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Thread: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

  1. #5641
    Queen's got the Funk Roronoa Zacho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by uniaka ikuzakas View Post
    If warlords system was taken down at reverie, I could see Buggy get a big bounty, for having army of level 5 guys.
    Anyone wonders what Vegapunk's new weapon could be?
    Maybe he just cloned the original Shichibukai. I hope it is not those new PXs from Movie Z (iirc).
    I'm open to anything as Long as Vegapunk is shown.
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  2. #5642
    21st Century Schizoid Man Johnny B. Decent's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Roronoa Zacho View Post
    Anyone wonders what Vegapunk's new weapon could be?
    Maybe he just cloned the original Shichibukai. I hope it is not those new PXs from Movie Z (iirc).
    I'm open to anything as Long as Vegapunk is shown.
    I'm guessing it's some sort of Super Pacifista or he's mastered Giantification.

  3. #5643
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny B. Decent View Post
    I'm guessing it's some sort of Super Pacifista or he's mastered Giantification.
    Maybe it's a beam to make baddies harmless. Think of it as a mix of Perona's negative hollows and the smile side effects and it is shot like a slow beam, just faster.
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  4. #5644

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Roronoa Zacho View Post
    Anyone wonders what Vegapunk's new weapon could be?
    Maybe he just cloned the original Shichibukai. I hope it is not those new PXs from Movie Z (iirc).
    I'm open to anything as Long as Vegapunk is shown.
    He did manage to clone kizaru's attack and kuma's body, maybe now he managed to clone all the warlords attacks along with their bodies. Imagine pacifista mihawk that fights mihawk and learns all his moves in battle. Or maybe they cloned the admirals and made pacifista admirals.


    All I'm sure is that Luffy will defeat this new weapon once we get to vegapunk's arc.

  5. #5645
    Ou l‘optimisme Candide's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Roronoa Zacho View Post
    Anyone wonders what Vegapunk's new weapon could be?
    Maybe he just cloned the original Shichibukai. I hope it is not those new PXs from Movie Z (iirc).
    I'm open to anything as Long as Vegapunk is shown.
    16 chars of flying vessels.

  6. #5646
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Candide View Post
    16 chars of flying vessels.
    Sounds nice as well.
    And the Variety of ideas Shows it could be anything.
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  7. #5647

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    @Greg: just read your column, what do you mean by Zoro channeling Ryuma’s soul? Do you mean that Zoro will talk to him? Or do you mean that it will the new Ashura form?

  8. #5648

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by MiyamotoMusashi View Post
    Nah, they both got the same amount of credit because they saw them as equal partners in the breakout.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---



    In that sense, Luffy´s bounty in retrospect makes sense, no doubt, but the others in his generation in turn do not though, like Kid for example, who received his bounty by hurting civilians, unless we are supposed to doubt that and he did something else entirely, but no such indication was given.
    Unless Kid was significantly stronger than Luffy pre-TS, which also did not get much hints towards, his bounty does not make sense, adn by extension the others neither.
    Luffy not hurting civilians is the big difference, imo. Plus, a couple of his exploits went under the radar.

    Luffy liberated countries and villages, like Cocoyashi and Arabasta, in-out, quality of life improves. From what we've seen of Kidd, like what he did to the Brownbeard Pirates, he razed places to the ground, quality of life for the people goes down. He actually raided places, unlike the mugiwara who just search for adventures.
    Luffy declared war to the WG directly, but technically every pirate is doing that by raising a jolly roger, and he attacked Ennies Lobby only to retrieve his crewmate, otherwise he would've stayed away. The mugiwara tend to avoid the marines as much as possible. Other pirates may indeed go after marine vessels or bases just to destroy them.
    Luffy sent Wapol, a king with a seat at the WG flying and overthrew his reign, but I don't see Dalton complaining to the Marines about that. That could easily add 15 millions to a bounty.

    As we've been discussing, the bounties are just a hype tool with somewhat poorly defined rules but there's usually enough to find justifications.

  9. #5649

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by FolhaS View Post
    Luffy not hurting civilians is the big difference, imo. Plus, a couple of his exploits went under the radar.

