+ Reply to Thread
Page 276 of 279 FirstFirst ... 176 226 266 274 275 276 277 278 ... LastLast
Results 5,501 to 5,520 of 5563

Thread: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

  1. #5501
    The Moustache Bandit Nolus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    In the moustachy shadows~

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    I can easily see certain kinds of texts being machine translated. Text of judicial or medical or some-such nature. When you have a legal document, there isn't really space for double meanings and creativity. It has to be as precise as possible with rigid structures that leave nothing dubious or questionable. Bam, feed it to our machine overlords!

    The Google Glass thing brings to mind phones and tablets with those stylos which were essentially the precursors of touch-screens I think. It seemed gimmicky and of little use outside a few specific circumstances but look at us now, swiping and poking at our phones all day.


  2. #5502

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Wonder if they'll ever get around to making that flying car they raved about in the 50's.

  3. #5503
    The Moustache Bandit Nolus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    In the moustachy shadows~

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    They'd better be self-driving though, I don't need some idiot without (or with) a license running me over in my eighth-floor apartment.


  4. #5504
    Your long-lost brother Jabra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    (ಥ ͜ʖ ಥ)

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Nolus View Post

    The Google Glass thing brings to mind phones and tablets with those stylos which were essentially the precursors of touch-screens I think. It seemed gimmicky and of little use outside a few specific circumstances but look at us now, swiping and poking at our phones all day.
    Our society would have to change fundamentally for Google Glass to succeed, because we would have to accept that everything we do can and will be recorded by someone - without us having any indication of it happening (so implants or contacts make it even worse). In Europe we already have controversial debates about monitoring certain public places, where the footage can't even be accessed without judical approval. Now imagine everyone turning into a walking camera, 24/7.
    This isn't just about ease of use in my opinion, and I guess the same goes for translation devices. There is simply more to it than just convenience, which makes me doubt that I will witness it in my lifetime.

    At least in person, because I'm sure some variation of Google Glass will resurface in China first. Having a camera installed on every citizen really sounds like the wettest of dreams for a totalitarian regime.

    But either way, Oda already has his hand-held translation device for overseas travel if not holding converstions on the human soul (^o^)
    If I would be in his position I would go all the way and just buy a personal butler. Or several, if necessary.


  5. #5505

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    The linguist and translator apartheid will be brutal. You filthy screenlooker the superior ruling class will yell at those who never learned a language.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Nolus View Post
    They'd better be self-driving though, I don't need some idiot without (or with) a license running me over in my eighth-floor apartment.
    What about personalized jetpacks then?

    Should hurt less when they skydrive over you

  6. #5506

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Guys, just want to ask regarding "controvercial" official spelling in One Piece for example like;

    Raftel vs Laugh Tale
    Shiryu vs Shilliew
    Maryjois/Maryjoa(?) vs Mary Geois

    Are they really big of a deal in japanese or english? I am not an english speaker and my english is quite bad, at least from what i can understand from Greg comment on previous pages, it didnt really matter that much to the japanese because those word sound the same to them.
    And I feel the same in my case. Those word sound the same in my native tongue.
    Raftel vs Laugh Tale reminded me of my conversation with my high school clasmate in year 2000 when that volume came out in my country when crocus talk about it for the 1st time.
    IMy classmate bought that volume and showing off to me and others because he can get it earlier than any of us.
    I still remember he said that in that volume, the name of the final island was revealed and it called Raftel. We were all feel weird and thought that he was joking because why would the last destination in fighting action manga will be called "Love Tale". We were like this is not romance story.

  7. #5507
    The Moustache Bandit Nolus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    In the moustachy shadows~

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    What about personalized jetpacks then?

    Should hurt less when they skydrive over you
    Let's see... Yes, a 70kg-something guy knocking you over is by no means a 1-ton metal box with wheels crashing into your kitchen.

    Now I'm imagining a drunk fella flying about with a jetpack. O Lord...


