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Thread: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

  1. #981

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Well, risking being dismissive here, but they started with "I didn't read what she wrote, just skimmed through the responses". That pretty much said everything we needed to know. It's basically saying "I don't care what she said, I just have a problem with the people who call it out".


    Anyways, the whole JK controversy became a thing a good time ago involving big feminist activists from both sides (meaning the ones who supported transfeminism and the ones who didn't, to put it mildly). It was not simply shutting someone up because she had a dissenting voice ("dissenting" in that weird sense that is usually used around the internet, which means "agreeing with the actual majority"), it was an on-going discussion where arguments from both were always explained and made clear abundantly. JK Rowling is not an ignorant person with notions derived from lack of proper information.
    Going to the responses of a myriad of random people on the internet who just reply thoughtlessly on twitter (be supporters or detractors, they all do it by the hundreds) is just ignoring the actual picture and focusing on that fragment that supports a previously conceived notion, the controversy nothing but an excuse to validate it.

  2. #982
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    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon Rin View Post
    I just love how it's only "Cancel Culture" when "Woke" people do it, but Conservatives can do it as much as they want and nobody ever calls it "Cancel Culture".
    Par for the course with conservativism. They do this same thing with the issue of "being offended". They claim that it's just liberal snowflakes who are always offended by everything, but then they're told "Happy Holidays" or see a same-sex couple in media and flip out.

    Actually I'm tired of conservatives trying to strawman everything into being about "being offended", but that's another discussion.

    In terms of cancel culture, yeah... I've seen a couple of Animal Crossing/Nintendo Youtubers (one who is a vocal Trump supporter and has said disgusting things on his Twitter, another one who is a very homophobic Christian who has actually banned gay people from her Discord for being gay) get criticized for their beliefs and words and immediately there's discussions of "Cancel culture has gone too far" and I'm just confused. Is it not our right to avoid giving bad people attention and views?

    Turns out being a bad person has consequences. That is our voice. Our right. If they lose views/fame/whatever, that's on them.

    What this really comes down to are bigots wanting their views to be normalized.


  3. #983

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    What on earth makes you think she's open minded and waiting to hear some info from reasonable internet people.

    This is just extremely naive.
    Who said anything about her being open minded?

    The problem is that people like Rowling latch onto the people telling her to "fuck off" and use that as a window of opprotunity.

    "Oh look at these people who won't be open to any form of discourse!!!".

    The less people that do that, the less chance people will be able try and sympathize through so-called censorship. And the less she'll be able to bullshit her way through it because you'll see no actual cases of that so called "suppression".

    Much like how no one can actually pin violent video games on shooters because of incredibly rare they actually correlate.

    The best way to beat her is to stay on the actual high road and condemn those who are just going "stfu" because it just isn't helping.



  4. #984

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    The hell is cancel culture?

  5. #985

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    The hell is cancel culture?
    The new "political correctness!!"

  6. #986

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon Rin View Post
    I just love how it's only "Cancel Culture" when "Woke" people do it, but Conservatives can do it as much as they want and nobody ever calls it "Cancel Culture".
    When conservatives do cancel culture is called upholding traditional moral values.

  7. #987

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    No one talks about any of those "cancellations" before 2000 because most people aren't old enough to remember let alone even think to look up that stuff.

    Also, missing a major important factor.

    The rise of social media and the Internet. Particularly the festing hole that is Twitter.

    With the increased rise of people fighting for marginalized groups and the focus on the progressive side in today's media, there is also an increased rise of people who will take that shit way to far.

    Like Skai Jackson thinking its ok to reveal the personal information of teenagers some as young as 14, including phone numbers and what school they go to, on her Twitter with over 500k followers because they made an edgy.

    It's noticeable because it hurts the idea of tolerance but are trying to screw people over for minor shit a lot of time and calling it "accountability".

    It's fine for something like Shane Dawson. But a random 15 year old Smash kid because he made an edgy joke in a private discord chat a year prior? Come on.



