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Thread: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

  1. #4481

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    I mean,his plan was literally "Let the badguy steal all the energy from this guy and we'll follow him, and then we'll group attack whatever we can. I have no idea what to do when we face Dabura."

    Like, he didn't for even one second think to ask "Hey, can any of you sense energy? There's a new large power somewhere on the planet...." Goku could have just instant movement popped them right there. Or you know, there's a lookout from which God watches things, maybe he could help? ANd even barring that, pick up the dragonballs and ask the dragon to tell you where they are? I mean Bulma was able to gather them all up in like 20 minutes that same day so....

    I can ALMOST excuse him not grasping just how strong his allies were because they'd gotten that strong within the last ten years which is nothing on the cosmic scale and its implied their Pre-Android training \ levels would have been overwhelmed... but the dragonballs had been there for centuries.

    Also, you can recruit dead people so go grab a couple other strong guys to help out, like filler character Pikuhan that Goku had just been hanging out with who was Cell level strong. Or go grab canon character AKuman who explodes anyone that has evil in their hearts. And Arale who apparently is still up to par due to gag strength. And don't just leave Android 18 at the tournament for goofs, she's one of the best fighters, take her with! Etc. Just... ugh..
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  2. #4482

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    > God of creation

    > Worried about intergalactic threats

    > Completely neglects Freeza's and Cell's existences.

    > Doesn't even approach the crew before the tournament to plan ahead

    > Doesn't even do the creation part of his job

    Good going, Shin!

  3. #4483

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by NamiRobinFrankyAce View Post
    I still HATE the retcon they did it with the Potara. In the manga they clearly say that once you do the fusion,you can never come back separated. And the Vegeth's division was an exception,only because he was in Majin Bu's body(kinda forced,but still). In Super,they suddendly say "If two humans do the Potara fusion it lasts one hour". What?? I hated that so much.
    What bothers me is how useless it is. Because it's the SECOND retcon(if you wanna call it that) in Super involving the Potara.

    We're shown at the start of the series that the Potara COULD be undone with the Namekian Dragon Balls.

    But they needed to give Trunks a reason for a random power up I guess.
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    A magical strange Twilight Zone episode where no other education is offered, and the only option is Bill Nye the Science Guy videos

  4. #4484

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    To be fair, aside from Beerus, do any gods in Dragon Ball actually do their jobs? They've always seemed pretty useless to me.

  5. #4485

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly


  6. #4486

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobodyman View Post
    To be fair, aside from Beerus, do any gods in Dragon Ball actually do their jobs? They've always seemed pretty useless to me.
    I could be wrong, but wasn't even the canon reason why King Kai still has a job being the Kai's were too lazy to pick a replacement, so they let him keep doing it while dead?
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    A magical strange Twilight Zone episode where no other education is offered, and the only option is Bill Nye the Science Guy videos

  7. #4487

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Reminder that U7 only has 28 planets with sentient life on them because Shin is incompetent and Beerus only eats and sleeps.

  8. #4488

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiolino View Post
    Shin is incompetent and Beerus only eats and sleeps.
    Given Shin's done jack shit, can we really say there is any difference between him and Beerus?


    I mean as far as the Super manga goes, at least Beerus has fishing contests with the Oracle fish.


    We now have at least one recreational activity for Beerus. And none for Shin.

    He probably eats mayonnaise, sleeps, then ponders his existence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    A magical strange Twilight Zone episode where no other education is offered, and the only option is Bill Nye the Science Guy videos

  9. #4489

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by kouch_lee View Post
    Gotta say, I agree. . .though not on every front. I find Moro pretty boring so far. Also, this is suffering from the same ailments as the Goku Black arc, which is. . .we've been through this before. It's reeeeally hard no to get massive flashbacks from the Namek arc.

    But this last few chapters added a new element, and that is. . .well, just read it. It made me really happy to see it, honestly.

