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Thread: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

  1. #5881

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Nineteen years ago we didn't know Luffy had a brother.
    Eighteen years ago we knew Ace was Luffy's brother.
    Fourteen years ago we found out who Luffy's father and grandfather were.
    Eleven years ago we knew Ace wasn't related to Luffy and actually the son of Roger.
    Nine years ago we knew Luffy had a second brother.
    We still don't know anything about Luffy's mother.

    And that's the MAIN CHARACTER.

    None of this contradicts what we knew before. But it was further details we the audience didn't have, even though we THOUGHT we had a full clear picture of something that seemed simple and straightforward. . Until we didn't.

    Heck, we've only recently gotten things like Imu and Rocks shaking things up and messing with the narrative we thought we had a clear understanding of now.

    Are Sabo and Ace Luffy's brothers? Is Nojiko Nami's sister and Bellemere her mother? Is Koby technically a pirate since he started on a pirate crew? Is Sanji's father Zeff or some asshole in a mask?

    In a series that is ALL ABOUT the family you choose being more important than blood, consistently, as a running theme since the series' start? And also has a long running mystery of a bloodline with the whole D. thing?

    Yes, it's absolutely important to question things like "are those guys there by blood or by choice or by circumstance. Are they actually what they seem." You can't take a seemingly straightforward text box for granted on something like that.
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  2. #5882

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Well, I find it perfectly normal to assume them CDs until further clarifications.Known information and conjectures are two different things. Wording was pretty clear of what Oda wanted us to believe,for now.
    “When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.”


  3. #5883
    Queen's got the Funk Roronoa Zacho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    So we are discussing wether or not the Gorousei are CDs, because once one of them showed resentment towards the destruction of Ohara?
    Thats ok. But Right before another gorousei ordered Clover's death.
    And they took the Nefertaris as traitors, cause they decided to stay in the lower world and asked unpleasant Questions.
    Of Course, they seem more reasonable than your average scumbag-CD, but Maybe this underlines the speculation of them being waaay older than the average scumbag-CD.
    Pappugg once said all that power and being worshipped for 800yrs made the CDs go completely bonkers.
    So we have to consider that the original 20 founding kings weren't as scumbaggish as the CDs are now. Wapol's dad wasn't as cruel as his son (at least from what i took of ch. 0).
    I think what Wapol said during the Reverie can be quoted here as well: "The higher you go up, the more you notice how f'd up this world is".
    We also witness what power does with People over a Long period of time (CDs riding humans and so on).
    There are good CDs out there though. Homing and Myosgard.
    We haven't enough insight into MJ yet to say wether or not the gorousei are CDs, but if there have been 20 kings, you can assume there had to be some Kind of inner core of those 20 kings.

    I mean, yeah, the gorousei could talk their heads out of Trouble once Things will go south for them. But guys, once Dragon finds out how the travelator works, they are screwed.
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  4. #5884

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Robby, everything you say would make sense until chapter 907. The dialogue reveals that the Gorousei ARE Celestial Dragons. I'm not talking about my personal guess, but about an information given by the chapter. Saying that the Gorousei are not Celestial Dragons is like saying something random like Garp is not Luffy's grandfather.

    As auem just said, there is a difference between information and conjecture. We can sit here and say a lot of wild stuff that could be true or false, but for now we have a very literal box of information that we have no reason to dismiss. Sometimes we have evidence to doubt a given information, but for now nothing contradicts that the Gorousei are Celestial Dragons.

    And I'm not here denying the nuances that Oda may be saving for their characters. I'm open to any development that gives more depth to the Gorousei and the Tenryuubito. Oda can talk about their blood, about their personal circunstance to rise to that higher position, about their immortality, and even put the Gorousei as the good guys for protecting the world against worse villains. I'm not rejecting any of this. Once again and for the last time, I'm just saying that we've seen that they are Celestial Dragons and that they stand for their people.

  5. #5885
    Queen's got the Funk Roronoa Zacho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    What would be cool to witness would be the WG's attempt of another cleansing.
    Sakazuki said they don't have the forces to deal with the situation on Wano.
    Coby also stated that sth big is going on and by context he can't just mean capturing the warlords.
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  6. #5886

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    People keep saying things about luffys mom with Dadan there just doing bandit things. Luffys birth mom is probably dead, so she has around the same participation as Dragon in luffys life. Garp, Dadan, Ace, Sabo, the bandits, the villagers, those were luffys family, no matter how much of a mistery Oda wants to make his birth mom.
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  7. #5887
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by maxterdexter View Post
    People keep saying things about luffys mom with Dadan there just doing bandit things. Luffys birth mom is probably dead, so she has around the same participation as Dragon in luffys life. Garp, Dadan, Ace, Sabo, the bandits, the villagers, those were luffys family, no matter how much of a mistery Oda wants to make his birth mom.
    Why make it a mystery if she's been dead all along? One line would have covered that.

