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Thread: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

  1. #9741

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    I remember when just before the timeskip weatheria technology Nami spent 2 years studying was considered to be big deal and that weather balls were said to be dangerous enough to plunge the world into chaos if it fell into the wrong hands (words for words chapter 596), all for it to end up being reduced as glorified party tricks .

  2. #9742
    aka demonicpoodle Kaworu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Another issue with this is just how blindingly obvious this is to avoid. Just try to imagine this happening during Khalifa.
    "Hmmm, Khalifa is too physically strong for Nami, how do I resolve this?"
    *Lucci comes down from his fight with Luffy, impales Khalifa with Shigan for some reason*
    *Nami who was previously having trouble now easily disposes of Khalifa's half-dead body with one Thunder Lance Tempo*
    Audience:


    Not trying to say every audience member is like that about this, that's far from the case taking the whole Internet as a whole, but yeah still, I think this is the most I've ever seen people call something out from Oda, including myself. And it's just so obvious to avoid as a writer. It's just such an instant tension drainer, and moment deflater.
    Croc or Enel would never.
    Wanna see the "ancient civilization destroyed" thing done really well? FFXIV did a great take on it. The bar's high for One Piece to beat.

  3. #9743

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    As a Nami fan I’ve pretty much consigned myself to taking any scraps I can at this point. Things will never be as good as they were the first 400 chapters, but they also will not be as horrible as the Breast Band Girl era from Fishman Island to Dressrosa.

    I would like her to use the climatact upgrades even once though. What was even the point of the nyoibo addition besides being able to put it away between her breasts now?

  4. #9744

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Nami beating Ulti like that is best course of action because Nami simply wasn't up on par. Tricks don't work all the time (See Doflamingo vs Law). At least Oda didn't magically have Nami overwhelm Ulti like he had Zoro scar Kaido (lmao) or other atrocious things he's done in this arc.

    Oda has dropped the ball with many things in this arc, Nami isn't one of them. Nami vs Ulti's biggest problem is that it was spread out for too many chapters.


  5. #9745

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaworu View Post
    Another issue with this is just how blindingly obvious this is to avoid. Just try to imagine this happening during Khalifa.
    "Hmmm, Khalifa is too physically strong for Nami, how do I resolve this?"
    *Lucci comes down from his fight with Luffy, impales Khalifa with Shigan for some reason*
    *Nami who was previously having trouble now easily disposes of Khalifa's half-dead body with one Thunder Lance Tempo*
    Audience:
    http://media.ign.com/games/image/art...1200684654.jpg

    Not trying to say every audience member is like that about this, that's far from the case taking the whole Internet as a whole, but yeah still, I think this is the most I've ever seen people call something out from Oda, including myself. And it's just so obvious to avoid as a writer. It's just such an instant tension drainer, and moment deflater.
    Wouldn't this imply that BM had no reason to attack Ulti since you're using Lucci as an example? There's a whole setup to earning Zeus that led up to this where Nami and Lola connected, BM is supposedly this heartless monster that can never show a gentler side, and Ulti being a stepping stone while also showing resilience because not everyone steps to BM or gets back up from her attacks.

    All 3 of their dispositions are highlighted with Tama as a catalyst and it's getting dismissed in this discussion because "we didn't get our fight and it's a slap in the face to the characters". When it's the opposite and Oda is choosing to highlight their characters with the fight as a backdrop and not the star of the show.

  6. #9746
    Discovered Stowaway Yonkou Monkey D Luffy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy Boy View Post
    Nami beating Ulti like that is best course of action because Nami simply wasn't up on par. Tricks don't work all the time (See Doflamingo vs Law). At least Oda didn't magically have Nami overwhelm Ulti like he had Zoro scar Kaido (lmao) or other atrocious things he's done in this arc.

    Oda has dropped the ball with many things in this arc, Nami isn't one of them. Nami vs Ulti's biggest problem is that it was spread out for too many chapters.
    Completely agree.
    And I am also pretty positive that had Nami beaten Ulti people would be also be complaining.

  7. #9747

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Nami is weak, needs help/plot against tough opponent. News at 11.

    Usopp is also weak, needs help/plot against tough opponent. News at 11.

    Complaining for the sake of complaining.

  8. #9748

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Honestly all you have to do to make everyone happy is to rearrange the sequence of events a bit and you can have Nami defeat Ulti without it being either cheap or outlandish.

    Deal with Zeus sooner, and have Kidd arrive to save Nami and Usopp before BM defeats Ulti. Then you can have Nami fight Ulti with Zeus-baton and no powerscaler could complain how Nami is too weak since she would get a weapon capable of hurting her.

