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Thread: Random News Article Discussion II

  1. #15321

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by AfroSamurai View Post
    Also, why tf are we rehashing the ban discussion again? We all agreed it was stupid. And discussing islam's morality doesn't change that.
    Actually, both you and I had agreed that banning the full veil was the thing to do

  2. #15322

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparsebeard View Post
    Still, how would you feel if most immigrants to Italy decided not to learn italian?
    A much closer analogy would be "how would you feel if most visitors to Vatican City refused to communicate in Latin?" That's about how dumb this argument is.

  3. #15323
    Karaage-san, Aishiteru! AfroSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Still, how would you feel if most immigrants to Italy decided not to learn italian?
    That's... that's not the same as Catalonia or Wales. Do you... do you not see what the issue with these two regions you've singled out is.. (hint hint they speak their COUNTRY's language and their original language is barely taught as a second language)

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilitch View Post
    Actually, both you and I had agreed that banning the full veil was the thing to do
    Oh yeah, I think I changed my mind once I realised it affected literally 80-100 people at which point I stopped caring, because it has negligible effects on the true problem of young women being forced into wearing religious clothes by their families and not getting the chance to exercise their free will.

  4. #15324
    Discovered Stew Femme's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparsebeard View Post
    It's not about YOUR religion, it's about ALL religions.

    And yes I do believe that some rights (equality of men/women, LGBT rights, equality of humans whatever the color of the skin) are the right of free religion, but that's not even the point.

    I'm not saying that the LAW to force people to wear some clothes is right. Just that the practice itself is sexist.

    I'm just criticising what I percieve as a sexist practice, one amongst MANY other, I just made that particular point because you opened the discussion on it. Are you saying that religions are NOT sexist, discriminatory, etc.?

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---



    Still, how would you feel if most immigrants to Italy decided not to learn italian?



    I don't support the ban, doesn't mean I have to think religions aren't dangerous, all of them.
    So you’re taking my point about Quebec’s backward religious law that was created to “preserve Quebec” and using it as an opportunity to discuss your own religious opinions. Okay.

    Anyhow, your stances on language are almost delusional. I actually just got home from a 15-country trip all over the world and spoke English freely and received English service in every single country. Including France. It is absolutely normal to make tourist destinations English-Friendly, and forcing Montreal to stop is idiotic.
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  5. #15325
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by AfroSamurai View Post
    She just told you your opinion or religion is irrelevant. Yet you continue to yap on about it. Go do that on the theist discussion thread or something. Hell, make one and watch it get taken down if you want. Just stay on topic.

    I'm saying this as someone whose... totally anti-islam and I've made that clear on the forum many times but... all these points you've made are really completely irrelevant to the discussion. Even *if* you're right about islam being sexist, discriminatory, etc, what the hell is your point?
    Frankly, I find the way you single out islam amongst all religions to be offensive.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Femme View Post
    So you’re taking my point about Quebec’s backward religious law that was created to “preserve Quebec” and using it as an opportunity to discuss your own religious opinions. Okay.

    Anyhow, your stances on language are almost delusional. I actually just got home from a 15-country trip all over the world and spoke English freely and received English service in every single country. Including France. It is absolutely normal to make tourist destinations English-Friendly, and forcing Montreal to stop is idiotic.
    Go to montreal or quebec and speak english and you'll recieve as good service as in any of those other countries you went to.

    The only reason I talk about what I think about religion is because you are trying to equate two totally different issues.

  6. #15326
    Karaage-san, Aishiteru! AfroSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparsebeard View Post
    Frankly, I find the way you single out islam amongst all religions to be offensive.
    I don't care

    Sue me for disliking one ideology more than I dislike another. I mean i dislike them all to varying degrees, it just so happens that Islam is the *most disliked*. Orthodox judaism is a close second (excluding the lesser known religions, I'm sure there are plenty that are worse than the abrahamic ones).

    I wouldn't say that translates to a dislike for the average muslim, christian, jew, though...

    I will say it *might* translate to greater dislike for extremist muslims than extremist christians... but then again that's only because Islam is more coherent. It's fairly evident what extremist Islamists believe by just reading the Quran with none of the context and taking any statement it makes extremely literally. Christianity on the other hand is so incoherent that an extremist can end up as a franciscan priest, a crusader, or the inquisition, all while having a fairly good claim to being 'in the right' about their ideology based on the bible... because the bible is a mishmash of poorly devised incoherent texts, which constantly retcon one another the further you read... and it drives me nuts that people can actually believe in it.
    Last edited by AfroSamurai; December 1st, 2017 at 04:33 PM.