    Instead it's likely going to be a huge plot point. Ace's mother didn't have any participation in his life either. But without her sacrifice...
    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
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  8. #5888
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    Why make it a mystery if she's been dead all along? One line would have covered that.

    Instead it's likely going to be a huge plot point. Ace's mother didn't have any participation in his life either. But without her sacrifice...
    This reminds me that Dragon witnessed Roger's execution and (probably) said to Luffy's mother:
    "C'mon, let's make the next pirate king!" Took a few years and shots though. XD
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  9. #5889

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    Robby, everything you say would make sense until chapter 907. The dialogue reveals that the Gorousei ARE Celestial Dragons. I'm not talking about my personal guess, but about an information given by the chapter. Saying that the Gorousei are not Celestial Dragons is like saying something random like Garp is not Luffy's grandfather.
    The dialogue in ALabasta also reveals that Ace is Luffy's brother.

    It doesn't reveal that's adopted brother, who their fathers are, or that there is a third brother.

    Arlong was unleashed on East Blue by that shichibukai monster Jinbe. Oh wait, it wasn't like that at all.
    CP-9 was the ultimate secret branch of government fighters. Oh wait, there's also a CP-0.
    The elder stars are the head of the world. Oh wait, there's Im.
    Haki is a thing that exists. Oh, that's actually tied into a bunch of other abilities we saw along the way!

    Just because you are given a detail doesn't mean you are given the whole story. And especially when that handful of characters acts very different from all the others we have seen?

    Okay, the text says they are celestial dragons. But... are they Ancient Celestial Dragons? Are they Fake Celestial Dragons? Do they predate the current crop? Do they actually have the bloodline or just the title?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxterdexter View Post
    Luffys birth mom is probably dead,
    What makes you say that?

    She may not have had any part in Luffy's life, and Dadan is clearly the unofficial adopted mother which is all that counts but... nothing implies that she is dead beyond not being with Dragon at the moment.

    SHould we also have assumed that Sanji's father was dead and he had no siblings just because they were never seen until they were? We know Franky's father was a pirate and nothing else, so what does that mean?

    There is a TON we just don't *actually* know.
    Last edited by Robby; October 16th, 2019 at 07:01 AM.
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  10. #5890

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    It's totally cool mate, didn't mean you or anyone here in particular.





    Unless there's something I'm forgetting, the goal of the Revolutionaries isn't specifically about a beef with the Stars. It's about uniting people against the establishment of a centralized system of authority, an authority which is probably in place to spare life on the planet. Depends how much Dragon does/doesn't knoz about the world but I believe he's an optimist who thinks that once united, ppl can overcome whatever IMU is/has. The Stars have probably experienced first-hand what IMU is capable of and believe in their heart of hearts that appeasing it is the only way.

    Enter Luffy.

    "What? I don't care who or what you are, don't interrupt my adventure!"

    Sorry, this is a much longer post than I intended. A lot of speculation / theories. If you want, you can skip over a lot, but I do have an actual question in the last paragraph. It’s sort of predicated on some of the stuff I talked about in previous parts of the post, however.

    Ah okay, cool. Anyway, I agree that the Elders will be three dimensional characters, not mustache twirling villains. Their ultimate motivation is yet to be seen. I think the ideas you have mentioned are certainly a possibility. As I had said in my previous post, in the past I really didn't expect the Elders to be Celestial Dragons themselves based on their battle scars. I had imagined them more like high ranking parliamentary members (sort of like the relationship between a monarch and prime minister). Admittedly, that is still a possibility as you have pointed out. However, after seeing the description of their position in Reverie and learning more about the Donquixote Family, I lean toward them actually being Celestial Dragons. If they were all shown to be inbred morons like St. Charlos, I would lean the other way. However, given that some of the Celestial Dragons rational, I think it's less likely they would cede any authority in terms of Governance to lesser nobles or ordinary citizens. They seem to limit such people to military / service positions within the World Gov.