    And the rest can enjoy Nami win a high stakes difficult battle thru trickery and tactics.

    The thing that baffles me is that I feel that something like that was indeed Odas plan but at the last moment he decided he wanted to be unpredictable or rush the plot along.... And we ended up with the worst of all scenarios

  9. #9749

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    I'm puzzled we had Usopp and Nami paired together for over 25 chapters yet we barely saw any teamwork. C'mon, I'm sure weather and plants could have made for some good combo

  10. #9750

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Cockycent View Post
    When it's the opposite and Oda is choosing to highlight their characters with the fight as a backdrop and not the star of the show.
    That would be totally fine and a good route to take!

    If it hadn't been literally 600 chapters and 15 years since the last time Nami got a non-fodder fight. (And even longer for Robin!) Usopp isn't as bad off, it's only been 250 chapters and six years since he sniped Sugar.

    And its very likely to be until the end of the series in another who knows how many years before they get to the big finale where Oda is willing to give every crewmember a fighgt.
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  11. #9751

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    What I'm most sad about is the lack of agency for Nami. Everything she achieved felt like a stroke of luck.

    And I just don't get how we could have all these set ups and then they fall through like Oda kept changing his mind.
    Usopp and Nami vs Page One and Ulti! Nope, doesn't happen.
    Nami is mad cause Tama got hit, she's gonna stand up to... no just keep running as Big Mom deals with it.
    A powerful cloud wants to join forces, the cat burglar is gonna steal hi- no, it's all done by accident!
    Finally it's Ulti vs Nami. Let's see some actio.... and she misses and Zeus does all the work.

    Like I'm overjoyed Nami has gotten all this focus and in general I love Onigashi, but this fght wasn't handled well. It's gonna be interesting to see how the other fights play out, if this kinda treatment will be exclusive to Nami, if Robin will also get it, or everyone.

  12. #9752

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Not only Nami is weaker than Ulti but the flying six member is also a bad match up for her. Ulti being a ancient zoan can really tank attacks while Nami is a glass cannon. The paramercias Doublefinger and Kalifa never came out as high durability types.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    "Nami can't beat this character in a test of strength" isn't sexist.


    "Nami can't beat this character under any circumstances" is kind of amateurish, but still neutral.


    "Nami can't beat this character under any circumstances because she's a weak girl and has no other talents" is absolutely misogynist.


    The last opinion is the one being criticized.




    ...especially in a genre entirely about heroes overcoming enemies that are stronger than them.

    "Nami can't beat this character under any circumstances"


    She beat Ulti under a lot of conventient circumstances and with other characters always saving her butt in the last second. So under certain circumstances she could indeed beat Ulti as show last chapter.


    "Nami can't beat this character under any circumstances because she's a weak girl and has no other talents"


    You make this imaginary person sound more like a Nami hater than a "woman hater"


    "Nami can't beat this female character under any circumstances because she's a weak girl and has no other talents while the other is a strong talended girl"


    Calling this misogyny stills sounds like a non sequitur.

  13. #9753

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    This thread is becoming like that tweet thread.

    "Nobody said that", but you're here defending that stance and admitting you are 1 of them lol

    It's like you want to be able to have that stance and not be called misogynistic. Best to stand by it and own it.

  14. #9754

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Why does Nami's gender even matter in this issue? Can't we look at her as a character and not just see her as a woman?

    I don't think that Usopp can beat Ulti. Does it matter that he is a man?

  15. #9755

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Cockycent View Post
    This thread is becoming like that tweet thread.

    "Nobody said that", but you're here defending that stance and admitting you are 1 of them lol

    It's like you want to be able to have that stance and not be called misogynistic. Best to stand by it and own it.
    Huh because that stance is not misogynistic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaworu View Post
    Another issue with this is just how blindingly obvious this is to avoid. Just try to imagine this happening during Khalifa.
    "Hmmm, Khalifa is too physically strong for Nami, how do I resolve this?"
    *Lucci comes down from his fight with Luffy, impales Khalifa with Shigan for some reason*
    *Nami who was previously having trouble now easily disposes of Khalifa's half-dead body with one Thunder Lance Tempo*
    Audience:
    This would be more comparable to the Absalom fight but in the Kalifa stituation there was moment Monster Chopper appeared and kinda helped Nami.

    Quote Originally Posted by BragMan27 View Post
    Why does Nami's gender even matter in this issue? Can't we look at her as a character and not just see her as a woman?

