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Thread: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

  1. #2461

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by BingBang View Post
    Big Mom is evil and twisted. She killed Zepo. Luffy is a pirate (normally pirates are evil) and he has not killed anyone.
    Sarcasm? If not: She spared Pedro IMMEDIATELY afterwards. So...50/50.

    Wait a second! Zepo was a flipping pirate! Who was there to help steal her poneglyphs. You can't blame someone for shooting a home intruder

    Quote Originally Posted by Long John Silvers Rayleigh View Post
    Technically greg would probably say luffy is "justified to kill" everyone that tries shooting him with a gun because they are making an attempt on his life, it's only because "even the mooks are of made of iron" that he doesnt kill everyone thats essentially taking a 50 mph bowling ball to the head. That and he doesnt like to kill so if he knocks them out its fine enough
    Dear lord, could you imagine what would happen if One Piece realistically depicted the effects of severe and high speed blunt force trauma to human bodies?! Luffy would have a John-Wick-level body count!
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  2. #2462

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by kevo_koma View Post
    Wait isn't the Cannibalism theory all but confirmed by the fact that all her food are infused with souls. She associates good tasty food with them being sentient..i wonder where she got that idea.

    Oh its because she ate all the people in the orphanage.
    You are literally describing an interpretation - not something that's been confirmed.

  3. #2463

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirxxx View Post
    Sarcasm? If not: She spared Pedro IMMEDIATELY afterwards. So...50/50.

    Wait a second! Zepo was a flipping pirate! Who was there to help steal her poneglyphs. You can't blame someone for shooting a home intruder



    Dear lord, could you imagine what would happen if One Piece realistically depicted the effects of severe and high speed blunt force trauma to human bodies?! Luffy would have a John-Wick-level body count!

    i don't see the sarcasm. you are a pirate and you kill someone: you are evil. you are a pirate and you don't kill anyone: you are only bad. In the world there are rules. Killing someone, even if they are trying to steal something you stole , is evil and more twisted if you play with someone life span with your own fruit.
    Last edited by BingBang; February 14th, 2018 at 11:56 AM.

  4. #2464

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by BingBang View Post
    Big Mom is evil and twisted. She killed Zepo. Luffy is a pirate (normally pirates are evil) and he has not killed anyone.
    That we know of. You could easily say that Luffy may have killed dozens between all of the countless Marines he's attacked, guards at Impel Down, etc. Luffy isn't holding back against cannon fodder because he doesn't want to kill them. He's going and attacking like any enemy. He doesn't usually doesn't go overboard, using Gear Fourth on some grunts. But he isn't holding back either.

    You could easily say that plenty of these people may have died from their injuries. Look at what happened to Lucci. Yes, he had a very extensive battle with Luffy. But even a tough guy like him was in horrible shape afterword and needed costly medical care to survive. Guys a lot weaker than Lucci have taken similar attacks from Luffy, but have been brushed off to the background.

    Here is the thing, though. Oda will never come out and say "Yeah, those guys Luffy attacked got hurt pretty badly, they're crippled for life/dead". And on the flipside he hasn't and likely won't have Luffy ever justify killing or not killing cannon fodder. They aren't important to the story. It's an assumption you can make on whether they die or not, but at the end of the day it's an aspect Oda won't dwell on.

    Are we really supposed to believe that every guy Zoro cuts up is fine with some bandages? Or every person that gets crippled by Robin is walking away just fine? Yes or no, it doesn't matter unless it's relevant to the story.

    The story right now isn't a "good pirate" versus "bad pirate" story. Luffy is evil to plenty in the One Piece world. Pushing aside people that hate him because of his family, he's a well established criminal who has invaded 3 of the Navy's major establishments, including their HQ. His crew consists of a "Pirate Hunter", a known thief, a girl who allegedly sunk multiple Naval battleships, and soon a former Warlord who betrayed the World Government. On paper, Luffy's a bit of an anarchistic anomaly.

    Look at what people said about Roger. They said he had a temper when it came to defending his crew. He wiped out Squard's crew, allegedly. And yet, every instance we've seen of Roger has portrayed him in a manner similar to Luffy.

