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Thread: Random News Article Discussion II

  1. #11701

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Guilty or innocent, i'd wager that if he showed up in Sweden he'd end his stay in a box headed to the US.

    But yeah running from charges does tell it's own tale.

  2. #11702

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    It's also wrong to defend someone deliberately evading arrest and questioning for an alleged crime under shitty pretenses.
    So literally reporting the facts in an unbiased manner is now wrong?
    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    If he stays at the Ecuadorian Embassy until 2020 the rape allegation will forever remain an allegation. And any supposed evidence will be moot, the ball's in Assange's court not mine.
    ...Why?
    Why should that evidence be sealed forever at an arbitrary date?

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Great idea, now if only Assange would leave the Ecuadorian embassy and go to court in Sweden, you know, those places where evidence is brought up. Then maybe we could start seeing evidence presented and stuff like that.
    OR that evidence could be brought to the media. The court of public opinion still reaches him.

  3. #11703

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Guilty or innocent, i'd wager that if he showed up in Sweden he'd end his stay in a box headed to the US.
    Assagne probably lives under the assumption that he'll never even get a fair trial in Sweden, since the country is probably just some sort of crony to him.
    That works favorably for him, since the outcome is good to him either way. If he did it, he'll get out scot free from the whole situation under the pretense that he would've never got a fair trial anyway. If he didn't do it and still refuses to go to trial it will still lead to freedom for him.
    Let's assume his paranoia is justified though, couldn't someone just stick him with some made up charges like 'you conspired with someone to commit manslaughter' and call it a day?
    Now that I'm thinking about it, can't you just do the trial at the embassy? Maybe there's some sort of legislation against that sorta thing. That way, if he truly is not guilty he'll at least get a chance to defend himself and prove his innocence, wouldn't that be in the best interest of everyone, assuming he's innocent?


  4. #11704

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    OR that evidence could be brought to the media. The court of public opinion still reaches him.
    Or he could go to trial because that's the system in western society no matter who you are?
    What are you even arguing at this point?
    That to stand trial you have to personally be convinced you might be guilty?? Or that you have to have popular opinion agree that you should stand trial??
    This is all complete nonsense.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheep View Post
    Now that I'm thinking about it, can't you just do the trial at the embassy?
    He's not in Sweden, he in the UK.
    Also....what?
    No, you do trials in courts. Like normal people. Why does Assange deserve special treatment here?
    That way, if he truly is not guilty he'll at least get a chance to defend himself and prove his innocence,
    He also gets to do those things in Sweden.
    Or is Sweden some notoriously corrupt mafia state where none of these things is a safe assumption?

  5. #11705

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    If anything his odds of getting away with rape would seem good in a Swedish court of law.

    We have a terrible track record of prosecuting rape cases.

  6. #11706

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    He's not in Sweden, he in the UK.
    Also....what?
    No, you do trials in courts. Like normal people. Why does Assange deserve special treatment here?
    I'm just arguing from a stand point if his paranoia was justified, like all that stuff about the US being this big shadowy puppet master who just wants him jailed is true (not what I believe, btw.)
    I know enough people in real life who'd just flat out assume that the UK, Sweden or anyone in the west basically don't possess a shred of integrity, so he'll never have a fair trial, which in their logic justifies his absence from court.
    Less me believing he deserves special treatment and more assuming what would be the best way to end this whole annoying situation while appeasing that sorta paranoid mindset, because obviously he won't do what's asked from him either way.
    Of course if you think that appeasement for that sorta crazy paranoia shouldn't ever be considered, fair enough, just trying to figure out what to do with all this since nothing is happening right now.
    You could drag him out of the embassy, but I'd rather not turn Assagne into a sort of martyr for all the tinfoil conspiracy shitheads.

    He also gets to do those things in Sweden.
    Or is Sweden some notoriously corrupt mafia state where none of these things is a safe assumption?
    I don't think so but I'm inclined to believe he does.
    Last edited by Sheep; October 4th, 2016 at 04:24 PM.


  7. #11707

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    If anything his odds of getting away with rape would seem good in a Swedish court of law.

    We have a terrible track record of prosecuting rape cases.
    It's that bad ?

    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    So literally reporting the facts in an unbiased manner is now wrong?
    The facts are Assange is suspected of committing sexual assault in the country of Sweden and for the last 4 years has been holed up in a building in London to avoid being arrested for it. That and his organization have been engaged in a rather petty feud with a Presidential candidate that could lead to Donald Trump being our 45th President.


    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    ...Why?
    Why should that evidence be sealed forever at an arbitrary date?
    Because that's apparently when the statute of limitation (or whatever it is) on the rape charge runs expires. Meaning he can't be questioned, arrested, or convicted on that charge after the fact.


    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    OR that evidence could be brought to the media. The court of public opinion still reaches him.
    About half the court of public opinion believe he's a saint and that these allegations are some form of reprisal for his and wikileaks "allegedly" good work.
    Last edited by Green_vs_Red; October 4th, 2016 at 04:31 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
    3DS Friend Code 0044-2806-5284




  8. #11708

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    It's that bad ?
    The words "case closed" and "No further investigation" do spring to mind when you think Swedish police.

    http://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/ACT77/001/2010/en/

    A bit of an oldie this one. But it's more or less the same old song and dance in 2016. The staff shortage doesn't help either.

  9. #11709

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Or he could go to trial because that's the system in western society no matter who you are?
    What are you even arguing at this point?
    That to stand trial you have to personally be convinced you might be guilty?? Or that you have to have popular opinion agree that you should stand trial??
    This is all complete nonsense.
    He isn't going to stand trial because he's deliberately staying out of their reach. If there is compelling evidence, and it's made public, his reputation could be irreparably damaged.

