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Thread: Random News Article Discussion II

  1. #15061

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    *Fundamentalist muslims

  2. #15062

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nilitch View Post
    *Fundamentalist muslims
    Yeah, same thing.
    The crime here apparently being existing still.

  3. #15063
    Karaage-san, Aishiteru! AfroSamurai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Yeah, same thing.
    The crime here apparently being existing still.
    The crime being the attitudes and actions towards others that come with being a truly fundamentalist muslim. Like beating your daughter for losing her virginity, or forcing your wife to wear a whole body cover with just a slit for her eyes because other men seeing her skin 'hurts your pride', or murdering your sister for posting pictures of herself on instagram.

    You know, same way we might try to make symbols associated with the KKK illegal in countries that don't have a 1st amendment. To discourage anyone from such extreme ideologies. To encourage moderate thinking by only allowing moderate displays in the public eye.

  4. #15064

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    That thing itches me too, women's rights in predominantly islamic countries are shat everyday. A bit of securalism would help even tho our western governments haven't completly learnt how secularism works yet, but mostly it left religion and politics quite far away from each other.

  5. #15065

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    Interesting. At 3minutes 24

  6. #15066

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    Quote Originally Posted by AfroSamurai View Post
    The crime being the attitudes and actions towards others that come with being a truly fundamentalist muslim. Like beating your daughter for losing her virginity,
    Crime: Child Abuse
    or forcing your wife to wear a whole body cover with just a slit for her eyes because other men seeing her skin 'hurts your pride',
    Crime: Spousal Abuse

    or murdering your sister for posting pictures of herself on instagram.
    Crime: Murder (I feel silly even having to post this one).

    To discourage anyone from such extreme ideologies. To encourage moderate thinking by only allowing moderate displays in the public eye.
    This tactic has failed spectacularly or 2016 onward wouldn't be happening.

  7. #15067

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    • yes, let's all remember what happened to the earth in 2016.

  8. #15068
    Karaage-san, Aishiteru! AfroSamurai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Crime: Child Abuse
    Crime: Spousal Abuse
    Crime: Murder (I feel silly even having to post this one).
    This tactic has failed spectacularly or 2016 onward wouldn't be happening.
    Perhaps you misunderstood what I meant. Whether you believe the tactic is effective or not, the idea is to prevent these crimes by discouraging the surrounding fundamentalist culture that condones these crimes (as well as the public security element of needing to see people's faces in society).

    You say these are already crimes. That's true. But if what is illegal and what is culturally condemned don't match, then people will disregard the law.
    ie. So you may say murder, but in many fundamentalist Islamic cultures (as in Italian culture up to fairly recently) honour killings may be justified, beating your child might be allowed and seen as a parent's right to educate, and obeying your husband's will is the expectation, not 'Spousal abuse'.

    You might say 'no, preventing people from wearing a niqabs and burqas doesn't help prevent fundamentalism', but that's debatable. What's not debatable is that part of fundamentalist islam involves condoning these crimes.
    In my mind, banning burqas is a proportionate response to achieve the policy goal of discouraging the practicing of fundamentalist islamic beliefs, whether you agree or not.

  9. #15069

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    Quote Originally Posted by AfroSamurai View Post
    But if what is illegal and what is culturally condemned don't match, then people will disregard the law.
    So... banning burqas would achieve nothing because wearing them is clearly not culturally condemned by those who do so, and therefore they would just ignore any law to the contrary?

    Sorry, but I can't help but feel that you're shooting your own argument in the foot, here.

  10. #15070
    Karaage-san, Aishiteru! AfroSamurai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panda Bear View Post
    So... banning burqas would achieve nothing because wearing them is clearly not culturally condemned by those who do so, and therefore they would just ignore any law to the contrary?

    Sorry, but I can't help but feel that you're shooting your own argument in the foot, here.

    We’re talking about an environment where those who are aware don’t condemn the action, so it never gets reported.
    Not really the same as the Burqa ban. But you’re partially right, it probably won’t be strictly enforced in densely muslim areas, because nobody will bring it up as an issue. But in your average neighbourhood? The centre? At work in a populous area? It will work there, because it’s in the public eye, not happening in the privacy of a home or within a tightknit circle of friends.

