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Thread: Chapter 785: Even if my legs were broken...

  1. #621

    Default Re: Chapter 785: Even if my legs were broken...

    Quote Originally Posted by Verus View Post
    Heh. You will find no approval for the so called Sabo in me.

    I'm rooting for Burgess all the way. At the very least, he is less bland. And annoying.
    Burgess is less Bland than Sabo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Verus View Post
    And the fact that he is almost certain to be stopped whatever he decides to do makes me sad.
    I think Burgess will succeed in taking away the Smiles. There won't really be much point in him being present in the arc otherwise.
    Calling it now. Dragon's powers from Loguetown and Gray Terminal were not the result of some Devil Fruit. It was CoC.

  2. #622

    Default Re: Chapter 785: Even if my legs were broken...

    Quote Originally Posted by hosemisnuba View Post
    Calling it now, Burgess will act as the Kuma of the arc.
    And Zoro will cut him in half in an instant. Too much over rating of Burgess in this forum.

  3. #623
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    Default Re: Chapter 785: Even if my legs were broken...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sereques View Post
    And Zoro will cut him in half in an instant. Too much over rating of Burgess in this forum.
    I don't mean he will be like Kuma in the sense that he will crush everyone; what I do mean, however, is that he will generate tension after the main villain falls, and the main villain is a warlord, like the Kuma scenario. That said, if he loses to Sabo in their upcoming confrontation, I will be sorely disappointed.

  4. #624
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    Default Re: Chapter 785: Even if my legs were broken...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vectorkov View Post
    Sabo needs a humbling loss. Losing against Burgess because he underestimates him after their last encounter would be great.
    Would be, yes.

    It won't happen though. Cool elder brother character losing a fight in the arc he made his re-appearance? The possibility of that is about 0,2%.

    Oda used up all of his plots that don't follow the Battle Shonen standarts on Marineford.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyMerlyn View Post
    Burgess is less Bland than Sabo?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyMerlyn View Post
    I think Burgess will succeed in taking away the Smiles. There won't really be much point in him being present in the arc otherwise.
    At best, and even that isn't certain. In the similar fashion that his plot regarding Mera Mera went nowhere.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by hosemisnuba View Post
    I don't mean he will be like Kuma in the sense that he will crush everyone; what I do mean, however, is that he will generate tension after the main villain falls, and the main villain is a warlord, like the Kuma scenario.
    As I said before, worry not, Sabo the Tension Killer is about to do what he does best.

    Sorry if I come off as overly pessimistic, I simply don't see Oda as being willing to make Burgess a Kuma-like threat.

    Quote Originally Posted by hosemisnuba View Post
    That said, if he loses to Sabo in their upcoming confrontation, I will be sorely disappointed.
    He won't lose, but he won't win either.

  5. #625

    Default Re: Chapter 785: Even if my legs were broken...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vectorkov View Post


    Sabo needs a humbling loss. Losing against Burgess because he underestimates him after their last encounter would be great.

    Another one hoping Burgess have some innate "power" we are yet to see.

  6. #626
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    Default Re: Chapter 785: Even if my legs were broken...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sereques View Post
    Another one hoping Burgess have some innate "power" we are yet to see.
    Burgess does have a power like that.

    It's called not fighting on screen.

    Though, I would not blame people for that belief. It's Oda's fault for overhyping Blackbeard Pirates.

  7. #627

    Default Re: Chapter 785: Even if my legs were broken...

    Hopefully Burgess eats one of the DF he is supposedly carrying, giving him an upper hand against Sabo. (Extreme wishful thinking)

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  8. #628
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    Default Re: Chapter 785: Even if my legs were broken...

    Quote Originally Posted by YoiYoi View Post
    Hopefully Burgess eats one of the DF he is supposedly carrying, giving him an upper hand against Sabo. (Extreme wishful thinking)
    You know what would be awesome? If the fruits he was carrying were not smiles, but Doffy's secret stash of devil fruits that are more powerful than that, therefore providing an opportunity to give Burgess some nice and badass power-up.

  9. #629

    Default Re: Chapter 785: Even if my legs were broken...

    Quote Originally Posted by Verus View Post
    Burgess does have a power like that.

    It's called not fighting on screen.

    Though, I would not blame people for that belief. It's Oda's fault for overhyping Blackbeard Pirates.
    There is no evidence that supports it. Throughout the course of the arc, a lot of power levels have been assumed. Burgess is one of them.

  10. #630

    Default Re: Chapter 785: Even if my legs were broken...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sereques View Post
    Another one hoping Burgess have some innate "power" we are yet to see.
    My point was Sabo could possibly get wrecked because he underestimates Burgess, not because Burgess has some innate power like you mockingly describe. Burgess is also most likely holding a bag of devil fruits, which could be a wildcard if he chose to eat one.

  11. #631

    Default Re: Chapter 785: Even if my legs were broken...

