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Thread: Undertale and Deltarune

  1. #21

    Default Re: What are you Playing?

    Finished my perfect pacifist run, gonna start on genocide tomorrow.
    Kind of scared of the final genocide boss, from what I've heard...

  2. #22
    Voici La Chévre Wagomu's Avatar
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    Default Re: What are you Playing?

    It sounds like you're gonna have a bad time.

    I couldn't finish the Genocide run. I probably could have beaten the last boss given enough time, but I couldn't go through with finishing it, haha.

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  3. #23

    Default Re: What are you Playing?

    I don't think I can do a genocide run. I can't kill my pals.

    Heck, it tore at my heart-strings even just leaving Toriel (alive and well) in the ruins at the start.

    I am not, however, above watching one. Honestly, I've been ingesting this game in various ways for the past several days, and it's not an exaggeration at all to say it has still been continuously delighting me with new facets. This is easily one of the most engaging games I have played in a long, long time, to say nothing of relative to its price point (10 measly dollars!!)

  4. #24

    Default Re: What are you Playing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wagomu View Post
    It sounds like you're gonna have a bad time.

    I couldn't finish the Genocide run. I probably could have beaten the last boss given enough time, but I couldn't go through with finishing it, haha.
    ...Spent the last two hours attempting the final battle, and I almost got to see the "special attack" once. Feeling good about tomorrow.
    This still isn't as intimidating as Solgryn in IWBTB, which took a good two weeks of trying, and this is way more fun to boot ;)

    Anyway, the pacifist->genocide order has a ton of emotional punch to it, and despite the extra content/text for doing it the other way around, I almost feel like this is how it was meant to be done. Or maybe the game's just so good that there's emotional punch either way.

  5. #25
    Voici La Chévre Wagomu's Avatar
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    Doing the run was weird. I can detach myself from games pretty well, but as I went on, I just felt worse and worse about it. Blame the game for showing memory and awareness of your actions, but it really made me reflect on my awareness, too. I think it is well worth at least attempting to play a Genocide run to see how far you can make it and then maybe watch the rest. I think understanding the game's full statement requires engagement with each of the game's paths.

    Spoilers for those who haven't beaten/seen both:

    Spoiler:
    Having both endings gives you the full scope of the meaning of determination and is a brutal examination of the player's relationship to the game. I find it brilliant that the genocide run takes as much tedious effort as it does with the grinding and additional challenge, since it really makes you work to ruin everyone's lives. Flowey pretty much calls you out on it, playing through each variation of the game just to see what's different, not caring about who gets hurt in the process. This is the crux of the game to me. Why do we game? Why do we feel the desire to fully complete a game? How does that reflect on who we are? What do we actually care for these characters that we can feel so emotional towards? Even the idea of selling your soul and ruining the game just to play it again questions why you would want to return to a world that you have shown nihilistic intent towards. Engaging with the ending has made me reevaluate the way I see games and, now that I think of it, media as a whole. Non-interactive media, though, doesn't have the ability to put you in control of the lives of its characters. This is a message that can only be delivered by a game. This is why I have so much praise for Undertale, beyond its charm, humor and outstanding gameplay for an RPG. It poses important questions about the nature of games that I think engaging with could really grow the depths of the medium.

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  6. #26

    Default Re: What are you Playing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wagomu View Post
    Spoiler:
    Having both endings gives you the full scope of the meaning of determination and is a brutal examination of the player's relationship to the game. I find it brilliant that the genocide run takes as much tedious effort as it does with the grinding and additional challenge, since it really makes you work to ruin everyone's lives. Flowey pretty much calls you out on it, playing through each variation of the game just to see what's different, not caring about who gets hurt in the process. This is the crux of the game to me. Why do we game? Why do we feel the desire to fully complete a game? How does that reflect on who we are? What do we actually care for these characters that we can feel so emotional towards? Even the idea of selling your soul and ruining the game just to play it again questions why you would want to return to a world that you have shown nihilistic intent towards. Engaging with the ending has made me reevaluate the way I see games and, now that I think of it, media as a whole. Non-interactive media, though, doesn't have the ability to put you in control of the lives of its characters. This is a message that can only be delivered by a game. This is why I have so much praise for Undertale, beyond its charm, humor and outstanding gameplay for an RPG. It poses important questions about the nature of games that I think engaging with could really grow the depths of the medium.
    Love it.