    Luffy liberated countries and villages, like Cocoyashi and Arabasta, in-out, quality of life improves. From what we've seen of Kidd, like what he did to the Brownbeard Pirates, he razed places to the ground, quality of life for the people goes down. He actually raided places, unlike the mugiwara who just search for adventures.
    Luffy declared war to the WG directly, but technically every pirate is doing that by raising a jolly roger, and he attacked Ennies Lobby only to retrieve his crewmate, otherwise he would've stayed away. The mugiwara tend to avoid the marines as much as possible. Other pirates may indeed go after marine vessels or bases just to destroy them.
    Luffy sent Wapol, a king with a seat at the WG flying and overthrew his reign, but I don't see Dalton complaining to the Marines about that. That could easily add 15 millions to a bounty.

    As we've been discussing, the bounties are just a hype tool with somewhat poorly defined rules but there's usually enough to find justifications.
    If you are talking about compared to actually hurting the WG directly, there is no comparison, because pirates usually do not do that.
    And in that sense, punching a Celestial Dragon is a huge offense against the WG, more dire than any civilian hurting.

    The Marines do not see it as liberating, so that´s no argument, at least those that are essentially against pirates.
    That was Hawkins, not Kidd.
    No, the manga makes a clear distinction between pirates, and pirates that go against the WG directly. just to give two examples 1 and 2.
    Pirates are simply doing what they want, and in that they might clash with the Marines, but that does not change that actually going against them is a different ballpark altogether.

    It´s not that it´s entirely poorly defined, Oda goes out of his way to explain two additional factors besides strength that have an influence on your bounty, it´s simply that most of the time Oda does not stick to them, and like you said, simply uses them as hype and strength defining tools.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Roronoa Zacho View Post
    Anyone wonders what Vegapunk's new weapon could be?
    Maybe he just cloned the original Shichibukai. I hope it is not those new PXs from Movie Z (iirc).
    I'm open to anything as Long as Vegapunk is shown.
    Airships with bombs that might devastate an entire island.
    I do not even remember what was so different about those PXs except their design.

  10. #5650

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by MiyamotoMusashi View Post
    If you are talking about compared to actually hurting the WG directly, there is no comparison, because pirates usually do not do that.
    And in that sense, punching a Celestial Dragon is a huge offense against the WG, more dire than any civilian hurting.

    The Marines do not see it as liberating, so that´s no argument, at least those that are essentially against pirates.
    That was Hawkins, not Kidd.
    No, the manga makes a clear distinction between pirates, and pirates that go against the WG directly. just to give two examples 1 and 2.
    Pirates are simply doing what they want, and in that they might clash with the Marines, but that does not change that actually going against them is a different ballpark altogether.

    It´s not that it´s entirely poorly defined, Oda goes out of his way to explain two additional factors besides strength that have an influence on your bounty, it´s simply that most of the time Oda does not stick to them, and like you said, simply uses them as hype and strength defining tools.
    Oh, I misremembered who Kidd had crucifed. I thought it was Brownbeard but it was just some other crew.
    But I meant the scene where Kidd crucifes people because he's mental and likes to destroy things in a somewhat flashy way.

    And the Marines did see some of Luffy's actions as liberations.
    They were pissed that it was a pirate who took down Crocodile instead of a marine, because they realized that Crocodile was going to take over a whole country, but they didn't really care about him beating someone like Bellamy or Don Krieg. And they recognized the poor situation Cocoyashi was in because they (Nezumi) let Arlong do whatever he wanted for so long.


    Anyway, I'd like to know a couple of cool stories that allowed Kidd to have a higher bounty in Sabaody, but I can live with my mental cannon.

  11. #5651

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    I'm amazing that punching a celestial dragon, and Usopp butt slamming one, didn't jump both their bounties considerably.

    Maybe if the war/timeskip hadn't been around the corner, it would have.
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  12. #5652

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Well, they tended to include various events when discussing earlier bounties, i.e. Luffy got his first bounty for defeating Buggy, Alvida, Arlong and Krieg.
    Zoro got his first bounty for the defeating Mr.1 and 100 bounty hunters in Whiskey Peak.

    Luffy punching a Celestial Dragon probably got bundled with his actions in the ID breakout and the war.
    And maybe they though Kuma destroyed the crew instead of just sending them on vacations and didn't bother. From someone's unfamiliar with Kuma's powers point-of-view, he just made an entire crew vanish, that spelled out defeat/death.

  13. #5653

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by FolhaS View Post
    Oh, I misremembered who Kidd had crucifed. I thought it was Brownbeard but it was just some other crew.
    But I meant the scene where Kidd crucifes people because he's mental and likes to destroy things in a somewhat flashy way.

