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Thread: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

  1. #4561

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by Daz View Post
    but the fact that so many of these things have stuck around in videogames and whatever must've meant that someone liked it.
    Not really. More that the games could use whatever padding they could get, and for a long time that was the end of the series so its what they had to draw from. Otherwise the games end up having Frieza, Cell and Buu as enemies, a couple minions, and then nothing else. The new forms and enemies in Super have pretty much phased them out to complete non-priority, aside from SUper 4, and even that's a late choice now after Super 1, 2, 3, Blue, Ultra Instinct, Kid Goku, classic Goku, Vegetto, Gogeta, Bardock, and two forms of Broly have have all already been used...
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  2. #4562
    I'm a bad boy! ;) Nitwit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    I'm NOT a doggy. I am a creature from another world.

  3. #4563

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitwit View Post
    To be fair DBZ ended in 1996.

  4. #4564

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    This worked when they did it with James Gunn.......for all of about 7 months or so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  5. #4565
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    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    This worked when they did it with James Gunn.......for all of about 7 months or so.
    Were these recordings recent recent or no? Otherwise completely different situations

  6. #4566

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by thegab View Post
    Were these recordings recent recent or no? Otherwise completely different situations
    Yeah I suppose there's nothing to gleam from the IStandWithVic/VicKicksBack tags that I've seen in tweets relating to this development nor some people actually arguing that Funimation should lose DragonBall because they're ruining it (if this were early 2000's I'd agree).

    The timeline doesn't matter this is bullshit either way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
    3DS Friend Code 0044-2806-5284




  7. #4567

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    This worked when they did it with James Gunn.......for all of about 7 months or so.
    Disney and Toei are very different companies so I wouldn't expect a similar outcome.

    Toei probably wouldn't care if the voice actors were caught making dirty jokes at a con years ago, but they definitely care about clear misuse of their IP by Funimation employees using Funimation equipment at the office.

    Their decision to not delete the audio clips for years really just makes things worse, because it appears they kept a major liability around just waiting to be misused by a disgruntled employee because they all agreed it was funny.

  8. #4568

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    Disney and Toei are very different companies so I wouldn't expect a similar outcome.
    Wasn't implying that there would be it's just the absurdly similar tit for tat stupidity involved.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  9. #4569
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    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    Yeah I suppose there's nothing to gleam from the IStandWithVic/VicKicksBack tags that I've seen in tweets relating to this development nor some people actually arguing that Funimation should lose DragonBall because they're ruining it (if this were early 2000's I'd agree).

    The timeline doesn't matter this is bullshit either way.
    A decade ago was definitely different from today. Its not an excuse and they shouldn't be crucified over this. I mean...you sound like its a conspiracy that their shitty talk is being leaked and called out. James Gunn, ya, he was def being singled out for being an outspoken anti-trumper. Doesnt mean every instance similar to that has some political motive. They should just put out a sincere aplogoly yada yada they were in the wrong.

    Also...timeline defintely matters bc people change and grow. If this were 10 years ago,then ya they fucked up and have grown and changed since then. If it were a week ago...

  10. #4570

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by thegab View Post
    A decade ago was definitely different from today. Its not an excuse and they shouldn't be crucified over this. I mean...you sound like its a conspiracy that their shitty talk is being leaked and called out. James Gunn, ya, he was def being singled out for being an outspoken anti-trumper. Doesnt mean every instance similar to that has some political motive. They should just put out a sincere aplogoly yada yada they were in the wrong.

    Also...timeline defintely matters bc people change and grow. If this were 10 years ago,then ya they fucked up and have grown and changed since then. If it were a week ago...
    The morality of the individual clips isn't going to affect the outcome of this situation because Toei doesn't really care what we think.

  11. #4571

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Am I the only one who wishes that the guys who did Dragon Ball FighterZ (arc system works I think there called) Did the next big Jump Force game?