  8. #5508

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabra View Post
    Our society would have to change fundamentally for Google Glass to succeed, because we would have to accept that everything we do can and will be recorded by someone - without us having any indication of it happening (so implants or contacts make it even worse). In Europe we already have controversial debates about monitoring certain public places, where the footage can't even be accessed without judical approval. Now imagine everyone turning into a walking camera, 24/7.
    This isn't just about ease of use in my opinion, and I guess the same goes for translation devices. There is simply more to it than just convenience, which makes me doubt that I will witness it in my lifetime.

    At least in person, because I'm sure some variation of Google Glass will resurface in China first. Having a camera installed on every citizen really sounds like the wettest of dreams for a totalitarian regime.



    If I would be in his position I would go all the way and just buy a personal butler. Or several, if necessary.
    Certainly helps with your social score...

  9. #5509

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Isn't human communication basically a huge cluster fuck of edge case scenarios.
    No, otherwise predictive text would not be possible.

    Deeper as opposed to something used as a utility. I can get by on my very basic French, ask for directions, order a meal yadda yadda. But i can acheive something much more meaningful in English, the depth of conversation i can have in English is close to what i can do in my native tongue. I could live a full life in an English speaking nation and not feel constrained by the language in a social or work setting, i could comfortably grasp and apply the nuances of the language when i speak to the native speakers. I mean take a little thing like making a word pun, i can make shitty word play all day long. For the lack of a better word these are things i would count as depth
    That might be possible using brain wave manipulation.

    It all depends if you see these technologies as an enhancement or as a replacement. Thinking of the former and using Go as an example. If Go players find themselves giving up because there is an AI that can beat even the top masters in the World, then they were already limited to begin with. The Go AI is simply a collection of all our current data on the game, it should mark the beginning of one's mastery of the game. The same idea with language. Oda's idea of the translator as a replacement is really extreme. And you may feel able to live in an English society now, but at one point you were not. So maybe during your first week you cannot have incredibly deep conversations, but I am sure by the second you would start calling people fudge pockets all the same.

    Learning the language properly by studying it is one option. There are plenty of people that learn the language just by going to a place and being exposed constantly with it and having to learn it to survive and end up integrating into the society just fine. Using an AI translator for a week or two would not impede you from having meaningful conversation down the line.
    Hidden:
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamiel View Post
    Try out my first game! All feedback is welcome, enjoy and thanks. Heroine: Kiku
    Hidden:

  10. #5510

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by K. Kira XXIII View Post
    The Go AI is simply a collection of all our current data on the game, it should mark the beginning of one's mastery of the game.
    That's not true.

    There are engines that play with an extensive database of human games, but the best AI of this age didn't have any database input. They learned playing millions of games against itself.

  11. #5511

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    That's not true.

    There are engines that play with an extensive database of human games, but the best AI of this age didn't have any database input. They learned playing millions of games against itself.
    Yes, AI can be supervised or not. My point was that either way its input forms are limited by our current algorithmic technique or under a supervised AI the game data fed to it.
    Hidden:
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamiel View Post
    Try out my first game! All feedback is welcome, enjoy and thanks. Heroine: Kiku
    Hidden:

  12. #5512

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by K. Kira XXIII View Post
    Yes, AI can be supervised or not. My point was that either way its input forms are limited by our current algorithmic technique or under a supervised AI the game data fed to it.
    You're misunderstanding the difference of ability between an AI and a human nowadays, and what exactly is this difference.

    Obviously, current AIs are created by algorithms written by us humans, but these algorithms are not a set of recommendations/instructions on how to play Go or Chess based on our knowledge of these games. Instead, the focus is the development of a "general reinforcement learning algorithm". Quoting the paper that introduced AlphaZero to the world: "AlphaZero replaces the handcrafted knowledge and domain-specific augmentations used in traditional game-playing programs with deep neural networks, a general-purpose reinforcementlearning algorithm, and a general-purpose tree search algorithm." In other words, it's kinda like the AI from the film Her.

    Therefore it's wrong your saying that "[AI] is simply a collection of all our current data on the game, it should mark the beginning of one's mastery of the game".

    The fact is that AlphaZero completely defied many of the modern chess principles that were guiding professional players and it is changing the way that we humans play the game. Today we learn from AI more than we learn from the best players in the world.