    And the Marines did see some of Luffy's actions as liberations.
    They were pissed that it was a pirate who took down Crocodile instead of a marine, because they realized that Crocodile was going to take over a whole country, but they didn't really care about him beating someone like Bellamy or Don Krieg. And they recognized the poor situation Cocoyashi was in because they (Nezumi) let Arlong do whatever he wanted for so long.


    Anyway, I'd like to know a couple of cool stories that allowed Kidd to have a higher bounty in Sabaody, but I can live with my mental cannon.
    Yep, another crew of no name pirates.
    Ah ok.

    Nah, someone like Aokiji can recognize it as such because he does not view the world in black and white and recognizes Luffy´s and his crew´s value, but the Marines do not see it as such, hence no influence on the bounty.
    The Gorosei did not care about Luffy beating Crocodile because he was about to take over a country, but because he took out a significant part of the balance that has been keeping the status quo which in turn is the status quo of WG ruling over the world except a tiny portion.
    Of course they did not like Croc´s plan to take over Alabasta (i actually doubt they recognized that he was aiming for Pluton) but they would have accepted it, just like they accepted Doflamingo, or Hancock´s crimes, Moria killing innocent people, or Weevil burning entire cities down.
    Heck one of Dressrosa´s main points and Fujitora´s goal is to actually end that strategy of looking away in order to secure their position and strength, which the WG has been doing since the balance came to life.
    And nothing about Cocoyashi you describe was actually shown, Nezumi only requested Luffy gets a boutny, after which i guess they invested and found out he took out Buggy and Krieg as well and gave him a very high first bounty for East Blue, him saving Cocoyashi, or Baratie, or the island Buggy was terrorizing, did not have any mitigating effects.

    Sure, that´s one of the main issues i have with the Supernova in general (guess can be explained by Oda coming up with them on the spot). They lack credibility in being Luffy´s rivals.

  14. #5654

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    From that scene you posted, the gorosei seem more worried about Croc's "rebelion" than anything, that's what they comment on first. The one who threw a wrench to the shichibukai system was Croc himself, as they probably wouldn't stand to let someone take over one of the founding countries. They would've sent an admiral or something.
    He's a different case than DoFlamingo since Doffy was blackmailing the WG.
    Then they make notice that Luffy, being the one to take him down, is also a someone to keep an eye on. I imagine that if Luffy hadn't crossed path with shichibukai and the WG so many times he would have gotten an invitation to be a shichibukai himself, like Ace.

    As for the first bounty scene, I admit I did not went back to check, so Imma take your word for it. Guess I kinda filled those blanks myself.
    But my point was that Luffy's bounty could've been higher if he was more "piraty". If he had beaten all those East Blue villains and then also raided the villages/towns he would seem more dangerous.
    You could look at it from the opposite perspective, it's not weird that the other supernovas have bounties as high as Luffy without facing shichibukai and such, it's weird that Luffy has such a high bounty without raiding every island he passes by. Look at how much shit and destruction we see in Doffy's/Law's flashback and he got a 340 million bounty.


    Also, thinking about the other crimes commited by shichibukai.
    Doflamingo took over a country but he was blackmailing the WG for the rank of shichibukai et al.
    When did Moria kill innocent people after turning warlord? Most of his zombies were pirates passing by the Florian Triangle. And he raided Wano, but Wano is not part of the WG.
    Hancock and the Kuja go on raids but I believe it was implied that after her first voyage, when she got a bounty and an invitation to the 7bukai, they raid other pirates and possibly non affiliated WG countries.
    For Weevil, I'm guessing they're very forgiving since he still is hunting pirates, and Whitebeard affiliated pirates for that matter. Unlike Croc who was taking over a country in order to take over a country.

  15. #5655

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by FolhaS View Post
    From that scene you posted, the gorosei seem more worried about Croc's "rebelion" than anything, that's what they comment on first. The one who threw a wrench to the shichibukai system was Croc himself, as they probably wouldn't stand to let someone take over one of the founding countries. They would've sent an admiral or something.
    He's a different case than DoFlamingo since Doffy was blackmailing the WG.
    Then they make notice that Luffy, being the one to take him down, is also a someone to keep an eye on. I imagine that if Luffy hadn't crossed path with shichibukai and the WG so many times he would have gotten an invitation to be a shichibukai himself, like Ace.

