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Thread: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

  1. #6021

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    The problem with Robin is that after Enies Lobby she basically completed her character development. She lost her mysterious aura that made her character captivating and now she is often drawn like a character with no charisma at all, honestly. I get it,she is happy now,and thats a great thing. And i am not saying that Enies Lobby should not have happened,that is the best arc of the series in my opinion,so mine is not a criticism at all! I am just saying that Robin post-timeskip often feels more like a 'human encyclopedia' than an actual character,but thats probably ok because,considering the fact that she is happy now and she completed her character development,its better to let her be how she is now instead of ruining her with some forced storyline just to do something with her. And i am also sure that when the Strawhats will meet the Revolutionaries she could shine again,apart from the parts when they have to translate the Ponyeglyps.

  2. #6022
    Arf. (ᵔᴥᵔ) FelRes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    I would hardly say her development stopped at the end of EL. She was still very cool and calm after that, opening up a bit more. It wasn't until after the timeskip that she promoted herself from cool big sis to your friend's hot mom, full of confidence. And it wasn't until Dressrosa where she started face faulting. Soon she'll be getting bonked on the head by Nami and start crying just like everyone else. Also she had a massive story arc about her, and is running the secondary void century subplot. Her time is coming, she just needs to sit back for now.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungWhite View Post
    Robin had an over 100 chapter saga dedicated to her development & characterization. There's not much more that can be done with her that hasn't been done already. Usopp and Nami at that point hadn't been in those types of situations regularly before so those moments were important for them. Unlike those two, Robin has been fighting her whole life so she's likely been though all that already.

    Robin had a 1v1 fight in skypiea. Nothing special or unique came from it, no development or use of special tactics occured. That's proof that giving her 1v1 fights won't guarantee any of the things you're speaking of.

    Robin is not haxed. She participates, in fights, just not 1v1. She can't just waltz up and defeat people. She got wrecked by Zoro & Sanji's zombie's in thriller bark, for example.

    If Franky, Chinjao, Sai, Bartolomeo, Cavendish etc who are all stronger than Robin, could barely beat the executives, why would anyone in their right minds believe she could defeat Gladius, and the even stronger top executives like Trebol & Diamante who stand with guys like Vergo? We saw her try to stand off against Trebol & it didn't look too good for her.


    She has boasted about Luffy before and she didn't need a 1v1 to do that.





    You're saying she can't beat Gladius while showing me a page where she's got an upper hand on Gladius. What is this. "She can't just waltz up and defeat people" she literally just defeats people standing where she is she can skip the waltzing part. She breaks spines. You realize that alone would defeat all her crew mates not made of rubber or metal. And that zombie thing is just another case of her having to be handicapped. There's no reason Oda couldn't have just had a proper Robin vs Cindry fight on the side where she has to defeat her despite the modified zombie body that would be immune to bone-breaking. But the plot needed to focus on Chopper vs Hogback so off to the sidelines she goes.

    And while Franky has raw strength over Robin, she has more skill with her abilities. She could overpower him by going for fleshy parts or just using giant limbs to pick him up and chuck him away. Not that we need to actually see that obviously. You need to think more creatively if you don't understand how powerful she actually is. Even better if you start getting into neck snapping.
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  3. #6023

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    You better hope your eyeballs can use haki when miss grows hands anywhere shows up. The only thing keeping her hamstrung is the fact that she can't gore it up in a shounen series

  4. #6024

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    If anything she's too strong to get fights. ''Power and speed are meaningless against me''. I think she's said that several times. The problem is her powerset is not very fitting for 1vs1 fights. If she's strong enough to overpower the enemy, she can easily win. But if she isn't, then there's not much she can do either.

  5. #6025

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Grows a finger in opponents heart or lung. Fucks up her finger but it ends anybodys life

  6. #6026

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Nah, if she canīt completely hold opponents down, she still can punch them, stomp them and so forth. Oda literally made a compelling fight out of Nami vs Miss Doublefinger, if he wanted to, he could have easily created match-ups that would provide 1-2 chapter 1vs1 for Robin, he simply does not want to, for whatever reason that may be.
    Same for Chopper, whose transformations within a fight were entertaining, but now get hardly showcased, and if at all, he is already in the transformation he wants to use most of the time. Same for his weakness scope.

    Oda chose to highlight side characters instead of the Strawhats, itīs by choice, not out of necessity.

