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Thread: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

  1. #5661

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    I wonder what kind of Color Spread were gonna get for the 1000th chapter?

  2. #5662

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by FolhaS View Post
    Well, can't argue with your last point. You clearly have those details more present in your mind than me. Guess my head-cannon doesn't hold up that well

    I could keep going, commenting on how it's not the gorosei that place the bounties but a different department so even if the gorosei talk about Luffy in a way they don't talk about the other supernovas, it's not a public or internal affair, but that's not really that important overall. We'll just end up on the point we agreed in the begining, bounties are more hype than anything.
    Tbh, I feel we're missing big numbers to fully analyze this: how many pirates/criminals actually get a specific bounty (a poster with a name a photo), how many of those bounties are above 10 million, above 100 million, etc.

    As for the shichibukai they're not meant to balance the world against the yonko by themselves. It's the shichibukai and the marines, not matter how they talk about it. When WB attacked marineford they called in all of them and it was a fair fight. And they operated mostly in Paradise, not really setting foot in the New World, that's yonko land, that's the untouchable, unconquered territory. The shichibukai are a publicity stunt more than anything.
    As for their bounties, well, real-world explanation I guess Oda was just making some numbers as he went along without considering the scalling.
    But we can always try to justify some of it. We can imagine Crocodile made his 81 million bounty on Paradise, went to the New World, faced Whitebeard and survived so the WG just offered him a job instead of updating his bounty.
    I am not keen to point out negative things but i try not to overlook and make mental gymnastics to justify them either.

    And i would argue whether that department is actually following a different agenda than the Gorosei or are differently woven than them with different policies, or even ideologies, but of course in a huge organization everything is possible.
    Yeah but we can compare those that we do have and that are supposed to make sense within the confines presented by Oda himself.

    It´s the same thing. The Marines did not have enough strong fighters to balance the Yonkou fighters, hence they needed the Shichibukai, which mostly play in the strength area of the commanders, except Mihawk who can match a Yonkou by himself.
    Marinefored was never a fair fight, the Marines´intention, except the Absolute Justice boys, was to only ensure Ace´s execution and minimize their losses, it was never about defeating the WB Pirates or even WB himself, it would certainly be easier if they did, but that was not the aim.
    Hence the formation, or 5 out of the six powerhouses of the World Government barely doing anything, Mihawk is an equal to Shanks, who does not lack compared to the other Yonkou, Garp was an equal to Roger and by extension Whitebeard. Kizaru and Aokiji barely took their hands out of their pockets (and Aokiji can match Akainu equally) and Akainu matched Whitebeard equally, you can even argue he was superior in instances and pretty much dealt the dealing blow, and right after cornered the entire Whitebeard Pirates plus allies by himself.

    The balance is the Yonkou (which means 4 Emperor, meaning them an a theoretical alliance) vs Marines + Shichibukai, and the latter are a significant part of it.

    Which brings us to our initial point, hype and escalation is what bounties really are about, not consistency.
    Crocodile was a big player for years, even in the New World, and then became Shichibukai, and then faced Whitebeard.
    He made waves in the New World, was famous for his strength adn so on, and then became Shichi.
    Compare that to Bartolomeo for example, a rookie, who had a bounty of 150 million in his rookie year, but is still lacking in both threat level and strength compared to Crocodile.
    Or even worse, Caribou, another rookie, who has almost three times the amount of Crocodile had.
    So yeah, making up numbers without paying them too much attention sounds right.

  3. #5663

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by MiyamotoMusashi View Post
    I am not keen to point out negative things but i try not to overlook and make mental gymnastics to justify them either.
    Oh, this has been a fun discussion for me, have no worries about pointing out negatives or flaws in my theories. If I didn't want them poked I wouldn't make them public, right?

    And, your memory is better than mine once again.
    Croc did face WB after being a shichibukai, I though it had been before.
    Well then, to keep the game going, maybe Croc got his bounty not just in one voyage, like Hancock, but in a couple of them but showed a ton of potential. His plan in Arabasta was a very well though slow burner, if he did something along those lines but in a smaller scale I could see the WG take notice and try to grab him soon. Buggy did get a shichibukai invitation for organizing a prison breakout after years of "laying dormant".
    I like this idea more than my former one, it adds a new layer of hubris to the WG. They get a wild animal for protection because it's ferocious but then get surprised when he bites them.

  4. #5664

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    In the official translation Franky said they need to make a boat for 100,000 men

    but they've only got 4,000 men now, who the hell can they recruit to fill up that number? Maybe the Grand Fleet, or some other party that doesn't want two Yonko's together?

  5. #5665

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Or maybe he was just being hyperbolic.