    I think the questions largely hinge upon how many people know about Imu.

    Like, if I can speculate, I would say that the original 20(19) Kings made a pact with Imu to topple the Lost Civilization during the void century. Maybe they knew, maybe they didn't about Imu's ultimate goal or intention. Going with your theory about the Elders motivation, I could see it as the 20 Kings didn't really know who / what they were really dealing with and ultimately chose poorly. For most of the current Celestials, ignorance is bliss, while a select few are fully cognizant of what is going on. I have some theories about who / what Imu could be, but it's a bit beyond the scope of what we're discussing here - and there really isn't any strong evidence.

    I used to think the D's were descendants of the Lost Civilization, but I think that's less likely now. If they were, and that was understood by those in power, I imagine they would be hunted down and killed like Jedi during the rule of the Empire. Yet it is a name that clearly holds meaning. Rocinante called them the enemies of the 'gods' (the false gods - the Celestial Dragons), but that meaning would seem to be not fully known or understood by those in power. It was hinted that Sengoku might know more.

    Rather, I think the D’s are likely related to Joy Boy. Maybe there are different family names because there was a crew of pirates / adventurers who weren't part of the 20 Kings or the Lost Civilization (or a group of people from around the world, including a giant from Elbaf, which could possibly have also contained members of both warring factions) - a group in the middle who tried to stop the war and save the world, but were ultimately unsuccessful. Maybe the descendants of that group of people are the D's. Maybe there was an original Monkey, Gol, Portgas, Jaguar, Marshall, Trafalgar, Rocks, etc. who tried to stop whatever happened in the void century, but failed. They later took on the D. as a secret name symbolizing their friendship and their will to one day set things right. They worked with the Kozuki clan to pass on their message through the Poneglyphs and left the stones with allies around the world (Shandora, Fishman Island, Alabasta, etc.). Ultimately, One Piece is the key to stopping Imu, left to the proper successor who will 'shoulder centuries of history', to set the world right. Roger discovered that truth, but was also ultimately unsuccessful.

    Rayleigh hints that they made an attempt to challenge the world (“perhaps we were too hasty”). I call this my ‘Roger Incident’ theory, but I think there’s one critical question which leads credence to the idea that there is a major event in which Roger played his hand and tried, but failed. Why do the people in the world of One Piece know the treasure as One Piece? We know that the name has actual significance as Oda has stated. Roger did not call it One Piece at his execution. So not only do we have to ask the question, ‘why is it called One Piece?’, but also ‘how does the world know to call the treasure One Piece?’. I believe that name became known when Roger challenged the world, but was ultimately unsuccessful. Playing his hand made the Elders aware of the knowledge he possessed, branding him and anyone who ever associated with him a criminal worthy of death. I believe this incident is also where he spoke the bit about freedom, dreams, and inherited will which Dragon quotes in Chapter 100. Perhaps this is the event which sparked revolutionary sentiment in a young Monkey D. Dragon? I’ve also got a feeling something happened between Luffy’s grandmother and the Celestial Dragons. It would explain why both Garp and Dragon hate the Celestial Dragons and could also explain why Dragon has hidden Luffy’s mother from the world. Maybe.


    Back to the point…

    This is obviously, entirely conjecture. What I imagine is as follows:

    -Lost Civilization possesses the ancient weapons Pluton, Poseidon, and Uranus. Really interesting now that we know Poseidon was the Mermaid Princess of the time. "Possess" doesn't necessarily mean ownership. Could have been an alliance

    -Right or wrong (jury's out; will have to learn more to know for certain), they were viewed as a threat; Largely because of the ancient weapons

    -The 20 Kings banded together to wipe out the civilization. I lean toward there being some legitimacy to the threat they posed based on the fact that the Alabastan monarch of the time agreed to the alliance which wiped out the civilization and formed the world Government, but declined to join the Celestial Dragons on Marijoa. It is, however, possible that Imu instigated indirectly or misled some or all of the 20 Kings regarding the danger posed by the Lost Civilization. Again, jury is out, but I am open to the idea that even though they are the victims of whatever atrocity birthed the World Gov and is covered over by the void century, the Lost Civilization weren't necessarily the 'good guys' lost to history as had been my preconceived notion during the CP9 saga.

    -My speculation is that the 20 Kings allied with Imu, but initially didn't really understand the entity with whom they joined. They found out when whatever happened that made them void out 100 years of history happened.