    Is Big Mom's wheel fucked up? Absolutely. It's her weird candy land version of Saw. But, it doesn't cement her in a position where she is absolutely irredeemable. It's not like she's pulling random people off ships and making them spin the wheel. It's used on people in Tottoland, which as we've seen so far, has been used for people invading their territory and someone wanting to break a partnership that resulted in her getting tons of candy for her name protecting an island. It's pretty much only used when someone has directly fucked her over.

    Which, while it is psychological torture, a bit more lenient than other Pirates. I mean Pedro was able to come invade the territory a SECOND time after facing punishment. Could you imagine if someone had snuck on the Moby Dick and injured Whitebeard's crew the way the Strawhats have to Big Mom's crew? I don't think Whitebeard would be spinning a wheel for the opportunity to still have some years of your life to life, they'd just be getting a quaking spear in your chest.

    And would Whitebeard be an "evil" pirate for that? Nope.

    That's what I love about One Piece. It's something that was summed up in the last episode of the One Piece Podcast(which Greg was on). I believe it was Ed who said, "even if they are really bad, in One Piece the villains are still only like 89% evil". It's all about perspective.


    I'd actually really like to see some side story from a grunt's perspective of the death and destruction some of the Strawhat's leave in their battles. Something like that would be an interesting thing to see in something like the One Piece Magazines that came out last year.
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  5. #2465

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Md-Martin View Post
    That we know of. You could easily say that Luffy may have killed dozens between all of the countless Marines he's attacked, guards at Impel Down, etc. Luffy isn't holding back against cannon fodder because he doesn't want to kill them. He's going and attacking like any enemy. He doesn't usually doesn't go overboard, using Gear Fourth on some grunts. But he isn't holding back either.

    You could easily say that plenty of these people may have died from their injuries. Look at what happened to Lucci. Yes, he had a very extensive battle with Luffy. But even a tough guy like him was in horrible shape afterword and needed costly medical care to survive. Guys a lot weaker than Lucci have taken similar attacks from Luffy, but have been brushed off to the background.

    Here is the thing, though. Oda will never come out and say "Yeah, those guys Luffy attacked got hurt pretty badly, they're crippled for life/dead". And on the flipside he hasn't and likely won't have Luffy ever justify killing or not killing cannon fodder. They aren't important to the story. It's an assumption you can make on whether they die or not, but at the end of the day it's an aspect Oda won't dwell on.

    Are we really supposed to believe that every guy Zoro cuts up is fine with some bandages? Or every person that gets crippled by Robin is walking away just fine? Yes or no, it doesn't matter unless it's relevant to the story.

    The story right now isn't a "good pirate" versus "bad pirate" story. Luffy is evil to plenty in the One Piece world. Pushing aside people that hate him because of his family, he's a well established criminal who has invaded 3 of the Navy's major establishments, including their HQ. His crew consists of a "Pirate Hunter", a known thief, a girl who allegedly sunk multiple Naval battleships, and soon a former Warlord who betrayed the World Government. On paper, Luffy's a bit of an anarchistic anomaly.

    Look at what people said about Roger. They said he had a temper when it came to defending his crew. He wiped out Squard's crew, allegedly. And yet, every instance we've seen of Roger has portrayed him in a manner similar to Luffy.

    Is Big Mom's wheel fucked up? Absolutely. It's her weird candy land version of Saw. But, it doesn't cement her in a position where she is absolutely irredeemable. It's not like she's pulling random people off ships and making them spin the wheel. It's used on people in Tottoland, which as we've seen so far, has been used for people invading their territory and someone wanting to break a partnership that resulted in her getting tons of candy for her name protecting an island. It's pretty much only used when someone has directly fucked her over.

    Which, while it is psychological torture, a bit more lenient than other Pirates. I mean Pedro was able to come invade the territory a SECOND time after facing punishment. Could you imagine if someone had snuck on the Moby Dick and injured Whitebeard's crew the way the Strawhats have to Big Mom's crew? I don't think Whitebeard would be spinning a wheel for the opportunity to still have some years of your life to life, they'd just be getting a quaking spear in your chest.

    And would Whitebeard be an "evil" pirate for that? Nope.

    That's what I love about One Piece. It's something that was summed up in the last episode of the One Piece Podcast(which Greg was on). I believe it was Ed who said, "even if they are really bad, in One Piece the villains are still only like 89% evil". It's all about perspective.


