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Thread: Random News Article Discussion II

  1. #12401
    Swole Chihuahua Rogues' Gallery's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    The article is a few days old, but Tilikum, one of SeaWorld's best-known orca whales, and featured in the documentary "Blackfish," has died.

    https://gma.yahoo.com/tilikum-seawor...opstories.html
    Quote Originally Posted by MDL View Post
    Someone married their stepmom and then got murdered?
    Sounds like he used a monkey paw to make a porno story come true.
    Then the curse of the paw eventually killed him.

  2. #12402

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    My honest thoughts on the Death Penalty are that I'm not against it in theory. the concept that there are crimes so horrible that the person who commits them deserves to have their own life taken makes sense to me.

    In practice, I know there are cases where a person is sentenced to death, the sentence is carried out, and then it's revealed through some new revelation or new technology that they were actually innocent.
    In a world where that can happen, I'm not so sure about the death penalty's viability to be honest.

    That being said, in this case the guy admitted it and was unrepentant about it, so I have absolutely no moral problems with him being sentenced to death.....

    That being said, I AM a bit worried the Deplorables over at the Alt-Reich will treat this guy like a Martyr....

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  3. #12403
    Schrödinger's Giraffe Wooden_Giraffe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    I have no issues with the death penalty as long as there as absolutely no question as to the person's guilt. For certain crimes, especially here where there didn't appear to be any remorse whatsoever I think it's appropriate. Plus somewhere out there is some rich alt-right with enough clout to make this guys' prison life as comfortable as possible.

  4. #12404

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    The article also mentions some factors that mean it's not certain that an execution will even happen.

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  5. #12405

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wooden_Giraffe View Post
    I have no issues with the death penalty as long as there as absolutely no question as to the person's guilt. For certain crimes, especially here where there didn't appear to be any remorse whatsoever I think it's appropriate. Plus somewhere out there is some rich alt-right with enough clout to make this guys' prison life as comfortable as possible.
    Given that he apparently got his ass beat in prison prior to the original trial it don't look like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  6. #12406

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    So I guess that means that guy will still be alive in 50 years since it always takes so long to actually carry out the sentence. It might as well be life in prison. I'm against the death penalty as it works right now, though the idea of killing someone who committed a heinous crime doesn't bother me too much. It could be argued it's an easy out for them though.


  7. #12407
    King of Little Sisters ~ Chrior's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Seriously? Death penalty is still debatable today? Nobody has the right to take away someone's life. Not the majority, not a single judge, not a panel of experts. Killing someone who doesn't wish to die is just not right. I thought this concept was somewhat agreed upon since a century ago or so. Sentences are supposed to teach lessons to people who commit crimes, so that they may repent and reform and, if all goes well, contribute to society in exchange for the damage they've caused it. At most remove the individual from contact with society at large so that they stop damaging it. It should not be an arbitrary punishment with the intent to make the criminal suffer as he made other suffer, or some outdated concept like that. That's what absolutist divine monarchs did throughout history, because they thought themselves superior to other humans, which made them fit to hand out punishment as divine will. The advent of the primacy of Law and Human Rights should have ended such mentalities.

  8. #12408
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
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    I never really cared for the death penalty. It's probably helped by my crazy belief that each society gets to live by the standards they set for themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrior View Post
    Seriously? Death penalty is still debatable today?
    Except for racism and slavery, everything is still debated. At best there's one side winning the argument. I mean more than 2/3 of the world don't do it so there's always that. And executions happens way less often than 50 years before.
    [QUOTE]
    Nobody has the right to take away someone's life.Not the majority, not a single judge, not a panel of experts. Killing someone who doesn't wish to die is just not right.
    Would you say the same the same about the military(like fighting in WWII) or self defense?

    We also imprison people who don't want to be imprison sometime culminating to such long times that they will certainly die in there. Do you think that is right?

    Punishment is also one of the role of the justice system. Not vengeance but the appropriate punishment for the reprehensible acts committed. Or you could just let go of a criminal that did a one-time crime(or felony).

    I thought this concept was somewhat agreed upon since a century ago or so.
    A century ago was the 20s. Execution was pretty ok back then. Try something decades for modern thinking. I mean a century segragation was still the everyday thing and women weren't even voting yet(1919). You really underestimating how far away is and how recent our modern belief are.

    Sentences are supposed to teach lessons to people who commit crimes, so that they may repent and reform and, if all goes well, contribute to society in exchange for the damage they've caused it. At most remove the individual from contact with society at large so that they stop damaging it.
    You believe punishment have no part at all in the system? I mean there is different sentence depending on the gravity so I kinda assumed it was agreed you were also being punished for what you did.

    Evasion is also a thing.

    It should not be an arbitrary punishment with the intent to make the criminal suffer as he made other suffer
    The modern version is pretty painless.

    or some outdated concept like that.
    The rational usually use is society getting rid of the individual for good. Suffering doesn't really do much of an argument because pain isn't really that common in them and the killing process go fast. It's not like they are tortured to death.