    -19 of the 20 decided to go along with Imu and live as gods above mortal men in the Holy Land Marijoa, while 1 family declined. We're supposed to be attached to the Nefertari family as particularly noble given our investment in Vivi as a character. Thus, this would sort of signify to readers that the Lost Civilization was doing something wrong and needed to be stopped, but the methods used by the 20 Kings were also wrong and that joining them to live as gods would have been the immoral choice.

    -The Nefertari ruler thought it was the right thing to stop the Lost Civilization, but the wrong thing to join the Celestial Dragons in Marijoa. This allows for a mixture of motives in the Celestial Dragons. It could be a degree of fear of Imu's true power, as you indicated. It could also be that they legitimately viewed themselves as gods. I think that there has to be some element of the latter, at least on the part of the original 20 Kings / rulers as that sentiment has been passed on to their descendants. More on that in a later point.

    -Joy Boy and his group were in the middle; The heroes of the void century. They failed, but their will lives on. They took on the name D. and have passed their will through the generations. They are the enemies of the 'gods' in Marijoa. Hence, as simple as it is, I think the D. stands for Devil. If the devils in Marijoa call themselves gods, then their enemies, the heroes of the story, will call themselves devils.
    I also think that perhaps the devil fruit were created using souls of people and that their origin is likely during the void century. Whether they are creations of Imu or the Lost Civilization remains to be seen. Maybe Imu created them from the lost civilization.
    My theory is that the Devil Fruit were created by Imu as the means of destroying the Lost Civilization. They were made from living people's souls (explaining the myth of the souls of the fruit battling inside a person if two are eaten which Jabra tells during Enies Lobby), maybe the horrific act which caused the Nefertari ruler to back out. But Imu, the devil posing as a god, is a trickster. He gave them the power to wipe out the civilization, but ultimately they're mortal beings. When they die, the power of the fruit is lost and regrows elsewhere in the world. The soul of the fruit passes to another user and is distributed randomly throughout the world. Thus, the Celestial Dragons were a useful tool to help Imu climb to his current position, but they could not keep the power, else they become a threat. Their power was thus distributed, randomly, to the world precipitating centuries of fighting.

    -800 Years pass; Maybe the modern Celestial Dragons have lost their history, same as the world. They are entitled, spoiled, child-like monsters who treat the world and the people like their property. They aren't any more aware of the atrocities of the Void century than the average citizen. They're the epitome of inherited wealth / status in that they have been raised to consider themselves gods and carry themselves as such. They would have no reason to question why they should regard themselves as gods as it is all they have ever known. There are likely a select few involved in Governance (the Elders), who are privileged with information regarding Imu and the history of the world. The reason I lean toward them being Celestials themselves is because there are some who have shown a degree of rationality (Homing, Doflamingo, etc.) If they've got the 'talent' in house, I can't see them ceding any authority to an outside power.
    What leads me to believe that Imu is privileged information within Marijoa is Doflamingo's comments regarding the secret treasure of Marijoa. Thus, my comparison to Kaido and Orochi. Orochi rules Wano, yes, but only because Kaido had the power to take over the country in the first place. Kaido needs Wano to work toward his own goals, while Orochi rules over the people of Wano. I think the Celestials are similarly granted authority by the power Imu possesses.

    So let's say that only a few are allowed into the inner circle and privileged with full knowledge of history. Perhaps it's sobering to learn of the power that Imu possesses. They are tasked then with governance as Imu works toward his goals. Their response then could be, as you said, to try to preserve as many lives as they can. Going with this logic, perhaps they know that Imu will take drastic action if the world descends into chaos, and thus try to maintain order. Second option is that Imu needs the world balanced and they work to maintain the world as Imu desires it to be. Either way, I believe Imu poses an active threat to the world. Whether it is the possibility that whatever atrocity occurred in the void century will be repeated or another, even greater event, it has to be something that Luffy will want to take action in order to prevent or reverse. Also possible, they’re true believers with sincere faith in Imu. If they are indeed Celestials themselves, they could view themselves as gods, same as the rest of their cohort. In which case, perhaps they preserve peace with the understanding that whenever Imu does what he’s ultimately planning, the Celestial Dragons will be benevolently allowed to share in the spoils, granted immortality or true godhood by their Lord and Savior Imu. Or a combination of different motives. There are five of them. It would be interesting if their perspectives and core desires differed. EDIT: What if they're 'Elders' because they're the last of the original 20 Kings, still living after all this time? Maybe only a handful of the 20 Kings actually knew about Imu at the time the World Gov. was founded and the current Elders are their direct descendants, head of the five inner circle families? Just a thought...

