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Thread: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

  1. #961

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    As a public figure she should show some restrain of thought before speaking her mind freely, her words reach further and louder than most so they should have more accountability for what they public say.
    Any public figure endorsing discriminatory speech should be shamed for it, given the opportunity to know better and be better and if they refuse or don't change their mind, be ignored and ostracized.

  2. #962

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    We either die a hero ( manipulative old folks, who never trusted the people who they send to die, or abusive double agent incel) or live long enough to become an Umbridge.
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  3. #963

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    My take on the Rowling controversy:
    I think J.K. Rowling should have the right to her viewpoints even if I disagree with them 100%. Though she should be open to criticism. Honestly, us trans people shouldn't let negative people's opinions about us control how we act in life. Though it's easier said that done, even for me, as I'm in stealth and don't want people to know.

    I think if we want change to happen we must educate the ones who believe in false beliefs like J.K. If they can't listen to us we move on. I think it's important to try to educate as many people as possible, but do it in a way where they will understand it. Being transgender even to this day is pretty foreign. I'm always open myself to people asking questions as they will understand. Though sometimes some people won't get it, and so we just need to ignore those people and focus on the positive.

    To be honest, I had a friend who did not believe in transgenderism, but we came to a compromise where as long as he respected my pronouns, I was all good, and he did just that. I think sometimes in life we might have to bite the bullet and realize that everyone is gonna believe in facts, and have to accept that. I still will read Rowling's books because I like the books for books, even if the writer has... some beliefs I disagree with completely. This is just my whole take on the whole Rowling thing.

    My take on getting access to hormones:
    Though I guess I'm the lucky one here, but I never had to go through lots of therapy to get my hormones. I got it on the first day I saw the doctor. Though a person I worked with who was trans herself helped me get that doctor, so maybe that's why I got it easier than most. I think if someone says they are of the opposite gender that they identify, they are most likely telling the truth and shouldn't have to get hormones in such difficult ways lasting for months.

    Edit: I want to correct myself here. I don't think children should get access to hormones extremely easily. I think they should wait and be on hormone blockers till they make a decision when they are at least 16+. But for people 16+ they should have no problem in getting hormones since by that age you already start to know who you are, mostly anyway.
    Last edited by starlalilymoon; July 7th, 2020 at 02:38 PM.

  4. #964

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Quote Originally Posted by starlalilymoon View Post
    My take on the Rowling controversy:
    I think J.K. Rowling should have the right to her viewpoints even if I disagree with them 100%. Though she should be open to criticism. Honestly, us trans people shouldn't let negative people's opinions about us control how we act in life. Though it's easier said that done, even for me, as I'm in stealth and don't want people to know.
    I hate the line of reasoning that takes time out to be like "She's got a right to her viewpoints".

    Nobody has the desire or ability to actually strip her of her "Right" to her viewpoint.

    Like seriously. She's a very rich very famous author, and despite her efforts to be as shitty as possible, still very beloved to a lot of people. Yes some companies may think twice about letting her use their platform to spout hate, but she's never going to hurt for OTHER platforms that will bend over backwards to accommodate her.

    This is just another case of "The mean bad thought police are trying to silence me!" being a smokescreen for dismissing valid criticism.

    It's basically this:

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  5. #965

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon Rin View Post
    I hate the line of reasoning that takes time out to be like "She's got a right to her viewpoints".

    Nobody has the desire or ability to actually strip her of her "Right" to her viewpoint.

    Like seriously. She's a very rich very famous author, and despite her efforts to be as shitty as possible, still very beloved to a lot of people. Yes some companies may think twice about letting her use their platform to spout hate, but she's never going to hurt for OTHER platforms that will bend over backwards to accommodate her.

    This is just another case of "The mean bad thought police are trying to silence me!" being a smokescreen for dismissing valid criticism.
    I more-or-less agree with this.

    Rowling fails to understand why people are being particularly affected by her takes. This isn't just an instance of a random TERF spouting non-sense online and people deciding from there whether she's right or wrong... instead, it's a case of a woman with a significant amount of influence and power spouting non-sense that thousands of people will take at face value because of it being her, whether the information is right or not.

    THAT, to me, is what makes her actions reprehensible and extremely questionable, as well as subject to ire from social media. We can't just say "I disagree with you, but your opinion is fine" because this fails to raise the appropriate flags of how dangerous her misinformation is and lack of outcry would also mean a ton of people would assume she's ok to believe those things. And a ton of those people will in turn support action and legislation that directly harms transgender people.
    I would place it at a similar level as anti-vaxxer celebrities: it's fine for you to be stupid as shit, but it crosses a line when your stupidity feeds misinformation to an audience that will accept your idiocy as truth, and which in turn causes harm to the non-stupid people of the world by proxy of the idiots that will now directly and indirectly harm them.