  8. #988

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    I'm trans and mostly liberal and I know cancel culture exists. People getting offended by little things, it's dumb and annoying. If you don't like something change the channel or not buy the product. Simple as that.

    Hell, I'm fine with trans jokes and don't care if a trans actor plays a trans character for some examples with me being a minority. I don't feel oppressed by it.

    I think people calling out names on people because you disagree with is wrong. Instead provide actual criticism and factual information to them, if they don't listen, than fuck them. That's what I learned through my years since I transitioned back in 2012 and I faced a lot of discrimination.

  9. #989

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Quote Originally Posted by KzTxL7 View Post
    Like Skai Jackson thinking its ok to reveal the personal information of teenagers some as young as 14, including phone numbers and what school they go to, on her Twitter with over 500k followers because they made an edgy.
    One thing real quick:

    1: "Made an Edgy" in this case means "Made a racist". The N-Word is never ok to say.

    2: She herself is only 18.

    3: Yeah she might have gone too far with this one, that's not ok.

    4: she received criticism from both sides for it and apologized.

    5: There's no evidence anyone actually did anything to harm the kid or his family.


    Quote Originally Posted by starlalilymoon View Post
    I'm trans and mostly liberal and I know cancel culture exists. People getting offended by little things, it's dumb and annoying. If you don't like something change the channel or not buy the product. Simple as that.

    Hell, I'm fine with trans jokes and don't care if a trans actor plays a trans character for some examples with me being a minority. I don't feel oppressed by it.

    I think people calling out names on people because you disagree with is wrong. Instead provide actual criticism and factual information to them, if they don't listen, than fuck them. That's what I learned through my years since I transitioned back in 2012 and I faced a lot of discrimination.
    And that's wonderful FOR YOU.

    You can choose to take issue with whatever you want or not be "Offended" by whatever you want. You don't speak for all trans people.

    You've also said you're stealth, which means you might have passing privilege meaning you CAN just kinda ignore transphobia. There are plenty of folks out there who don't and for them, the stuff that "Doesn't offend you" is a serious thing they deal with every day.

    Rhetoric like the stuff we're talking about right now gets my Ciswoman friend called out in bathrooms constantly because she looks a little too masculine for some people and they think she might be "A trans" and try to kick her out of bathrooms.

    People aren't complaining about nothing.
    Last edited by Demon Rin; July 8th, 2020 at 05:01 PM.

    Switch Friend Code: SW-1795-2519-1884 Click Here to check out my Twitch Channel

  10. #990

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon Rin View Post
    1: "Made an Edgy" in this case means "Made a racist". The N-Word is never ok to say.
    It's just a word. Black people call themselves n*****s all the time; I know this because I have black friends. It can racist when people use it in a way to look down on another person like calling them directly.

    In other words, I call myself a tranny all the time, and I don't care if other people use it. It's just a word. Sometimes people use slurs to shitpost, etc. Doesn't mean they are actually being racist or transphobic, etc. Especially on Discord.

    Yeah, shocking stuff coming from me, a trans girl.

  11. #991

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon Rin View Post
    One thing real quick:

    1: "Made an Edgy" in this case means "Made a racist". The N-Word is never ok to say.

    2: She herself is only 18.

    3: Yeah she might have gone too far with this one, that's not ok.

    4: she received criticism from both sides for it and apologized.

    5: There's no evidence anyone actually did anything to harm the kid or his family.
    1.The word is never OK and yet it's in rap music, Boondocks (which I found hilarious), and out on the streets on a regular basis. If kids say it in private, then it should be none of our business. Let their parents and people close to them handle it.

    2. 18 means she's an adult now right? Like, potential legal repercussions adult now.

    3. Not a might.

    4. Good.

    5. While I don't think anyone did anything physical, they definitely sent hateful messages to at least one of those kids.

    Also, it should work both ways. People who are "offended" shouldn't make decisions/speak for people who aren't offended then.



  12. #992

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon Rin View Post
    And that's wonderful FOR YOU.

    You can choose to take issue with whatever you want or not be "Offended" by whatever you want. You don't speak for all trans people.
    Okay. You don't speak for all trans people either.

