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Thread: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

  1. #5441

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    So Mihawk, the holy land, BB's swordsman and the final island all got hit with the late game new spelling stick. My inner conservative wants to reject anything that is different from what i grew up with, but eh it is what it is

  2. #5442
    Your long-lost brother Jabra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    So Mihawk, the holy land, BB's swordsman and the final island all got hit with the late game new spelling stick. My inner conservative wants to reject anything that is different from what i grew up with, but eh it is what it is
    You want to tell me that Julakulil Mihawk isn't legit anymore?


  3. #5443

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabra View Post
    You want to tell me that Julakulil Mihawk isn't legit anymore?
    Juraquille 4 life. Gave him that Frenchy feel.

  4. #5444

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    I thought Raftel was a cool name but LaughtTale is much better.
    It reminds me of early OP, something that could have been said in East Blue.

  5. #5445
    POE WUN BGR Greg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Tough to say regarding Haki but in pure strength it's *possible* to argue he's stronger than Mom considering how he handles Bege.

  6. #5446

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Laftel, Levely, Loguetown... Oda always seems to drop an L where it seemed most logical to romanise with an R.

    Maybe Zolo isn't so far off the mark after all

  7. #5447
    Charismatic Awesome Joy Boy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Do you also think he'll try to outdo the Stampede fight in Wano ?


  8. #5448
    POE WUN BGR Greg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    It's his job to do exactly that and if he doesn't, that would be a huge letdown.

  9. #5449

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    It's his job to do exactly that and if he doesn't, that would be a huge letdown.
    Is there any chance of Luffy Law and Kid teaming up in a battle in the future? Like as a throwback to Sabody and also to show how far they've come and our still rivals? Probably not against Kaido cause of the whole legend of Momotaro thing though

  10. #5450

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    But in the anime is pronounced Raftel,right?

  11. #5451

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by NamiRobinFrankyAce View Post
    But in the anime is pronounced Raftel,right?
    Yes, but that's how you would say "Laugh Tale" in Japanese.

  12. #5452

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by NamiRobinFrankyAce View Post
    But in the anime is pronounced Raftel,right?
    Japanese combines the L and R sounds, as a result there are some words that when translated to English could have two totally different spellings, regardless of how they sound when pronounced or written in Japanese..

    There's a similar issue with Rouguetown/Louguetown (Did he intend Rouge as in criminal, or Louge as in prologue and epilogue?) and a few other spots.
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  13. #5453

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Well, we had (epi)logue town for a while. raftel was probably related to that from the begining.

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    I'll reject Laughtel until I see the movie tho. Out of sheer anger.

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  14. #5454
    Discovered Stowaway Artur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by NamiRobinFrankyAce View Post
    But in the anime is pronounced Raftel,right?
    In the movie a lot of characters emphasize the L at the beginning and the break between Laugh Tale, so it certainly seems to be an intentional change from this point on.

    Of course this is all relative due to how Ls and Rs blend in Japanese, but I still noticed a bit of a difference in the movie.
    Last edited by Artur; August 11th, 2019 at 11:17 AM.

  15. #5455

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    There's a similar issue with Rouguetown/Louguetown (Did he intend Rouge as in criminal, or Louge as in prologue and epilogue?) and a few other spots.
    I love the idea of Logue as in pro/epilogue, I think it fits really well with the story and the town's role in it, but isn't the Japanese name written with the long ou sound of Rogue? I'm no Japanese expert, but surely there would have been a way to write it with the shorder, harder o of pro/epilogue if that was what Oda intended.

  16. #5456

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain M View Post
    I love the idea of Logue as in pro/epilogue, I think it fits really well with the story and the town's role in it, but isn't the Japanese name written with the long ou sound of Rogue? I'm no Japanese expert, but surely there would have been a way to write it with the shorder, harder o of pro/epilogue if that was what Oda intended.
    First, as I already noted, translation is a crazy thing. There's not always a correct answer and its up to the local translator that's fluent in the language to make that call. As a result you can get a case like Jinbe/Jinbei/Jimbei where all are perfectly correct spellings. Meanwhile, Franky is officially Franky, but Flanky pops up from time to time and is clearly wrong.

    Second, Oda himself is not a fluent English speaker. 99.9% of the time author's intent is king, but not when it comes to different languages if they don't have a firm grasp on it or a pro translator helping them. A really clear example of this is Shilliew. The English translation made that "Shiryu" as is appropriate. The Japanese manga then later printed in english block letters "Shilliew". Ten years later, the data cards also went with "Shilliew", confirming that spelling. And then, just a couple weeks after that, he showed up in the manga again, and suddenly, in big english block letters, it was "Shiryu". Somewhere along the way, apparently very recently, Oda had someone tell him what it should be in English, and he changed it. Even though just a few weeks prior in the datacards it was different.

    Then there's other cases. 99.9% of the time, you DON'T translate a character's name. Because it's their name. We don't call Nami "Wave". But then you get Shirohige and Kurohige, Whitebeard and Blackbeard, and their names get translated for obvious reasons. Same with Inurashi and Nekomamushi... they became Dogstorm and Catviper. Because their names ARE specifically descriptors, you're meant to parse the meaning of their names as a native speaker and that gets lost. Yet similar named character Inuyasha, in the manga Inuyasha, doesn't get that translated and keeps his name. And Wanda didn't become "Barkda".

    Or you have a character like Rocks, which the translation makes into Rox just to be clear it's a name.

    There's a huge variety of things to consider in a translation.