  12. #4572

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiebs View Post
    Am I the only one who wishes that the guys who did Dragon Ball FighterZ (arc system works I think there called) Did the next big Jump Force game?
    That would be very different but awesome!

  13. #4573

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by thegab View Post
    I mean...you sound like its a conspiracy that their shitty talk is being leaked and called out.
    Except it is and they're not being called out for any other reason other then a few salty people trying to make this into a much bigger deal than it is because of another incident that this story has nothing to do with. I mean what other reason is there for this?

    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    The morality of the individual clips isn't going to affect the outcome of this situation because Toei doesn't really care what we think.
    Pretty much as long as they know Funi can keep helping them fill their coffers there's not much they're going to push to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiebs View Post
    Am I the only one who wishes that the guys who did Dragon Ball FighterZ (arc system works I think there called) Did the next big Jump Force game?
    Honestly it would make more sense to make a whole new game rather than make a sequel.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  14. #4574

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    Except it is and they're not being called out for any other reason other then a few salty people trying to make this into a much bigger deal than it is because of another incident that this story has nothing to do with. I mean what other reason is there for this?
    I agree that there's clearly an ulterior motive behind the release of these clips, but let's try to avoid talking about Vic because it'll inevitably devolve into another back and forth between two sides who hate each other.

  15. #4575

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    Honestly it would make more sense to make a whole new game rather than make a sequel.
    I didn't really mean it as a direct sequel to Jump Forces

    I meant that arc system works could do a crossover with all the different shonen jump manga series like Jump forces/J-Star victory vs/Jump ultimate stars/jump super stars. But make it like there games like Dragon Ball fighterZ/Guilty Gear/ Blaz Blue

  16. #4576
    Division Commander Daz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Not really. More that the games could use whatever padding they could get, and for a long time that was the end of the series so its what they had to draw from. Otherwise the games end up having Frieza, Cell and Buu as enemies, a couple minions, and then nothing else. The new forms and enemies in Super have pretty much phased them out to complete non-priority, aside from SUper 4, and even that's a late choice now after Super 1, 2, 3, Blue, Ultra Instinct, Kid Goku, classic Goku, Vegetto, Gogeta, Bardock, and two forms of Broly have have all already been used...
    With Super overriding GT continuity and being the current iteration of the franchise it'd make sense to phase out GT for the same reason it "makes sense" for the latest Marvel vs Capcom game to be extremely MCU centric. That doesn't mean the Dragonball GT iconography wasn't being kept alive for decades after the series ended; even if the characters were only added to the games as """padding""" it still only makes sense to spend time and resources adding them if they serve as an incentive to the players. If literally no one liked literally anything about GT there would be no value in adding GT characters in addition to Freezer and Cell, especially over alternatives such as the many movie villains.

    Actually looking up the recent games, I'd say the phasing-out hasn't really happened, at least not until the very last game; Battle of Gods was in 2013. Dragon ball Fusion (2016) features Majuub, Super 17, Baby, Nuovo and Omega Shenron, and plenty of SSJ4 forms - including new ones for Gohan and Broly! Xenoverse 2 (2016) features GT Goku and Trunks, the Shenrons, Pan, Super 17 and DLC Baby, and has Whis and Beerus marvel at the awesomeness of SSJ4 in the story.
    And even the most recent and DBS-focused game, Fighterz, has GT Goku as DLC, specifically expecting people to pay money for the privilege of playing as him.

    The fact that these things - especially SSJ4 - are being kept alive in a post Super world shows that they had an impact. They wouldn't still be here if they didn't sell.

  17. #4577

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Sure... and SS4 GOku as DLC came after basic Goku, SUper Goku, Goku Black, Goku Blue, Vegitto, Gogeta, Bardock, Kid Goku. Not to mention three Vegeta's and two Broly's, and after all the cool looking movie villains. Its what they went to after they'd exhausted everything else.

    And the fusion game was explicitly about doing wild crazy different versions of everything.

    Yes, the fact that GT existed and left behind some visuals is part of the history, its always something they can sell, the same way Pokemon has Chimecho and Purugly. Sure its there in the history. but no one cared about that story. There was a reason that chunk never got any movies.
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  18. #4578
    Division Commander Daz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Sure... and SS4 GOku as DLC came after basic Goku, SUper Goku, Goku Black, Goku Blue, Vegitto, Gogeta, Bardock, Kid Goku. Not to mention three Vegeta's and two Broly's, and after all the cool looking movie villains. Its what they went to after they'd exhausted everything else.
    Sure. But it says something that a 2018 DBS - heavy game would even include someone from a discarded continuity. Like, Disney isn't exactly stoking the flames of old Star Wars extended universe, you know? At the end of the day, in the most recent Dragon Ball Fighter you can't play as Master Roshi, Tao Pai Pai, Demon King Piccolo, Raditz, Zarbon, Dodoria, any Friezer form but the last ones, Androids 19 and 20, any Cell form but the last one, Kaioshin, Dabura, Super Buu, Cabba, Frost, Caulifla or Kale...but you can play as GT Goku (please do break out a case by case list of caveats for why GT Gokus inclusion somehow trumps these characters while simultaneously being indicative of zero merit of GTs existence). Because the game developers judged that there was sufficient demand for the cahracter to justify including him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    And the fusion game was explicitly about doing wild crazy different versions of everything.
    ...Yeah? And included the GT characters because - supposedly - people would find it enjoyable to mix and match with them? And that game also neglects any DB era character except for Demon King Piccolo... but does feature plenty of SSJ4 characters, Bulla, Pan, Super 17, Baby, and the evil Shenrons.
    Besides that, it also bothers to include GT chararcters prominently in its story mode. Hell, beyond that, Dragon Ball Heroes (which is apparantly hugely popular in Japan) apparently did their own Shadow Dragon storyline, complete with tie in manga and everything, and Omega Shenron got to be the main antagonist of the final storyline/ ENTIRE GAME in Ultimate Tenkaichi (2011!) and Extreme Butoden (2015!!!) respectively. In the latter Beerus made him fight SSG Goku!

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Yes, the fact that GT existed and left behind some visuals is part of the history, its always something they can sell, the same way Pokemon has Chimecho and Purugly. Sure its there in the history. but no one cared about that story. There was a reason that chunk never got any movies.
    Purugly doesn't get included in Pokken Tournament. Or is the focus of tonnes of merch, figurines, plushies etcetera. Or gets wheeled out with new forms routinely. Or gets to be the focus of major story lines or even entire games. Purugly gets reused because all Pokemon get reused, whereas GT is a two + decades old spinoff series which is no longer canon, and supposedly reviled...and still gets exposure because its iconography still sells. Because some people liked it. If it was truly some universally hated stain on the franchise, it wouldn't still be around.

    And if Purugly plushies exist and can turn a profit, hell, it means someone likes that too.
    Last edited by Daz; August 31st, 2019 at 07:17 AM.

  19. #4579

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    The company that made General Blue a pedophile because the source material insinuates that he's gay is DEFINITELY extremely upset that an American dubbing company is making uncouth jokes after work.

  20. #4580

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by Daz View Post
    in the most recent Dragon Ball Fighter you can't play as Master Roshi, Tao Pai Pai, Demon King Piccolo, Raditz, Zarbon, Dodoria, any Friezer form but the last ones, Androids 19 and 20, any Cell form but the last one, Kaioshin, Dabura, Super Buu, Cabba, Frost, Caulifla or Kale...but you can play as GT Goku (please do break out a case by case list of caveats for why GT Gokus inclusion somehow trumps these characters while simultaneously being indicative of zero merit of GTs existence). Because the game developers judged that there was sufficient demand for the cahracter to justify including him.
    They don't have Raditz but they do have Nappa, Saibamen and three Vegetas. They don't have Zarbon and Dodoria but they do have the entire GInyu Force. THey don't have 19 and 20 but they do have 16, 17, 18, 21, and Cell. Those parts of the story are represented. Aside from visuals there's not much to suggest a new moveset for the early Frieza and Cell forms. And they do have 4th form Frieza, 100% Frieza, Gold Frieza, and Cooler. And the rest were all very relatively short term and just don't carry the same fanbase..


    ...Yeah? And included the GT characters because - supposedly - people would find it enjoyable to mix and match with them? And that game also neglects any DB era character except for Demon King Piccolo...
    Because they clearly decided Goku is the most important and including more of him trumps lots of things. Thatls why there's like 7 of him and 3 Vegetas and 2 Broly's and 2.5 Gohans (Including Videl) before there's 1 of many other characters.

    No one really cares about classic Dragonball either. More than they care about GT, but not much. Those characters are historically sidelined until game rosters start getting really high, then they start pulling from the original. Tenkaichi Budokai didn't start getting to some characters until their later games when the roster was 150 characters strong and they have to start going for deep cuts. Is how it is.

    Probably because thats the "comedy" era, or maybe because the games are advertising with the Z on it they feel obligated to stick to that part of the story.

    but does feature plenty of SSJ4 characters, Bulla, Pan, Super 17, Baby, and the evil Shenrons.
    Besides that, it also bothers to include GT chararcters prominently in its story mode. Hell, beyond that, Dragon Ball Heroes (which is apparantly hugely popular in Japan) apparently did their own Shadow Dragon storyline, complete with tie in manga and everything, and Omega Shenron got to be the main antagonist of the final storyline/ ENTIRE GAME in Ultimate Tenkaichi (2011!) and Extreme Butoden (2015!!!) respectively. In the latter Beerus made him fight SSG Goku!
    There is a vast difference from liking the *stuff* from GT, twenty years removed, and liking GT itself. People like the ideas, or have some nostalgia for that thing they don't remember, but that's not the same thing as saying "I loved watching GT, its my favorite part of dragonball and the characters in those arcs are my favorite. That story was paced well and had a good balance of comedy, character, and action, and it entirely holds up to rewatching.""

    Throwing in wild stuff into a wild mishmash of the entire history of the franchise, as Heroes does, reusing and reinventing old assets, as the new movie did for Broly, is different.

    Yes, GT is part of the history. It exists. That stuff gets dragged back out.



    whereas GT is a two + decades old spinoff series which is no longer canon, and supposedly reviled...and still gets exposure because its iconography still sells.
    Well yeah. That's my entire point. The visuals. The ideas of it. People have mostly been exposed to those things at this point secondhand, through the merchandising, the actual experience with GT itself is long since removed.

    Heck, I remember long before GT reached these shores but we'd still managed to see pictures of SUper 4, and we thought it was cool and that the dragons were goign be awesome villains,and logically we knew that was going to be the toughest strongest form, because we could count to 4, and we liked the idea of it. Without ever actually even seeing GT at all. We also thought Super 3 and Gotenks were cool without having any context but just from seeign them in random Japanese posters that were a decade ahead of us. Liking a design or an idea is a different beast from liking the execution of it..

    Because some people liked it. If it was truly some universally hated stain on the franchise, it wouldn't still be around.
    Its canonically the last part of the franchise with the "strongest" characters. On that basis alone it usually got put at the end of games and had the strongest bosses because... it was the end of the timeline. If it had been a filler saga like Garlic Jr. in the middle or the other universe tournament, instead of the end cap, as the final representation the series had, it would have been more easily overlooked and forgotten the last decades. Super 4 in paticular is a visually distinct look for the main characters, so it gets remembered for that. If that had instead been an alt form for say, Yajirobe, it'd get referenced but it'd be ignored just like Yajirobe himself usually is.
    Last edited by Robby; September 1st, 2019 at 09:47 AM.
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