    And not a single soul in the professional world would say that they could beat a high-level AI because of the disparity of ability is gigantic right now. We are happy enough with human tournaments to see who is the strongest human.

  13. #5513

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    You're misunderstanding the difference of ability between an AI and a human nowadays, and what exactly is this difference.
    I do not think I am.

    Obviously, current AIs are created by algorithms written by us humans, but these algorithms are not a set of recommendations/instructions on how to play Go or Chess based on our knowledge of these games. Instead, the focus is the development of a "general reinforcement learning algorithm". Quoting the paper that introduced AlphaZero to the world: "AlphaZero replaces the handcrafted knowledge and domain-specific augmentations used in traditional game-playing programs with deep neural networks, a general-purpose reinforcementlearning algorithm, and a general-purpose tree search algorithm." In other words, it's kinda like the AI from the film Her.
    I am not saying they are. I am talking about those different algorithms. I know that they are not rule set of the game.

    Therefore it's wrong your saying that "[AI] is simply a collection of all our current data on the game, it should mark the beginning of one's mastery of the game".


    I think you are getting too hung up on my simplistic way of expressing myself. I am loosely using the expression: current data on the game. I am including the different algorithm you have mentioned in that data. As they are another form of input to solve the game regardless if it is not recommendations/instructions on how to play the game.

    The fact is that AlphaZero completely defied many of the modern chess principles that were guiding professional players and it is changing the way that we humans play the game. Today we learn from AI more than we learn from the best players in the world.
    Exactly, hence: "it should mark the beginning of one's mastery of the game".

    And not a single soul in the professional world would say that they could beat a high-level AI because of the disparity of ability is gigantic right now. We are happy enough with human tournaments to see who is the strongest human.


    Did I say they would?
    Hidden:
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamiel View Post
    Try out my first game! All feedback is welcome, enjoy and thanks. Heroine: Kiku
    Hidden:

  14. #5514

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    I'm sorry for my misunderstandment, but this was really confusing to me because of some unintentional ambiguity in both these phrases here: "If Go players find themselves giving up because there is an AI that can beat even the top masters in the World, then they were already limited to begin with. The Go AI is simply a collection of all our current data on the game, it should mark the beginning of one's mastery of the game."

    Anyway, all this debate was off topic, so I apologize to the other people too.

  15. #5515

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by K. Kira XXIII View Post
    Thinking of the former and using Go as an example. If Go players find themselves giving up because there is an AI that can beat even the top masters in the World, then they were already limited to begin with. The Go AI is simply a collection of all our current data on the game, it should mark the beginning of one's mastery of the game.
    The GO AI's are self taught, nothing to do with bad human habits. They weren't a collection of data, they made their own. AlphaGo is most significantly different from previous AI efforts in that it applies neural networks, in which evaluation heuristics are not hard-coded by human beings, but instead to a large extent learned by the program itself, through tens of millions of past Go matches as well as its own matches with itself. Not even AlphaGo's developer team are able to point out how AlphaGo evaluates the game position and picks its next move.

    It make moves that are literally impossible for humans to comprehend and we have no idea why.

    It's not a matter of "well now that the computer has broken the game entirely, lets study and learn from it to theory craft things that haven't been thought of in 2000 years", it's just... better than we can be at it. The 18 time world champion played against Alpha Go for five games. He won only one them. So a grand master might be able to beat it, but only barely and not consistently.

    And since then theres been two new programs that are even better.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hisoga View Post
    Guys, just want to ask regarding "controvercial" official spelling in One Piece for example like;

    Raftel vs Laugh Tale
    Shiryu vs Shilliew
    Maryjois/Maryjoa(?) vs Mary Geois
    Your mileage will vary but yes. It's pretty radically different from language to language. That doesn't matter so much with a word we process as foreign, and the only actual difference is how it was spelled in translation. But if it completely changes the structure of the word and makes it into a new phrase, that can be important.

    The Maryjoa case is okay, because it was always sort of a foreign strange sounding word, so that one boils down to how it was originally translated and what we're used to, and any of those spellings would be fine, like Jinbe/Jimbei, and that's just a matter of what you're used to.