  7. #15327
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparsebeard View Post
    Go to montreal or quebec and speak english and you'll recieve as good service as in any of those other countries you went to.
    I’ve been. Several times.
    What I’m trying to say is that other countries haven’t been encouraged by their politicians on what an acceptable way to greet visitors are. The rest of the world just lets business owners be courteous in whichever way they please.

    When I was in Belgium the train station service agent finished speaking Dutch with the person ahead of me, then saw that I was probably not from Belgium and said “Hello”. It didn’t diminish my admiration for their culture one bit. It actually stood out to me as one of the friendliest interactions I had during our Europe stops.

    But if you don’t get it by now I’ll probably just give this a rest.

    The only reason I talk about what I think about religion is because you are trying to equate two totally different issues.
    They’re not equal issues, but they’re not unrelated. But yeah, whatever floats your boat I guess.
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  8. #15328
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Femme View Post
    I’ve been. Several times.
    What I’m trying to say is that other countries haven’t been encouraged by their politicians on what an acceptable way to greet visitors are. The rest of the world just lets business owners be courteous in whichever way they please.

    When I was in Belgium the train station service agent finished speaking Dutch with the person ahead of me, then saw that I was probably not from Belgium and said “Hello”. It didn’t diminish my admiration for their culture one bit. It actually stood out to me as one of the friendliest interactions I had during our Europe stops.

    But if you don’t get it by now I’ll probably just give this a rest.

    They’re not equal issues, but they’re not unrelated. But yeah, whatever floats your boat I guess.
    One issue is GLOBAL, islamophobia, and frankly, Quebec is, perhaps, less islamophobic than other places (for exemple the USA) but there is a minority of crazy fuckers everywhere it seems and sometime the majority follows the argument if it's made in a way that touches local sensibilities ( for exemple, the whole face-ban thing which was made to be into a women's rights thing) doesn't mean quebequers hate muslim more then ontarians, americans, frenchs, autrians... I AGREE that muslim suffer from more discrimination then other groups, but it's NOT a Quebec thing (the face-ban thing wasn't even about face bans at first, it was about ALL religious signs but that is just a symptom).

    I repeat, islamophobia is a global issue face covering ban is a local symptom as is minaret ban in Swiss alps or similar face covering bans in france or the muslim travel ban in USA.

    The other issue language, is a LOCAL Canada/Quebec phenomenon. Just because a part of the WORLD is hostile to muslims doesn't justifies your snide attacks about french canadians basicly asking for a bit of respect from businesses (exagerated or not).

  9. #15329
    Discovered Stew Femme's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparsebeard View Post
    One issue is GLOBAL, islamophobia, and frankly, Quebec is, perhaps, less islamophobic than other places (for exemple the USA) but there is a minority of crazy fuckers everywhere it seems and sometime the majority follows the argument if it's made in a way that touches local sensibilities ( for exemple, the whole face-ban thing which was made to be into a women's rights thing) doesn't mean quebequers hate muslim more then ontarians, americans, frenchs, autrians... I AGREE that muslim suffer from more discrimination then other groups, but it's NOT a Quebec thing (the face-ban thing wasn't even about face bans at first, it was about ALL religious signs but that is just a symptom).

    I repeat, islamophobia is a global issue face covering ban is a local symptom as is minaret ban in Swiss alps or similar face covering bans in france or the muslim travel ban in USA.

    The other issue language, is a LOCAL Canada/Quebec phenomenon. Just because a part of the WORLD is hostile to muslims doesn't justifies your snide attacks about french canadians basicly asking for a bit of respect from businesses (exagerated or not).
    I didn't bring up islamophobia. You did.

    I brought up the face-cover ban in relation to Quebec's efforts to preserve their culture.
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  10. #15330
    Karaage-san, Aishiteru! AfroSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparsebeard View Post
    The other issue language, is a LOCAL Canada/Quebec phenomenon. Just because a part of the WORLD is hostile to muslims doesn't justifies your snide attacks about french canadians basicly asking for a bit of respect from businesses (exagerated or not).
    This feels like a somewhat dishonest portrayal of the discussion -_-

  11. #15331
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Femme View Post
    I didn't bring up islamophobia. You did.