    There've been a few games since gaming started that exemplified the medium and showed what it can do that other media can't, and this one definitely joins those ranks. But in more than a basic "ah, yeah, I see- games can be art" way (like your average SoTC or Majora's Mask) that might convince naysaying laymen. One thing I find interesting is how obtuse and ineffective Undertale would be for a newcomer to video games. They'd see the anti-tropes and fourth-walling, sure, but so much of the subversion relies on finely-tuned expectations and a love for the medium. I feel like so much of what I appreciate in this one, as well as at least part of the conclusions you came to about nihilistic engagement, can only emerge if one has enough background to reflect on those ideas (playing for sake of playing, completionism, and blind determination in EITHER direction- because I believe the pacifist route was also meant to require some aggravating teeth-gritting as you endure waves of attacks without retaliation, all in the name of achieving the abstract, ephemeral "perfect" ending).

    But anyone who does game would be remiss to pass up Undertale. It really elevates the craft in a way very few other games have done for me, and in a completely novel way.

    Thinking of writing a Gamefaqs review for it... Hmm...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wagomu View Post
    Contemplating buying the soundtrack and making a formal writeup for it.
    Also, please do this- I'd read every word. I broke down and paid the $10 on bandcamp for the album yesterday. I don't remember the last time that a game's soundtrack was basically playing on rotation in my brain like this (basically every boss tune and main area theme is gold)...

  7. #27
    MALKIOR THE DESTROYER KaizokuJinbei's Avatar
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    Default Re: Undertale by Toby Fox

    Papyrus is all people need to know
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  8. #28

    Default Re: Undertale by Toby Fox

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthAsthma View Post
    Spoiler:
    I'll do that tomorrow! I got the ending without having all friends unlocked I think? So he told me to try again and visit dino lady.
    Still really amused about getting trolled by the game. I honestly thought the game just broke and tried finding a fix with no success before giving up.
    Pure coincidence that I found out that it's all intentional.
    Oh yeah! THAT! That blew my mind! It's so good that I don't want to spoil it for like, anyone at all.

    Hmmm... Yeah, I suggest "walking back" to the hotal because you aren't even done. What I was talking about earlier was before the true pacifist ending, while the one you are talking about is just the neutral one.

  9. #29
    The Age of Smiles Devil G.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Undertale by Toby Fox

    I started playing yesterday, and I'm gonna miss lots of secrets for sure. I can't figure out how to play the cave's song, and I ate the Snowman Piece twice too :I
    Last edited by Devil G.; September 27th, 2015 at 06:14 AM. Reason: "Look at my hat!"

  10. #30

    Default Re: Undertale by Toby Fox

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil G. View Post
    I started playing yesterday, and I'm gonna miss lots of secrets for sure. I can't figure out how to play the cave's song, and I ate the Snowman Piece twice too :I
    I played through the game once (more or less) to get one of the 'best' endings, and then proceeded to binge on reading about things I'd missed, because I wasn't planning on playing again. I read through a forum thread where people were unabashedly talking about hidden details they'd found, as well as watched a number of other people playing, and found all sorts of things, both major and minor, that I had entirely missed out on.

    I watched another person stream part of the game blind just last night (because I'm only slightly addicted), and within the roughly hour that I was watching, they found three more things that I still hadn't known about, either from my own play or through my earlier binge.