    Spoilers in case you want to ruin the surprise:

    Spoiler:
    After being blueballed to hell and back with Buu, he's basically back in full force here. He's the de-facto protagonist of the arc, kind of like Trunks was in the anime version of the Goku Black arc, and he's actually kicking asses and taking names. Of course the arc's still not finished, and seeing the uber messy narrative of the Goku Black arc and, to a certain extent, the Tournament arc, I can sort of see the whole "get defeated - run - hide - heal - fight again - get defeated - run - hide - heal - repeat ad nauseam" shtick that has become par for the course with DBSuper happening again, but at least for the past two chapters and, from what I gather, at least the next few ones, Buu is a massive player in this arc. So, if only to see that happen, go read it.


    Also, gotta say, and that's something I've said for a long time, the fighting is way better in the manga. It's more creative, more Toriyama-like (and Toriyama-lite, too, of course). The anime feels like what people think DBZ fights are like, but. . .that's not really how Toriyama paced-crafted his fights, at all. The manga version is the most similar experience out of the two, even if it's still not stellar by a long shot.
    The reason why I like Moro is mostly because of the principles behind how he fights. He's not actually very strong, just uses abilities and trickery to his advantage. It's like if you combined Gero and King Piccolo, along with similarly to those two, also connecting him to some neat lore. (I always liked both the demon and Red Ribbon angles we got with both respectively, part of me dislikes it that Gero specifically got dropped so quickly because he was such a neat contrast to other villains and pretty crafty. I really dig that we got that type of antagonist as the main antagonist now in this arc with Moro.)

    On a purely character level outside of the story behind him, I think Moro's pretty basic, but I'm also giving leeway because of how large-scale and massive of a threat Moro seems to be presented and set up as and how it feels like this arc would be a longer one based on how he is being built up and that we do get more to him. He's like a more balanced version of King Piccolo because Gero's and King Piccolo's traits are sort of merged together. Arrogant, but not only arrogant. Smart, but not only smart, a balance of both.

    I hope this final wish he has gives him some more characterization, it's reveal won't quite lead to the end of the arc because of how big of a threat Moro has been set up as (I feel it would be off if he really went down just like that) and most importantly, the solution won't be just punching really hard again (which I can see could happen based on some details at the end of the chapter).

    I really do love the pretty airtight plotting this arc, though. Maybe some loose details like it taking Moro so long to find the Dragon Balls are iffy, but the most important stuff is explained and the source of tension (and mystery) being the Dragon Balls again is really cool and this is all coming from the manga, which I personally think up to the end of the previous arc was a really dull plot summary with no personality.

    Anyway, as far as action goes manga vs. anime, I think some of the ToP stuff (and later the Broly movie) is pretty inspired, before that stuff, I think it's all pretty bland, with occassionally nice-looking moments) and same goes for the manga before this arc. However, what I give to the manga is that the world outside the stuff we know in U7 feels much more like DB, in the anime it just occassionally feels like generic location X instead of fitting into the DB world in terms of design. Despite not focusing on worldbuilding much, I think DB's world does have specific design ideas.

    I like the Super anime, but the action was bland for a lot of the time.

    On another different note, I think Heroes has had some neat moments these past few episodes in terms of animation and direction. The newest episode (ep. 13) had some really kickass action. I recommend checking it out just for some fun eye candy.
    Last edited by Kizuchan; July 14th, 2019 at 08:41 AM.

  10. #4490

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by Md-Martin View Post

    He probably eats mayonnaise, sleeps, then ponders his existence.

    Considering he's among the last of his kind in the main universe makes sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  11. #4491

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Most gods in dragon Ball were chosen by their masters or peers, shin just happened to survive a monster and kill the old man with the leash.

    Guru had a planet to chose from, old earth god had garlic and kami, and kami sacrificed a ton to get the post, then dende was picked by the new god of namek.

    Then the zamazu incident put the apprenticeship of gods front and center, and that old man knew to disown the prick. Goku and Vegeta are being groomed for the post of god of destruction, but shin and the elder are just not trying.

    I bet shin killed the other gods that should have arisen in the time that Buu sleept. To keep the universe on road to Oblivion.
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  12. #4492

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by Md-Martin View Post
    so they let him keep doing it while dead?
    Not surprising since King Kai is the most competent deity in Universe 7 by a huge margin.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by maxterdexter View Post
    shin and the elder are just not trying.
    They don't even have to look far; pretty much all of the decent candidates for either position are on Earth.