    Quote Originally Posted by Daz View Post
    Most people were happy this past decade, they friggin LOVED Doflamingo and the wealth and prosperity he brought, and were lapping up his horrible Coliseum violence. The Dressrosan people, especially of the past 10 years, were not simply just "a passionate people", but a prideful, bloodthirsty bunch of sheeple, which I think was a plot point way back when.
    So no, Riku, most people had no idea of living 10 years as "puppets" in a "cage"; Most people are just having a really, really sucky day.
    Well, King Riku brought them wealth and prosperity before that.
    Realizing that family members and friends just vanished out of your life without you even remembering them, i think that really sucks.
    Only those who were playing by the rules didn`t end as toys, so you could argue they are like some germans during the nazi-regime.
    Ignoring obvious stuff or simply turning a blind eye on the occurrences around them.

    Quote Originally Posted by joesephes View Post
    ....maybe if its possible that she already had awakened her fruit and we didn't even noticed it until now. I mean it does make a lot of sense if you think about it.
    I don`t get where people get the impression that awakening is a thing that may happen just like that.
    I mean a guy like Luffy who rly trained his ability and is strong as hell hasn`t so far awakened his DF.
    There is no way that ordinary DF users awakened their DF or will ever do.
    At least in my opinion and judging how Doffy taunts Luffy not even being close to such a level of control.
    (as long as Oda doesn`t pull a Haki can awaik in everyone suddenly, because than it might happen to every DF user out of shock or some shit..than Robin might have gone through enough ;)
    UnrevealedVegapunk/Ryokugyu/Loki/Rocks/Im-san
    IslandElbaf/Raftel/GodValley
    UnresolvedWeevil´s plan/Explaining DFs/Deal with Kuma-Bonney´s past/Joy-Boy/Zunisha´s story/Rocks flashback/Void Century/Rioponeglyph/Uranus/the D.clan
    DFWind/Metal/Wood/Acid/Liquid/Time-Stop

  12. #632
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    Default Re: Chapter 785: Even if my legs were broken...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sereques View Post
    There is no evidence that supports it. Throughout the course of the arc, a lot of power levels have been assumed. Burgess is one of them.
    Just in case you missed it, I was making a joke about the increase in succes of Blackbeard pirates when they are not shown on panel. No actually thinking that there is some special power that Burgess has.

    ... I thought it was pretty obvious.

  13. #633

    Default Re: Chapter 785: Even if my legs were broken...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vectorkov View Post
    My point was Sabo could possibly get wrecked because he underestimates Burgess, not because Burgess has some innate power like you mockingly describe. Burgess is also most likely holding a bag of devil fruits, which could be a wildcard if he chose to eat one.
    You all seem to forget Sabo is not strong because of Mera Mera, he was already powerful. He crushed the platform with his bare hands, blocked Bastille blade with bare hands. Burgess thought he could take Luffy, that's why he went for Sabo in the final round. Sabo was faster than him and he kept toying with him while the big idiot kept smiling.

    Again, no evidence Burgess in carrying a DF. The burglars bag is designed that way. If you look at the front cover of Chapter 736, the burglar cat wrapped it's head with similar material. The idea that Burgess ate some fruit that will make him bridge the gap between himself and Sabo is another wishful thinking.

    Honestly, this assumptions is getting on par with Meadows is Kaido theories or that Kyros defeated MiHawk during his 1000 victories at the coliseum.

  14. #634

    Default Re: Chapter 785: Even if my legs were broken...

    Quote Originally Posted by Verus View Post
    Yes.
    Spoiler:

    I don't understand what makes him interesting, but whatever. We just have different tastes I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Verus View Post
    At best, and even that isn't certain. In the similar fashion that his plot regarding Mera Mera went nowhere.
    His plot regarding Mera Mera? Both Rebecca and Luffy had better reasons and once Sabo joined, it was obvious.
    Stealing smiles on the other hand doesn't conflict with anyone but Doflamingo. So, he is free to take them.
    But if his eyes are on Luffy as well, Sabo ain't gonna let that happen.
    Calling it now. Dragon's powers from Loguetown and Gray Terminal were not the result of some Devil Fruit. It was CoC.

  15. #635

    Default Re: Chapter 785: Even if my legs were broken...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sereques View Post
    Honestly, this assumptions is getting on par with Meadows is Kaido theories or that Kyros defeated MiHawk during his 1000 victories at the coliseum.
    ... Was that a real theory?

  16. #636

    Default Re: Chapter 785: Even if my legs were broken...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sereques View Post
    And Zoro will cut him in half in an instant. Too much over rating of Burgess in this forum.
    No there isn't.
    Maybe before the arena fight when people were saying he's admiral level but now you have a bunch of fools like saying that a Yonkou commander can't even fight Zoro when he's all but shown he's capable and has the status to prove it because "Waaaaaaah he didn't stomp Sabo and win the arena all he did was clash with Sabo who used an arena busting attack and come out unscathed throwing out casual elbows that shook the entire Colosseum and get the ground beneath him destroyed."
    Pre-skip Burgess was leaping into the air with hotels and throwing them with relative ease.
    He should be a monster now.

  17. #637

    Default Re: Chapter 785: Even if my legs were broken...

