature, who knows.

    On the topic of the uni admissions, I think a lot of problems non-selective universities have is that their student intake comprises a very wide variety of student abilities, which makes it very hard to cater to them all (bring people at the bottom up to some basic passing level, but also not leave people at the top bored/unchallenged/whatever). For example EPFL is open to anyone who passes the Swiss high school diploma, but 70% of people fail the first year, not because of something like they're in a field they;re not well prepared for, but because the university feels the need to make it academically at a high level, since it's a top university (and has pretty high entry requirements for international students). They do some smart things, like if you score too low in semestre 1 of the first year, you are taken out of the normal system to do this mise à nouveau course, which goes back over the basics and you have to pass it to then retake the first year next year. The idea is that most people eventually make it through first year. But a lot of places struggle to achieve that - like in the Kazakh National University, they have a huge failure rate on their first year maths courses, which they require everyone to take. It's a big university and they have this broad range of ability levels, and they have no way to give properly adapted support to each student.

    I've yet to be convinced by this whole non-selective admission thing. To me it just seems like it creates a lot of problems. When you have a system where the students are closely banded in ability, the teaching they get can much more easily be well suited to their individual needs.

    But hey, this is wandering a bit off-topic...

  20. #200

    Default Re: European Politics Thread

    Jesus fucking Christ Eurovision.

    I reckon I can say this in the political thread

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