    You've also said you're stealth, which means you might have passing privilege meaning you CAN just kinda ignore transphobia. There are plenty of folks out there who don't and for them, the stuff that "Doesn't offend you" is a serious thing they deal with every day.
    So, my argument is invalid because of privilege? That's dumb. My voice sounds male-like so some can tell if I'm trans. I don't pass 100% either.

    Rhetoric like the stuff we're talking about right now gets my Ciswoman friend called out in bathrooms constantly because she looks a little too masculine for some people and they think she might be "A trans" and try to kick her out of bathrooms.
    What I'm talking about is completely different than to that. You making a strawman fallacy...

    People aren't complaining about nothing.
    The point still stands. Don't let people get to you, and I know plenty of other trans folk that get annoyed by the sensitive ones.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by KzTxL7 View Post
    Also, it should work both ways. People who are "offended" shouldn't make decisions/speak for people who aren't offended then.
    I agree with this 100%.

  13. #993

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    I'm ducking out. I'm dealing with "But I have some black friends!" and "But why do Black people get to say the hateful slur directed at black people?!" levels of ignorance and I'm not ready to have a whole discussion about reclaiming slurs.

    Have a good one edgelords.

    Switch Friend Code: SW-1795-2519-1884 Click Here to check out my Twitch Channel

  14. #994

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    I pity Demon Rin. It's that image of playing chess with a pigeon all over.

  15. #995

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon Rin View Post
    I'm ducking out. I'm dealing with "But I have some black friends!" and "But why do Black people get to say the hateful slur directed at black people?!" levels of ignorance and I'm not ready to have a whole discussion about reclaiming slurs.

    Have a good one edgelords.
    Thanks for discussing it with me. I just agree to disagree with ya. You got your viewpoints and I got mine. So, compromise!

  16. #996

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    I get the feeling that the conversation on "cancel culture" being a thing and the Rowling situation are entirely different and should not be overlapped.

    Yes, there is indeed damage done from a blind, angry mob on twitter jumping on people who they perceive are oppressors or abusers whether or not it's their business. There's also obviously problems from people coming down on pseudo-celebrities like young streamers for having a stupid opinion when they were kids in attempts to destroy their platform and career. That's "cancel" culture because there is actually a possibility of cancelling these individuals and completely deleting them from the map.

    Rowling's case is not this. Rowling is an individual with high amounts of power, money and influence and there is zero way that this will take her platform away. It is acceptable and good practice for other companies and personalities to distance themselves from her if they do not agree with what she has to say, but there is no reality to the concept that twitter justice mobs will silence her or deny her her rights, as much as they may want to. It's like saying President Trump is a victim of cancel culture because late night shows and twitter trolls constantly mock his comments and fuck-ups. You know, like that could ever threaten his ability to say bullshit.

    Giving people like Rowling the room for doubt and discourse is also significantly harmful, as it threatens to normalize and legitimize their views as proper opinions that one could hold.
    Then we talk about free speech, and I know america likes to blast freedom of speech on 11 volume and how that's the most important thing, but that's not the case here. If you use your speech and your platform to espouse misinformation and harmful views you are not free from repercussion. In fact, I would argue it's more harmful to freedom of speech to suggest that we cannot denounce misinformed and extremist views because of others having a right to them, since this is what actually completely shuts down discourse: it's nonsense to me that someone could spout hateful garbage and then refuse to be educated because of "having a right" to hold a shit opinion.

    Regarding the hate from twitter being the problem: yes, it is, but Rowling CHOSE this platform. This is not a platform for discourse or conversation: it's a soapbox. She intentionally chose a platform where she could shout her perspective to the world without providing equal opportunity to people who disagree to hold an equal voice, since HER voice goes out to thousands of people by virtue of her fame. The sheer imbalance of these means there cannot be a proper conversation.