    So yes, in theory he could have spelled Raftel in way that would clearly have all along translated in Laugh Tale. But, that would assume he was fluent in English, he cared about the English speaking audience, he understood how weird that would sound in English to a native speaker, and that it was an idea he had 22 years ago rather than recently. And that's a lot of assumptions to make on a *translation* issue when his main concern is the Japanese audience..


    I still think of Berserk where it's been Band of the Hawks for decades, in the anime, manga, merchandise, both english and japanese, and then a few years ago Muira revealed it was actually a long term star wars joke, so it was always supposed to be Band of the Falcon. A huge huge difference in sound and meaning... but that was the same in Japanese so it never really mattered or came up until there was an explicit "Millennium Falcon" reference. (Translations dealt with this by making the flashback group the Hawks, and the post-eclipse group the Falcons.)
    Last edited by Robby; August 11th, 2019 at 02:26 PM.
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  17. #5457

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    I remember talking about this when I 1st got the volume sets. There was some trivia in the 1st volume about the origins of the jolly roger and what it meant. It derived from the French term Jolie Rouge which means Red Lovely. It is a reference to blood.

    Then it said that the name and word Roger comes from the word rogue, which means thief or villain. Then it lastly says that in theory, Jolly Roger might mean Old Roger, which was used to refer to the Devil.

    When it comes to Romance, there are many meanings, so it's a pun.

    - satisfaction in the journey and mystery - Skypiea etc
    - the bonds formed through principles and will like with Luffy and Kata


    Even tho Rouge and Rogue are different, they can still possibly derive from the same source

  18. #5458
    POE WUN BGR Greg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    No difference in pronunciation of the 'final island' name in the movie as compared to the rest of the series. Not like they say it every week of course but nothing hit the Japanese fans I saw it with as different either.

    There wasn't a difference of pronunciation denoted in the script and I doubt the VAs paid much attention to even if they saw finished animation while recording.

    Same as always.

    When it comes to Romance, there are many meanings, so it's a pun.
    That's not a pun though.

    A pun is a humorous play on words.
    I think what you're looking for is double entente but it's not that either. It's simply one definition of romance. It hits Westerners as uncommon because of how we've come to prefer one definition, but the Japanese term 'roman' is exclusively used for pursuing a dream/passion.
    Last edited by Greg; August 11th, 2019 at 02:53 PM.

  19. #5459

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    True, double entendre is correct and pun is incorrect here.

    As a Westerner, I don't find it weird if the themes apply to that 1 definition. I feel like the trivia applies to Logue/Rogue town tho due to Roger's name and the theories provided

    https://imgur.com/hejF3ee

  20. #5460

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    First, as I already noted, translation is a crazy thing. There's not always a correct answer and its up to the local translator that's fluent in the language to make that call. As a result you can get a case like Jinbe/Jinbei/Jimbei where all are perfectly correct spellings. Meanwhile, Franky is officially Franky, but Flanky pops up from time to time and is clearly wrong.

    Second, Oda himself is not a fluent English speaker. 99.9% of the time author's intent is king, but not when it comes to different languages if they don't have a firm grasp on it or a pro translator helping them. A really clear example of this is Shilliew. The English translation made that "Shiryu" as is appropriate. The Japanese manga then later printed in english block letters "Shilliew". Ten years later, the data cards also went with "Shilliew", confirming that spelling. And then, just a couple weeks after that, he showed up in the manga again, and suddenly, in big english block letters, it was "Shiryu". Somewhere along the way, apparently very recently, Oda had someone tell him what it should be in English, and he changed it. Even though just a few weeks prior in the datacards it was different.

    Then there's other cases. 99.9% of the time, you DON'T translate a character's name. Because it's their name. We don't call Nami "Wave". But then you get Shirohige and Kurohige, Whitebeard and Blackbeard, and their names get translated for obvious reasons. Same with Inurashi and Nekomamushi... they became Dogstorm and Catviper. Because their names ARE specifically descriptors, you're meant to parse the meaning of their names as a native speaker and that gets lost. Yet similar named character Inuyasha, in the manga Inuyasha, doesn't get that translated and keeps his name. And Wanda didn't become "Barkda".

    Or you have a character like Rocks, which the translation makes into Rox just to be clear it's a name.

    There's a huge variety of things to consider in a translation.

    So yes, in theory he could have spelled Raftel in way that would clearly have all along translated in Laugh Tale. But, that would assume he was fluent in English, he cared about the English speaking audience, he understood how weird that would sound in English to a native speaker, and that it was an idea he had 22 years ago rather than recently. And that's a lot of assumptions to make on a *translation* issue when his main concern is the Japanese audience..


    I still think of Berserk where it's been Band of the Hawks for decades, in the anime, manga, merchandise, both english and japanese, and then a few years ago Muira revealed it was actually a long term star wars joke, so it was always supposed to be Band of the Falcon. A huge huge difference in sound and meaning... but that was the same in Japanese so it never really mattered or came up until there was an explicit "Millennium Falcon" reference. (Translations dealt with this by making the flashback group the Hawks, and the post-eclipse group the Falcons.)
    I've made a lot of the same arguments in discussions about translation. We're on exactly the same page regarding translation philosophy.

    The point I was going for was that in the specific case of Loguetown/Roguetown it can't just be an L and R swap. The word rogue, with its longer oh sound in the middle has a pretty noticeable difference in pronunciation to prologue, with the harder log at the end. The Japanese text, which operates in a mainly phonetic sense with foreign words, clearly indicates the former pronunciation.

    Unless of course it is because Oda isn't a native English speaker and he heard rogue then saw prologue and made the reasonable but wrong assumption they'd be pronounced the same in which case I don't even know.

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