  6. #5666

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    Or maybe he was just being hyperbolic.
    Maybe but then they had a discussion about why to make a ship for that many people if they don't need it, then they said "it would just be a waste of effort", followed by saying "why don't we make a bet on how many will join"

    So I doubt Oda just put all that in there if they weren't gonna increase the amount of allies,

  7. #5667

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiebs View Post
    Maybe but then they had a discussion about why to make a ship for that many people if they don't need it, then they said "it would just be a waste of effort", followed by saying "why don't we make a bet on how many will join"

    So I doubt Oda just put all that in there if they weren't gonna increase the amount of allies,
    The dialogue still works under the assumption of an hyperbole, afterall Franky is overworking people to build more ships than they currently need, even if it's only for more 2000 people instead of 100.000 people.

    I mean, how does 100.000 people even make sense? Unless every single citizen of Wano joins the fight, considering the country even have that much population, there is no other option that comes close to that number. Not to mention that foreign people that may come to Wano to join the war already have their own ships, like Luffy's grand fleet.

    Maybe the entirety of Wano's population will join the fight indeed, but the invasion to Onigashima is already in the next day, when the ships are supposed to be used. I can't think of how things would turn out that way.

  8. #5668

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    The dialogue still works under the assumption of an hyperbole, afterall Franky is overworking people to build more ships than they currently need, even if it's only for more 2000 people instead of 100.000 people.

    I mean, how does 100.000 people even make sense? Unless every single citizen of Wano joins the fight, considering the country even have that much population, there is no other option that comes close to that number. Not to mention that foreign people that may come to Wano to join the war already have their own ships, like Luffy's grand fleet.

    Maybe the entirety of Wano's population will join the fight indeed, but the invasion to Onigashima is already in the next day, when the ships are supposed to be used. I can't think of how things would turn out that way.
    IDK how they could get 100,000

    but they are already extremely outmatched and they don't even have the info on Big Mom joining Kaido's forces, there gonna need more allies

    that and there's got to be a reason Oda specifically put that in there

    your point about the entire population joining might not be the absurd though, If Orochi Really does attack the nine when they go to the specified spot and the whole country sees them, there's a slight possibility they'll arouse the support of those who were hesitant at first, making the whole plan backfiring on Orochi which would be great.... just a theory

  9. #5669

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Hi Greg, do you have a theory of what Hitetsu meant when he said by becoming a black blade, Emma's rank could rise? It's unclear if this means it can become a Supreme grade sword or it means something else?

  10. #5670

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Let's talk traitors:

    There was a traitor, who told the animal kingdom pirates that Raizou the ninja was going to Zou, and gave them the means to get to the island twice. A random captured Mink could have provided their home vivrecard, or their bird zoan or smile user scouted very good and found it luckily the first time, and they left their own vivrecard stapled to a tree or something for the second trip, whatever, finding Zou can be as easily or as complicated as Oda wants it.

    The information about Raizou tho. Can't check the volumes right now as... device issues have turned me into an iphone user and I can't cheat region locks as easily as I could with Android, so, did Jack ask for the samurai, samuraiS, (or he used the japanese way of not saying if something is one or more), or the ninja back then?

    Before going into tangents of Doffy's powerplays, and hidding or sharing that he saw Momo/Kinnemon/Kanjuro, someone had to tell the animal kingdom pirates, in the correct timeframe, that the samurai were at Zou.

    Now, I have to check timeframes and stuff, but if I remember correctly, the travel time from Punk Hazzard to Dressrosa was just one day, then Sanji and CO leave for Zou the same day, the rest of the crew sails away 3 days later, travel time given as 8 days, and the wiki claims that the invasion on Zou by jack lasted for 5 days, and them leaving was triggered by Doffy's defeat and capture.

    Ignoring Jack's starting point, (but it seems like Zou is closer to Wano than Dressrosa) as he could have gotten the orders at whatever point and travel time the plot demand, so he got to Zou before the crew had arrived at Punk Hazzard.

    We have few details about Momo's party arrival to the present, except that it was like "a month ago", and that they did a round on Wano before sailing, and that the beast pirates spoted them while they were at sea and knew that they got separated.

    Reading 920 again, claims that the Animal Kingdom pirates captured catviper and dogstorm, so they could have all the information needed to know that they were going to Zou all the way back then.

    Something that is strange, is with how paranoid and petty Orochi is, he hasn't reacted to the news that these ghost of the past are back, Kaido's men had the name Raizo (and in the torture were asking just for him), aren't the Animal Kingdom pirates and the shogunate comparing notes? And even the freshest spy report, it talks about Hyori, but says nothing about Momo or the other scabards.