    I brought up the face-cover ban in relation to Quebec's efforts to preserve their culture.
    It's because I do agree with you that a big part of the argument behind it ARE islamophobic, whatever supporters say.

    And while I don't like religion as a matter of principle. I also believe that people are free to live their lives as they want as long as the don't impede on other's freedom to also do so.

    The problem is that sometimes it's not so simple. For exemple, should the rights of russians in crimea supersede the rights of Tatars simply because there are more of them? Should the the russian minority in Estonia be protected despite the fact that it's a result of the evils of USSR. Should the Canadian gov be allowed to change ancient treaties with indigenous people because they are now a minority.

    While Quebec's french canadians are not oppressed any more, there is still a huge pressure from living in English speaking Canada/North America. Toeing the line is not as easy as it may sound from the outside.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by AfroSamurai View Post
    This feels like a somewhat dishonest portrayal of the discussion -_-
    The motion basicly said please can you say "bonjour" instead of "bonjour/hi".

    It hard to do less intrusive...

  12. #15332
    21st Century Schizoid Man Johnny B. Decent's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    I sincerely doubt I'll ever find myself in Quebec, but if I do, I'm definitely going to say Hi to everyone, just to piss them off, because of this.

  13. #15333

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Are you going to open a shop before saying hie ?

  14. #15334
    21st Century Schizoid Man Johnny B. Decent's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilitch View Post
    Are you going to open a shop before saying hie ?
    Yes. I will open John's Good-Ass BBQ and Foot Massages.

  15. #15335

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparsebeard View Post
    I mean, even the veil IS profondly sexist in nature. After all, do men have to wear it? Of course not, it's a double standard and is only a small part of religion's efforts to create the differentiation of rights and responsabilities between men and women.
    Unless someone is forcing someone to wear one it really isn't any of your business what Femme and other Muslim women decide to do of their own accord.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparsebeard View Post
    The problem is that sometimes it's not so simple.
    Should the the russian minority in Estonia be protected despite the fact that it's a result of the evils of USSR.
    Well yeah that one's pretty simple actually.

    While Quebec's french canadians are not oppressed any more, there is still a huge pressure from living in English speaking Canada/North America. Toeing the line is not as easy as it may sound from the outside.
    It's the ultimate first world problem of nationalist struggles.

    The motion basicly said please can you say "bonjour" instead of "bonjour/hi".

    It hard to do less intrusive...
    How does respect enter into it?

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by S.C. Amigo View Post
    I sincerely doubt I'll ever find myself in Quebec, but if I do, I'm definitely going to say Hi to everyone, just to piss them off, because of this.
    I don't think they'd care if they realized you were American and not Anglophone Canadian.

  16. #15336

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    That comic where the Quebec ball gets devastated makes a lot more sense now.

  17. #15337

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quebec is the closest thing to Europe in the New World, in both the best and worst sense.

    On the one hand they're way more progressive than us Anglos generally speaking, and Quebec City is a gorgeous European looking place.

    On the other hand REMOVE TIM HORTONS, REMOVE TIM HORTONS, YOU ARE THE ANGLO STINK, ST LAWRENCE RIVER SACRED CLAY OF FRENCHMEN.

  18. #15338
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    -too much tension in this thread-

    -changes topic to something more light-hearted-

    Are Dogs Smarter Than Cats? Science Has an Answer:
    https://news.nationalgeographic.com/...nce-study-spd/

    Though it seems they need more research to be done about this topic:
    But she said there's little evidence to say larger brain size universally leads to higher intelligence.
    "We definitely need more research on this topic before we can definitively state how meaningful brain size is as a measure of intelligence across different animal groups," she said.
    Though the only part I question about dogs is that they have to be taught for the most part, while cats seem to do more things on their own. Anyways, what is everyone's thoughts about this? o:

  19. #15339

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    it's an intelligence/cleverness thing
    dogs can be taught way more things than cats and generally pretty good at learning stuff
    but cats are independent enough that they just sorta work stuff out on their own

    Set Art by Daily Rowlet

  20. #15340

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Cats are haughty and arrogant, dogs are wise and friendly. It is known

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