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Thread: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

  1. #7901
    Discovered Stowaway andre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfDarkness View Post


    Anyway just thought it was funny that kids are trying to compare plot-driven narrative aimed at kids to character-driven narrative aimed at mature audience and claiming one is better.
    What he's saying is right, kind of, but I think it misses the point of why One Piece is praised as it is. Oda is working purely within the confines of Shonen Fiction without really subverting it, but is still able to accomplish more literary feats. He's doing this while making a story very much targeted towards young Japanese kids in a way most of his peers (in the shonen world) have not, in my opinion. Of course, even with that distinction there's a lot that can be validly criticized about One Piece and Oda, but I also think it's an accomplishment that it has such value while ​the dialogue and themes are so transparent.

  2. #7902

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    I think there are also deeper recurrent themes and symbolism in One Piece beyond the more superficial ones like friendship and pursuit of impossible dreams. I mean, it's not going to be a controversial statement on a forum like this one, but I think Oda is a master storyteller. I think he doesn't spell out the deeper themes, but instead leaves it to the readers. I forget where the interview was, but Oda said something to the effect that he writes the story in such a way that people on a higher reading levels will be able to appreciate the more nuanced themes. Best example of this I can think is the SBS question where Oda answers a reader question about what is happening in the country of Vira to have undergone another coup d'etat when it was once a peaceful island. He confirms the reader's suspicion that the location referenced in the log of Noland's adventure is indeed the same as the one Nami reads about en route to Logue Town. Importantly, Oda then returns the reader's question with one of his own. Rather than ask what's going on in Vira, a better question for the reader to ask as they go through the series is, 'what is going on in the world to create this situation?' Essentially, he's asking the reader to look at the series on a deeper level to better answer their question.
    Luffy, Zoro, Nami, Usopp, Sanji, Chopper, Robin, Franky, Brook, Jimbei, Carrot, Vivi, Smoker

    "ONE PIECE, IT EXISTS" - The Great Pirate Edward Newgate

  3. #7903

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrior View Post
    So essentially it's a typical One Piece arc structure (or typical story structure, in general), just with curtains rising and closing in the middle to give space for interludes. And Hiyori doing the be-beng thingy

    With that said, I think it's a good thing we have these interludes where Oda pauses Wano and shows stuff happening around the world. It helps to give a real sense of progression to the arc, as well as allowing the readers to rest a bit from the story. This sort of resets the arc and makes every new act feel fresh. Oda used a similar tactic for the enormous Water 7/Enies Lobby arc, by changing locations to a brand new, totally different place, complete with an intermediate battle/comedy portion in the sea train. I think one of the big problems of Dressrosa was that he did not pull any of these things successfully. He tried to include a variety of places, by having Green Bit be a different island, then having Pica reorganize the layout of the land, essentially creating a new island for the fights to occur. But it wasn't nearly enough and the arc ended up feeling long and dragged out. We're 78 chapters into Wano (84 if we count the Reverie chapters!) and everything still feels fresh and in constant development. In Dressrosa, by the 50th chapter, every person in these forums was already sick of that place.
    Good observation. Whole Cake Island also had this unique sense of progression following a specific linear path: Cacao > Sea > Seducing Woods > Chateau > Wedding, and then throwing a twist by making them return through the same path, with a recurring side-location that kept the final boss isolated from everyone else (Mirro-World) and the occasional detour every now and then like Nuts Island. Sanji also spent most of his time in the Germa Kingdom, so visual variety was never a problem.

    It's strange that the arc is officially called Whole Cake Island Arc though, since half of it happens outside of the eponymous location.

  4. #7904

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    Good observation. Whole Cake Island also had this unique sense of progression following a specific linear path: Cacao > Sea > Seducing Woods > Chateau > Wedding, and then throwing a twist by making them return through the same path, with a recurring side-location that kept the final boss isolated from everyone else (Mirro-World) and the occasional detour every now and then like Nuts Island. Sanji also spent most of his time in the Germa Kingdom, so visual variety was never a problem.

    It's strange that the arc is officially called Whole Cake Island Arc though, since half of it happens outside of the eponymous location.
    It's the center of Totland and where the climax happens. Also, "Totland" doesn't pop out as a title as much as Whole Cake. Then there's the fact that BM is big on deals and taking the larger benefit. Her greed is like having the Whole Cake and eating it (have your cake and eat it too) phrase. Sanji "defeated" her with a cake, the list goes on. So many things you can do with that compared to bland ol Totland.

  5. #7905
    King of Little Sisters ~ Chrior's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    I'm with king Cannon on this one. I always call it Totto Land arc exactly because of that. Because it was so much more than Whole Cake Island itself. But as long as everyone understands each other when referencing the arc, whatever.

  6. #7906

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Am I one of the few that really really didn't like the Zoro vs Kamuzo fight in the anime?
    Here’s how Naruto should end: Last panel is Naruto standing proudly over Konohagakure. Slowly zoom out to reveal Luffy staring into a snowglobe with a miniature Konoha inside it. Usopp asks him what he’s doing. Luffy replies “Thinkin’ bout ninjas! Ninjas are cool!” and then chucks it off the ship

  7. #7907
    Pegadinha do Malandro! GanonBR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmamentHero View Post
    Am I one of the few that really really didn't like the Zoro vs Kamuzo fight in the anime?
    I'm not watching the anime but checked this fight out and also didn't like it.

    It reminded me of Captain Tsubasa (Zoro and Killer running kilometers to clash, even though they were face to face) and DBZ (too much lights and energy beams).

  8. #7908

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Syrup aura strikes again. Nothing more talked about than syrup aura and Nami face as of now

  9. #7909

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmamentHero View Post
    Am I one of the few that really really didn't like the Zoro vs Kamuzo fight in the anime?
    Which fight in the anime has been good lately?

    Anime been pumping out trying-hard-to-shove-visual-effects-for-the-sake-of-it and all of them are super boring. This one, in particular, was hard to look at due to how stupidly uncharacteristically this felt relation to the rest of the series.

    Would've been more epic if it was simple and didn't try hard to mimic the style of other shonen animes.

  10. #7910

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfDarkness View Post
    Which fight in the anime has been good lately?

    Anime been pumping out trying-hard-to-shove-visual-effects-for-the-sake-of-it and all of them are super boring. This one, in particular, was hard to look at due to how stupidly uncharacteristically this felt relation to the rest of the series.

    Would've been more epic if it was simple and didn't try hard to mimic the style of other shonen animes.
    It would've definitely been better as a more grounded fight to keep the aesthetic of a traditional samurai battle... but boy were the effects so badly glaring
    Here’s how Naruto should end: Last panel is Naruto standing proudly over Konohagakure. Slowly zoom out to reveal Luffy staring into a snowglobe with a miniature Konoha inside it. Usopp asks him what he’s doing. Luffy replies “Thinkin’ bout ninjas! Ninjas are cool!” and then chucks it off the ship

  11. #7911

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    That's why I liked it in the manga. It was simple and to the point.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Vongola_Boss_XI View Post
    Oda said something to the effect that he writes the story in such a way that people on a higher reading levels will be able to appreciate the more nuanced themes
    Source?

    I don't ever remember Oda saying anything remotely close to it at all.

    I think this might be the only time Oda touched upon on it:

    "Does art tell you something? Does manga advocate something? As a matter of fact, I don't put any messages in the manga I draw. If I draw a story, the themes emerge all on their own. I do my utmost to find an answer in what I come up with, but each reader is entirely free to decide what he or she takes away from the story. So I don't send messages. But, hmm. It's not as if I don't have anything to say." Color Walk 2 (2003) , SWITCH (2009)
    Which isn't him saying that he has "deeper" themes hidden away. Just saying that he didn't particularly "plan" for a certain theme to show up and ended up showing up organically.

    One Piece is my favorite manga of all time and I have no problems saying that it isn't deep nor Oda is writing some deep series that should be analyzed for it's subtext. It's just not. Oda knows exactly who he is writing for which is teen boys.

    One Piece, just like every story, obviously has messages to convey but that doesn't mean it has depth and that is perfectly ok. I never really understood the reason why people want to make One Piece into what its not. It is a rubber pirate manga aimed at teen boys.

  12. #7912

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Greg I can completely understand if you don’t want to comment but do you have any ideas on what the match ups in Wano might be?

  13. #7913
    POE WUN BGR Greg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    ...wow...

    Where were you all when I tweeted my disdain for 'by-committee ' One Piece anime on Twitter and tookon an armada of sakuga fans alone?

    Will get back to other questions in detail in a bit.

  14. #7914

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    I'm pretty sure the "higher reading level" was a Kubo thing, with his "level 5 secrets" and so on.

    Or maybe that infamous, cringe Rick & Morty write up.

  15. #7915

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfDarkness View Post
    Which fight in the anime has been good lately?

    Anime been pumping out trying-hard-to-shove-visual-effects-for-the-sake-of-it and all of them are super boring. This one, in particular, was hard to look at due to how stupidly uncharacteristically this felt relation to the rest of the series.

    Would've been more epic if it was simple and didn't try hard to mimic the style of other shonen animes.
    uncharacteristic with the rest of the series how?

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmamentHero View Post
    It would've definitely been better as a more grounded fight to keep the aesthetic of a traditional samurai battle... but boy were the effects so badly glaring
    Killer isnt a samurai tho, i thought the anime did good on that part given his style of fighting. It was very free.
    and they gave us that with something like the zoro vs Gyukimaru fight.

    I understand the exaggeration of the miles between each. But the other aspects comes with a power fantasy series like OP

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfDarkness View Post
    That's why I liked it in the manga. It was simple and to the point.
    But cant you also say the reason it was is because lately oda has been rushing some fights because of the numerous plots, stories, etc he has to focus on in the arc.

    How I see it at this point, the anime is for filling and adding on what Oda prolly cant expound on in the manga due to time or whatever. So the stuff(Not just talking the fight, but everything particularly in Wano) seen in the anime that is a addition/extension to what was seen in the manga is prolly what he could have put in if he had time.

    but given how present OP is now, with so much shit in each arc espescially one now like Wano. He prolly has to offpanel, and shorten stuff and leave the real length of how he wanted things to the anime. imo

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    ...wow...

    Where were you all when I tweeted my disdain for 'by-committee ' One Piece anime on Twitter and tookon an armada of sakuga fans alone?

    Will get back to other questions in detail in a bit.
    you prolly been asked this before and alot so forgive me

    but whats your opinion on the Anime's adaption of Wano?
    Last edited by Nupas2312; August 1st, 2020 at 10:25 PM.

  16. #7916

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Nupas2312 View Post
    uncharacteristic with the rest of the series how?
    In terms of how the battle is very much inspired by other generic shonen animes. Particularly the "second" half of the battle when Zoro gets hit by Killer. That whole sequence felt like Bleach or One Punch Man or some other generic shonen shit rather than One Piece.

    Love it or hate it, but the battles in One Piece manga has never really relied on visual gimmicks as a way to drive itself. The anime, on the other hand, seems to consistently and constantly shove pointless "aura" or "beam" scenes, alongside explosions or environment on a similar scale as Bleach battles being destroyed, for the sake of appearing flashy. It's not exciting. It's just stupid and pointless and comes across as a super try-hard move from Toei.

    This is just another reason on top of a giant list of reasons why the One Piece anime doesn't understand the manga.

  17. #7917
    No, I can't use Asura. jmbjr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    I find it silly how the anime is the best it's ever looked, and people are still complaining about it. I get complaints about the pacing - that's probably never going to get better at this point unless they take an extended break or go seasonal. But the animation and overall look of the show are leaps above what it's been. There's nothing wrong with adding some flair to the action scenes - which, by the way, have always looked better in those other "generic shonen anime", as you put it, than in the One Piece anime. The anime is actually taking some of the animation techniques that made those "generic" shows pop and be fun to watch to have more fun with the action scenes. If that's not to your taste, I get it, but plenty of people don't find it boring, and are actually getting excited by the anime for the first time in ages.

    Hell, the anime doesn't "always" do this - the vast majority of Sanji vs Page One was fairly grounded with only the final blow being over the top, Zoro had a very grounded fight in the first episode of Wano, a lot of the fights against fodder didn't use those effects, etc. It mostly does it on the bigger moments to add a little more flair.

    Is it over the top? Sure. Unneeded? Arguably. Would I trade it in for the largely static, uninspired fight scenes that we were mostly stuck with in the anime for so long? Hell no.

    The anime still has plenty of problems, but for once the action is consistently animated at least decent, if not great. The additions of auras and environment destruction can be debated, but it feels more like the animators having fun than anything to me. The anime isn't the manga, and it's okay for it to have some fun every now and then and go over the top if you ask me.
    Thanks to PirateNeko for the avatar!

  18. #7918

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    I mean just because it looks good doesn't mean it's actually good. And more to the point; it's not One Piece.

    It works well for other animes that focus on the action and the flashy animation more than anything else. It just feels completely out of place for One Piece to be suddenly turned into Bleach or Seven Deadly Sins with shit just randomly exploding or breaking because YOU SEE THEY STRONG even though the manga conveyed the same without the effects.

    I have no problem with the anime adding stuff (especially since it seems like Oda is gift-wrapping it for them) but the way they do it is by far the most retarded approach. Instead of adding anything meaningful to the fight, they add pointless effects that distract more than enhance the fights. Who got anything more from the fight that the manga didn't convey? Aside from the aura bullshit?

    If you can't answer that then how are you talking about the anime "adding" stuff?

    The anime is actually taking some of the animation techniques that made those "generic" shows pop and be fun to watch to have more fun with the action scenes.
    That's like claiming that Zack Snyder is a good action-movie director because his movies are filled with mindless explosions and consistently bombard the audience with gimmicky visuals that people enjoy.

    Compared to say Raid or Night comes for us where the action isn't about spectacle but about the actual tight choreography and skilled action-movie making. That also has weight and impact.

    Most, if not all, modern shonen series rely on the Zack Snyder type effect when it comes to fights. And people enjoy it because of that. And that's fine.

    But personally speaking; there is nothing more boring than seeing a fight that has no real substance, weight or impact and only exists for the sake of flashy, big spectacle action pieces. I'll take Luffy vs Usopp or Luffy vs Sanji over any of the modern shonen anime fights any day of the week.

  19. #7919

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    ...wow...

    Where were you all when I tweeted my disdain for 'by-committee ' One Piece anime on Twitter and tookon an armada of sakuga fans alone?

    Will get back to other questions in detail in a bit.
    I'm not on twitter, but I wouldve helped lol
    Here’s how Naruto should end: Last panel is Naruto standing proudly over Konohagakure. Slowly zoom out to reveal Luffy staring into a snowglobe with a miniature Konoha inside it. Usopp asks him what he’s doing. Luffy replies “Thinkin’ bout ninjas! Ninjas are cool!” and then chucks it off the ship

  20. #7920
    No, I can't use Asura. jmbjr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfDarkness View Post
    I mean just because it looks good doesn't mean it's actually good. And more to the point; it's not One Piece.

    It works well for other animes that focus on the action and the flashy animation more than anything else. It just feels completely out of place for One Piece to be suddenly turned into Bleach or Seven Deadly Sins with shit just randomly exploding or breaking because YOU SEE THEY STRONG even though the manga conveyed the same without the effects.