    I feel like, this being fundamentally a pirate adventure story, it would make thematic sense for Joy Boy to be the proto-Roger as Roger is the proto-Luffy. The question of what / who Imu is, really is a mystery though. Could Imu be the sea devil, a common theme in pirate / seafaring stories? There could be a connection to the original 'cursed' Vander Decken given the relevance of Joy Boy and the Mermaid Princess to his story. Could Imu be related to the moon people? Maybe they're all related through the history of the world? Joy Boy could have been someone who sought freedom. Maybe there’s some connection to Pirate / Beehive / Hachinosu / Fullalead Island? Maybe Imu was once just a person, who made a deal with the devil (not so likely imo; I think Imu is more supernatural)? In any case, Joy Boy and a crew of pirates /adventurers standing up against overwhelming odds, forming bonds with people around the world, against an unstoppable evil force seeking to crush people’s dreams would be totally in line with the Roger and Straw Hat Pirates.

    To that point, I want to ask you a question Greg. I re-read the entire series this past summer and noticed that the calendar year in One piece is placed in the 'Age of Kaien'. It's interesting, because calendars in stories often mark year 0 in the current epoch on the calendar based on a world changing event. In our world, for example, the birth of Christ was considered such a monumental event. It's interesting because the calendar year in One Piece is currently 1500 something. Noland sailed in the year 1100 something, which was 400 years before the current story. Meaning, the void century occurred between the years 600 - 700 in the Age of Kaien. The World Gov was founded around year 700. Zunesha has been walking for 1000 years, starting around the year 500. What's notable is that, in the world of One Piece, whatever event marks year 0 is considered so important, that even the birth of the World Government, ruled by people who consider themselves literal gods among men, was not significant enough to restart the dating system. They voided out 100 years of history and still didn't start history anew. You would think a missing century would be even easier to hide if the calendar year started with the birth of the Gov. If Zunesha is related in some way to Imu, it would make sense that Imu was alive even further back than the void century. Do you think there is any significance to the 'Age of Kaien' dating system? What could this name 'Kaien' signify? I think the fact that the dating system goes back before the void century and the fact that Zunesha’s origins, likely also a key piece of information, mean that whatever is happening in the One Piece world extends further back in history before the void century, as critical as that period of time is to establishing the current world order.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    The dialogue in ALabasta also reveals that Ace is Luffy's brother.

    It doesn't reveal that's adopted brother, who their fathers are, or that there is a third brother.

    Arlong was unleashed on East Blue by that shichibukai monster Jinbe. Oh wait, it wasn't like that at all.
    CP-9 was the ultimate secret branch of government fighters. Oh wait, there's also a CP-0.
    The elder stars are the head of the world. Oh wait, there's Im.
    Haki is a thing that exists. Oh, that's actually tied into a bunch of other abilities we saw along the way!

    Just because you are given a detail doesn't mean you are given the whole story. And especially when that handful of characters acts very different from all the others we have seen?

    Okay, the text says they are celestial dragons. But... are they Ancient Celestial Dragons? Are they Fake Celestial Dragons? Do they predate the current crop? Do they actually have the bloodline or just the title?



    What makes you say that?

    She may not have had any part in Luffy's life, and Dadan is clearly the unofficial adopted mother which is all that counts but... nothing implies that she is dead beyond not being with Dragon at the moment.

    SHould we also have assumed that Sanji's father was dead and he had no siblings just because they were never seen until they were? We know Franky's father was a pirate and nothing else, so what does that mean?

    There is a TON we just don't *actually* know.
    To this point:


    Luffy
    -Who is his mother? Is she alive? Where is she?
    -Who is his grandmother?
    -What made Dragon turn revolutionary?
    -Why does Garp hate Celestial Dragons?

    Zoro
    -Is Koshiro from Wano? (Specific mention of sword dojos being shut down by Orochi 20 years ago; Zoro is 21 years old) Is he part of the Revolutionary Army?
    -Does he have living parents?
    -Is there a connection between Shimotsuki Village and the Shimotsuki clan of Wano?