    I'd actually really like to see some side story from a grunt's perspective of the death and destruction some of the Strawhat's leave in their battles. Something like that would be an interesting thing to see in something like the One Piece Magazines that came out last year.
    When you show me a picture or a page where Luffy kills someone intentionally im going to praise your looong argument. Until that day i think all your arguments are wrong. And Big Mom is evil of course. Dont know whats the point in all this empty discussion. If i show you the photo of someone you love and tell you im going to kill it if you dont do what i want then what im sn angel? really?

  6. #2466

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Can´t completely agree with that. There is no denying that OP has a very clear, and very idealistic morality to it.
    It´s just is not defined by affiliations or consequences of actions but your intention and for what reason you do it.
    Whether that´s right or not from out perspective is secondary but OP has never showcased any kind of ambiguity regarding the protagonist´s actions.
    From our point of view, Luffy´s actions, especially something like breaking into Impel Down, has very grave consequences and repercussions to it but within the manga itself, it was never portrayed as anything else than brave, determined and good for Luffy. Bringing your own morality to it is fine and all but there is still a difference between that and was is actually depicted.

    Luffy´s teams being criminals in a world that is run by scum is no coincidence and is not supposed to showcase "greyness" in the world.

  7. #2467

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by BingBang View Post
    i don't see the sarcasm. you are a pirate and you kill someone: you are evil. you are a pirate and you don't kill anyone: you are only bad. In the world there are rules. Killing someone, even if they are trying to steal something you stole , is evil and more twisted if you play with someone life span with your own fruit.
    No, I was just asking if your post was made sarcastically since I was about to give a non-sarcastic response to it, as to make sure I wasn't overanalyzing something said in jest. As for the evil thing: To each his own. The Bible states somewhere that all sin is sin--there is no great or small. While I don't really subscribe to the Bible, it's a convenient summary of how I feel about the evility of pirates. Have we ever seen Crocodile kill anyone in the story? Nobody comes to mind atm. Is he not evil in your eyes?
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  8. #2468

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirxxx View Post
    No, I was just asking if your post was made sarcastically since I was about to give a non-sarcastic response to it, as to make sure I wasn't overanalyzing something said in jest. As for the evil thing: To each his own. The Bible states somewhere that all sin is sin--there is no great or small. While I don't really subscribe to the Bible, it's a convenient summary of how I feel about the evility of pirates. Have we ever seen Crocodile kill anyone in the story? Nobody comes to mind atm. Is he not evil in your eyes?
    Crocodile is a "megalomaniac" of course. But i'm 100% sure he killed some pirates to become a Hero in Alabasta only to have more power and also he uses poison so more chances to kill his enemies. He has a personality capable of killing someone only to achieve his goal. So for that character you don't need to see him killing someone because Oda is showing us he is a criminal.

  9. #2469
    POE WUN BGR Greg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    I'm pretty sure the story tells us that the roulette wheel is a sham
    It's complete bollocks ^o^

    And yet, ***WHEN*** has she used it?

    1. She offered it to Jinbei when he wanted to break contract.

    Not only did she give him that chance, she also let him step back from it ^o^

    2. She used it on Zepo & gang when they *invaded her territory*.

    Both provoked cases as I've said for the umpteenth time.

    Is it kind? Of course not, but they're literally cases of people *as a result of their own choices* risking their life with her.

    That and he doesnt like to kill so if he knocks them out its fine enough
    This.

    Folks are acting like I'm saying Mom = Luffy-status ^_^;

    all i am saying is due to the degree of her shown depravity it has to be handled well to sustain credibility, that´s all.
    Also THIS.

    I do not believe that we can/should accept the family *as it is*. They don't appear to have crossed any lines but they need to be *fixed* like Luffy is so talented at doing.

    I think Luffy x Katakuri will go a long way towards that, but the biggest obstacle is Mom, getting her to understand her past, getting her to understand what she's done and to change course. I will applaud Oda if he can do that, and I'm pretty sure that's where he's heading.

  10. #2470

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    ^^
    Maybe the cake will be sooo good that it unlocks a part of her mind where she can remember everything that she has done while rampaging, evening eating mother Caramel. asspull?
    One Piece ,\/,,

  11. #2471

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by No swords style best style View Post
    But in that analogy, your friend gains nothing while the Skypeians still got peace, their homeland, and an entire city of gold goodies. I would say that what Luffy and co did was more akin to fishing coupons out of your friend's trash. Yes, that is technically illegal, but I seriously doubt your friend would care enough to report you. Even if everyone learned about what the SHs took, I can't imagine a stronger reaction than "oh, ok." or anyone bothering to go collect the gold themselves if the SHs didn't steal it.

    I mean, the SHs could have taken ANYTHING from the literal city of gold, but instead they opt to clean out the digestive tract of a giant snake. And again, that is technically "immoral" and the most noble thing possible to do would be to give it all the Skypeians, but this was supposed to be the Straw Hat Pirates finally committing some piracy, and I think Oda intentionally had them take something that wouldn't affect anybody at all in the long run so that the heroes of the story (saving countries > sharing meat :P) don't do something really "bad."
    It's not technically immoral, it is without doubt immoral.
    You're saying it yourself, the point of the scene was for the StrawHats to be piraty, which is, even in OP world, wrong. In our eyes it is of course redeemed because they stole the present the Skypeans were going to give them but even in the Strawhats eyes what they did was wrong.


    Also your analogy isn't working that well. Because if you were going through the trash it means your friend already saw what it was and threw it out, not in this case.
    This is like if you inherited an old house with a locked attic, your friend comes over and says "Oh, I can unlock it", and then after he unlocks it he decides to take whatever catches his eye without bothering to ask you. Maybe it's something that's filled with your family history, who cares right?
    According to you that's normal, according to the rest of the world that's a crime.

  12. #2472
    Discovered Stowaway No swords style best style's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by FolhaS View Post
    It's not technically immoral, it is without doubt immoral.
    You're saying it yourself, the point of the scene was for the StrawHats to be piraty, which is, even in OP world, wrong. In our eyes it is of course redeemed because they stole the present the Skypeans were going to give them but even in the Strawhats eyes what they did was wrong.


    Also your analogy isn't working that well. Because if you were going through the trash it means your friend already saw what it was and threw it out, not in this case.
    This is like if you inherited an old house with a locked attic, your friend comes over and says "Oh, I can unlock it", and then after he unlocks it he decides to take whatever catches his eye without bothering to ask you. Maybe it's something that's filled with your family history, who cares right?
    According to you that's normal, according to the rest of the world that's a crime.
    Alright, you got me. I'm the infamous Noswordio, culprit behind the snake gut theft of '09 and the mass trash raid of '13. I was just trying to justify my past misdeeds so the world would have mercy on my if my secret ever was leaked.

    I agree that it was supposed to be wrong, but Oda meant for us to think "this isn't really a terrible thing the protagonists are doing" with the context of the Skypeians wanting to give gold to the SHs and also, as I see it, the SHs taking their gold from inside a snake's belly rather than from the city of gold next door, which the Skypeians definitely cared more about.

    I wasn't clear about my analogy before, sorry. I was thinking about it in the context of "your friend threw away a magazine without looking inside of it and there were some coupons, and you took the coupons out of the trash without telling your friend." The idea being that if your friend found out about what you did they wouldn't really care. To use the attic example, I would find it absolutely immoral if my friend took something related to my family history without telling me. But if they took, I dunno, some old Berenstain Bears books without telling me? I wouldn't really care. I've got a crap ton of them and wouldn't have hesitated to give some away if asked. Which is how the Skypeans view their gold in relation to the SHs. So in the context of WHAT they took, not that they took something in general, I believe that Oda made it that way to not portray Luffy and co in a truely negative light, just like the context of how they were going to be freely given some gold as a thank-you gift. Nothing was stopping the SHs from raiding the city of gold or heck, even taking the golden bell, which would be completely immoral, even if the Skypeians never found out about it, because that is an object of great value to the Skypeians. A few trinkets inside Nola, on the other hand, has no value, sentimental or otherwise, to the Skypeians.

  13. #2473

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by No swords style best style View Post
    Alright, you got me. I'm the infamous Noswordio, culprit behind the snake gut theft of '09 and the mass trash raid of '13. I was just trying to justify my past misdeeds so the world would have mercy on my if my secret ever was leaked.

