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Thread: Random News Article Discussion II

  1. #15921

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilitch View Post
    Basic psychology I guess. I'm just brave you know. It's not because some nerds cringe that it means anything

    Set Art by Daily Rowlet

  2. #15922

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    So, what's with Rocket Man acting all civilized and mature?

  3. #15923

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    He got his nukes and now he has the leverage to end the sanctions and open the country up economically.

  4. #15924

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiolino View Post
    He got his nukes and now he has the leverage to end the sanctions and open the country up economically.
    Wait what? Where did you get that information?

    From everything I've heard, it's the exact opposite of that.

    Their nuclear program catastrophically failed recently and everyone knows it, so they know their biggest show of strength and threat just evaporated, so they're basically forced to come to the table and offer Peace.

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  5. #15925

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    The test site falling apart due to successful detonations of small hydrogen bombs is not even close to a "catastrophic failure" of their nuclear weapons program. If anything, they've shown that they are capable of building small (relative to huge powers like Russia and the US) warheads, as well as powerful and effective missile systems for carrying them (albeit not that accurately).

    They are certainly not a world-ending nuclear threat like the US, Russia, or maybe China, but they have shown the capability to build and deploy systems that could certainly level small cities.

    Once again, the truly disturbing thing is that they developed this capability from almost nothing over just a few years. I don't think anyone is really sure just how they did it, but all signs seem to point to them getting help (both expertise and technology) from other countries, perhaps Russia and/or China.

  6. #15926

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Well, I can't imagine the entire test site falling apart was planned or welcome, and plus the fact that this test going the way that it did is causing China to have concerns that there is going to be fallout coming their way can't really be seen as a "Success" can it?

    I mean, China is their closest ally. Possibly hitting them with a wave of nuclear fallout is... a success?

    This doesn't look like "Strong North Korea has working bombs now!" This looks like "Dumb North Korea blew their own site up and might have irradiated their ally".


    Coming to the table now and going "Actually, maybe we should shut down the Nuclear program" looks more like them trying to save face after that to me.

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  7. #15927

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Rin is right, there's nothing success about that.

    Moreover China is less ally than irritated boss. NK has been bucking China for awhile now, but recent signs are that this might be changing back to NK being more vassal.
    Right before all this current stuff Kim went to a special meeting with Xi.
    The newly dictatorial Xi.
    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order...nd-xi-jinping/

  8. #15928

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Not arguing that the collapsed site isn't a fuck up. Simply stating the facts - North Korea has proven that they can make nuclear warheads, probably hydrogen bombs. They've also proven that they can make reliable missiles that can carry payloads with the mass of a small warhead thousands of miles without falling apart.

    This is nothing close to a "catastrophic failure". Losing the site and angering China in the process is definitely a setback, but it doesn't offset their undeniably frightening progress over the last few years.

    Also... nuclear bomb test sites are supposed to be blown up. It doesn't look as stupid as you're trying to imply, Rin.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    The fact that North Korea is being taken seriously as a nuclear threat by the US now, as opposed to several years ago, means that their weapons program has had far more successes than failures.

  9. #15929

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGreenBlue View Post
    Not arguing that the collapsed site isn't a fuck up. Simply stating the facts -North Korea has proven that they can make nuclear warheads, probably hydrogen bombs. They've also proven that they can make reliable missiles that can carry payloads with the mass of a small warhead thousands of miles without falling apart.
    And all of this was old news, having nothing to do with recent events. You're speaking like the disaster proved ... something actually good for NK. And then cite stuff from a year ago or more.
    In fact why are you even discussing those things.

    This is nothing close to a "catastrophic failure". Losing the site and angering China in the process is definitely a setback, but it doesn't offset their undeniably frightening progress over the last few years.
    Falling back into subservience with China is a catastrophic failure when part of your goals was avoiding that.
    And gee, I wonder what sort of things about NK China was most uncomfortable about? It might be the nuclear program.

    Also... nuclear bomb test sites are supposed to be blown up. It doesn't look as stupid as you're trying to imply, Rin.
    Are you being extremely dense on purpose? You've clearly chosen to not read the article, and then make the most ridiculous assumption possible about the content based on Rin's quick summary.
    "Oh well by a test site being wrecked they OBVIOUSLY must be talking about a successful test on an abandoned quarry!".

    The fact that North Korea is being taken seriously as a nuclear threat by the US now, as opposed to several years ago, means that their weapons program has had far more successes than failures.
    North Korea has been taken seriously as some sort of nuclear threat for decades. Confirmation about technologies is all that has happened, before that speculation was high that they had them in some capacity.

  10. #15930

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Frankly, Monkey King, as I understand it, you're some sort of history nerd and school teacher. That means you are a layman on this subject. If you think that the US military's stance on North Korea as a nuclear threat is the same now as it has been for decades, then you are sorely mistaken.

    Yeah, North Korea probably didn't plan on the site collapsing and releasing lots of radioactive dust and ash, but they probably didn't plan for it not to happen, either. They simply didn't care about the fallout, no pun intended, as long as it didn't irreparably damage their own land.

    So the site collapsed, so China is finally putting real pressure on them to chill out with the testing. So what?

    They've not only proven their technologies, they've rapidly developed them and are now a legitimate threat. That is and always has been my point.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Bottom line is that the true efficacy of their delivery systems is definitely not old news. Not from "a year ago or more."

    I'm discussing this because Rin came in to say that their nuclear weapons program has ended in catastrophic failure. Considering that China is now putting pressure on them to be more subservient, you might think that is true. But, frankly, I know that it is actually quite the opposite. Thus, I chimed in with my two cents.
    Last edited by RedGreenBlue; May 3rd, 2018 at 02:05 PM.

  11. #15931

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGreenBlue View Post
    Frankly, Monkey King, as I understand it, you're some sort of history nerd and school teacher. That means you are a layman on this subject. If you think that the US military's stance on North Korea as a nuclear threat is the same now as it has been for decades, then you are sorely mistaken.
    That was supposed to say decade, basically since the Bush II administration there has been major paranoia regarding their nuclear capabilities and how far along it was.

    Yeah, North Korea probably didn't plan on the site collapsing and releasing lots of radioactive dust and ash, but they probably didn't plan for it not to happen, either. They simply didn't care about the fallout, no pun intended, as long as it didn't irreparably damage their own land.
    I'm not sure you understand what fallout is.
    Also when you're a tiny country you don't quite get to shrug off such things, especially when you have an enormous neighbor constantly fretting about controlling your excess.

    So the site collapsed, so China is finally putting real pressure on them to chill out with the testing. So what?
    I'm getting the feeling that your main goal here is to argue your point until the end, and you aren't particularly interested in what shape it's in by that point.

    They've not only proven their technologies, they've rapidly developed them and are now a legitimate threat. That is and always has been my point.
    So you don't think that coming under greater Chinese control involves their nuclear program at all, you think China, a nuclear armed nation, is totes fine with them freely doing what they want with nukes.
    I'm not even sure what you think the general endgame for NK is. It involves a lot of feudal style status quo, and having China cut in more and more is as much a threat to their (read: the elites) way of life as the liberal democracy in the South.

    Bottom line is that the true efficacy of their delivery systems is definitely not old news. Not from "a year ago or more."
    The problem with all of this on your part is assuming no one cared precisely until the exact capability was shown. Which is total nonsense.

    I'm discussing this because Rin came in to say that their nuclear weapons program has ended in catastrophic failure. Considering that China is now putting pressure on them to be more subservient, you might think that is true. But, frankly, I know that it is actually quite the opposite. Thus, I chimed in with my two cents.
    And you're saying what here? You "know" it is the opposite because "now" people are scared of them, and this has achieved ____.

  12. #15932

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    I'm saying that I know things that you don't, Monkey King. I know what fallout is, certainly much better than you do, hence the little pun comment when I was using the more colloquial meaning of the word. And I know that NK's nuclear threat even 5 years ago was not taken even 5% as seriously as it is now. Now meaning extremely recently.

    Even accounting for politics with China, the biggest reason why the leadership was so aggressively pursuing this program in the last few years was so that the US would take it seriously. If you think that success doesn't outweigh the misstep with China, then we have to agree to disagree.

  13. #15933

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    You don't seem to convey the knowledge you hold on the subject very well though. Would be more informative for us who are not in the know if you were to elaborated a little more on the why's instead of just saying trust me i know more than you do.

  14. #15934

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    You're right, but unfortunately that's all I can say, wolfwood. Monkey King is simply wrong about the US always having legitimate concerns about the NK nuclear weapons program over the last decade. While they've had considerable experience in making bombs and showing them off, almost all of their missile testing has, until very recently, only proven that they were imbiciles who simply didn't have the requisite technology/experience.

    Something changed quite recently, and now they are being taken seriously. Period.

  15. #15935

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGreenBlue View Post
    I'm saying that I know things that you don't, Monkey King. I know what fallout is, certainly much better than you do, hence the little pun comment when I was using the more colloquial meaning of the word. And I know that NK's nuclear threat even 5 years ago was not taken even 5% as seriously as it is now. Now meaning extremely recently.
    But you're being adorably coy about what any of this means and what you "know", and I'm going to have to call into question the idea that some high level pentagon official (or whatever you are trying to put across here lol) is breaking or flirting with breaking a million security clearance rules for a rubber pirate comic news thread.
    Also it would sure be real weird for such a person to not actually know what sort of accidents they had recently, and just assume some rocks got blown up.

    Also you're still really all sorts of confused about the difference between taking them as a literal capable threat, and regarding them with extreme caution precisely because of how much is always unknown about what goes on there. This is the main constant of NK, the unknown. People weren't lackadaisical with them because we didn't see exact proof of exact capabilities.

    Even accounting for politics with China, the biggest reason why the leadership was so aggressively pursuing this program in the last few years was so that the US would take it seriously.
    Yes, North Korea, the country the US has retained a constant contingent of armed forces against since the 1950's, is very concerned about the US finally taking them seriously.
    So that they could _____.

  16. #15936

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGreenBlue View Post
    Frankly, Monkey King, as I understand it, you're some sort of history nerd and school teacher. That means you are a layman on this subject.
    Quote Originally Posted by RedGreenBlue View Post
    I'm saying that I know things that you don't, Monkey King.
    You have implied and now stated that you apparently know something that we don't... but aren't telling us exactly what those things are or where you got that information.

    This is a pretty huge thread so forgive me if I missed the part where you said "I am a general at the pentagon who helps devise the strategy on North Korea" or something but frankly, right now I don't know what these apparent credentials are, so you throwing your weight around about how you "Know things that [we] don't" isn't exactly dazzling me here.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedGreenBlue View Post
    You're right, but unfortunately that's all I can say, wolfwood. Monkey King is simply wrong about the US always having legitimate concerns about the NK nuclear weapons program over the last decade. While they've had considerable experience in making bombs and showing them off, almost all of their missile testing has, until very recently, only proven that they were imbiciles who simply didn't have the requisite technology/experience.

    Something changed quite recently, and now they are being taken seriously. Period.
    Ha... ok wow.

    I really don't mean any disrespect, really I don't but... seriously?...

    You're a person who is now implying that you are privy to some kind of classified information that you are not allowed to share... and you're implying that here on a forum dedicated to an Anime/Manga series?...

    Sorry, this may just be a "Lay" person talking but this doesn't exactly make you look good and reliable.

    Either A: You are making this up. You have the same basic knowledge the rest of us do, and you're trying to pretend you know something we don't to win an argument on an anime forum.

    or B: You ARE a government official with some kind of high-enough security clearance to be privy to information the general public is not allowed to know, and rather than keep that apparently sensitive information to yourself, you're pulling rank and revealing you know something classified... to win an argument on an anime forum.


    Neither exactly looks good to me, but I also don't know which one accurately represents you because that's apparently classified information we aren't allowed to know.

    I mean seriously.


    Guys, I know things you aren't allowed to know. I can't say how or why I know these things, but I do. You can tottally trust me.

    Kim Jong Un is dead and has been for a little bit now.

    The guy who has been on the news the past couple of weeks is a double. Other high-ranking NK officials are panicking because the double is going off-script and is the one trying to broker peace and unfortunately he did so publicly so they kinda have to roll with it now.

    I can't tell you guys how I know this, but just trust me.

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  17. #15937

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Think what you will, Monkey King. I'm not breaking any rules by saying what I've said, as it's all public knowledge. Protecting an ally is a lot different from protecting yourself, no matter how loyal you proclaim to be.

    Until recently, we knew that they had negligible chances of actually harming US soil. That is no longer the case.

    Besides all of that, there is plenty of reason for NK to want China to be more involved on the peninsula. It's clear that they were very surprised when China didn't fully support them during last year's escalating tensions. Even if bowing to their might is not the most becoming stance for the NK leadership, it at least puts them on better terms when it comes to a potential conflict with the US.

    Anyway, I've said my piece. Take it or leave it, I don't really care much either way.

  18. #15938

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Ok, now back to "Citing actual sources for your information"

    North Korea is so strong now guys! They have a working bomb! They blew up their own facility to demonstrate that and scare us! Now they really have the ability to scare America by.... saying they're finally willing to shut down their nuclear program wholesale and... China is backing this up.......

    I guess real power is telling your enemies you're willing to give your power up?....

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  19. #15939

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Rin, I don't mean to be disrespectful, but do you not understand that you are literally proving my point? Because that's what it seems like.

    Why would NK decide to leverage their nuclear weapons program as a bargaining chip now of all times? Perhaps because it finally, actually works? I rest my case.
    Last edited by RedGreenBlue; May 3rd, 2018 at 04:00 PM.

  20. #15940

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Kim Jong-Un cares so much about environment that he only makes underground tests
    Every nation gets the government it deserves.---- Joseph de Maistre

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