    Nami
    -What island / country is she from? Nami is the second most prominent character in the series (second most chapter appearances). She even appears on the cover of the first chapter, despite appearing after Zoro in the story. Both Romance Dawn stories, early drafts of One Piece, contain proto-Nami characters. I feel like Oda could have more planned. Maybe Vira? It's a war torn country. Nami read a story about another military coup in Vira as they sailed from Cocoyashi Village to Logue Town. Noland set sail from Vira 400 years ago and it was stated to be a peaceful place.
    -What is Nami's family name? Is this information lost or is Nojiko old enough to remember?

    Usopp
    -What is his family name? Would be funny if it's Captain. Captain Usopp has been his real name all this time. Captain Yasopp and Captain Usopp

    Chopper
    -Where was the island Hiruluk visited? Is it the location Roger and Whitebeard met for the final time?

    Robin
    -Who was her father? What happened to him? Olvia was said to be 'carrying on her husband's wishes', when she set sail with the research team. This would have been 22 years ago in the story, 2 years after Roger's execution. Maybe there is a Roger Pirates connection?

    Franky
    -Who are his parents? Could they appear in the current story? They abandoned him at the age of 10 (4 years before Roger's execution) and were said to be powerful pirates. Maybe they will be allies of one of the remaining Emperors - Shanks or Blackbeard?

    Brook
    -What is the nation from which he set sail? Brook was said to be captain of the royal guard of 'a certain place' in the West Blue. Could this come up in the final war?
    -Is Calico Yorki Alive?

    Jimbei
    -is there a Wano connection? He starts wearing a kimono after Tiger's death.

    Am I missing anything? Sanji seems to be covered largely during Whole Cake Island, though I imagine the Vinsomke storyline is not yet resolved considering the way things were left as the Straw Hats escaped. Chopper isn't really a mystery, though I threw the question in there about Hiruluk as the Cherry Blossom island could be relevant to Chopper's dream.

    I didn't include future Straw Hats Vivi, Carrot, and Smoker on this list =P

    I feel like there is potential for all of the Straw Hats to enter the spotlight in a way similar to Sanji during Whole Cake Island in future arcs. In particular, I think Wano is a great opportunity to learn more about Zoro. Elbaf could shed some more light on Usopp. Nami has a real passion for saving defenseless people, particularly children, because of her traumatic childhood. Maybe we'll learn more about where she came from during the Great war. There's the big hanging plot thread about Sharley's prophecy, so opportunity for Jimbei to get the focus again. Brook's home and former position could be relevant in a global war. Germa could come up again in a Vegapunk focused arc given Judge's former position on the research team. Robin will be needed to learn the true history and uncover the deepest mysteries of One Piece. Franky's parents could come up at any point in the New World. Franky also rebuilt himself using Vegapunk's technology and understands better than anyone what happened to Kuma. Franky could be a prominent character in a future Vegapunk story (maybe a 'Vegapunk is really from the future' story...). Carrot's story is related to Zunesha, whose destination is likely significant. Smoker witnessed Roger's execution, but his disdain for the title Pirate signifies some deep rooted past trauma (aka tragic backstory). Pluton is possibly somewhere in Alabasta. Imu wants her light extinguished(?). The Nefertari refused to join the Celestial Dragons in Marijoa. Lots of big story elements are tied to Vivi.
    Last edited by Vongola_Boss_XI; October 16th, 2019 at 10:39 AM.
    Luffy, Zoro, Nami, Usopp, Sanji, Chopper, Robin, Franky, Brook, Jimbei, Carrot, Vivi, Smoker

    "ONE PIECE, IT EXISTS" - The Great Pirate Edward Newgate

  11. #5891

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    I still like the theory that the ancestor Celestial Dragons were all pirates.

  12. #5892
    Charismatic Awesome Joy Boy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Greg do you think that the lurking legend and biggest challenge of Luffy is the return of Rocks in Kaido and Mom teaming up ?


  13. #5893
    Discovered Stowaway andre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    I still like the theory that the ancestor Celestial Dragons were all pirates.
    What is the basis of this theory?

  14. #5894

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    I still like the theory that the ancestor Celestial Dragons were all pirates.
    Space Pirates originally commanded by Captain Ri D Ley.
    Folks who read One Piece... Just better people. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  15. #5895

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by RomanceDawn View Post
    Space Pirates originally commanded by Captain Ri D Ley.
    Kamui will always be my favorite space pirate, Ridley is a close second though

  16. #5896
    POE WUN BGR Greg's Avatar
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    Shadow Aaron Island

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Wording was pretty clear of what Oda wanted us to believe,for now.