    For the Shiryu example, it may read roughly the same to you, but in english it looks like the difference between "Sheer-you", a nice easily pronounceable word, and "Shamalamadingdonghooobityscoobity". We see the jumble of letters that is "Shilliew" and thats not only something our tounges can't pronounce, but there aren't really any english words with similar layouts of I's and L's it looks super duper weird and makes out brains freeze up just on seeing it because its such an unusual word with a crazy interpretation.

    You ran into this a lot in the early days of One Piece where translations were going through chinese and then to English, and so you ended up with names like Liar Bu, Clark Dell, and Tanjiahdo Lofulamingo. Like, sure, you say "Clark Dell" outloud enough times it starts to sound like "Crocodile", but that's not something you should need to suss out and decipher, its meant to be obvious and clear.

    As far as Raftel/Laugh Tale... it sounds pretty close and revealing, as a reveal, that was its actual name all along is neat, but it's kind of akin to finding out that you named your dog "Spot", and actually in Japanese that name means "Giraffe." It puts a very different feel and context to a word we'd thought was just a name for 22 years, so that's jarring and weird. Had it started that way then it'd be no big deal.

    Reverie/Levely is another one that's super weird because... okay, everything being level is probably Oda's intent in the naming, but its just not a real word and makes no sense in English.
    Last edited by Robby; August 14th, 2019 at 10:43 PM.
    To support Viz hosting all Jump manga for FREE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
    https://www.viz.com/shonenjump

    Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version, and just discuss those releases in the spoiler thread.

  16. #5516
    Undercover Shipwright Zeorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Top Secret

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Your mileage will vary but yes. It's pretty radically different from language to language. That doesn't matter so much with a word we process as foreign, and the only actual difference is how it was spelled in translation. But if it completely changes the structure of the word and makes it into a new phrase, that can be important.

    The Maryjoa case is okay, because it was always sort of a foreign strange sounding word, so that one boils down to how it was originally translated and what we're used to, and any of those spellings would be fine, like Jinbe/Jimbei, and that's just a matter of what you're used to.

    For the Shiryu example, it may read roughly the same to you, but in english it looks like the difference between "Sheer-you", a nice easily pronounceable word, and "Shamalamadingdonghooobityscoobity". We see the jumble of letters that is "Shilliew" and thats not only something our tounges can't pronounce, but there aren't really any english words with similar layouts of I's and L's it looks super duper weird and makes out brains freeze up just on seeing it because its such an unusual word with a crazy interpretation.

    You ran into this a lot in the early days of One Piece where translations were going through chinese and then to English, and so you ended up with names like Liar Bu, Clark Dell, and Tanjiahdo Lofulamingo. Like, sure, you say "Clark Dell" outloud enough times it starts to sound like "Crocodile", but that's not something you sheer need to suss out and decipher, its meant to be obvious and clear.

    As far as Raftel/Laugh Tale... it sounds pretty close and revealing, as a reveal, that was its actual name all along is neat, but it's kind of akin to finding out that you named your dog "Spot", and actually in Japanese that name means "Giraffe." It puts a very different feel and context to a word we'd thought was just a name for 22 years, so that's jarring and weird. Had it started that was then it'd be no big deal.

    Reverie/Levely is another one that's super weird because... okay, everything being level is probably Oda's intent in the naming, but its just not a real word and makes no sense in English.
    I think there are multiple problems with naming things between languages and as someone who taught English in Japan a lot of Japanese people have a hard time pronouncing foreign words just due to how few sounds Japanese has and the way Japanese words are essentially built with syllables or sounds and not letters. When words get translated directly between the two languages they change a lot, sometimes even when they should be very easy to pronounce. For example, Japanese actually uses a lot of English words and the word "new" literally sounds the exact same as "nu (ぬ or ヌ)" in Japanese and yet for some reason it became "nyu (ニュー)" maybe because "ew" can sound like "yu" and somebody translated the written version of the word instead of the actual pronunciation. I don't think there is a point trying to understand how some things translate so strangely.