  11. #15071

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nilitch View Post
    Quebec face-cover ban



    So-called feminists and social justice warriors are always making a fuss about letting muslims women cover their face because LIBERTY !!!
    The same kind of people who have never stepped out of their country in their lifetime and don't know that even in muslim countries there isn't much women covering their face. The only persons in Istanbul I've seen covering their face (like 5person at most) were Arabs --from the arabic peninsula-- shopping in the Istiklal avenue (the turkish Champs-Elysées).
    But for some reason insane liberals like to protect far-righty muslims...
    Ok, first off, the term "Social Justice Warrior" or "SJW" has gotten to the point where it's just a straight up attack word to denigrate any Vocal Progressive. I know people who use it will pop up and go "Buh, buh, only extremes count as SJWs!" but that's not how it gets used.

    I get called an "SJW" for correcting someone who calls me "Sir" these days. Nobody really uses it directed at "Extremes" anymore, it's almost always used to just mean "Any Vocal Progressive".

    You're the type who uses the term SJW, so I'm pretty sure you're now thinking I'm "Offended" or "Triggered" or I'm asking for a "Safe Space" but I'm not. I'm just telling you what the term you're using means to others and letting you know that if you're trying to have an actual dialog, using terms like that isn't the way to do it. It's just gonna make people tune out of your argument.

    If you just want to "trigger Libtard Cucks for topkek" then go nuts.



    As for what you're actually saying there. Still No.

    "for some reason liberals like to protect Far-Righty Muslims".

    As a self professed "liberal" gonna fix that for you:

    "For some reason, liberals like to protect freedom."


    Here's the thing. If you tell me a man has forced his wife or daughter to wear a Hijab against her wishes, I have a problem with that. If you tell me a woman has chosen to wear a Hijab herself, I find it hard to argue why that decision is wrong for her. I know why I would consider it wrong for me, but It's wrong of me to project my values onto anyone else.

    When "Feminism" gets brought up, a lot of people like to point to the discussion on Rape and be like "Well, if you're saying it should be fine for a woman to dress skimpy, then why are you fine with women covering everything?"

    ... Like it has to be one or the other. There can't be some women who want to dress more sexily or skimpy and some women who want to dress super modest. It's not like we're all individuals who have our own thoughts and feelings.


    One of my best friends is a girl from a very strict Muslim family who ran away at young age and does NOT follow the tenants of the faith and is on very shaky grounds with her family as a result... but she still defends the wearing of the Hijab for anyone who legitimately chooses to.

    I don't intend to speak for her, but I might just talk to her and have her weigh in on this. Post back with her response.
    Last edited by Demon Rin; October 23rd, 2017 at 02:12 PM.

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  12. #15072
    Someone call for Zeidoktor sgamer82's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Just to go along with the first part of Demonrin's post, SJW has, for me personally, become one of those phrases where, once I hear it used unironically, I find it that much more difficult to take the person who used it seriously.

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  13. #15073

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    wtf, why are you acting like it was my first post on this forum ?

    Also I've said Niqab/Burqa (edit: actually it seems I only said "covering their face" but it doesn't change a thing in the end), because this is what the article was about. I didn't say Hijab. Same goes for AfroSamurai, he's talking about the Hijab for some reason...

    Spoiler:





    And, I usually never use the expression SJW. But whatever, I guess everyone's happy now that we all learned the difference between Burqa and Hijab
    Last edited by Nilitch; October 23rd, 2017 at 03:02 PM.

  14. #15074

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    Feels like a very slippery slope to attempt to weed out what is or isn't done out ones own free will.