    And there's the problem and why that line of thinking rarely leads to productive predictions.

    One Piece: Sabo is dead.
    One Piece Data Book: Sabo is dead.

    By the above logic, we should all have put on blinders and assumed Sabo was dead despite everything about the series at that point suggesting otherwise.

    My mantra has been, it's a storyteller's job to be a BS artist. The need to tell a story that surprises you, not one where you expect every beat. The best mangaka are glorious BS artists because they don't even lie to tell their story, in fact they work largely in truth. It's just that those truthes are skillfully presented in very specific ways and from very specific points of view in order to obscure the entire picture. I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just relating this out of experience and someone who's worked with the series and whose work is vetted by the editors every other week. 'They're the Highest Authority of the CDs' does not mean, 'They're CDs'. A donkey could be the mayor of a town of humans, but it doesn't make the donkey a human.

    Do you understand what I'm trying to express? Sometimes I'm not the best at getting things across but I hope you see what I mean and also that I'm not hardset on them *not* being CDs. Just open to the idea that they might not actually be them and most importantly, despite the Revos wanting to take down the heirarchy, it doesn't mean they're against them as humans.

  17. #5897

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    And there's the problem and why that line of thinking rarely leads to productive predictions.

    One Piece: Sabo is dead.
    One Piece Data Book: Sabo is dead.

    By the above logic, we should all have put on blinders and assumed Sabo was dead despite everything about the series at that point suggesting otherwise.

    My mantra has been, it's a storyteller's job to be a BS artist. The need to tell a story that surprises you, not one where you expect every beat. The best mangaka are glorious BS artists because they don't even lie to tell their story, in fact they work largely in truth. It's just that those truthes are skillfully presented in very specific ways and from very specific points of view in order to obscure the entire picture. I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just relating this out of experience and someone who's worked with the series and whose work is vetted by the editors every other week. 'They're the Highest Authority of the CDs' does not mean, 'They're CDs'. A donkey could be the mayor of a town of humans, but it doesn't make the donkey a human.

    Do you understand what I'm trying to express? Sometimes I'm not the best at getting things across but I hope you see what I mean and also that I'm not hardset on them *not* being CDs. Just open to the idea that they might not actually be them and most importantly, despite the Revos wanting to take down the heirarchy, it doesn't mean they're against them as humans.
    The highest ranking of Celestial Dragons means they're Celestial Dragons of the highest rank. The Donkey analogy doesn't make sense in this context...

    The guy giving the exposition was explaining that even though they have the highest authority in the world being the highest ranking Celestial Dragons, they don't sit on the empty throne. Even if they somehow aren't real CD's, that statement was flat out saying they were...
    Last edited by YoungWhite; October 16th, 2019 at 10:19 PM.

  18. #5898

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungWhite View Post
    The highest ranking of Celestial Dragons means they're Celestial Dragons of the highest rank. The Donkey analogy doesn't make sense in this context...
    Exactly.

    And the Sabo example doesn't fit either.

  19. #5899

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungWhite View Post
    The highest ranking of Celestial Dragons means they're Celestial Dragons of the highest rank. The Donkey analogy doesn't make sense in this context...

    The guy giving the exposition was explaining that even though they have the highest authority in the world being the highest ranking Celestial Dragons, they don't sit on the empty throne. Even if they somehow aren't real CD's, that statement was flat out saying they were...
    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    Exactly.

    And the Sabo example doesn't fit either.
    Donald Trump is the president of the United States.

    That does not mean he was actually chosen or popularly elected to that position. or that he earned the right to be there, or that anything he does is actually in the best interest of the United States or that his loyalties aren't actually to Russia. Nor does it make him the most powerful man, the smartest, or the most respected or the best politician. But still he is the president, he has that rank despite not really being presidential by any standard..

    The nuances and distinctions matter.

    A fact can be 100% true but still be wrong or different. Especially in a story, where its the author's job to decieve and surprise and change what you thought you knew.
    Last edited by Robby; October 16th, 2019 at 10:49 PM.
    To support Viz hosting all Jump manga for FREE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
    https://www.viz.com/shonenjump

    Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version, and just discuss those releases in the spoiler thread.

  20. #5900
    Entertained since 2009 KingLJ's Avatar
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    Uhmm.

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Oda is laughing at you guys rn.
    Feelings change - memories don't.


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