    Shiryu vs Shilliew is easily understandable because Shiryu uses the Standard English Translation for Japanese, and Shilliew is like how someone would try and make an English word sound the exact same as how it sounds in Japanese with no real understanding of how strange it would actually look in English. Also Shiryu sounds more like Shilliew looks, so it's more like "she lee+you" (sorry the "l/r" straight to "you" doesn't really exist in English, you have to touch your tongue to the top of your mouth like making an L sound then go straight to "you" as your tongue comes down).

    Another example of the difficulties is that if you ask a native English speaker who has no knowledge of Japanese to listen to a Japanese person pronounce English words that have been incorporated into Japanese they wouldn't be able to understand half of them. Like "nyuu" instead of new. Table sounds like Taybooroo, McDonalds is Macoo Doenaroodoe. Sorry I'm trying to write phonetically so there is no misinterpretation of the sounds in English but English just has the problem of letters and letter combinations having multiple sounds. This is why a Standard English Translation, or at least that is what I will call it, is used but if someone with no understanding of Japanese sounds reads a Japanese word in English they just use the easiest English reading for it. So writing Shiryu is actually the correct way to write his name in English but because we wouldn't pronounce it "shi ryu" it becomes "shir yu" whereas we see "sushi" and naturally pronounce it as "su shi" because that looks like the best way to pronounce it.

    Unless the manga creator is actually very proficient at English you will end up with strange official translations as they have the final say and they might not study English or anything. They might just write something out, decide it looks cool written like that, and decide it is the official English translation. If the choices are between Shiryu and Shilliew, and neither look like native English, but Shiryu looks like Japanese English, than does that mean Shilliew looks more like English than Shiryu?

    I feel like I've accomplished nothing, but my point was that all this stuff is needlessly confusing and complicated because that is what happens when you try to translate directly between two languages that are so drastically different.
    Avatar Artist: Aapo Niemi

  17. #5517

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Your mileage will vary but yes. It's pretty radically different from language to language. That doesn't matter so much with a word we process as foreign, and the only actual difference is how it was spelled in translation. But if it completely changes the structure of the word and makes it into a new phrase, that can be important.

    The Maryjoa case is okay, because it was always sort of a foreign strange sounding word, so that one boils down to how it was originally translated and what we're used to, and any of those spellings would be fine, like Jinbe/Jimbei, and that's just a matter of what you're used to.

    For the Shiryu example, it may read roughly the same to you, but in english it looks like the difference between "Sheer-you", a nice easily pronounceable word, and "Shamalamadingdonghooobityscoobity". We see the jumble of letters that is "Shilliew" and thats not only something our tounges can't pronounce, but there aren't really any english words with similar layouts of I's and L's it looks super duper weird and makes out brains freeze up just on seeing it because its such an unusual word with a crazy interpretation.

    You ran into this a lot in the early days of One Piece where translations were going through chinese and then to English, and so you ended up with names like Liar Bu, Clark Dell, and Tanjiahdo Lofulamingo. Like, sure, you say "Clark Dell" outloud enough times it starts to sound like "Crocodile", but that's not something you sheer need to suss out and decipher, its meant to be obvious and clear.

    As far as Raftel/Laugh Tale... it sounds pretty close and revealing, as a reveal, that was its actual name all along is neat, but it's kind of akin to finding out that you named your dog "Spot", and actually in Japanese that name means "Giraffe." It puts a very different feel and context to a word we'd thought was just a name for 22 years, so that's jarring and weird. Had it started that was then it'd be no big deal.

    Reverie/Levely is another one that's super weird because... okay, everything being level is probably Oda's intent in the naming, but its just not a real word and makes no sense in English.
    Aah.. if you put it that way, i can understand it. yeah, language is very hard and many time doesn't make sense.
    also, when it come to Reverie/Levely, I totally agree with fanbase.
    I hope translators and mangakas can work closer in the future to create more consistance translation even though just like you said in the previous pages that even mangakas intent cannot 100% be translated due to their limited knowledge on other languages.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeorn View Post
    I think there are multiple problems with naming things between languages and as someone who taught English in Japan a lot of Japanese people have a hard time pronouncing foreign words just due to how few sounds Japanese has and the way Japanese words are essentially built with syllables or sounds and not letters. When words get translated directly between the two languages they change a lot, sometimes even when they should be very easy to pronounce. For example, Japanese actually uses a lot of English words and the word "new" literally sounds the exact same as "nu (ぬ or ヌ)" in Japanese and yet for some reason it became "nyu (ニュー)" maybe because "ew" can sound like "yu" and somebody translated the written version of the word instead of the actual pronunciation. I don't think there is a point trying to understand how some things translate so strangely.