    I agree that it was supposed to be wrong, but Oda meant for us to think "this isn't really a terrible thing the protagonists are doing" with the context of the Skypeians wanting to give gold to the SHs and also, as I see it, the SHs taking their gold from inside a snake's belly rather than from the city of gold next door, which the Skypeians definitely cared more about.

    I wasn't clear about my analogy before, sorry. I was thinking about it in the context of "your friend threw away a magazine without looking inside of it and there were some coupons, and you took the coupons out of the trash without telling your friend." The idea being that if your friend found out about what you did they wouldn't really care. To use the attic example, I would find it absolutely immoral if my friend took something related to my family history without telling me. But if they took, I dunno, some old Berenstain Bears books without telling me? I wouldn't really care. I've got a crap ton of them and wouldn't have hesitated to give some away if asked. Which is how the Skypeans view their gold in relation to the SHs. So in the context of WHAT they took, not that they took something in general, I believe that Oda made it that way to not portray Luffy and co in a truely negative light, just like the context of how they were going to be freely given some gold as a thank-you gift. Nothing was stopping the SHs from raiding the city of gold or heck, even taking the golden bell, which would be completely immoral, even if the Skypeians never found out about it, because that is an object of great value to the Skypeians. A few trinkets inside Nola, on the other hand, has no value, sentimental or otherwise, to the Skypeians.
    I agree absolutly with the first part.
    What the StrawHats did was wrong, they're pirates, it's mostly what they do, but Oda found a way for us not to feel bad about the Skypeans and for us not to see the StrawHats as evil.
    But again, since they did not know about the Skypean's plans, they simply stole a ton of gold while thinking "We're stealing gold" the whole time. They knew it was wrong, we know it was wrong but not so bad and the Skypeans are still trying to figure out everything that happen.

    Also, two things.
    One, you're thinking about you personally. Obviously that's your first point of view but you gotta go a bit beyond it.
    You may not care about those childhood books but if the house belonged to someone else they might. Maybe they want to share those stories with their kids. The point being it's not for the friend to decide what matters to the owner of the house or not, it's always the owner of the house who should have the final say.

    Two, you're devaluating history alot. The berenstain books may be reprintable but unique lost-for-centuries artifacts are not.
    The golden city was lost up until that point. When the island was shot into the sky , the rightful owners, the Shandorians were kicked out by the skypeans, then hundreds of years later Enel finds the city and takes all the gold to build Maxim, then the Strawhats take a bunch of gold that remained. In the meanwhile no one actually checked to see if any of it contained any real information of any kind, if and how the golden trinkets were different from other similar trinkets, etc, etc.
    Oda clearly hasn't thinking about such things when he wrote it, and I don't blame him, but the whole situation is much more of a shame than what was portrayed if you dig into it.

  14. #2474

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Buggy D. Clown View Post
    ^^
    Maybe the cake will be sooo good that it unlocks a part of her mind where she can remember everything that she has done while rampaging, evening eating mother Caramel. asspull?
    You mean the cake tastes like Caramel?

  15. #2475
    Live Fast Grow Fat Roronoa Zacho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Buggy D. Clown View Post
    ^^
    Quote Originally Posted by Buggy D. Clown View Post
    Maybe the cake will be sooo good that it unlocks a part of her mind where she can remember everything that she has done while rampaging, evening eating mother Caramel. asspull?
    I guess it is Pudding's Task to Show Streusen's Memory to BM. Otherwise her ability would have been pretty wasted. She used it once to Show the Reader what this ability is like and a second time to stop some fodder-homies iirc.
    I just don't know where or how she will get Streusen, who we last saw at the Chateau.

    Bout the debate wether BM is evil or not:
    I had the Impression, that since her official intro she has been totally contradictory . We saw this wonderland of Sweets and Food, whereas se said "is it jam or blood? Who cares?".

    Her dream is almost childishly naive but good in the bottomline. Her whole flashback told us, that if she wasn't such a Monster strength-wise, she would probably run a candy-shop now or sth. Her flashback also reminded me of Chopper's:
    good intentions, bad outcome.
    Also she wants her Family to be giants. IDK if this is good-hearted or if she has a Military Agenda behind that. Wouldn't it be easier for CC to make BM smaller, so she is the same size as her Family?