    Quote Originally Posted by springsring View Post
    No there isn't.
    Maybe before the arena fight when people were saying he's admiral level but now you have a bunch of fools like saying that a Yonkou commander can't even fight Zoro when he's all but shown he's capable and has the status to prove it because "Waaaaaaah he didn't stomp Sabo and win the arena all he did was clash with Sabo who used an arena busting attack and come out unscathed throwing out casual elbows that shook the entire Colosseum and get the ground beneath him destroyed."
    Pre-skip Burgess was leaping into the air with hotels and throwing them with relative ease.
    He should be a monster now.
    Not trying to say that Zoro is stronger than Burgess, but he has done his share of weightlifting since forever.
    Calling it now. Dragon's powers from Loguetown and Gray Terminal were not the result of some Devil Fruit. It was CoC.

  18. #638

    Default Re: Chapter 785: Even if my legs were broken...

    Quote Originally Posted by springsring View Post
    No there isn't.
    Maybe before the arena fight when people were saying he's admiral level but now you have a bunch of fools like saying that a Yonkou commander can't even fight Zoro when he's all but shown he's capable and has the status to prove it because "Waaaaaaah he didn't stomp Sabo and win the arena all he did was clash with Sabo who used an arena busting attack and come out unscathed throwing out casual elbows that shook the entire Colosseum and get the ground beneath him destroyed."
    Pre-skip Burgess was leaping into the air with hotels and throwing them with relative ease.
    He should be a monster now.

    Zoro also threw a building pre-timeskip. That signifies nothing.

  19. #639

    Default Re: Chapter 785: Even if my legs were broken...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nycprodigy View Post

    So there are awakened Zoans(waiting for Chopper to Zerk out again)
    Actually, I am fairly certain Chopper has always been "awakened."

    Here is my reasoning (TL;DR at bottom):

    Awakened Zoans, as we see from Impel Down and from the wiki, are zoans who's default mode/personality more closely matches their fruit than their original species. So, a human that eats the cow cow fruit would be more like a human than a cow in her default mode - we have even see that most zoans' default mode is just a regular human. But, an awakened cow cow fruit user would have a default mode appearing more similar to a cow, and would have a personality more closely related to a cow - they might be kinda dumb, prone to be scared, like foods that resemble grasses, etc.

    The awakened zoans at impel down were somewhat like this - I'm not sure if they ever even used human language, and they were somewhat savage, like animals, rather than humans who ate zoan fruits.

    So, I am working on the assumption that awakened zoans have a default form and personality more closely resembling their fruit's animal than their original species.


    Chopper is exactly like that. You might expect awakened Chopper to be more reindeer like, because reindeer are "animals," but this isn't right; Remember his original species is a reindeer. He ate the person person (human human) fruit, and so as an awakened zoan he would more closely resemble a human than his original species (a reindeer).

    Awakened zoans resemble their fruit's animal more than they resemble their original species and Chopper does resemble a human more than he resembles a reindeer. He walks on two legs, he speaks human (demon guards at impel down, I believe, never spoke, because their animals do not speak), he has many human personality traits such as human emotions, liking to be complimented, he uses his hands like a human does, and most importantly, his personality and default form have the defining features of human beings: Human intelligence and empathy. He is, primarily, a doctor, not a deer. He wants to help others, and he does so by pursuing an intellectual endeavor: becoming a great doctor. (His intellect is also linked to his use of language). He is basically a person who has various deer/hybrid transformations.

    If Chopper were not awakened, his default mode would be a reindeer, he would have some personality traits of a human but they would not overpower his reindeer ones. Instead, the awakened status of Chopper alters this, so his default mode and personality are distinctively human rather than reindeer.

    Possible supplement: His transformations are based on his studies and originally on technology - rumbleballs. Technology and study are human characteristics, and these are defining characteristics of Chopper, not just little extras aside from his ordinary everyday going abouts as a reindeer; Chopper lives and develops as a human.

    Possible Objection: One Piece animals have rationality/intellect(/technology?).
    Response: True, some animals in One Piece are intelligent, rational, etc. I would say they are not these things to the extent of one piece humans. But even if they were, here is the rub: Humans have been traditionally distinguished from other animals (philosophically, biologically, sociologically, psychologically, sometimes metaphysically, etc.) by their intellect. Even if this is not as sharp a distinction from other animals as we might pretend it is - even if there is a sliding scale of these traits that allow for animals to be on the rubric as well - and even if this is entirely the wrong way to distinguish humans from non-human animals, this is in fact the traditional and pervasive way that human beings have defined themselves for at least thousands of years. Most importantly, this is how humans think of themselves when distinguishing themselves from animals. Even if animals in one piece are all rational or intelligent or what have you, this conception of humanity would still very plausibly make its way into the One Piece definition of human beings, as very few other notions of humanity have ever been entertained during our species' existence.


    TL;DR: I firmly believe that Chopper is an awakened zoan because his default form and personality more closely resemble a human being than a reindeer, and all we know about awakened zoans thus far is that their default mode and personality more closely resemble their fruit's animal than their original species.

  20. #640

    Default Re: Chapter 785: Even if my legs were broken...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sereques View Post
    Zoro also threw a building pre-timeskip. That signifies nothing.
    It signifies that preskip he was strong enough to leap into the air with hotels and throw them with relative ease.

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