  15. #15075
    Karaage-san, Aishiteru! AfroSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilitch View Post
    wtf, why are you acting like it was my first post on this forum ?
    Same goes for AfroSamurai, he's talking about the Hijab for some reason...
    Ey, Ey, I never said a ban a should apply to Hijabs, I was merely using it for the purposes of my anectodal examples, in those examples where the family was putting undue pressure, it was a Hijab, not a Burqa or a Niqab. And if this situation can arise with a much less extreme form of cover, I'm almost certain that there are women who are forced to wear the more extreme covers than what they would if they had a choice.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon Rin View Post
    Here's the thing. If you tell me a man has forced his wife or daughter to wear a Hijab against her wishes, I have a problem with that. If you tell me a woman has chosen to wear a Hijab herself, I find it hard to argue why that decision is wrong for her. I know why I would consider it wrong for me, but It's wrong of me to project my values onto anyone else.

    One of my best friends is a girl from a very strict Muslim family who ran away at young age and does NOT follow the tenants of the faith and is on very shaky grounds with her family as a result... but she still defends the wearing of the Hijab for anyone who legitimately chooses to.
    Unfortunately, many girls can't do this. They can't run away, for all sorts of reasons. A very dear friend of mine is in exactly this situation. I would hate to imagine her being forced to wear a Niqab or a Burqa, she struggles enough being forced to wear a Hijab against her wishes right now.

    So what can you do in that first situation you describe? Sure, the con of the ban is that it prevents women from exercising their free will. But a pro is that it lets women who aren't choosing wear something less extreme. It also dissuades extreme interpretations of Islam by limiting the amount of examples of such interpretations that are out in the open for people to see in everyday society. If something isn't ever the norm, less people are likely to endevour in it (As much as MonkeyKing disagrees).

    I mean sure, if you can distinguish those who choose from those who don't in a way that doesn't provide answers under duress or conditioning in obeying one's husband, I'd agree, but as it stands, I veer towards protecting the women who don't have a choice, over protecting those who do. I happen to think the harm of being forced to wear a burqa or a niqab when going outside far outweighs that of not being able to wear one and being limited to a hijab... but maybe that's just me and my western morality, eh?

  16. #15076

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by AfroSamurai View Post
    Ey, Ey, I never said a ban a should apply to Hijabs, I was merely using it for the purposes of my anectodal examples, in those examples where the family was putting undue pressure, it was a Hijab, not a Burqa or a Niqab.
    ok fine


    I'm almost certain that there are women who are forced to wear the more extreme covers than what they would if they had a choice.
    As I said, pretty much no one is wearing the hidjab/niqab to begin with, so I don't get why people are making it sound like it was a big issue for civil rights. (meaning, why banning it in Quebec rises an outrage for civil rights ? no one's wearing this shit anyway)
    EVEN in muslim countries, it's a very uncommon thing. The only persons you'll see wearing it in Turkey (for instance) are the insane muslims from Saudi Arabia, Iran(I guess) or what. I've been there a few weeks, but I've only seen 3 or 5 women from the arabic peninsula wearing it.

    Of course, people wearing the burqa/niqab are obviously pretty much all forced to do so. The only ones who "aren't" are basically indoctrinated
    Last edited by Nilitch; October 23rd, 2017 at 04:23 PM.

  17. #15077
    Karaage-san, Aishiteru! AfroSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilitch View Post
    Of course, people wearing the hijab are obviously pretty much all forced to do so. The only ones who "aren't" are basically indoctrinated
    I disagree, I think you'll find quite a lot of people who genuinely believe in wearing the hijab for religious reasons, even if it may seem silly to you and I.

    Just like nuns wear weird clothing, buddhists try to live a life of meditation in harmony with nature, and francescan priest renounce all material wealth, many muslim women wear Hijabs to show their devotion to the faith. Assuming they're all forced is wrong, even if many no doubt are.

  18. #15078

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    oh yeah I meant Burqa/Niqab
    I'll edit this

  19. #15079

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    I never met anyone in life who doesn't considers him/herself as liberal. I feel like some countries just like to polarize or antagonize each other way too much

  20. #15080

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilitch View Post
    EVEN in muslim countries, it's a very uncommon thing. The only persons you'll see wearing it in Turkey (for instance) are the insane muslims from Saudi Arabia, Iran(I guess) or what. I've been there a few weeks, but I've only seen 3 or 5 women from the arabic peninsula wearing it.
    You keep saying this bit like it's supposed to mean something in the argument (or that you're the only one to ever be in a muslim country for that matter).

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