    As for the first bounty scene, I admit I did not went back to check, so Imma take your word for it. Guess I kinda filled those blanks myself.
    But my point was that Luffy's bounty could've been higher if he was more "piraty". If he had beaten all those East Blue villains and then also raided the villages/towns he would seem more dangerous.
    You could look at it from the opposite perspective, it's not weird that the other supernovas have bounties as high as Luffy without facing shichibukai and such, it's weird that Luffy has such a high bounty without raiding every island he passes by. Look at how much shit and destruction we see in Doffy's/Law's flashback and he got a 340 million bounty.


    Also, thinking about the other crimes commited by shichibukai.
    Doflamingo took over a country but he was blackmailing the WG for the rank of shichibukai et al.
    When did Moria kill innocent people after turning warlord? Most of his zombies were pirates passing by the Florian Triangle. And he raided Wano, but Wano is not part of the WG.
    Hancock and the Kuja go on raids but I believe it was implied that after her first voyage, when she got a bounty and an invitation to the 7bukai, they raid other pirates and possibly non affiliated WG countries.
    For Weevil, I'm guessing they're very forgiving since he still is hunting pirates, and Whitebeard affiliated pirates for that matter. Unlike Croc who was taking over a country in order to take over a country.
    They arent´, they are angry at Croc for doing it but it´s not the decisive factor, like i said, simply because they have been tolerating similar or even worse stuff for the Shichibukai. And nobody cares about "founding countries", as soon as you leave Mariejoa or never join them in the first place, you become one of the lowly people.
    Doffy was blackmailing the WG for the assassins they sent after him since he knows the treasure, never did so for Dressrosa, Fujitora points that out.
    The WG accepts horrendous crimes if you have strength that can be useful for the World Government.
    The WG would have even forgiven both Law and Luffy if the latter was simply a subordinate of Law, and look at all the shit Luffy has done.

    Nah, you are equating things that should not be, you are creating your own headcanon that has not much to do with the manga.
    If you put things on a scale, what stands out more as a threat for the World Government is clear, directly targeting them, sullying the three major institutions of the WG, beating two Shichibukai, beating Rob Lucci, a legendary agent, and so forth, or beating citizens.
    Buggy can do and did that, and as do many others in the Great Pirate Era.
    So yeah, unless Kid and the others are significantly stronger, or they actually did things Oda simply could not or did not mention, their bounties do not make much sense but from the way the Gorosei or Sengoku talk about Luffy, at least we can deduce that they at least did not do anything to WG or affiliated organizations, Luffy is always in the middle of things hurting them.

    The bounties of Shichibukai do not make much sense either for the most part, simply because they are supposed to be the counterweight to the Yonkou commanders and either do or did match their strength in the past. Crocodile had 80 million that Sanji nearly matched with his first, Hancock´s makes sense since it was her first and she immediately joined, Kuma, DD, and so on do not make much sense.
    Have you missed Oda showing the people Moria either killed or stole shadows from? It was a variety of people from normal citizens to pirates and so on.
    Even the zombies were from different were from different sources, and among the shadows Oda mentioned a skilled Marine swordsman as well that Luffy got to use as Nightmare Luffy.
    They literally came from raiding a merchant ship when we see the Kuja for the first time, and one of them mentions how everyone is scared of Kuja Pirates, for them men are all the same and they treat them as such.
    And burning countless cities down in the process, which is literally the crime that is supposed to inflate bounties, your arguments lack consistency.

  16. #5656
    Queen's got the Funk Roronoa Zacho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    I'm amazing that punching a celestial dragon, and Usopp butt slamming one, didn't jump both their bounties considerably.

    Maybe if the war/timeskip hadn't been around the corner, it would have.
    Yeah, Usoppe's butt on Rosward! This slips the mind so easily, yet it is way more humiliating than a Punch.
    But he deserved the moniker "God" way back then. Teabagging a CD should make one a god.
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  17. #5657
    POE WUN BGR Greg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    @Greg: just read your column, what do you mean by Zoro channeling Ryuma’s soul? Do you mean that Zoro will talk to him? Or do you mean that it will the new Ashura form?
    Could be either, or one in the same.

    Or neither ^o^

    I just thought it sounded like a wacky idea and bringing him in would manage to tie a nice bow on the Brook/Ryuma/Zoro connection back at TB. Would give all three of them a bit of peace.

    I'm most interested in discussing a certain Supernova which I went a little bit too in-depth in, in my next article. Hoping it doesn't get cut entirely.

  18. #5658
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Could be either, or one in the same.