    I get where people are going with "everyone has a right to their opinion and beliefs", but there's a line to every freedom. And that line is when that freedom crosses over into the freedom and safety of others. If Rowling uses her freedom to threaten the freedom of others by attaching misinformation and boogeyman arguments to their reality, she's very clearly threatening their freedom. Within her very post she was arguing for stricter access to transition hormones AND bathroom restrictions for trans folk... there is zero room for doubt that her comments are directly going to lead to difficulties for trans folk in her country, and that to me is the line where any respect for her "freedom" to have an opinion dies.

  17. #997

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Quote Originally Posted by .access timeco. View Post
    I pity Demon Rin. It's that image of playing chess with a pigeon all over.
    I never seen that image lool

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Noqanky View Post
    I get the feeling that the conversation on "cancel culture" being a thing and the Rowling situation are entirely different and should not be overlapped.
    Yeahhhhh I agree with that. I changed the topic to that, so it's my bad.

    I get where people are going with "everyone has a right to their opinion and beliefs", but there's a line to every freedom. And that line is when that freedom crosses over into the freedom and safety of others. If Rowling uses her freedom to threaten the freedom of others by attaching misinformation and boogeyman arguments to their reality, she's very clearly threatening their freedom. Within her very post she was arguing for stricter access to transition hormones AND bathroom restrictions for trans folk... there is zero room for doubt that her comments are directly going to lead to difficulties for trans folk in her country, and that to me is the line where any respect for her "freedom" to have an opinion dies.
    I understand. What you say does not invalid people's reactions or feedback or criticism. It be no different if I go to a group of black folks and scream the n word. That's just calling me to get beat up.

    Honestly, I can't really seeing where she lives actually follow up what she says. The UK is a pretty liberal country, and unless J.K. Rowling gets in a position of power then that be cause for worry, but otherwise I don't care. I just agree to disagree. Thanks for sharing your viewpoints and feed back.

  18. #998

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Quote Originally Posted by starlalilymoon View Post
    Honestly, I can't really seeing where she lives actually follow up what she says. The UK is a pretty liberal country, and unless J.K. Rowling gets in a position of power then that be cause for worry, but otherwise I don't care. I just agree to disagree. Thanks for sharing your viewpoints and feed back.
    The UK is actually known for having a pretty strong TERF movement, which is where Rowling got all these stupid ideas and fears. If anything, someone of her stature is likely to increase their numbers in the country and severely harm legislation that seeks to provide more opportunities and safety for trans women.

    You can disagree all you want, but realities like that don't change. Unfortunately the world won't wait to see which opinion is right, it will just behave according to hard truths and realities whether people understand them or not.

  19. #999

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Quote Originally Posted by Noqanky View Post
    The UK is actually known for having a pretty strong TERF movement, which is where Rowling got all these stupid ideas and fears. If anything, someone of her stature is likely to increase their numbers in the country and severely harm legislation that seeks to provide more opportunities and safety for trans women.

    You can disagree all you want, but realities like that don't change. Unfortunately the world won't wait to see which opinion is right, it will just behave according to hard truths and realities whether people understand them or not.
    Oh, I see. I didn't know they had a big TERF movement, and I gotcha. I understand the concept even if I disagree. Thanks for explaining to me about it and it's nice to see a different viewpoint about this topic.

    Honestly, I think if we want equality for us, we just have to outnumber the people that believe in false statements. Maybe one of these days I try to be activist and help with trans and other minority rights. The more people we convert, the more we can ourselves make legislation and laws be changed.

  20. #1000

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    It's as you say, Rowling is in no danger of actually being silenced by the twitter mobs. She's too big.

    However both her and Trump don't need to be threatened. They only need to "appear" like they trying to be silenced for it to work in their favor. As going by Rowling's twitter, a lot of the people who are supporting her seem to be glad that she is "standing up against being silenced".

    So you're right in that it's important to not allow her views to be normalized but just that feeling that she's being censored is enough to spur support for her. It's kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't. I would ultimately prefer the discourse solution because at least the more intelligent side can actually put out actual life experiences and actual data and actual truthful information so hopefully people can get the right idea.

    I can understand even moreso why America is afraid of censorship with big boogeyman China around the corner. *cough*Blitzchung*cough*.



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