    I dunno, I should go and check everything that Kinnemon and Momo have said with the timeline in mind.
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  11. #5671

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    100,000 is being used as a gag, so you really don't need to look any deeper than that. It's a joke!

    But even so its ridiculously easy to see it actually coming into play, and this is a deus ex machina beign fairly set up in advance, but as a gag so you don't notice it. Given the powers at hand and the likely results of this all, its easy to see some kind of event like a Tsunami hitting Wano, (we've already seen BM making one) or a Buster Call, or who knows what else craziness.

    There may be a need to save everyone on the island before the end, *including* the hapless innocent mooks working for the badguys that don't deserve to die.

    Hero forces are 4200, the known badguys are 30,000, and that's not even counting Big Mom's group. So you're already talking 40,000 easy. Add in civilians and non fighters and random reinforcments, I have no problem seeing an eventual need for Franky's over-preparedness.


    Or, even if it doesn't come into play this arc, what does an isolationist nation like Wano do with those isolation policies gone and a fleet of ships? What do the minks from Zou do when their elephant dies? (Maybe from a fight with Kaidou?) What ever happened to the giant ship that was supposed to cart the entire fishman island population when the island was destroyed? What kind of *end series* events could make use of a fleet of 100,000 showing up out of nowhere? (I imagine the payoff will be sooner than the finale to the series 10 years from now because thats REALLY early to set up, but you never know.)
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  12. #5672

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by maxterdexter View Post
    Let's talk traitors:

    There was a traitor, who told the animal kingdom pirates that Raizou the ninja was going to Zou, and gave them the means to get to the island twice. A random captured Mink could have provided their home vivrecard, or their bird zoan or smile user scouted very good and found it luckily the first time, and they left their own vivrecard stapled to a tree or something for the second trip, whatever, finding Zou can be as easily or as complicated as Oda wants it.

    The information about Raizou tho. Can't check the volumes right now as... device issues have turned me into an iphone user and I can't cheat region locks as easily as I could with Android, so, did Jack ask for the samurai, samuraiS, (or he used the japanese way of not saying if something is one or more), or the ninja back then?

    Before going into tangents of Doffy's powerplays, and hidding or sharing that he saw Momo/Kinnemon/Kanjuro, someone had to tell the animal kingdom pirates, in the correct timeframe, that the samurai were at Zou.

    Now, I have to check timeframes and stuff, but if I remember correctly, the travel time from Punk Hazzard to Dressrosa was just one day, then Sanji and CO leave for Zou the same day, the rest of the crew sails away 3 days later, travel time given as 8 days, and the wiki claims that the invasion on Zou by jack lasted for 5 days, and them leaving was triggered by Doffy's defeat and capture.

    Ignoring Jack's starting point, (but it seems like Zou is closer to Wano than Dressrosa) as he could have gotten the orders at whatever point and travel time the plot demand, so he got to Zou before the crew had arrived at Punk Hazzard.

    We have few details about Momo's party arrival to the present, except that it was like "a month ago", and that they did a round on Wano before sailing, and that the beast pirates spoted them while they were at sea and knew that they got separated.

    Reading 920 again, claims that the Animal Kingdom pirates captured catviper and dogstorm, so they could have all the information needed to know that they were going to Zou all the way back then.

    Something that is strange, is with how paranoid and petty Orochi is, he hasn't reacted to the news that these ghost of the past are back, Kaido's men had the name Raizo (and in the torture were asking just for him), aren't the Animal Kingdom pirates and the shogunate comparing notes? And even the freshest spy report, it talks about Hyori, but says nothing about Momo or the other scabards.

    I dunno, I should go and check everything that Kinnemon and Momo have said with the timeline in mind.
    There was a video posted yesterday that made a pretty damn convincing case that it's Kanjuro. I've decided not to worry too much about the little details and just keep him in mind moving forward.

  13. #5673

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Kanjuro doesn't make much sense though. He had so many opportunities to hand over Momo to Orochi and nip the rebellion in bud.
    But having a traitor all along even during Oden's time can be a good plotline. I think Oden parried with Kaidou and was not defeated, but was forced to surrender to save his family and his vassals. A traitor among his most trusted group could bring the situation to that point...
    “When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.”


  14. #5674

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by auem View Post
    Kanjuro doesn't make much sense though. He had so many opportunities to hand over Momo to Orochi and nip the rebellion in bud.
    But having a traitor all along even during Oden's time can be a good plotline. I think Oden parried with Kaidou and was not defeated, but was forced to surrender to save his family and his vassals. A traitor among his most trusted group could bring the situation to that point...
    Yea there are some stuff, such as what you pointed out, that the video did not necessarily clear all doubt on. But I've accepted that that applies to everyone at this point, that the answer is going to be a complicated affair no matter who it is. Regardless, the video's arguments against Kanjuro were definitely more convincing than what I normally hear, to the point where I can at least agree that he is definitely the most suspicious out of everyone.

