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Thread: Random News Article Discussion II

  1. #15421

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    Putin, I know you are a viper but even snakes have standards.

  2. #15422

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparsebeard View Post
    Probably all justified by Orthodox chistian doctrine
    No .

    (which is controlled by the state)
    Yes .

  3. #15423
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    No
    If not a religious thing, why would the russian gov. take such a backward stance on domestic violence (for exemple decriminalising it)? The patriarch strongly insist on the importance of "conservative" family values after all, which is pretty much encouragement for such backwards legislation.

    I mean, even the patriarch of russia said that "Orthodoxy must defend itself" and fight against the "heresy" of human rights, which "contradicted the Bible".

  4. #15424

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    See, the problem here is that you're reading Russian Orthodox as Russian Orthodox.

    A more accurate reading these days is RUSSIAN Orthodox.
    Complicating things since 2009.

  5. #15425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    See, the problem here is that you're reading Russian Orthodox as Russian Orthodox.

    A more accurate reading these days is RUSSIAN Orthodox.
    The point is, the church and the state ARE pretty much the same thing in Russia (and perhaps orthodox states in general) unless I'm mistaken. Hand in hand, to screw the people...

    The church supports the state and the state supports the church. I think church officials are even EMPLOYED by the state.

    So I don't see what is the distinction you seem to make between "russian" and "orthodox" since they are one and the same...

  6. #15426

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    I wish there was actual Russians on this forum

    Actually, I don't even know if OnePiece is famous in Russia

  7. #15427

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    We do have a Russian on this board.

  8. #15428

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparsebeard View Post
    If not a religious thing, why would the russian gov. take such a backward stance on domestic violence (for exemple decriminalising it)? The patriarch strongly insist on the importance of "conservative" family values after all, which is pretty much encouragement for such backwards legislation.

    I mean, even the patriarch of russia said that "Orthodoxy must defend itself" and fight against the "heresy" of human rights, which "contradicted the Bible".
    Which naturally means it is totes in the special Orthodox bible that domestic violence is awesome.

    I also think you don't understand Orthodox Christianity organizationally at all and are just imprinting Catholicism over it, and also might think Russian Orthodoxy is a sect of its own or something.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparsebeard View Post
    The point is, the church and the state ARE pretty much the same thing in Russia (and perhaps orthodox states in general) unless I'm mistaken. Hand in hand, to screw the people...

    The church supports the state and the state supports the church. I think church officials are even EMPLOYED by the state.

    So I don't see what is the distinction you seem to make between "russian" and "orthodox" since they are one and the same...
    Orthodox churches have never wielded the same sort of power the Catholic Church historically had, they have a long history of subservience to whatever state they're in. Not a coequal relationship, let alone power over the state.
    It is a far far far more decentralized entity, and always has been. Broken up in smaller pieces by nation it never had some huge international clout that Rome did.

    Putin gets the church to do what he wants, and the sort of people advancing in its ranks that he prefers. Just like the Tsars and Communists before him.
    And yeah, earth to Sparsebeard, authoritarian conservatism loves authoritarian conservative religious leaders.

    Edit: And I'm just assuming you're aware that Eastern Orthodoxy is explicitly not = Russian Orthodoxy, and are getting tangled up in your own semantics.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilitch View Post
    I wish there was actual Russians on this forum

    Actually, I don't even know if OnePiece is famous in Russia
    We definitely have other Eastern Orthodox people. Because y'know, Russia doesn't own Eastern Orthodoxy.

  9. #15429

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    Is this directed to me ? Or to Sparesbeard ?

    What I meant was : I wish someone from/living in Putin's country would sometimes post on this thread (or the other one) about issues involving Putin.
    Last edited by Nilitch; December 21st, 2017 at 06:11 AM.

  10. #15430
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Which naturally means it is totes in the special Orthodox bible that domestic violence is awesome.
    And I'm sure there are no quotes at all in the bible emphatising the sanctity of mariage (impling you don't break it over any triffle other than death) and the right (nay, duty) of a man to "correct" his wife when she "errs"...

    EDIT : There probably are quotes to the contrary too, I admit. I don't want a theological discussion since I barely know enough about religion to dismiss it as a way of thinking...

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    I also think you don't understand Orthodox Christianity organizationally at all and are just imprinting Catholicism over it, and also might think Russian Orthodoxy is a sect of its own or something.
    How can you say that russian orthodoxy (like other versions of orthodoxy in other countries ex: georgia) is not a sect of it's own when the next thing you say is :

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Orthodox churches have never wielded the same sort of power the Catholic Church historically had, they have a long history of subservience to whatever state they're in.
    Which basicly means that each country has it's own version of the religion according to what the gov. dictates the clergy to say?

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Not a coequal relationship, let alone power over the state.
    It is a far far far more decentralized entity, and always has been. Broken up in smaller pieces by nation it never had some huge international clout that Rome did.
    Hasn't this been what I was saying all alone???

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Putin gets the church to do what he wants, and the sort of people advancing in its ranks that he prefers. Just like the Tsars and Communists before him.
    And yeah, earth to Sparsebeard, authoritarian conservatism loves authoritarian conservative religious leaders.

    Edit: And I'm just assuming you're aware that Eastern Orthodoxy is explicitly not = Russian Orthodoxy, and are getting tangled up in your own semantics.
    Perhaps I expressed myself wrongly, because of course I was speaking of orthodoxy in the russian context. Since Each "orthodoxy" is pretty much what the local gov. decides it is.

    Unless you thought that I meant that the Russian patriarch has a say over other countries "orthodoxies" which is nonsensical if you make any effort to understand the meaning of my previous posts... Sure perhaps parts of the post where perhaps a bit confusing but if you read them as a whole I think it's clear I was talkig about russian orthodoxy.
    Last edited by Sparsebeard; December 21st, 2017 at 06:26 AM.

  11. #15431

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparsebeard View Post
    And I'm sure there are no quotes at all in the bible emphatising the sanctity of mariage (impling you don't break it over any triffle other than death)
    Another fun fact about Orthodox Christianity that you are papering over with a Catholic frame of reference, is they don't give all that much of a crap about divorce.

    How can you say that russian orthodoxy (like other versions of orthodoxy in other countries ex: georgia) is not a sect of it's own when the next thing you say is :
    Because they're not. Patriarchs are like much much more powerful bishops in a sense. They have their jurisdiction and flock, but they're part of something larger than that at the same time.
    The Eastern Orthodox church is not a category of churches, it is one church. Just much much less centralized than the Catholic church.
    All Eastern Orthodox churches are in communion with one another, with Constantinople/Istanbul as the mutually recognized center.
    Basically this.


    the next thing you say is :

    Orthodox churches have never wielded the same sort of power the Catholic Church historically had, they have a long history of subservience to whatever state they're in.

    Which basicly means that each country has it's own version of the religion according to what the gov. dictates the clergy to say?
    1. I am talking historically, in most modern Orthodox countries the governments aren't doing that sort of thing. Because most of those governments are no longer authoritarian.
    In the cases of Russia (and Belarus) obviously we have a different story.

    2. But the main difference is you were making some sort of bizarre simultaneous theological attack on the Eastern Orthodox church while also rightly attacking the agenda of those in charge secular wise and individually. As if the state of the Russian Orthodox church at current is some sort of inherent all time sin it bears. Really the confusion arises from your confused original premise. Because you weren't separating them.

    Unless you thought that I meant that the Russian patriarch has a say over other countries "orthodoxies" which is nonsensical if you make any effort to understand the meaning of my previous posts... Sure perhaps parts of the post where perhaps a bit confusing but if you read them as a whole I think it's clear I was talkig about russian orthodoxy.
    The problem and maybe the miscommunication is that instead of attacking the crusted over conservative assholes in charge of the Russian Orthodox church, secular and otherwise, it sounded like you were plain out attacking the church period.
    Which let's be honest you have a history of doing.

    I mean I get that you're a hardcore Euro style secularist, but the legacy that has from Catholic history just doesn't apply so well here.
    The church is just another bludgeon and puppet of nasty states whose agendas are the usual authoritarian shit. Not the nasty authoritarian club itself as in old school Catholicism.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilitch View Post
    Is this directed to me ? Or to Sparesbeard ?

    What I meant was : I wish someone from/living in Putin's country would sometimes post on this thread (or the other one) about issues involving Putin.
    I do and I don't. Because it is a crapshoot.
    We might get a Russian who is sober to it all, or one who fully buys into the Putin cult of personality.
    The best thing we have is an ethnic Russian from Lithuania, who has his obvious cares and sympathies to the motherland, while not being plugged into crazytown itself. Silverblade.

  12. #15432
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Another fun fact about Orthodox Christianity that you are papering over with a Catholic frame of reference, is they don't give all that much of a crap about divorce.

    Because they're not. Patriarchs are like much much more powerful bishops in a sense. They have their jurisdiction and flock, but they're part of something larger than that at the same time.
    The Eastern Orthodox church is not a category of churches, it is one church. Just much much less centralized than the Catholic church.
    All Eastern Orthodox churches are in communion with one another, with Constantinople/Istanbul as the mutually recognized center.
    Basically this.

    1. I am talking historically, in most modern Orthodox countries the governments aren't doing that sort of thing. Because most of those governments are no longer authoritarian.
    In the cases of Russia (and Belarus) obviously we have a different story.

    2. But the main difference is you were making some sort of bizarre simultaneous theological attack on the Eastern Orthodox church while also rightly attacking the agenda of those in charge secular wise and individually. As if the state of the Russian Orthodox church at current is some sort of inherent all time sin it bears. Really the confusion arises from your confused original premise. Because you weren't separating them.

    The problem and maybe the miscommunication is that instead of attacking the crusted over conservative assholes in charge of the Russian Orthodox church, secular and otherwise, it sounded like you were plain out attacking the church period.
    Which let's be honest you have a history of doing.

    I mean I get that you're a hardcore Euro style secularist, but the legacy that has from Catholic history just doesn't apply so well here.
    The church is just another bludgeon and puppet of nasty states whose agendas are the usual authoritarian shit. Not the nasty authoritarian club itself as in old school Catholicism.
    Interesting stuff about the orthodoxy, the graph was particularly informative. I also kind of see the distinction you make between modern "independent churches" and sects ( while I'm not versed enough in theology to neccessarly fully see the difference between the concepts)...

    And if you put my post in the context of other of my past posts I kind of get why you could have construded my post as an attack on the religion as a whole (while I was talking about the russian church on which your opinion doesn't seem to be very positive either).

    As a whole, yeah, I think religion is nocive. But that doesn't mean I don't believe in freedom of thought. Only that I believe that religion should be criticized... strongly. Because else, things will never change...

  13. #15433

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  14. #15434
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nilitch View Post
    The comments on this are hillarious though...


    In other new, catalonian separatists set for a win despite many of their leaders either emprisoned or in exile...

    http://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-42445868

  15. #15435

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    Sounds like a good excuse for why you shouldn't go punching Nazi's huh?

    https://www.rawstory.com/2017/12/vir...te-a-neo-nazi/
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  16. #15436
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    This is really interesting.

    What Music Do Americans Love the Most? 50 Detailed Fan Maps

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ndom-maps.html

    Edit: oh, it’s from August. But still an interesting discussion topic.
    Last edited by Femme; December 26th, 2017 at 12:30 AM.
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  17. #15437

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Femme View Post
    This is really interesting.

    What Music Do Americans Love the Most? 50 Detailed Fan Maps

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ndom-maps.html

    Edit: oh, it’s from August. But still an interesting discussion topic.
    FloridaGeorgiaLine almost perfectly negatively creates BosNyWash from thin air on their map lol.

  18. #15438

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    I wish there were such maps for movies, authors, philosophers, and so on-- so that I could choose the perfect place to live in.

  19. #15439

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    Welp apparently the Gävle goat arsonists did not strike this year.

    I feel oddly let down by this. This is the first christmas since like 2013 they didn't set it on fire.

  20. #15440
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Welp apparently the Gävle goat arsonists did not strike this year.

    I feel oddly let down by this. This is the first christmas since like 2013 they didn't set it on fire.
    Outrageous! Simply outrageous!

    Holdo is best and everything about Holdo is best.

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