    The part where I hesitate to agree is that the sad reality is that there ARE people who are probably harassing her with the goal of denying her her viewpoint. Though to me that's also on Rowling for choosing that platform.
    To me the stupidity in this is believing that putting things on twitter is a valid form of discourse and conversation, since what winds up happening is that instead it just lead to blind mobs that seek to coerce for one side or the other. However legitimate it is to criticize Rowling stops mattering, because to her it's no longer "sane" people criticizing her views. To her it's a blind twitter mob that's harassing and sending death threats for what she believes to be blind agreement to social justice standards. Even in her huge post about the topic, you can tell that this is what pushed her over the edge from liking and agreeing with random TERFs to outright being a spoke person for their bullshit.

  6. #966

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    It is not people are "probably" harassing her with the goal of denying her viewpoint. They are.

    It is not that she "believes" to be blind agreement to social justice standards. There is.

    I don't really read what she writes but skimming down her Twitter responses a good majority of the opposition is just "Shut the fuck up" and just calling her "transphobe".

    Obviously part of the problem is Twitter in general just being a terrible social media platform.

    But let's not ignore the reality the cancer that is cancel culture/"woke" crowds with give a lot of credibility to her "beliefs". Many of them don't want to fight misinformation with proper information.



  7. #967

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Note: If I offended anyone I apologize. As a trans person I just tend to hold different beliefs about things that relate to who I am.

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon Rin View Post
    I hate the line of reasoning that takes time out to be like "She's got a right to her viewpoints".

    Nobody has the desire or ability to actually strip her of her "Right" to her viewpoint.
    Well, some posts here were like that just because she's "famous. Even famous people should have their right to their opinion and not just agree with everyone else going against their viewpoints even if they are ones that are false. I feel like people have the right to speak their mind, honestly.

    Like seriously. She's a very rich very famous author, and despite her efforts to be as shitty as possible, still very beloved to a lot of people. Yes some companies may think twice about letting her use their platform to spout hate, but she's never going to hurt for OTHER platforms that will bend over backwards to accommodate her.
    Yeah, so? I'm not sure where you going for this. She's not out to get trans people, she just is misinformed about it. I'm trans you know, and I just disagree with how people are reacting to her.

    This is just another case of "The mean bad thought police are trying to silence me!" being a smokescreen for dismissing valid criticism.

    It's basically this:
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcXW6iPU...png&name=large
    But that's how it feels like in this thread, people want her to be silent and not speak her own opinion. Even if one has criticism, doesn't mean the person has to agree with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noqanky View Post
    Rowling fails to understand why people are being particularly affected by her takes. This isn't just an instance of a random TERF spouting non-sense online and people deciding from there whether she's right or wrong... instead, it's a case of a woman with a significant amount of influence and power spouting non-sense that thousands of people will take at face value because of it being her, whether the information is right or not.
    Yeah, but like I mentioned even famous people deserve their right to speak their mind even if it is not the most popular opinion.

    THAT, to me, is what makes her actions reprehensible and extremely questionable, as well as subject to ire from social media. We can't just say "I disagree with you, but your opinion is fine" because this fails to raise the appropriate flags of how dangerous her misinformation is and lack of outcry would also mean a ton of people would assume she's ok to believe those things. And a ton of those people will in turn support action and legislation that directly harms transgender people.
    As a trans person myself, I do not see this happening. I think that's looking too much into things. I feel like she has the right to believe what she believes in, it's not like she's calling out to people to change legislation.

    Plus, even with legislation in place, there still be discrimination. I know because I moved here to my city that has transgender protections, but yet I got misgendered by many customers who treated me like a man and not a woman. I'm too scared of being an activist even for anything because of this fear that will increase my dysphoria with news outlets misgendering me. The problem for me is society itself and not an individual person.

    I would place it at a similar level as anti-vaxxer celebrities: it's fine for you to be stupid as shit, but it crosses a line when your stupidity feeds misinformation to an audience that will accept your idiocy as truth, and which in turn causes harm to the non-stupid people of the world by proxy of the idiots that will now directly and indirectly harm them.
    I disagree. It's their opinion, they have the right to be themselves even if it is toxic. Plus, they lost a lot of fans too because of said toxic beliefs, I believe. I hate people that spread false beliefs, but I refuse to deny them their right to express their stupid beliefs no matter who they are. It's better to try to educate people the best way we can, but it's easier said than done.

    The part where I hesitate to agree is that the sad reality is that there ARE people who are probably harassing her with the goal of denying her her viewpoint. Though to me that's also on Rowling for choosing that platform.
    Well, I was mainly talking about in this thread in general. That's how it felt like to me.