    Point being, you're most definitely right in that you won't experience every little bit this game has in a single play; especially so when you consider that this is simply a matter of little things you can miss, and not accounting for the fact that the game is amazingly good about reacting differently to different ways you choose to play.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Undertale by Toby Fox

    Quote Originally Posted by Panda Bear View Post
    the game is amazingly good about reacting differently to different ways you choose to play.
    That for sure.
    It's honestly like two games in one, which is why it makes me sad to read about people quitting genocide after killing Toriel or whatever. Sure, maybe it's achieved its thematic job if it actually prompts that response, but the creativity put into making you feel so bad deserves appreciation. ...And *spoiler* is an amazingly good final boss.

  12. #32

    Default Re: Undertale by Toby Fox

    Ya'll have convinced me... I'll be picking this up at some point.
    To support Viz hosting all Jump manga for FREE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
    https://www.viz.com/shonenjump

    Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
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  13. #33
    The Age of Smiles Devil G.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Undertale by Toby Fox

    Going for a Pacifist run, I
    Spoiler:
    killed Toriel in the first one. ( 1-Hit kill :/)
    Undertale and LISA are probably my favourite games out of the ones I've played this year.

    PD: Burgerpants is the best character.


  14. #34
    Voici La Chévre Wagomu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Undertale by Toby Fox

    I keep hearing Undertale getting compared to LISA. The latter is definitely on my 'to do' list along with Life is Strange. It seems like this is a good year for narrative in games.

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  15. #35

    Default Re: Undertale by Toby Fox

    To be honest it's a pretty good year for gaming overall. MGS V for gameplay system insanity, Witcher 3 for open world narrative, Bloodborne for animation/control brilliance, there's quite a number of games that just straight up surprise/surpass at least on a single aspect compared to their genre predecessors while being acceptable to good/on par on all the other fronts.
    -------------------------
    Finally finished my full Pacifist run a pretty satisfying experience. Really not feeling the genocide run right now, really the only thing nagging at me is that box with the monster near it rambling about me pushing wrong or something along those lines. Couldn't figure out what that was all about.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Undertale by Toby Fox

    Lisa's biggest flaw is really just its tedious combat system. Aside that, it's a brilliant game. It's just really depressing without a single glimmer of hope. It's fucked up

  17. #37

    Default Re: Undertale by Toby Fox

    Well THAT was an experience!
    The ending was just ... goddammit. Just ... play this game if you haven't!!

    I finished the game with a ... mixed run, i guess? I was killing stuff most of the time and sparing some here and there ...
    Really eager to see how a pacifist-run will work out in the end.
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  18. #38

    Default Re: Undertale by Toby Fox

    Roughly how long is the game? I kind of want to just play how I want to play, but if doing straight pacifist (kill nothing) or genocide (kill everything?) are the optimum ways to play, I may want to start on one route or the other... unless its really short like 2 hours, I dont forsee having time for three full runs.
    To support Viz hosting all Jump manga for FREE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
    https://www.viz.com/shonenjump

    Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version, and just discuss those releases in the spoiler thread.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Undertale by Toby Fox

    If you are hunting down flavor text/side stuff scattered all over, the game is longer. 10 hours at most if you don't waste time. This is solely the first playthrough though. The game itself I feel is around 4-6 hours long if you blaze through it, but I'm not sure about the additional time that goes with genocide hunting.

    However, you CAN get both neutral and pure pacifist on the same playthough though. Even if you don't kill anything, the game sets up the nuetral ending first and it basically tells you what to do for the perfect ending once you reload the save.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Undertale by Toby Fox

    I'd also recommend what Hiroy said: neutral->pure pacifist, on the same run. So just never kill anything. I think my first run, that way, took about 7 hours. I explored a little bit, and got stuck on a boss or two.

    ...Then genocide, the majority of which can basically be played on autopilot as you walk back and forth pokemon-egg-hatching style to get every last random encounter (I watched netflix for most of that...). Beyond that, genocide's length really depends on how much two particular bosses grind your face into the pavement.

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