  15. #5675

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Kanjuro makes certain deal of sense, in that he's the third member of the faction that we meet, have traveled with him for a long time, and his powers would let him do shady inconspicuous things, like he has a finer brush and is secretly lefthanded, and send spy spiders back every once in a while.

    But I doubt any of the bliped/time displaced ones are. It would just be too convenient to say "let me protect momo here, go ahead and bring the minks!" and just end it, and deal with the minks once they came to wano.

    Again, that Orochi has no information or reaction on Momo is very strange, the aliance is parading him as the symbol of the rebelion, but Hyori is just a footnote right now.

    People look at Shinobu and see the traitor, but the thing is that is exactly the kind of frustration that someone living under a dictator for over 20 yeras feels, the paranoia, the frustration, the clinging to any shred of hope just to cast it down when it starts to stall or fail, the hard headed unwillingnes to compromise. There is the dark reality of youth like Tama or that one dude in the flashback, who all they know is Orochi/Kaido, or the prissioner's broken down spirits, or the laughing townsfolk who can't even emote properly about their situation, but Shinobu's is the frustration of someone who had a purpose before, and has been on survival mode for all this year, better than the general population, but still barely making ends meet.

    Let me get tinfoily for a moment. How about someone who has the foresight to distract Orochi with Hyori to let the aliance have a better shot? Someone who would know exactly what this message would do, and knew that if Momo is found, he's dead, but if Hyori is found, she'll be taken hostage.

    The leter came from Kyoshiro, but doing the will of Lady Toki, who throught the spoiler fruit, is cheating. Granted, then there will be the need of two traitors, because sending Jack to Zou was just a tragedy and a senseles rampage of violence, but this particular leak still could prove beneficial.
    Last edited by maxterdexter; September 16th, 2019 at 01:30 PM.
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  16. #5676

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Do you guys think all the level six prisoners will be part of the newly formed Rox Pirates or will they be there own threat and get there own arc?

    I'm talking about the ones that didn't join Black Beard of course

  17. #5677
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiebs View Post
    Do you guys think all the level six prisoners will be part of the newly formed Rox Pirates or will they be there own threat and get there own arc?

    I'm talking about the ones that didn't join Black Beard of course
    Perhaps one of them can serve as a villain for a small, cool-down arc after Wano before shit starts getting crazy again. You know, have Jinbei get acclimated to the crew, show off how Luffy's grown, stuff like that.

  18. #5678

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiebs View Post
    Do you guys think all the level six prisoners will be part of the newly formed Rox Pirates or will they be there own threat and get there own arc?

    I'm talking about the ones that didn't join Black Beard of course
    I don't think the level 6 prisioners will have any relevance in the manga. They are not going to appear outside of fan speculation.

    That's my theory at least. I've been wrong many times before.

  19. #5679

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny B. Decent View Post
    Perhaps one of them can serve as a villain for a small, cool-down arc after Wano before shit starts getting crazy again. You know, have Jinbei get acclimated to the crew, show off how Luffy's grown, stuff like that.
    Yeah I doubt there gonna get a huge arc (unless there the remains of the Rox pirates) but at the very least level a host of six prisoners should serve as a small challenge that gets there own arc,

    Quote Originally Posted by Chams View Post
    I don't think the level 6 prisioners will have any relevance in the manga. They are not going to appear outside of fan speculation.

    That's my theory at least. I've been wrong many times before.
    I disagree, I understand where your coming from of course, after beating Two Yonko's aligned in this arc it's gonna be hard to really make anyone a challenge who isn't a Yonko, admiral or some new ultra threat like Rox and Im

    but I feel Oda wouldn't have had it as the climax of a chapter in one of the biggest arcs in One Piece and one of the reasons Sengoku quit as Fleet Admiral if it wasn't gonna show them

    also he mentioned them again in Dressrosa and even said they were staying somewhere..... why bring them up again if your not gonna show them

    Last edited by Shiebs; September 17th, 2019 at 03:17 PM.

  20. #5680

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Chams View Post
    I don't think the level 6 prisioners will have any relevance in the manga. They are not going to appear outside of fan speculation.

    That's my theory at least. I've been wrong many times before.
    Nah I totally agree with you. Outside of Blackbeard's crew and them being used for the movies, don't expect anything from them.

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