    Or neither ^o^

    I just thought it sounded like a wacky idea and bringing him in would manage to tie a nice bow on the Brook/Ryuma/Zoro connection back at TB. Would give all three of them a bit of peace.

    I'm most interested in discussing a certain Supernova which I went a little bit too in-depth in, in my next article. Hoping it doesn't get cut entirely.
    What do you think on Kaido getting such a little exposition in his own arc until now ?


  19. #5659

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Could be either, or one in the same.

    Or neither ^o^

    I just thought it sounded like a wacky idea and bringing him in would manage to tie a nice bow on the Brook/Ryuma/Zoro connection back at TB. Would give all three of them a bit of peace.

    I'm most interested in discussing a certain Supernova which I went a little bit too in-depth in, in my next article. Hoping it doesn't get cut entirely.
    Ok Thanks for the answer
    I was wondering if Brook’s awaken fruit could allow him to does like to the soul of the dead.
    Wait and see I guess.

  20. #5660

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by MiyamotoMusashi View Post
    They arent´, they are angry at Croc for doing it but it´s not the decisive factor, like i said, simply because they have been tolerating similar or even worse stuff for the Shichibukai. And nobody cares about "founding countries", as soon as you leave Mariejoa or never join them in the first place, you become one of the lowly people.
    Doffy was blackmailing the WG for the assassins they sent after him since he knows the treasure, never did so for Dressrosa, Fujitora points that out.
    The WG accepts horrendous crimes if you have strength that can be useful for the World Government.
    The WG would have even forgiven both Law and Luffy if the latter was simply a subordinate of Law, and look at all the shit Luffy has done.

    Nah, you are equating things that should not be, you are creating your own headcanon that has not much to do with the manga.
    If you put things on a scale, what stands out more as a threat for the World Government is clear, directly targeting them, sullying the three major institutions of the WG, beating two Shichibukai, beating Rob Lucci, a legendary agent, and so forth, or beating citizens.
    Buggy can do and did that, and as do many others in the Great Pirate Era.
    So yeah, unless Kid and the others are significantly stronger, or they actually did things Oda simply could not or did not mention, their bounties do not make much sense but from the way the Gorosei or Sengoku talk about Luffy, at least we can deduce that they at least did not do anything to WG or affiliated organizations, Luffy is always in the middle of things hurting them.

    The bounties of Shichibukai do not make much sense either for the most part, simply because they are supposed to be the counterweight to the Yonkou commanders and either do or did match their strength in the past. Crocodile had 80 million that Sanji nearly matched with his first, Hancock´s makes sense since it was her first and she immediately joined, Kuma, DD, and so on do not make much sense.
    Have you missed Oda showing the people Moria either killed or stole shadows from? It was a variety of people from normal citizens to pirates and so on.
    Even the zombies were from different were from different sources, and among the shadows Oda mentioned a skilled Marine swordsman as well that Luffy got to use as Nightmare Luffy.
    They literally came from raiding a merchant ship when we see the Kuja for the first time, and one of them mentions how everyone is scared of Kuja Pirates, for them men are all the same and they treat them as such.
    And burning countless cities down in the process, which is literally the crime that is supposed to inflate bounties, your arguments lack consistency.
    Well, can't argue with your last point. You clearly have those details more present in your mind than me. Guess my head-cannon doesn't hold up that well

    I could keep going, commenting on how it's not the gorosei that place the bounties but a different department so even if the gorosei talk about Luffy in a way they don't talk about the other supernovas, it's not a public or internal affair, but that's not really that important overall. We'll just end up on the point we agreed in the begining, bounties are more hype than anything.
    Tbh, I feel we're missing big numbers to fully analyze this: how many pirates/criminals actually get a specific bounty (a poster with a name a photo), how many of those bounties are above 10 million, above 100 million, etc.

    As for the shichibukai they're not meant to balance the world against the yonko by themselves. It's the shichibukai and the marines, not matter how they talk about it. When WB attacked marineford they called in all of them and it was a fair fight. And they operated mostly in Paradise, not really setting foot in the New World, that's yonko land, that's the untouchable, unconquered territory. The shichibukai are a publicity stunt more than anything.
    As for their bounties, well, real-world explanation I guess Oda was just making some numbers as he went along without considering the scalling.
    But we can always try to justify some of it. We can imagine Crocodile made his 81 million bounty on Paradise, went to the New World, faced Whitebeard and survived so the WG just offered him a job instead of updating his bounty.

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