    That's what absolutist divine monarchs did throughout history
    I think they had like much more painful method of killings where the suffering was part of the goal.

    because they thought themselves superior to other humans
    I think it was more about the people being killed posing a problem. The superiority probably had more influence in the making people to do what they want and making sure they lived with a maximum of luxary.

    which made them fit to hand out punishment as divine will. The advent of the primacy of Law and Human Rights should have ended such mentalities.
    Well the death penalty isn't about playing god(not the us anyway), it's about delivering the punishment considered appropriate for the abuse by the system made by the given society where the transgression was done.



  9. #12409

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakonosolo View Post
    So I guess that means that guy will still be alive in 50 years since it always takes so long to actually carry out the sentence.
    It can take anywhere from around 7 to 30 years depending on the circumstances.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  10. #12410

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrior View Post
    Seriously? Death penalty is still debatable today? Nobody has the right to take away someone's life. Not the majority, not a single judge, not a panel of experts. Killing someone who doesn't wish to die is just not right. I thought this concept was somewhat agreed upon since a century ago or so. Sentences are supposed to teach lessons to people who commit crimes, so that they may repent and reform and, if all goes well, contribute to society in exchange for the damage they've caused it. At most remove the individual from contact with society at large so that they stop damaging it. It should not be an arbitrary punishment with the intent to make the criminal suffer as he made other suffer, or some outdated concept like that. That's what absolutist divine monarchs did throughout history, because they thought themselves superior to other humans, which made them fit to hand out punishment as divine will. The advent of the primacy of Law and Human Rights should have ended such mentalities.
    Only if the penitentiary system has an infrastructure capable of re-structuring prisoners into society, who would have to "forgive" former prisoners after their prison sentences.
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  11. #12411

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    I've always been against the death penalty, and a big part is the fact that the executioners are essentially paid to legally murder people.
    You like to kill? Sign up for that position. It will be seen as a service, not a crime.

    I also think along the lines of the 'two wrongs don't make a right' thing.
    Person A kills someone, then gets sentenced to death.
    Person B executes person A.
    Person B has killed someone.

    Back where we started.

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  12. #12412

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    I don't think the way they do it now would give anyone any satisfaction though. It's too distanced for anyone who wants to kill someone I imagine.


  13. #12413
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDL View Post
    I've always been against the death penalty, and a big part is the fact that the executioners are essentially paid to legally murder people.
    You like to kill? Sign up for that position. It will be seen as a service, not a crime.
    I think military would be much more fufilling than that. And at least they are canalizing their urges to places that don't hurt society. I mean do you prefer someone who likes killing on the loose in the country or performing in places where killing is necessary like on a battlefield? In one case the guy is a potential problem to society, in the other he being productive and loves an aspect of his job that most people don't.

    I also think along the lines of the 'two wrongs don't make a right' thing.
    Person A kills someone, then gets sentenced to death.
    Person B executes person A.
    Person B has killed someone.

    Back where we started.
    Sequestration is also a crime but we do prisons anyway.
    The killing isn't the only factor. The why also matters. I mean military and self defense are a thing.



  14. #12414

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    I feel like those people who support killing Dylan Roof would oppose it if he was black and the victims were white. There are no valid moral justifications for killing a person who would otherwise remain incapacitated by the state indefinitely.

  15. #12415

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    I suppose it hinges on if you believe that certain protections of the human rights are ever conditional.

  16. #12416

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    If they aren't investing in returning them to society, glorify violence, and believe that punishment is more important than rehabilitation, then whatever.
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  17. #12417

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    I suppose it hinges on if you believe that certain protections of the human rights are ever conditional.
    I can see the value in taking away rights that we know would be used by the individual to hurt and kill others, but there's no reason to take the life of a prisoner when taking his/her freedom will be just as successful.

    When someone is a free and active threat to the public, killing (as rarely as possible) may be necessary to protect the innocent, but homicide by law enforcement and state-ordered executions are very different things.

    There's also the issue of political assassinations, but those are almost never done to protect the lives of the innocent, so I'm almost never sympathetic to them.
    ...Unless it's Hitler of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxterdexter View Post
    If they aren't investing in returning them to society, glorify violence, and believe that punishment is more important than rehabilitation, then whatever.
    Yeah... that's basically the crux of our prison problem. We put people in the corner and make them stay there, often for profit.
    Last edited by RoboBlue; January 11th, 2017 at 04:11 AM.

  18. #12418

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    I can see the value in taking away rights that we know would be used by the individual to hurt and kill others, but there's no reason to take the life of a prisoner when taking his/her freedom is just as successful.
    This raises the question of proportionality.

    Is the snuffing of dozens of lives the equal of a couple of decades in jail?

    Ones thoughts on that of course hinges on what your thoughts on retribution are.

  19. #12419

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    This raises the question of proportionality.

    Is the snuffing of dozens of lives the equal of a couple of decades in jail?

    Ones thoughts on that of course hinges on what your thoughts on retribution are.
    Retribution isn't what should motivate our criminal justice system. We need to look at the situation very carefully and decide what course of action will result in the best possible overlapping outcome for society as a whole and the people involved.

  20. #12420

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    I feel like those people who support killing Dylan Roof would oppose it if he was black and the victims were white.
    Sure Roboblue, that's what human beings would do. The world is exactly like your facebook feed.

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