    I have no problem with the anime adding stuff (especially since it seems like Oda is gift-wrapping it for them) but the way they do it is by far the most retarded approach. Instead of adding anything meaningful to the fight, they add pointless effects that distract more than enhance the fights. Who got anything more from the fight that the manga didn't convey? Aside from the aura bullshit?

    If you can't answer that then how are you talking about the anime "adding" stuff?



    That's like claiming that Zack Snyder is a good action-movie director because his movies are filled with mindless explosions and consistently bombard the audience with gimmicky visuals that people enjoy.

    Compared to say Raid or Night comes for us where the action isn't about spectacle but about the actual tight choreography and skilled action-movie making. That also has weight and impact.

    Most, if not all, modern shonen series rely on the Zack Snyder type effect when it comes to fights. And people enjoy it because of that. And that's fine.

    But personally speaking; there is nothing more boring than seeing a fight that has no real substance, weight or impact and only exists for the sake of flashy, big spectacle action pieces. I'll take Luffy vs Usopp or Luffy vs Sanji over any of the modern shonen anime fights any day of the week.
    If you want to be technical, the manga does use these techniques - there's a Haki aura coming off of Zoro's swords and the ground around him is lifted up - though the anime does exaggerate it a great deal. I can see it seeming out of place to a certain degree, but it's not like this stuff isn't in One Piece at all - again, it's just exaggerated a lot.

    Comparing this fight to Luffy vs Usopp and Luffy vs Sanji is absurd, because those fights have an insane amount of drama surrounding them in both mediums that make the fights so compelling. And in those cases, the anime did add some things that enhanced the fights - for the latter, they added some shots of Sanji looking surprised for a moment that Luffy was still standing and refusing to fight back, causing to hesitate for just a moment before continuing to attack. That added to the drama and was great, but it wouldn't have made sense without the dramatic context of the scene overall. This fight that you're complaining about? It's mostly used to get Zoro introduced to Hiyori, get an injury, and to get a badass Zoro moment. In other words, it's pretty much just a fun fight to make Zoro look cool and to get the plot moving, and we don't really find out about it's full significance until later.

    What did the anime do to enhance the fight? They made Kamazo's laugh sound pained and almost like crying at times, alluding to what's going on with him. They gave Kamazo some attacks that feel natural for someone at his level - buzzsaw-like spins, creating a tornado, and air slashes - that also make him feel more comparable to Zoro, which makes sense given his real identity as one of the other Supernova. They reinforced how monstrous Zoro is - a point that the manga makes many times - through changes in lighting when we see his reaction to getting stabbed. And yes, they go very over the top at the end, and I can see how that could be distracting to some viewers - but again, what's the point of the scene? To make Zoro look like an absolute monster, and they use techniques from the animation medium to reinforce that, even if it is a little overkill.

    Did the manga convey Zoro was a monster without going that over the top? Absolutely. The anime just had it's fun with it, and if you don't like how they did it, that's fine. One Piece is about so much more than the fights, which to be frank are only as strong as they are because of the context and background surrounding them. Adding these effects doesn't somehow make the show not One Piece anymore.

    For the Zack Snyder vs The Raid comparison - I would absolutely agree that something like The Raid is more impressive and commendable than what Snyder does. However, something can be flashy and have spectacle and still be well-done and impressive. And for animation specifically? That moment of Zoro taking down Killer was impressive as all hell in terms of the animation and craft that went into it, regardless of whether you found the effects distracting or not. Did it have the tight choreography of The Raid? No. Would it be cool if it did? Hell yeah. Is the anime team capable of doing that? Eh....

    Again, the anime has a lot of problems - a LOT of problems. But for the anime, our choices don't come down to Snyder or The Raid, if you want to use that example. Our choices really come down to Snyder or a PowerPoint presentation. Maybe you prefer the PowerPoint presentation. I'm glad that Snyder is something we can get now. If the Raid becomes an option, I'll be even more on board.
    Thanks to PirateNeko for the avatar!

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