    Shiryu vs Shilliew is easily understandable because Shiryu uses the Standard English Translation for Japanese, and Shilliew is like how someone would try and make an English word sound the exact same as how it sounds in Japanese with no real understanding of how strange it would actually look in English. Also Shiryu sounds more like Shilliew looks, so it's more like "she lee+you" (sorry the "l/r" straight to "you" doesn't really exist in English, you have to touch your tongue to the top of your mouth like making an L sound then go straight to "you" as your tongue comes down).

    Another example of the difficulties is that if you ask a native English speaker who has no knowledge of Japanese to listen to a Japanese person pronounce English words that have been incorporated into Japanese they wouldn't be able to understand half of them. Like "nyuu" instead of new. Table sounds like Taybooroo, McDonalds is Macoo Doenaroodoe. Sorry I'm trying to write phonetically so there is no misinterpretation of the sounds in English but English just has the problem of letters and letter combinations having multiple sounds. This is why a Standard English Translation, or at least that is what I will call it, is used but if someone with no understanding of Japanese sounds reads a Japanese word in English they just use the easiest English reading for it. So writing Shiryu is actually the correct way to write his name in English but because we wouldn't pronounce it "shi ryu" it becomes "shir yu" whereas we see "sushi" and naturally pronounce it as "su shi" because that looks like the best way to pronounce it.

    Unless the manga creator is actually very proficient at English you will end up with strange official translations as they have the final say and they might not study English or anything. They might just write something out, decide it looks cool written like that, and decide it is the official English translation. If the choices are between Shiryu and Shilliew, and neither look like native English, but Shiryu looks like Japanese English, than does that mean Shilliew looks more like English than Shiryu?

    I feel like I've accomplished nothing, but my point was that all this stuff is needlessly confusing and complicated because that is what happens when you try to translate directly between two languages that are so drastically different.
    I don't know japanese but this is cool and funny to me because reading this, I can actually understand why japanese choose "nyu (ニュー)" instead of "nu (ぬ or ヌ)" and other example. Based on our language, they do sound closer to the english counterpart.

  18. #5518

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    I'm sorry for my misunderstandment, but this was really confusing to me because of some unintentional ambiguity in both these phrases here: "If Go players find themselves giving up because there is an AI that can beat even the top masters in the World, then they were already limited to begin with. The Go AI is simply a collection of all our current data on the game, it should mark the beginning of one's mastery of the game."

    Anyway, all this debate was off topic, so I apologize to the other people too.
    No worries, I am more than happy to explain myself. It is my bad for being lazy in the first place and not expressing myself clearly.

    @Robby, as I already clarified above, I included the data generated by the GO AI through its multiple games against itself as "data we have of the game". I didn't express myself properly. Although, then you say that the AI used millions of previous matches besides the ones it played itself, so I am not sure how that doesn't qualify as data of the game. At the end of the day, I was talking about the inputs towards the AI, either done through supervised or unsupervised learning, it will still hold limitations with either approach.

    Otherwise, I disagree. Just because we cannot comprehend the moves done by the AI yet, it does not mean that game analysts are not going to try and understand why. Even the game you mentioned, the 4-1. The player and his professional friends were analyzing how the game progressed, which moves did the AI have difficulty with.

    So yes, now that we have achieved something that can play as well as grand masters, the way the game is taught can be changed. As little kids are pitied against: "world class opponents" in their beginning years, when they would require years of playing, tournaments to get to experience that level, now it can be used in conjunction with their current learning practices. So the idea is not: "can we study the AI game plan to beat it". As you say that is extremely unlikely/difficult. But you can definitely say: " Can we study the AI play to improve our(human) game plan".