  7. #6027

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabra View Post
    But those 1 vs. 1 fights are not completely cut, they're just performed by non-Straw Hats now.
    Not quite! The Dresserossa fights, while going to others, were maybe half a chapter each for the side character. Other people got fights, but they didn't get the extended 2-4 solid chapter focus that the Strawhats would.

    Like the Lao G fight, fighting Don Chinjao, Baby 5, and Sai was about a chapter, and it covered character stuff on all three of those guys, and the actual fight fight was 4 or 5 pages between all of them.

    Gladius and Dellinger versus Cavendish, Bart, and Robin, was about two chapters.

    Compare that to Usopp versus Sugar or Zoro versus Pica, those both took a lot of time and got intersperced among other action, and Luffy versus Dofla was many many chapters.

    Go back to Water 7. How much page time did Paulie's fight get versus anything any of the strawhats got into? A couple pages rather than chapters to itself.

    Side characters got side fights. But those were all one or two moves apiece, and done very quickly. A dedicated Strawhat fight has multiple phases, give and take, desperation, and will take several weeks by itself. That's the difference.


    We're likely going to see similar in Wano. The samurai and minks will all get fights, but they'll be quick affairs mostly while Strawhats get big battles.
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  8. #6028

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    I donīt see it in Wa No, too many side characters with stakes to give every Strawhat a 1vs1 battle. Zoro and Sanji are obvious but beyond that, guys like the main minks, Law, Kid, Kinemon + Momo are emotionally more invested than the Strawhats and also have fitting opponents currently.
    The Strawhats might get their individual focus within the huge battle akin to Fishman Island battle, but not completely separate individual fights.
    I actually doubt we will get such fights until the battle against Blackbeard.

  9. #6029

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Besides, who is going to fight who?

    Is Momo vs Orochi even viable?

    Orochi's forces have been a little too thin for my tastes, the Oniwabanshu who were dispersed by Nami and Brook, and Kyoshiro who already betrayed him with the fake killing of Komurasaki.

    Big Mom's forces should have reunited with her by this point, but it's not the full family, notably Smoothie, Peros, Compote and Mont'dor, but with Brullee up and running, those numbers can change suddenly.

    And then Kaido, with the calamities, the surviving headliners, the numbers and Apoo. Well, and the smile users army has to be worth something if it's Kaido's main strategy until now.

    Even with these numbers, and with a traitor on their midst, the clash feels that it will come down to Luffy vs Kaido and Big Mom, everyone else feels beatable already.
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  10. #6030

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Sengokusgoat View Post
    If anything she's too strong to get fights. ''Power and speed are meaningless against me''. I think she's said that several times. The problem is her powerset is not very fitting for 1vs1 fights. If she's strong enough to overpower the enemy, she can easily win. But if she isn't, then there's not much she can do either.
    I think her most interesting battle sequence was against Crocodile. She had a way to win, but also couldn't use her usual quick methods. Long story short, it's a question of whether he wants to focus on her or not.

  11. #6031

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    From a narrative perspective, while displaying that Robin wasn't out of her league, Oda was able to showcase the Fleet commanders like Barto, Hajruden, Cavendish, etc. Usopp, Franky, and Zoro got their "1 vs 1", while Robin's status was maintained through protecting Rebecca and handling Cavendish. I don't think she needed a 1 vs 1. It would be boring if we got those for every main character in every arc.

    Oda has a knack for making the supporting cast the highlight at moments. I don't see it as hurting the main cast because he finds ways to address them. They were the highlights of Paradise and EB Saga. They still get their moments as Oda brings others into the fold. Look at WB's crew and allies. Karma got a moment and he wasn't even a "son" at that time and is considered an ally at MF. There's a way to maintain a balance of not neglecting your main cast and showing love to the newer support. Oda has done it well. I do question if this sense of neglect that some are seeing has to do with them thinking OP is almost over. Things like that can mess up perception of what's actually happening in story.

    A great example is WCI arc. Imagine trying to judge WCI arc as it gets closer to the end, then you're constantly thinking about Reverie and Wano. Your judgement and perception can become skewed due to impatience and fatigue. Just like if you think the story is almost over and think that there's not enough time to get more of the main crew.

  12. #6032
    Queen's got the Funk Roronoa Zacho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    As Long as no BB-member steals Aluvida's powers, she is the Nemesis to Robin's powers.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    But with her "giant-moveset" she can perform attacks kinda like Luffy's pre-TS Gear3rd-form. But without drawbacks of course. (°-°)
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  13. #6033

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Not quite! The Dresserossa fights, while going to others, were maybe half a chapter each for the side character. Other people got fights, but they didn't get the extended 2-4 solid chapter focus that the Strawhats would.

    Like the Lao G fight, fighting Don Chinjao, Baby 5, and Sai was about a chapter, and it covered character stuff on all three of those guys, and the actual fight fight was 4 or 5 pages between all of them.

    Gladius and Dellinger versus Cavendish, Bart, and Robin, was about two chapters.

    Compare that to Usopp versus Sugar or Zoro versus Pica, those both took a lot of time and got intersperced among other action, and Luffy versus Dofla was many many chapters.

    Go back to Water 7. How much page time did Paulie's fight get versus anything any of the strawhats got into? A couple pages rather than chapters to itself.

    Side characters got side fights. But those were all one or two moves apiece, and done very quickly. A dedicated Strawhat fight has multiple phases, give and take, desperation, and will take several weeks by itself. That's the difference.


    We're likely going to see similar in Wano. The samurai and minks will all get fights, but they'll be quick affairs mostly while Strawhats get big battles.
    It's funny because Sanji got some ''side character'' fights ever since post ts started, how many years ago. A few pages battles at most.

  14. #6034

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Is the “bad box art mega man effect” an inocent and even fun joke or inclusion is anger inducing because it comes after years of neglect.

    If iT was zoro who got benched in dresrosa and was just on bodyguard duty or he went to keep the birdcage controlled since the beginning, it would have felt better because he gets a fight every arc that he’s in.

    But it is robin who’s wining battles vs named characters after joining the crew are: Yamma and Hammond. You could include Spandam and Hakuba (who she could have crushed like a bug if she wanted right there)
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  15. #6035

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Robin tells us what the PGs say and that is better than a fight imo

  16. #6036

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    This is a shonen manga tho, fights aren’t just punches and kicks, but characters baring their life ideologies there and then in order to prove themselves that their path or dedication is what they want to do.

    And death note, Bakuman, shokugeki no soma, dr stone, and every sport series keep proving that isn’t about violence, but about overcoming a challenge.

    Last two phoneglyphs were one in the middle of a national park, and the other one in a secret catacomb that Robin got invited into. Like right now there is a possible interesting moment where she infiltrates Kaido’s vault for the third red stone.

    Robin’s last two reads have been “go here, read that thing that you already know how to read”, compare with her two archeological bouts right when she joined, that she identified the content of the ship and tracked down the site where the bell originally was, while not all islands will have ancient ruins, that deductive reasoning could be spiced on top of some chapters to show Robin doing <something >, she got the butload of intel, but we only saw her getting caught, and not fight.
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  17. #6037
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Cockycent View Post
    Robin tells us what the PGs say and that is better than a fight imo
    Good thing SH come across those pretty often.
    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

    It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

  18. #6038

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    We also never get the true text or experience Robin's attempt to understand what is written in the ponegliphs. We always get the redux version of the vital information given by Robin to the others. So we can never experience together with her the effort of making sense of an old text with a messege divided between many stones. I still don't know to this day what the ponegliph from Alabasta contained about Pluton. Did it tell it's location? And where is this? Alabasta or old Water 7 (where the blueprints were and where it was made)???

    Also, if we the readers had had access to the text about Poseidon it would be awesome to see Robin guess correctly that it was a mermaid. It would help us feel part of the effort of dechipering (which is supposed to be Robin's moments)

  19. #6039
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Chams View Post
    Also, if we the readers had had access to the text about Poseidon it would be awesome to see Robin guess correctly that it was a mermaid. It would help us feel part of the effort of dechipering (which is supposed to be Robin's moments)
    Think that would have been cool. For example, she could find it weird that Poseidon was referred to with a pronoun that is also used for persons, or something along those lines. Just remember how many misconceptions were born over the years due to slight miss translations of OP itself.

    Don't really see how translating PG makes up for the lack of seeing Robin in action. Since we aren't involved in the process. She looks at signs, we get the gist of it, moving on...
    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

    It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

  20. #6040

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Robin is of a few that can do what she does. Fill in some blanks for the crew at times due to being more well informed, plus reading the PGs. Just like Sanji is the only one that could've helped with the cake in the way he did. There's no problem in not being able to see why that is better than a 3 chapter fight for the bigger picture.

    I like this convo a lot and it reveals a lot about perspective. What did Pica vs Zoro do for the story as a whole that trumps Robin's PG findings?

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