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Thread: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

  1. #881
    The Moustache Bandit Nolus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Quote Originally Posted by Wagomu View Post
    Yeah, a lot of popular venues for online dating don't do well by queer relationships. OKCupid does have a decent-sized queer userbase, though, so if you haven't tried it, then maybe you'll find some more success there.

    As for trying to break out of the mold for relationships, it's definitely a tough thing to do. A lot of our cultural engagement with and language about relationships is coated in straight monogamy, and it takes a lot of self-examination and unlearning to get past that.

    I'm poly and it took me a while to get there and I still catch myself occasionally framing relationships in that traditional way. Breaking out of it has definitely been a positive, though, for all my relationships. Honestly, I never even dated before engaging with poly thought, because that idea of a traditional relationship just conflicted with my worldview, long before I realized it. I was always frustrated by the idea of suddenly meeting someone and then valuing that relationship above any friendships I had made. I internalized those ideas and it made me think that friendships had to be limited, too, because they were never supposed to be as deep as that one romantic relationship. After meeting poly friends, though, I started to understand that things didn't have to be that way. Relationships - romantic or otherwise - are a spectrum, each involving different levels of intimacy that are free to change and grow in whatever ways they do. Thinking that way helped me understand that new relationships didn't have to supersede old ones in any way, that friendships can be deeply intimate and that, at the end of the day, there isn't really much separating them from romantic relationships. It's also helped me understand that relationships don't have to look like anything. They're just whoever you let yourself be emotionally and/or physically intimate with to whatever extent you want to be.

    Of course we all work in different ways, and you may reach different conclusions in a different way. Hearing alternative ideas helped influence me, though, so I hope my rambling thoughts might have a shred of value in that way.
    I tried OkCupid, but I didn't see many people there. I'll give it another try when I feel ready to delve into the dating scene again.

    I really should read more and get informed about polyamory, because I know next to nothing about it. I confess that I have been overly immersed in FTM literature these past years, and haven't really devoted time to other parts of this diverse tapestry that we call gender, sexuality and relationships.

    Thank you for your input! I wholeheartedly agree with you on the "romantic relationships aren't a step above friendships" notion. One thing I'm a 100% sure about is that I want my partner to be my friend as well. I want to feel at ease with them and do the same silly things I do with my friends. I don't want to be worshiped nor do I want to worship them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
    *sigh* I appears JK Rowling, for all she seems to support homosexuals, does NOT support trans individuals:
    https://medium.com/@Phaylen/jk-rowli...n-9bd83f7ca623

    Dammit, Rowling, you're making it harder to read.
    It's profoundly disheartening to see this division between gay/lesbian people and transpeople, especially after I've read about the Stonewall Riots and the beginning of the fight for Gay Liberation. And also knowing that homophobia and transphobia have in essence the same roots. Not to mention the overlap between these groups (heck, I'm a gay transman, and I'm sure as hell not the only one). Not to mention that we really shouldn't be fighting against one another because we are not enemies. Yet some of us are trying to divide based on false assumptions and prejudice. The same thing that has been used (and is still used to some extent) to negatively differentiate between members of the LGBTQAI+ community and everyone else.

    I freakin' loved the books as a kid. The franchise was a huge part of my teenage years, I grew up waiting for and reading the books one after another.


  2. #882
    The English Avenger Satsuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Rowling thankfully hasn't seemed to let any of those thoughts invade her books. Hell, even Dumbledore is gay, but I suppose trans is just a little too far for her.

    Shame on you, Rowling. Don't let your books suffer any more.

  3. #883

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Quote Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
    Rowling thankfully hasn't seemed to let any of those thoughts invade her books. Hell, even Dumbledore is gay, but I suppose trans is just a little too far for her.

    Shame on you, Rowling. Don't let your books suffer any more.
    Too late.


  4. #884

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Quote Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
    Rowling thankfully hasn't seemed to let any of those thoughts invade her books. Hell, even Dumbledore is gay, but I suppose trans is just a little too far for her.

    Shame on you, Rowling. Don't let your books suffer any more.
    I mean, even the progressive thoughts like Dumbledore being gay didn't invade the books either.

    I'm kind of ok treating Rowling much like George Lucas at this point. Someone who created a great world of fantasy that has done a lot for popular culture, but who I'd rather not acknowledge anymore as knowing what's best for that property.

  5. #885

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    WAIT WHAT? We dont want trans people on Harry Potter? What? Trans people are awesome!

  6. #886
    Loli Lover Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    So, recently, on a Discord server I used to be on, I literally met individuals who hate transgender people. I just don't understand how you can hate someone for who they are.... (This was a few weeks ago.)

    Like I can understand if you don't believe in transgenderism, but literally hating someone because of being one? I guess they are so unhappy with themselves, they must spread their hatred onto others, I don't know. What do you all think?

    [Is transgender myself, though truly, I tend to keep my identify a secret unless I know I'm accepted or feel like I should tell people about it.]

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  7. #887

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Quote Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
    I guess they are so unhappy with themselves, they must spread their hatred onto others, I don't know.
    It's pretty much that, actually.

  8. #888

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    I dunno, I feel like it's more of a lack of empathy rather than just "self hate directed outwards", as with homophobia. Most cis folks can't even imagine how it would be to not identify with their own body, and from that complete lack of understanding comes the hate.
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  9. #889
    The English Avenger Satsuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    I think it's also partly people who are scared of "different". If things aren't "normal" and what they're used to, then it's wrong and must be hated.

  10. #890

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Let's not forget all the people who believe it's against "God's Law" or whatever.

  11. #891
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    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Oh, okay. Thank you everyone for your answers! I hope eventually us transgender folk will be accepted for who we are, and not being hated because we are different, hopefully before the end of my lifetime, to be honest.

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  12. #892
    The Moustache Bandit Nolus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    This post has been sitting in the back of my mind for a week now. I was debating if it would be of any use to anyone if I typed it out and I went back and forth from "heck yeah, this might help someone down the line" and "maybe it's not really as revolutionary as I think it is".

    Let's dive right in (spoilered because it became a wall of text halfway through).

    Spoiler:
    Transpeople sometimes have the ability to either disclose or hide the fact that they're transgender. This is, of course, a very personal choice only they can make and no one else should force or coerce them to do either against their will.
    If you are a friend or family member or colleague or other acquintance of a trans person who discloses their status to you, you have to treat this information with the outmost respect and care. Unless getting explicit permission, please don't share it with anyone else regardless your own judgement. You might think there's no harm sharing it with a friend who you know isn't transphobic and would 100% be supportive, but understand that this isn't your "secret" to share. Even if you think the friend in question already suspects something.
    Always err on the side of caution and ask your trans friend. "Is it okay if I tell them?"; "Can I tell my mom? She always loved you and you could have a safe place at our house."; "Friend A has been asking some questions about you. Should I tell them, or do you want to take care of the matter yourself?"
    You might have well-meaning intentions, but you can still do harm. This isn't much to ask, and I'm fairly sure no one who loves the trans person crosses this boundary on purpose and with malice. This is mainly while I've decided to write this wall of text. I understand that when spoken out loud, it sounds stupidly self-explanatory, but we are human, and we all make mistakes.

    I have some examples of my own I wanted to share.
    First is with a newer friend in our group. She's pretty cool and chill and I felt comfortable enough to share my trans status with her. She asked some questions (after I said it's okay), and treated me with respect. I go home, everything is fine. Some time after, I met her again, and somehow the night earlier comes up. We had been at a bar and I remember her boyfriend coming in near the end. The girl told me he was kinda taken aback at first and seemed almost jealous of me. She proceeded to disclose my trans status to him as a way of calming him.
    This is... not okay in the slightest. Two problems arise, one is very simply telling someone else I'm trans; the second is making me feel kind of like a man with no fangs who poses no danger. Hey, I'm trans so I won't take your girlfriend. Not because I don't want to, have no interest in girls, or because I respect other people's relationship, but because I'm trans.
    I understand that this probably wasn't her intention and that she meant to do no harm. However, she kind of did and it sparked a conversation among my friends. Sadly, she wasn't there, but I plan on speaking with her one-on-one. I don't want any conflict, but my friends agreed that this isn't some unreasonable request.

    The second example is with my other friend I've known for a couple of years. He told his father that he has a trans friend when the topic came up and his dad voiced his (uninformed) opinion. I'm okay with this, mainly because there was no name-dropping and it's unlikely I'll ever meet this man. I don't see it as my secret being shared. That said, if your trans friend doesn't want you to do this, respect their wishes. If you're unsure, ask.

    The third example isn't trans related, but LGBTQIA+ related nonetheless and closely connected to the subject at hand. Me and my closest friend have a lesbian friend. Once my friend and his brother were talking with someone who asked if the woman was in a relationship. My friend answered "Yes, she's been with her wife for years." The brother promptly called my friend aside and told him "Dude, I know it's all cool, but don't go around telling people that." My friend was embarrassed and immediately admitted that it was disrespectful and stupid of him to disclose such information. Again, no malice, but we should pay attention and think before we speak.

    For me, personally, this doesn't have anything to do with me being embarrassed or feeling shame over being trans. Not at all. I'm pretty proud of being a transgender individual, and I wouldn't trade places with anyone else. I'm lucky to be able to experience life from two seemingly (but ultimately not) different perspectives. Sort of like seeing both sides of the same coin. I want to use this knowledge I've gained to better myself as an individual and offer my thoughts as someone with a highly unique perspective. I explicitly told almost everyone I've met and disclosed my trans status that they can ask, because I want to educate people in my own little way. Some do activism, some give speeches at universities or rallies. Some make art, some become involved in politics. My help is minuscule compared to these people's contributions, but this is what I currently feel comfortable with. If one more person switches to uninformed passerby to someone who might say a word or two in our defense, I'm already happy. I might not be able to convince hardcore transphobes to change their hateful thinking, but I might make a neutral person positive.


    This isn't about shame or pride. It's about personal boundaries that should be respected. It's about safety. It's about treating this information as any other someone shared with you in confidence.


  13. #893

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    That's very well written and thank you for sharing Nolus :)

  14. #894
    Loli Lover Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Quote Originally Posted by Nolus View Post
    .......
    I think it is also important to tell your friends that if you want to keep it a secret so they know themselves that they are not supposed to tell anyone, unless you gave them permission or you are open with your status, if that makes sense. Which is what I'm gonna start doing with my transgender status, since I hide the fact that I'm trans myself, especially in real life.

    There was a situation I had where a former friend (There is a different reason why we not friends anymore.) told the guy I liked at the time that I was trans, and that was a bit upsetting since it was found out he does not believe in transgenderism. So, since I wasn't there, to let him know that you can have your opinion, but just use the right pronouns, and I be all good, except that didn't happen, and now I'm not sure if he is gonna call me he or she to be honest, since I sorta stopped being friends with him without actually talking about it. (Since at the time, I was not thinking about compromises and stuff.)

    I made my trans status a secret because I had a lot of people judge me for who I am, and I faced discrimination especially when I worked. It was awful to not being able to use the women's restroom, I was lucky at the time that I had the unisex one, but was still a pain in the ass to go all the way to the back just to do my business. Eventually, I fought for my rights to use the restroom, but it took two years of suffering to get that conclusion. So, I guess in a way the discrimination just brought more to my PTSD.

    Regardless, it's difficult, I honestly wish I was more open and not give a shit, but I get dysphoric when people call me the wrong pronouns 99% of the time. Plus, it doesn't help that I have extreme social anxiety, as this just adds more to increase the social phobia I have. I do hope that one day people will be understanding about us and be more loving and accepting.

    Also, I really HATE it when trans-haters try to bring up that stupid Swedish study that says post-op will increase the suicidal rate for transsexuals, when in fact that study was flawed. It compared post-op trans-folk to the population of Sweden, and not you know post-up vs. pre-up So, yeah >_<

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  15. #895
    The Moustache Bandit Nolus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Quote Originally Posted by Serra Britt View Post
    That's very well written and thank you for sharing Nolus :)
    I'm glad you liked it~

    Quote Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
    I think it is also important to tell your friends that if you want to keep it a secret so they know themselves that they are not supposed to tell anyone, unless you gave them permission or you are open with your status, if that makes sense. Which is what I'm gonna start doing with my transgender status, since I hide the fact that I'm trans myself, especially in real life.
    You are right. It's not so much about the friends I already made, more about the ones I will make in the future. I guess I'll add "Please, don't tell anyone without my knowledge" to my regular disclaimer whenever I come out to someone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
    There was a situation I had where a former friend (There is a different reason why we not friends anymore.) told the guy I liked at the time that I was trans, and that was a bit upsetting since it was found out he does not believe in transgenderism. So, since I wasn't there, to let him know that you can have your opinion, but just use the right pronouns, and I be all good, except that didn't happen, and now I'm not sure if he is gonna call me he or she to be honest, since I sorta stopped being friends with him without actually talking about it. (Since at the time, I was not thinking about compromises and stuff.)

    I made my trans status a secret because I had a lot of people judge me for who I am, and I faced discrimination especially when I worked. It was awful to not being able to use the women's restroom, I was lucky at the time that I had the unisex one, but was still a pain in the ass to go all the way to the back just to do my business. Eventually, I fought for my rights to use the restroom, but it took two years of suffering to get that conclusion. So, I guess in a way the discrimination just brought more to my PTSD.

    Regardless, it's difficult, I honestly wish I was more open and not give a shit, but I get dysphoric when people call me the wrong pronouns 99% of the time. Plus, it doesn't help that I have extreme social anxiety, as this just adds more to increase the social phobia I have. I do hope that one day people will be understanding about us and be more loving and accepting.
    I get dysphoria too sometimes when I think about someone finding out that I'm trans. I hate the thought of someone attributing my emotions or mannerism to me "having been a girl before". I actually had this experience, in a gay club. It was with this one guy, who was in his forties I think, whom I started talking with about my transition. Somehow, the subject of sex came up, and I confessed honestly that I'm reserved and unwilling to just jump into intercourse. "That's what women do." referring to me being reserved and shy about sex. It's infuriating, even after almost a year. The guy luckily went abroad for work, and the rest of the club is younger and more open. I never had problems with anyone else there and I'm out to most of the regulars. Well, was, I haven't met the group for some months.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
    Also, I really HATE it when trans-haters try to bring up that stupid Swedish study that says post-op will increase the suicidal rate for transsexuals, when in fact that study was flawed. It compared post-op trans-folk to the population of Sweden, and not you know post-up vs. pre-up So, yeah >_<
    Ah, the famous Swedish study the debunks transgenderism or something. I actually read that, I even followed the link straight from a anti-trans website, and guess what, it's misinterpreted. And old, which is more significant one might think. It's also quite important to distinguish the different reasons a trans person has for being depressed or having suicidal thoughts. Like not being accepted by their families, friends, community and being made target for ridicule and violence. Those things tend to have bad influence on people, unsurprisingly.


  16. #896
    Loli Lover Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    I realized for quite some time now, that I am in fact asexual. I say this because I can be sexual, but 99.9% of the time it does nothing to me, I do it please the other individual. Plus, I only had one sex dream in my life, and I'm 31. I honestly don't even think about sex, and I do have hentai images, but I literally just appreciate it for the artwork. So, yeah

    Quote Originally Posted by Nolus View Post
    You are right. It's not so much about the friends I already made, more about the ones I will make in the future. I guess I'll add "Please, don't tell anyone without my knowledge" to my regular disclaimer whenever I come out to someone.
    Yeah, I like to be in stealth as much as I can, though I'm too open and that at times gets me into trouble.

    I get dysphoria too sometimes when I think about someone finding out that I'm trans. I hate the thought of someone attributing my emotions or mannerism to me "having been a girl before". I actually had this experience, in a gay club. It was with this one guy, who was in his forties I think, whom I started talking with about my transition. Somehow, the subject of sex came up, and I confessed honestly that I'm reserved and unwilling to just jump into intercourse. "That's what women do." referring to me being reserved and shy about sex. It's infuriating, even after almost a year. The guy luckily went abroad for work, and the rest of the club is younger and more open. I never had problems with anyone else there and I'm out to most of the regulars. Well, was, I haven't met the group for some months.
    Yeah, I actually know that feeling. When many years ago when I worked in this place, I couldn't find what I was looking for, I believe it was first aid stuff, but not sure. Then the manager who was female was there, basically flat out told me, that oh women are better at finding things than men. That really hurt me a lot, and I believe I stated that. I never liked her much, and I was happy when she got replaced by a better manager. (She got moved to a different department I believe.)

    Ah, the famous Swedish study the debunks transgenderism or something. I actually read that, I even followed the link straight from a anti-trans website, and guess what, it's misinterpreted. And old, which is more significant one might think. It's also quite important to distinguish the different reasons a trans person has for being depressed or having suicidal thoughts. Like not being accepted by their families, friends, community and being made target for ridicule and violence. Those things tend to have bad influence on people, unsurprisingly.
    I agree completely. Society being against you for who you are really makes things hard, I am always scared of public restrooms, and the girl's locker room. I hate that my college only has an open shower... so if I want to take a shower, I have to wear my bikini, so it's not like much people actually use it there anyway, but still. That fear of judgement. Hopefully, eventually everyone will not be just accepting of transgender people, but of every type of person from every walks of life. I do have faith in humanity, so yeah

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  17. #897

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Quote Originally Posted by maxterdexter View Post
    Most cis folks can't even imagine how it would be to not identify with their own body
    The mind isn't an empire in an empty shell: our identity is composed of both the spirit and the body, that, rather than being two distinct entities, interact and give birth to "I", this certainty that we call consciousness.
    When I'm anxious, I can feel it in my stomach; when I'm scared, my body shakes. Meditating is a source of physical relief; running or exercising, of mental relief. If the mind and the body were separate, this wouldn't be possible.
    Perhaps this is controversial and above all wrong, but I think that the need for one to swap genders is the symptom of a mental issue that would require therapy more than surgery. From this stems the feeling that letting people do as they please isn't right, from a moral perspective. There are limits to what one can do to his own body, and it would be good to have an actual conversation about them. Thing is, many of us now have the conviction that each individual has every right to dispose of himself as he wishes, as long as it doesn't harm/impact anyone else. Questioning that belief often appears as a will to oppress, discriminate, categorize (and at times rightfully so: I have this idiot Ben Shapiro in mind, whose whole motive is to hurt peoples' feelings and fuel other's hatred).

    I hope this doesn't come through as mean. It's not intended to. I'm trying to understand what is right, and this thread is an opportunity to do just that.
    Last edited by Kaptayn; July 12th, 2019 at 06:02 AM.


  18. #898

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Thing is that it isn't the right of the people who are happy with their nasty bits to tell those that are unhappy what to do with them.
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  19. #899

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    Quote Originally Posted by maxterdexter View Post
    Thing is that it isn't the right of the people who are happy with their nasty bits to tell those that are unhappy what to do with them.
    Not said, not even implied.


  20. #900

    Default Re: Talk LGBT Issues And Be F*king Nice About It

    You feel that "letting people do as they please is not right from a moral perspective"
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