    And in the last chapter (894) Oda played this game again. From her "skin-and-bones"-look I honestly don't know if I should be scared of her, or feel pity for her. Her burning-hair-form was awesome anyway. Kinda reminded me of Enel's last form, before Luffy punched him against the bell.
    You could also say she didn't destroy the Sunny "intentionally". She was just lookin for the cake. If she wanted to destroy it, you would have now tiny bits of Sunny-(Wood-)Chips.
    I just hope that she will be relevant again for the Story when the SHs reach Elbaf.
    My imagination of Moria's ol' crew: https://ibb.co/hEDSv8

  16. #2476

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Meanwhile, I'm just here hoping for NO "redemption" for Big Mom. She's fine just the way she is; heck, it's the only reason she's a Yonkou. And her being her is what has made her such a great foil this arc.

    Also, I've had quite enough of the "evil woman wasn't evil she actually just needed saving" trope in One Piece, thank you very much.
    Quote Originally Posted by .access timeco. View Post
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  17. #2477

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirxxx View Post
    Meanwhile, I'm just here hoping for NO "redemption" for Big Mom. She's fine just the way she is; heck, it's the only reason she's a Yonkou. And her being her is what has made her such a great foil this arc.

    Also, I've had quite enough of the "evil woman wasn't evil she actually just needed saving" trope in One Piece, thank you very much.
    Yeah, that trope will probably never die. Didn't you know? There's no such thing as an evil woman, only a woman hurt by her circumstances and in need of help. I hate it too but Oda is hellbent on it.

    Which is why a lot of long-terms fans or just fans who keep up with Oda's story habits are already anticipating a redemption. Not that people want a redemption to occur but that given Big Mom's status as a female and the way her past has been shown is a very good sign that a redemption will occur.

    I guess Greg is just trying to ease the pain for fans who will be in denial and hate the redemption development early on (like with Sanji's cake-baking).

  18. #2478
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    I'm fine with a potential Big Mom redemption because it's been the only time that a girl turning good has been interesting for since, I don't know, Vivi and Robin. And she would actually change, not have a secret selfless agenda or something like that.

    Sure, Pudding is technically doing that too. But I don't care about her. She's only good for looking into Streussen's memories lol.

    Spoiler:
    "Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."

  19. #2479
    POE WUN BGR Greg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    I don't think it has anything to do with gender so much as it does characters Oda wants to like.

    This is difficult for him because I personally think he finds it difficult to *write for* characters he doesn't like.

    I do not feel this is how it was for him in the beginning. There were fewer greys and more black and white between good and bad.

    He evolved into an author who understands the greys quite well. And I respect that. He's obviously very good at what he does.

    I think nowadays, he's hesitant to make a character pure evil.

    Pretty sure the only character he's done that for is Mingo and Hody.

    And there exist one important difference between them, how they were made evil.

    Hody was *made* evil by *ignorance of the times*.

    Mingo was simply *born* evil.

    When it comes down to it, those are the only characters I can think of that are actually what we can call irredeemably evil *at this point*.

    That is to say, characters who are evil not by choice, but because of what they were made or dealt in life which...is pretty sad when you think about it.

    I also feel this is why Oda refuses to draw Mingo's eyes. I think he wants him to stand out as *the* character in the series who was born inherently evil. It's a way of subconsciously showing us he's different than others.

    Glasses are *very* important to Oda and it's clear that he's deliberately using them as a blocker to any semblance of Mingo's humanity. Just note how he utilized them in FILM Z.

    When Z's glasses break, we see the return of his humanity. Seriously check it out. He even rushes the screen and the main focus is his eyeball through the single shattered lens.

    Some of you might be crying bloody murder over Spandam and the Celestial Dragons at this point. While I certainly agree that they are a vile bunch, not only do we need to know more about how the Celestials came to be the way they are, they belong in a category of 'evil born of ignorance' (not 'of the times') and in the case of Spandam, he's played off as a slap-stick buffoon hiding behind his father. Some of the celestials are played off as buffoons hiding behind their name, but there isn't much (as far as we've seen) slap-stick involved with them.

    Going back to sunglasses, it's no coincidence that Roswald and Jalmack both wear them so he's definitely lining them up to be in the same league as Mingo but he might treat them more like Hody in the end, having a punishment.

  20. #2480

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Okay Greg going by your post, I would guess that the Japanese version of 764 is simular to the english version, saying that Dolflamingo was born evil.

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