    I don't think that Usopp can beat Ulti. Does it matter that he is a man?
    Sane.
    Last edited by Nouryoku; June 17th, 2021 at 11:33 AM.

  16. #9756

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Nouryoku View Post
    Not only Nami is weaker than Ulti but the flying six member is also a bad match up for her. Ulti being a ancient zoan can really tank attacks while Nami is a glass cannon. The paramercias Doublefinger and Kalifa never came out as high durability types.

    She beat Ulti under a lot of conventient circumstances and with other characters always saving her butt in the last second. So under certain circumstances she could indeed beat Ulti as show last chapter.
    Then... maybe Oda should have had Ulti stay down from Big Mom's attack? This would have feel all the same for Nami's character.
    I dunno how anyone can consider Nami "beat" Ulti when she had zero agency during the whole confrontation. Even the finisher she failed to land it.
    Having support and outside help is one thing (Luffy tend to have these things going for him), having virtually 0 agency in your own "victory" is another one.
    No matter how I see it this is Big Mom and Zeus victory.
    Heck Nami's reaction to her supposed win wasn't even shown like Oda usually does.

  17. #9757

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Kfunk View Post
    Then... maybe Oda should have had Ulti stay down from Big Mom's attack? This would have feel all the same for Nami's character.
    I dunno how anyone can consider Nami "beat" Ulti when she had zero agency during the whole confrontation. Even the finisher she failed to land it.
    Having support and outside help is one thing (Luffy tend to have these things going for him), having virtually 0 agency in your own "victory" is another one.
    No matter how I see it this is Big Mom and Zeus victory.
    Heck Nami's reaction to her supposed win wasn't even shown like Oda usually does.
    Nami's agency comes when she chooses to save Zeus' life. You give Zues part of the victory, but that wouldn't be possible without Nami's actions.

    I think a Strawhat helping someone in need and teaming up to defeat a strong opponent is just such a One Piece action. I find it more satisfying than Nami getting a victory in a 1 v 1 just because Oda made another female antagonist act incompetent.

  18. #9758

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Nouryoku View Post
    Huh because that stance is not misogynistic.



    This would be more comparable to the Absalom fight but in the Kalifa stituation there was moment Monster Chopper appeared and kinda helped Nami.
    The 2 characters that are mostly discussed as Nami's big fights were Zala and Kalifa. Both like Ulti, physically stronger. Yet, it's talked about differently here.

    It's like people want Nami to do the same outwitting every fight. When Oda doesn't go that repetitive route, it's an issue.

    Yes, it is misogynistic. You're defending a misogynistic stance, while calling it an imaginary person, and not noticing you're only defending it because you don't want to fall under the label that sounds like your own rhetoric The shoe fits and you don't want to be caught in it. Yet, you come out to expose yourself anyway.

    Luffy just beat someone that was stronger and faster than him in Kata. Basically befriending Kata for him to stay down and before that, go against what is the tradition in pirate fights and impale himself. It's the same as Nami befriending Zeus and it paid off.

    They both earned it and it highlighted a way to overcome conflicts without it being purely physical or outthinking the opponent. I'll stick by what Mihawk says because he seems like he knows a thing about being competent in a fight considering this world.

  19. #9759

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Kfunk View Post
    Then... maybe Oda should have had Ulti stay down from Big Mom's attack? This would have feel all the same for Nami's character.
    I dunno how anyone can consider Nami "beat" Ulti when she had zero agency during the whole confrontation. Even the finisher she failed to land it.
    Having support and outside help is one thing (Luffy tend to have these things going for him), having virtually 0 agency in your own "victory" is another one.
    No matter how I see it this is Big Mom and Zeus victory.
    Heck Nami's reaction to her supposed win wasn't even shown like Oda usually does.
    "Then... maybe Oda should have had Ulti stay down from Big Mom's attack?"

    Yes he absolutely should. Another option would be using 3 or 4 weaker strawhats vs Ulti and Paypay instead of just 2.

  20. #9760

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by BragMan27 View Post
    Nami's agency comes when she chooses to save Zeus' life. You give Zues part of the victory, but that wouldn't be possible without Nami's actions.

    I think a Strawhat helping someone in need and teaming up to defeat a strong opponent is just such a One Piece action. I find it more satisfying than Nami getting a victory in a 1 v 1 just because Oda made another female antagonist act incompetent.
    That's good on paper but it's not like th "Thieving Cat" Nami even "stole" Zeus on purpose this time, it was purely accidental. Even that Oda couldn't give it to her.

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