    One last article: https://www.wired.com/story/deepmind...telligence/amp

    Talks about the limitations of current AI techniques, with a focus on supervised ai learning.
    Hidden:
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamiel View Post
    Try out my first game! All feedback is welcome, enjoy and thanks. Heroine: Kiku
    Hidden:

  19. #5519

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by K. Kira XXIII View Post
    No, otherwise predictive text would not be possible.
    You've lost me a bit here. If i understood ya correctly a "deeper" conversation with a lover or a friend is a specific edge scenario. But you don't think that those type of specific conversational scenarios make up the bulk of everyday conversations? Like i feel like i'm misunderstanding you or that we are talking about different things. Also i would very much like for someone to use a translator to have this conversation.



    That might be possible using brain wave manipulation.

    It all depends if you see these technologies as an enhancement or as a replacement. Thinking of the former and using Go as an example. If Go players find themselves giving up because there is an AI that can beat even the top masters in the World, then they were already limited to begin with. The Go AI is simply a collection of all our current data on the game, it should mark the beginning of one's mastery of the game. The same idea with language. Oda's idea of the translator as a replacement is really extreme. And you may feel able to live in an English society now, but at one point you were not. So maybe during your first week you cannot have incredibly deep conversations, but I am sure by the second you would start calling people fudge pockets all the same.

    Learning the language properly by studying it is one option. There are plenty of people that learn the language just by going to a place and being exposed constantly with it and having to learn it to survive and end up integrating into the society just fine. Using an AI translator for a week or two would not impede you from having meaningful conversation down the line.
    Oh yeah no i don't doubt even for a second that technology will make huge headways that make learning languages easier and makes basic communication easier. And the brain wave thing sounds sci-fi enough to work. I'm really just shit posting and poking fun at the fact that a dude in like his fifties holds the belief that he will live to see language education be fully replaced by star trek translators. It's like hey maybe i'll drop out of school since sooner or later they'll invent smart pills. Like it's not even being positive about the future, it's just being present day dumb. Alright i'm done with going at the strawman of what some dude never said now.

  20. #5520

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Sorry for the continued derailment. Something about One Piece...

    Oh! - Going by what Big Mom said that King is from the race that was supposed to be wiped out. So, when did this genocide occur? The most likely target is during the events of the Void Century. Which puts it around 800 years ago. I cannot imagine that King is that old, so he must have had parents, and consequently a tribe/group from where he came from. Unless it is revealed that the government managed to wipe out this group and King is in fact, the sole survivor of his race. We are going to eventually meet them.

    Now, thinking about protagonists, and considering the setting we have with the Void century and everything else related to it. (In other words, pretty much the entire series). The main question would be: is it necessary that a member of this race to join as the final member of the crew? The first counter-point would be: well, we have Jimbe already. The idea of a Fishman joining the crew started boiling in my mind since the auction house. We were seeing Nami grow as a character when she forgave Hacchi but most importantly, we got contrast. We saw that Fishmen, were small fish in the pond and actually a segregated race. Most importantly, Luffy whom is the one that is going to eventually break the status quo, was getting further groomed to represent this role. This gets further reinforced in Fishman Island (hero meat) and in WCI (Jimbe's speech).

    So, no, it is not completely necessary for the last member to be from this race. As the themes that come along with it can be expressed through Jimbe's character. However, considering where we are in the story. It becomes more likely that for the final crew member to be tied to the Void Century in some way. The Three-Eyed Tribe is also a good candidate for this considering that they probably have been chased around for their ability with the Voice of All things, and whatever further evolution of that power entails or however way Oda decides to handle the third eye power.
    Last edited by K. Kira XXIII; August 15th, 2019 at 07:44 AM.
    Hidden:
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamiel View Post
    Try out my first game! All feedback is welcome, enjoy and thanks. Heroine: Kiku
    Hidden:

+ Reply to Thread

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 6 users browsing this thread. (3 members and 3 guests)

  1. Jawad5
  2. Lord of Chaos

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts