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Thread: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

  1. #5901
    Arf. (ᵔᴥᵔ) FelRes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Absolutely none of you even know what you're arguing about anymore.
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  2. #5902

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by FelRes View Post
    Absolutely none of you even know what you're arguing about anymore.
    To not take a lightly stated detail as the entire story as your default position, especially when there's suspicious or unusual things about it.
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  3. #5903
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by andre View Post
    What is the basis of this theory?
    Well why not?

    There was an ancient empire, and then it was overthrown by people. Supposedly kings, but who knows. Would be funny if WG worried about piracy so much partly because their own originators were pirates who managed to take down a big empire.
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  4. #5904
    Queen's got the Funk Roronoa Zacho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Donald Trump is the president of the United States.

    That does not mean he was actually chosen or popularly elected to that position. or that he earned the right to be there, or that anything he does is actually in the best interest of the United States or that his loyalties aren't actually to Russia. Nor does it make him the most powerful man, the smartest, or the most respected or the best politician. But still he is the president, he has that rank despite not really being presidential by any standard..

    The nuances and distinctions matter.

    A fact can be 100% true but still be wrong or different. Especially in a story, where its the author's job to decieve and surprise and change what you thought you knew.
    Why do you bring up RL-politics as example, when you could have just written:
    "Momo is Kinemon's son, anyone?" (jk)
    I do get your Point though. But if we can't take any written line of this manga for granted, then anyone could speculate the Living $hit out of this Story.
    And why do I then get a "there is 0 evidence to that", when I bring up the idea of a 3rd tree "of Serpent" (1st being Adam tree and 2nd being Eve tree) which could be the origin of any DF around?
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  5. #5905

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    I want to ask you a question Greg. I re-read the entire series this past summer and noticed that the calendar year in One piece is placed in the 'Age of Kaien'. It's interesting, because calendars in stories often mark year 0 in the current epoch on the calendar based on a world changing event. In our world, for example, the birth of Christ was considered such a monumental event. It's interesting because the calendar year in One Piece is currently 1500 something. Noland sailed in the year 1100 something, which was 400 years before the current story. Joy Boy was said to have made a promise to the Mermaid Princess around the start of the Void Century, 900 years ago. Yet, the message to her was written on the Fishman Island Poneglyph stone. Given what we now know about their origins in Wano, it would seem likely that the apology was placed at the end of the void century. Meaning, the void century occurred between the years 600 - 700 in the Age of Kaien. The World Gov was founded around year 700. Zunesha has been walking for 1000 years, starting around the year 500. What's notable is that, in the world of One Piece, whatever event marks year 0 is considered so important, that even the birth of the World Government, ruled by people who consider themselves literal gods among men, was not significant enough to restart the dating system. They voided out 100 years of history and still didn't start history anew. You would think a missing century would be even easier to hide if the calendar year started with the birth of the Gov. If Zunesha is related in some way to Imu, it would make sense that Imu was alive even further back than the void century. Do you think there is any significance to the 'Age of Kaien' dating system? What could this word 'Kaien' signify? I think the fact that the dating system goes back before the void century and the fact that Zunesha’s origins, likely also a key piece of information, mean that whatever is happening in the One Piece world extends further back in history before the void century, as critical as that period of time is to establishing the current world order. Just wondering if you have any insight.
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  6. #5906
    Queen's got the Funk Roronoa Zacho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    That's kinda weird with the calendar tbh. Despite how "divine" and "unfailable" the WG tries to be, they didn't establish their own calendar. Maybe themselves didn't know/couldn't predict how "big" their alliance would become.
    They started out as 20 kings (with a secret king/pope/oracle among them, who is totally cool with being kept a secret king/pope/oracle).
    North Korea for example did so with an own calendar.

    Another interesting Thing is:
    the WG could accumulate even more countries than the 173 they already have, but the "taxes" are too high for poor countries.
    Last edited by Roronoa Zacho; October 17th, 2019 at 06:17 AM.
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  7. #5907

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Well, that's true. They have clearly devised a taxation system which concentrates wealth in the hands of the Celestial Dragons, ensuring the citizens of the world will fight over intentionally limited resources. Which allowed someone like Doflamingo to make himself and his underworld network essential to the maintenance of the established status quo.

    Doing a little research, I have found different meanings for the word 'Kaien' - I don't know Japanese though, so I can't say which is correct. One I have found is 'Opening' or 'Start', and another is 'Deep Ocean'

    I mean, the fact that the calendar year doesn't start with the birth of the Government is interesting in itself. But perhaps understanding the meaning of the word might offer some insight as to the significance to the One Piece world.
    Luffy, Zoro, Nami, Usopp, Sanji, Chopper, Robin, Franky, Brook, Jimbei, Carrot, Vivi, Smoker

    "ONE PIECE, IT EXISTS" - The Great Pirate Edward Newgate

  8. #5908

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    They sure don't conduct themselves as people who think that they are gods. Whatever they are they are clearly different from the inbred assholes like Charlos. And the battle scars suggest that they have lived outside of the gilded cage

  9. #5909

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Roronoa Zacho View Post
    Why do you bring up RL-politics as example, when you could have just written:
    "Momo is Kinemon's son, anyone?" (jk)
    Because I had already given multiple manga related examples and that was apparently not registering.

    I do get your Point though. But if we can't take any written line of this manga for granted, then anyone could speculate the Living $hit out of this Story.
    That's not the point. It's not "that line is a lie and you should ignore it." It's "that line tells us something, but is it telling the whole story? What leeway is Oda leaving for there to be more?""

    It's about keeping an open mind on what's presented and seeing where that could potentially be expanded. As long as you aren't making up a theory from whole cloth reliant on a thousand different maybes and complete personal opinion that you have to fanfic (see the nakama thread for endless examples) and aren't super married to an idea, its fine to keep an open mind.

    Neither me or Greg are saying "woah, those are not actually Celestial Dragons at all, Oda NEVER said that!" We're saying "How much did Oda actually tell us there? IS there room for that to not be exactly what it seems when it comes to these completely mysterious individuals who have been in the story for decades that we know nothing about, who seem completely different from everyone else in that group we have met thus far?"

    For example. It's a long standing theory that, "Hey, maybe the D's are from the moon orginally. And then inbred, and the D is actually a half moon." It's a cool idea, it fits with some of the other wordplay Oda has done, and is supported by Enel's cover story. I promote that idea, its cool. Am I married to it? Am I 100% sure that's exactly how it will be and willing to stake my entire reputation on it? Will I be disappointing if thats not what happens? Nope! But its fun to look at some of the seeds Oda has planted, combined with his writing patterns, and try to extrapolate.

    And why do I then get a "there is 0 evidence to that", when I bring up the idea of a 3rd tree "of Serpent" (1st being Adam tree and 2nd being Eve tree) which could be the origin of any DF around?
    First I've heard of it that I can recall. Seems legit to me. Oda did choose those religious names and use the term devil, and Christianity is a fairly large religion in Japan. Seems reasonable to me, though I don't know if he'd actually go that far to have a modern religion ultimately be the source of evil in his story? (Compared to using things like Poseidon, Pluton and Uranus...) Serpent might be too on the nose, but maybe Lilith?

    But yeah, seems like a fair guess and extrapolation to me. If we already know there are two trees with a specific naming system, why not a third?
    Last edited by Robby; October 17th, 2019 at 09:41 AM.
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  10. #5910

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Greg do you have any idea how the straw hats can possibly beat Two Yonko crews? I mean one seemed impossible enough, the five elder stars have always been terrified of this happening, and they have the entire Marines and until recently the seven warlords at there helm, how can the Straw hats possibly compete with that? Are they gonna get some sort of ally that will help turn the tables at least a little bit in there favor? All I can think of is the Grand Fleet maybe the remaining White Beard pirates the new power Vega Punk came up with or maybe something else I'm missing entirely

    Also this has nothing to do with this arc but do you see Crocodile returning to the series anytime soon, and at what capacity, an enemy an ally? I mean we have to see his gender bending backstory at some point right?

  11. #5911
    Queen's got the Funk Roronoa Zacho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    There is another example of Oda kinda "duped" us:
    When we first met Laboon, he had all those scars on his head and Crocus said:"poor whale, tossing his head against the redline, cause he is missing his piwate fwiendz!"
    When we saw that school of Laboons after FI, a lot of them had those scars. So either all of them "lost piwate cwew fwiends" OR Crocus misinterpreted Laboons behaviour and that is a common Thing those giant whales do,
    which is indicating, that the Redline hasn't Always looked like it does now (being made partially artificial).

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    They sure don't conduct themselves as people who think that they are gods. Whatever they are they are clearly different from the inbred assholes like Charlos. And the battle scars suggest that they have lived outside of the gilded cage
    But this might indicate that those Five are way older than the likes of Charlos. Old-school-CDs, if you want to. I also have the Impression that Tequila Wolf (as harsh and inhuman as it even now Looks) once was an ambitious Project to connect Islands (like the sea Train does now), so a "well-meant" Project. Of Course they underestimated the size of this Project. But IMHO the initial Intention of Tequila Wolf wasn't a bad one.
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  12. #5912

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    The 5 Elders I think they are Celestial Dragons, but they absolutely do not act like them. But I absolutely cannot see them being some magnanimous individuals. They were basically openingly talking about a "culling" that's mass genocide to me. So their definitely the "Bad" guys, because Luffy our protagonist will always be against something like that.

    Making the case their much older then they appear? I think is very likely. But maybe their so old that even though they might have been apart of the force that defeated the Ancient Kingdom, that they don't really consider themselves Celestial Dragons? Because I'm guessing the name Celestial Dragon was something that came after they won.

    But it's definitely interesting to think about.

  13. #5913

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    And there's the problem and why that line of thinking rarely leads to productive predictions.

    One Piece: Sabo is dead.
    One Piece Data Book: Sabo is dead.

    By the above logic, we should all have put on blinders and assumed Sabo was dead despite everything about the series at that point suggesting otherwise.

    My mantra has been, it's a storyteller's job to be a BS artist. The need to tell a story that surprises you, not one where you expect every beat. The best mangaka are glorious BS artists because they don't even lie to tell their story, in fact they work largely in truth. It's just that those truthes are skillfully presented in very specific ways and from very specific points of view in order to obscure the entire picture. I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just relating this out of experience and someone who's worked with the series and whose work is vetted by the editors every other week. 'They're the Highest Authority of the CDs' does not mean, 'They're CDs'. A donkey could be the mayor of a town of humans, but it doesn't make the donkey a human.

    Do you understand what I'm trying to express? Sometimes I'm not the best at getting things across but I hope you see what I mean and also that I'm not hardset on them *not* being CDs. Just open to the idea that they might not actually be them and most importantly, despite the Revos wanting to take down the heirarchy, it doesn't mean they're against them as humans.
    No, no don't get me wrong.I am reading OP long enough to understand( to some extent at least) and be prepared for the ambiguities Oda plays with deliberately.There have been quite a few occasions,as discussed by several posters above, which proves that taking any info on face value doesn't pay in the long run any more.What I am talking about is reader's predicament.If I put it in a question answer format, it should be like this:
    Q: Who are Gorosei?
    A: They run WG and rule over CDs.
    Q:How can they sit above/rule over CDs?
    A: They are supposedly CD themselves and act as their leaders.

    So, if I have to answer with known fact, I cant get any further presently.While ambiguity is already been there,choices are limited as of now. It doesn't mean that one can't theorise that they are really something else and what has been presented till now is how 'common' people of 'OP world' generally think.
    Considering the secrecy Oda put around them for so long, it is only natural to suspect about their true status.Also the way they dress and behave set them apart from any CD( whether it is gullible like Mjosgard or Homing or scoundrel like Roswald family).While them being pure CD would bring some character and dimesion to these nobles, other solutions will be quite dramatic too.
    “When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.”


  14. #5914
    Discovered Stowaway andre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    I think if they're Celestial Dragons, it's an honorary thing. I have three reasons that seem strong enough for me.

    - They don't wear the suits.
    - They are culturally diverse.
    - They have scars. That implies scuffles with someone for some reason.
    If they're immortal, then this is all moot, of course. Otherwise, I think we'd have to learn some pretty shocking things about the Dragons to believe they are the age they look and just descended like the others.

  15. #5915
    Queen's got the Funk Roronoa Zacho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by andre View Post
    I think if they're Celestial Dragons, it's an honorary thing. I have three reasons that seem strong enough for me.

    - They don't wear the suits.
    - They are culturally diverse.
    - They have scars. That implies scuffles with someone for some reason.
    If they're immortal, then this is all moot, of course. Otherwise, I think we'd have to learn some pretty shocking things about the Dragons to believe they are the age they look and just descended like the others.
    I got a Pretty funny head-canon on how 2 of them came to their scars.
    The scars leave some Options though:
    -they are former FAs from the Navy (or another high rank from the CPs)
    -they are really from a time where they had to "fight"

    as fake as all the empty-throne-speech was, you can assume those 20 original weapons are quite the weapons the 20 founder kings wielded.
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  16. #5916

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    I think the Five Elders are Celestial Dragons. My interpretation of it all is that the average World Noble is happy to live a life of hedonism, ignorance and cruelty and isn't really concerned with running the world or guiding its politics. The Elders are just the handful of Celestial Dragons that have pursued an education and gained leadership skills and experience. Straight up, I find it hard to imagine them being allowed to have the positions and influence they have without being Celestial Dragons. There's no other way.

    It's easy to imagine one of two scenarios. The first, that there don't have to be five Elders and different generations of nobles have had different numbers of Elders based on how many are actually interested in taking on any kind of responsibility for the world they claim to be gods of. The other, that being an Elder is a lifetime appointment and when a slot opens up the remaining four have to approve the new pick.

    But this is all loose impressions mixed with headcanon to fill the gaps. The whole upper echelon of the World Government is still so mysterious we can't really do more than that for now.

  17. #5917

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Still stand by the notion that the Elders are immortals from the void century, probably generals or whatever that fought to bring down the ancient kingdom. I have a hard time picturing a way for the story to explain their scars, the guy with the sword, and their overall attitude (not to mention the fact that they looked exactly the same way during the Ohara flashback), if they have been born into the highest political sphere from the get-go or even are simply CDs from the highest-ranking families. Oda has made a point of constantly emphasizing how the CDs isolation from the world and position has made them spoiled, entitled pieces of shit, which is completely anathema to how the Elders are portrayed.

    Also I think it's weird to think the "gray morality" that some people think they displayed is somehow eroded by the existence of one leader they take orders from. It's as if Imu himself necessarily has to be an Orochi-tier villain, he couldn't possibly have any agency or complicated thoughts about the world, right?

  18. #5918

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Don‘t forget CD just don‘t wear their helmets while staying in MG (holy land). We have this fixed image of them wearing because we usually see the CD in the „outside world“. We have seen the five elders only in MG so far.

    Regarding their scars, maybe they are connected to the fight in god valley. They don‘t need to be immortal just for some skirmish.

  19. #5919

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by vlad Dracul View Post
    Don‘t forget CD just don‘t wear their helmets while staying in MG (holy land). We have this fixed image of them wearing because we usually see the CD in the „outside world“. We have seen the five elders only in MG so far.

    Regarding their scars, maybe they are connected to the fight in god valley. They don‘t need to be immortal just for some skirmish.
    Common CDs, even in Mari Geoise, definitely don't wear something like loincloth.
    Elders are different, even in their dressings. I bet they don't use those 'headgear' even when they come down from their abode.

    Also the question about their immortality is being raised because of how they looked like virtually the same( in silhouettes) during Ohara incident.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Shergal View Post
    Still stand by the notion that the Elders are immortals from the void century, probably generals or whatever that fought to bring down the ancient kingdom. I have a hard time picturing a way for the story to explain their scars, the guy with the sword, and their overall attitude (not to mention the fact that they looked exactly the same way during the Ohara flashback), if they have been born into the highest political sphere from the get-go or even are simply CDs from the highest-ranking families. Oda has made a point of constantly emphasizing how the CDs isolation from the world and position has made them spoiled, entitled pieces of shit, which is completely anathema to how the Elders are portrayed.

    Also I think it's weird to think the "gray morality" that some people think they displayed is somehow eroded by the existence of one leader they take orders from. It's as if Imu himself necessarily has to be an Orochi-tier villain, he couldn't possibly have any agency or complicated thoughts about the world, right?
    They need not to be that ancient. Out of 800 years since the formtion of WG, we mostly got the stories of past 40 years. Noland and Brook's pirate crew being the exception.If the elders are CDs, then they could be ex-ministers/royal commanders of the past.If they are commoners,they could be fleet admirals/Royal guards of bygone eras, now forgotten.Though I fully agree with Greg that they were perhaps quite badass in their times.
    “When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.”


  20. #5920

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Hi Greg! Hello Guys!

    I just watched the East Blue Saga (again in Onepace) and I realized that the Rocks Pirates and Yonko are foreshadowed in East Blue Saga. I was inspired with your theories and speculations every week. I read all your comments in spoiler thread and here and other thread. I'm just not good in grammar so I can't engage with you guys. So here's what I've observed.

    Big Mom - Alvida (Untouchable - fat to getting sexy / (BM) sexy to getting fat)
    Mohji - Kaido (Beast trainer vs Beast lover)
    Lion pet - Shiki (lion)
    Mr. 3 - Whitebeard (white and fire (ace))
    Captain John - The treasure
    Shanks - Cabaji (sword and left eye)

    And here's my full explanation. I'm so excited to share this I end up creating a channel. Please bear my grammar. It's not my first language. I created this channel so I can practice my communication skills. Blackbeard was foreshadowed too. And Shanks! So I think Rocks will be like Buggy but in different way or not.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFSaywENuPM
    The Buggy Pirates are parallel to Rocks Pirates. Oda is G!

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