    I still think Piccolo and Seventeen as Supreme Kai and God of Destruction would be the best possible outcome for Universe 7.
    Complicating things since 2009.

  13. #4493

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Back when it seemed like Beerus might actually be a serious deal at some point, I thought maybe Vegeta would find out HE was the one that order Frieza to blow up his planet and then they'd have to have it out, ending with vegeta becoming the new god of destruction.... but actually that really doesnt suit him anymore.
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  14. #4494
    Under The Bridge Ageless_Bum's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    So I have been trying to figure out what the current third wish might be other than the expected immortality that everyone seems to want (seriously?). There are a lot of interesting potentials, but one that came to mind was what if he resurrected evil buu? Wouldn't make any sense, but could be a fun situation.
    Life flows on. I'd just go with it if I were me.

  15. #4495

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Back when it seemed like Beerus might actually be a serious deal at some point, I thought maybe Vegeta would find out HE was the one that order Frieza to blow up his planet and then they'd have to have it out, ending with vegeta becoming the new god of destruction.... but actually that really doesnt suit him anymore.
    Wouldn't that had required Vegeta to actually give a damn about his people which we knew by him murdering Nappa he didn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    Not surprising since King Kai is the most competent deity in Universe 7 by a huge margin.
    The same King Kai who tried to talk Piccolo out of going to Namek something that would've actually had been a bad idea?


    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I still think Piccolo and Seventeen as Supreme Kai and God of Destruction would be the best possible outcome for Universe 7.
    They're already serving effectively useless roles. But I guess the difference here is prestige.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
    3DS Friend Code 0044-2806-5284




  16. #4496

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    The same King Kai who tried to talk Piccolo out of going to Namek something that would've actually had been a bad idea?
    His rivals for that position are Shin, Beerus, and Kami.
    Complicating things since 2009.

  17. #4497

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    His rivals for that position are Shin, Beerus, and Kami.
    Well shit that's that's like having to choose between eating dirt, ash, paint, or licorice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
    3DS Friend Code 0044-2806-5284




  18. #4498

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    Wouldn't that had required Vegeta to actually give a damn about his people which we knew by him murdering Nappa he didn't?
    You know, for a guy who supposedly took great pride in his race, he sure never gave a shit about any of them.

    Or, I dunno, maybe it was his nobility he took pride in.

  19. #4499

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobodyman View Post
    You know, for a guy who supposedly took great pride in his race, he sure never gave a shit about any of them.

    Or, I dunno, maybe it was his nobility he took pride in.
    It was pride in himself which is why he lost his shit every time someone upstaged him or whooped the ass.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
    3DS Friend Code 0044-2806-5284




  20. #4500

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    That's why the whole idea of people wanting him to finally get a win against Freeza that I see around has been wierd to me.

    His idea of wanting revenge has always been sort of selfish and one thing that has been going on with him has been letting go and moving on.

    The ways this idea about getting his win against Freeza I think could work would have to involve a selfless reasoning, not about his grudge, but protection or wishing to stop him because he's evil and a danger to the whole world (like he did in the Broly movie).

    But I so often see the idea of "Vegeta should get the win to avenge his race" and that's odd and kind of missing the point to me.

    Vegeta never cared about the Saiyans. It's all his own ego-stroking for the longest time until he starts to actually care about others. Right now, I think he might probably actually be okay with not reviving the Saiyans because of moral reasons (they were a huge danger to the universe), not just because he doesn't care.

    But his whole plea to Goku on Namek was about pride and dignity, which Goku could understand and which is some very interesting character depth, from what I get, the old English dub made Vegeta's deal marginally less interesting and made him a victim only instead of him also being a villain and this is where this constant misread of his character comes from.

    Part of his arc, up to teaching Cabba, might actually also be that he cares more now, too, but at first he definitely didn't at all. This is even really clearly spelled out in the Broly movie.

    His plea on Namek was sort of the point where he showed the most care in that Freeza stole away the Saiyans' freedom and dignity and Vegeta asked a Saiyan, Goku, to defeat Freeza in his stead. It's almost contradictory even back then if you think about it.
    Last edited by Kizuchan; July 17th, 2019 at 01:04 AM.

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