    To me the stupidity in this is believing that putting things on twitter is a valid form of discourse and conversation, since what winds up happening is that instead it just lead to blind mobs that seek to coerce for one side or the other. However legitimate it is to criticize Rowling stops mattering, because to her it's no longer "sane" people criticizing her views. To her it's a blind twitter mob that's harassing and sending death threats for what she believes to be blind agreement to social justice standards. Even in her huge post about the topic, you can tell that this is what pushed her over the edge from liking and agreeing with random TERFs to outright being a spoke person for their bullshit.
    Yeah, that really sucks. >_<

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by KzTxL7 View Post
    It is not people are "probably" harassing her with the goal of denying her viewpoint. They are.

    It is not that she "believes" to be blind agreement to social justice standards. There is.

    I don't really read what she writes but skimming down her Twitter responses a good majority of the opposition is just "Shut the fuck up" and just calling her "transphobe".

    Obviously part of the problem is Twitter in general just being a terrible social media platform.

    But let's not ignore the reality the cancer that is cancel culture/"woke" crowds with give a lot of credibility to her "beliefs". Many of them don't want to fight misinformation with proper information.
    Thank you! I hate cancel culture! It's fucking bullshit! I hate censorship in general, and it annoys me that people want to cancel stuff because it's "offensive." I agree with you that if you really want to make a difference you got to fight misinformation with proper information, which is what I mentioned in one of my previous posts.

  8. #968

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    there's also the clear problem of her hypocritical way of action, I defend my right to free speech with out accountability for way I say, but there not disagree with me. Just like the case last week, Stephen King like a post of hers, she made a tweet to celebrate what she thought having an endorsement from peers on her views, some on asked if King thins trans woman are woman, he said yes, she deleted her tweet a blocked King (I think).

  9. #969

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Quote Originally Posted by pariston_hill View Post
    Um.... she literally got attacked by some random person saying she cannot be trusted around children.... That's just wrong. Though the lawyer stuff yeah is a bit drastic, but she does not want to be harassed, so I get where she is coming from, even if that's a bit too much. Yeah, it can seem hypocritical of her with the free speech thing, but when people get harassed they need to protect themselves.

  10. #970

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    "Rowling can longer be trusted around children" can easily be misrepresented to sound like she has pedophile-like qualities.

    At which point I can fully understand why someone would get legal matters involved if your going to make claims like that.



  11. #971

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Quote Originally Posted by KzTxL7 View Post
    "Rowling can longer be trusted around children" can easily be misrepresented to sound like she has pedophile-like qualities.

    At which point I can fully understand why someone would get legal matters involved if your going to make claims like that.
    Yeah, exactly. It's slander basically.

  12. #972

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Cancel culture is in full swing, but the cast of the movie and her peers are people who wouldn't say "die you terf scum" to her face and she still doubled down.

    If the twitter horde is pressuring to think something, there is bound to be pushback, but if that same thing happens with someone that I respect, it's going to hurt.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    She can have those oppinions? I guess, I'd rather if she understood what she's saying, and the damage vs "good" that she is doing. Is not like she's selling a vaccine alternative, kepping the antivaxx narrative, or she's bound to get support or publicity on her future writings.
    She can get by without aggression and insults? I'd rather if she wasn't targeted for abuse.
    She can go unchallenged and unopposed? Hell no. Every tweet should have a short version and the full article that disproves her, and that's it.
    She still has my admiration and support? Nope.
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  13. #973

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    She is entitled to her hateful views? Yes, I guess.
    She is entitled to share said views on public and expect no negative repercussion? No, that's preposterous.
    Two basic facts about freedom of speech that those that what to share racism, prejudice and hate. Freedom of speech comes with accountability for what you say; and freedom of speech does not tolerate intolerance.
    Remember the last time those tow principals were left unchecked, I believe it was during the rise and fall of one Adolf H.

  14. #974

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Ugh... "Cancel Culture" isn't really a thing.

    It's just people criticizing people for their bad behavior and some opportunistic cyberbully trolls injecting themselves into the discourse like they do for everything online.

    Right now you can't say "I don't like Zack Snyder's DC Movies" on twitter without attracting an army of cyberbully trolls.

    They suck, they're awful, I don't condone or agree with what they're doing in any way, especially the ones who do death threats. That shit is vile no matter where it comes from, but "Cancel Culture" as it's commonly believed to be isn't real.

    Nobody who gets "Cancel Cultured" is ever actually really silenced.

    Go to JK Rowling's twitter right now and look at the newest tweet about this and it's 75% people hugboxing her telling her how amazing and brave she is for standing up to the mean icky transes, 20% respectful disagreement and callouts, the worst of which I've seen was just "You're a transphobe", "Defund JK Rowling" and "Ok Karen". and the other 5%, which might be generous because I could only find two. Literally Two Posts that were just images of memes that said some form of "Fuck JK Rowling".

    The Majority of the posts from people on the Pro-Trans side are legitimately trying to educate her. Explaining how the rate of detransition she seems to think is the norm is misrepresented, citing studies and facts. Asking her to listen to trans people. Saying that they're disappointed in her.

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  15. #975
    Voici La Chévre Wagomu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Quote Originally Posted by KzTxL7 View Post
    It is not people are "probably" harassing her with the goal of denying her viewpoint. They are.

    It is not that she "believes" to be blind agreement to social justice standards. There is.

    I don't really read what she writes but skimming down her Twitter responses a good majority of the opposition is just "Shut the fuck up" and just calling her "transphobe".

    Obviously part of the problem is Twitter in general just being a terrible social media platform.

    But let's not ignore the reality the cancer that is cancel culture/"woke" crowds with give a lot of credibility to her "beliefs". Many of them don't want to fight misinformation with proper information.
    When a popular public figure is using their platform to spread hate and misinformation I think "shut the fuck up" is a perfectly reasonable response.

    Much like how when a person is being transphobic, "transphobe" is an accurate descriptor.

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  16. #976

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Quote Originally Posted by Wagomu View Post
    When a popular public figure is using their platform to spread hate and misinformation I think "shut the fuck up" is a perfectly reasonable response.

    Much like how when a person is being transphobic, "transphobe" is an accurate descriptor.
    And when people see a bunch of replies that amount to just saying "shut the fuck up" and "transphobe" insteade of responding with actual correct information then don't be surprised when people talk about being "silenced" and wonder why this country has an increasing divide.

    Answering idiocy with dismissive comments doesn't help.



  17. #977
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    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    I'm pretty sure a lot of people offered legitimate information on trans issues. Over and over again, as they are wont to do. Rowling doesn't actually seem to listen and instead chooses to be trapped in an echo chamber of misinformation and misrepresentation.

    The problem I see with it is that spreading misinformation doesn't really hurt the spreadee but can do damage to actual transpeople. With the scales this unbalanced, it's hard having an actual conversation without one side acknowledging its inherent priviledge of not having its members' mere existence questioned constantly.


  18. #978

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Ok, so this is a tone policing thing.

    It's a common thing with minority issues. The oppressors can be as mean and horrible as they want and nobody bats an eye but as soon as the Minority group can't take it anymore and snaps and says something that can be construed as "Mean" they're automatically the problem and need to cut that shit out.

    "You are fucking blackface actors. You aren't women. You're men who gt sexual kicks from being treated like women. fuck you and your dirty fucking perversions. Our oppression isn't a fetish you pathetic, sick, fuck."

    "George Soros and his globalist cabal are funding the Trans lobby to silence feminists and further the patriarcy's shadow government."

    -- Valid viewpoints that we have to respect and you aren't allowed to criticize.


    "Fuck off Transphobe"

    -- Too far apparently.



    I also like when people seem to think "Cancel Culture" as it's commonly complained about is both:

    A: New
    and
    B: Specifically about "Woke" Stuff.

    Remember in the 20s when the media "Cancelled" Fatty Arbuckle due to scandals?
    Remember in the 60s when the Religious right tried to "Cancel" The Beatles because John made a benign comment about Jesus?
    Remember in the 2000s when conservatives "Cancelled" the Dixie Chicks for saying they didn't like Bush?
    Remember in 2014 when Gamers™ "Cancelled" a bunch of feminists for saying things they didn't like about video games?
    Remember in 2016 when Conservatives "Cancelled" Colin Kaepernick for silently kneeling during a football game?
    Remember in 2017 when conservatives "Cancelled" Kathy Griffith for an edgy photo of her holding up a Trump Effigy?

    I picked a bunch of drastically different situations on purpose to make a point. Some of these are benign and the person shouldn't have been "Cancelled" like the Beatles or the Dixie Chicks while one was the kind of actual full-blown harassment campaign people like Rowling are trying to pretend Trans people are.

    You know what none of them ever get called tho?

    Cancel Culture.

    I just love how it's only "Cancel Culture" when "Woke" people do it, but Conservatives can do it as much as they want and nobody ever calls it "Cancel Culture".

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  19. #979

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Quote Originally Posted by KzTxL7 View Post
    And when people see a bunch of replies that amount to just saying "shut the fuck up" and "transphobe" insteade of responding with actual correct information then don't be surprised when people talk about being "silenced" and wonder why this country has an increasing divide.

    Answering idiocy with dismissive comments doesn't help.
    What on earth makes you think she's open minded and waiting to hear some info from reasonable internet people.

    This is just extremely naive.

  20. #980

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    There have already been right-wing politicians and pundits using Rowling's statements and essay as "proof" to fight pro-trans legislation ("even the left wing activist agrees that..."). So the idea that her words are harmless is blatantly false.

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