    What I've literally been arguing the whole time is this:
    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    We should not view his entire life through the lens of that one accusation.
    In response to this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyan D. Funk View Post
    Assange is a rapist so it's for the best that everyone ignores what he says.
    It isn't really a good thing that he's escaping the justice system. It also isn't a good thing that he could be extradited to the US. It also isn't a good thing that this is a rape accusation that can't easily be proven. Rape is bad; I don't know what else to say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    Because that's apparently when the statute of limitation (or whatever it is) on the rape charge runs expires. Meaning he can't be questioned, arrested, or convicted on that charge after the fact.
    He can still be confronted with evidence of rape. It's the only justice his alleged victims are going to get at this rate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    About half the court of public opinion believe he's a saint and that these allegations are some form of reprisal for his and wikileaks "allegedly" good work.
    "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." That isn't a reason to hide the truth.
    Last edited by RoboBlue; October 4th, 2016 at 04:42 PM.

  10. #11710

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheep View Post
    I'm just arguing from a stand point if his paranoia was justified, like all that stuff about the US being this big shadowy puppet master who just wants him jailed is true (not what I believe, btw.)
    I know enough people in real life who'd just flat out assume that the UK, Sweden or anyone in the west basically don't possess a shred of integrity, so he'll never have a fair trial, which in their logic justifies his absence from court.
    Their logic is dumb and probably deeply infected with garbage level news. Very possibly also Russian disinfo sites.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    He isn't going to stand trial because he's deliberately staying out of their reach. If there is compelling evidence, and it's made public, his reputation could be irreparably damaged.

    What I've literally been arguing the whole time is this:
    I'm going to guess the victims are not cool with their personal information being wielded around like that outside the confines of the court.

  11. #11711

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    He isn't going to stand trial because he's deliberately staying out of their reach. If there is compelling evidence, and it's made public, his reputation could be irreparably damaged.
    If he keeps hyping up major and world shattering leaks then doesn't deliver anything substantive along with leaving people's personal information unredacted with those leaks he's going damage his and wikileaks reputation.



    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    What I've literally been arguing the whole time is this:

    In response to this:

    It isn't really a good thing that he's escaping the justice system. It also isn't a good thing that he could be extradited to the US. It also isn't a good thing that this is a rape accusation that can't easily be proven. Rape is bad; I don't know what else to say.
    That's not really how I read it but if you say so.
    Last edited by Green_vs_Red; October 4th, 2016 at 05:30 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
    3DS Friend Code 0044-2806-5284




  12. #11712

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    I'm going to guess the victims are not cool with their personal information being wielded around like that outside the confines of the court.
    They themselves would have to present it publicly.

    Anyway, I've already made my point like six times: It's bad to judge someone based solely on a single allegation of wrongdoing. I'm abandoning this debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    If he keeps hyping up major and world shattering leaks then doesn't deliver anything substantive along with leaving people's personal information unredacted with those leaks he's going damage his and wikileaks reputation.
    I think that ship sailed this morning.

  13. #11713
    The Nice Guy Outerspec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    You know the system is broken when cops can get away with police brutality by, yes, being fired, but then being rehired and receiving pay for the days they missed off the job plus interest.

    http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...ct/?comments=1

    Now this particular guy was fired again and tried to sue his former department for releasing the video of him hitting a man that was cuffed. Saying releasing the video violated his first amendment right, lol.

    Bonus: John Oliver did a great video on police accountability this week.

    Everything's Eventual...


  14. #11714

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Their logic is dumb and probably deeply infected with garbage level news. Very possibly also Russian disinfo sites.
    I agree, but what to do?
    Dragging him out of the embassy seems like a bad move. Maybe appealing to the ecuadorian government? I doubt that would work, anti-americanism seems too popular with them to be even considered.
    I guess four years will pass, nothings gonna happen and and a possibly guilty man is gonna walk free, which will lead to me having to endure songs of praises for Assagne in years to come, something that next to the constant glorification for Putin and Snowden is eventually going to make me snap.


  15. #11715

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    You know the system is broken when cops can get away with police brutality by, yes, being fired, but then being rehired and receiving pay for the days they missed off the job plus interest.

    http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...ct/?comments=1

    Now this particular guy was fired again and tried to sue his former department for releasing the video of him hitting a man that was cuffed. Saying releasing the video violated his first amendment right, lol.

    Bonus: John Oliver did a great video on police accountability this week.
    Didn't Jon Stewart do a segment on someone getting fired and rehired a bunch of times? I feel like this problem has been mentioned in the media a bunch of times, but it keeps going unsolved. :/

  16. #11716
    The Nice Guy Outerspec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    I'm not sure but I wouldn't be surprised if Jon Stewart did a segment on it. People have been talking about this issue for decades. This goes way, way back.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuschiawarrior View Post
    In other news british troops to be exempt from European human rights laws.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7343551.html
    Well, at least they'll still be subject to International Humanitarian Law like the Geneva convention and U.K. criminal law. But I'm weary of a major fighting force being shielded from any human rights law though if I understand it correctly it's because the cases brought forth by the laws might be fabricated and/or abused.

    The Iraq Historic Allegations Team was set up by the government to review and investigate allegations of abuse by Iraqi civilians relating to UK armed forces personnel in Iraq during the period of 2003 to July 2009. It was investigating almost 1,500 cases of mistreatment and unlawful killings brought by Iraqis during the eight-year conflict. But the number was set to drop to around 250 due to the collapse of law firm Public Interest Lawyers, which closed last month amid allegations of misconduct and claims many of the cases lacked evidence.
    Hmmmm....greedy bureaucracy or saving face? Obviously, neither party is innocent though the British government isn't pretending to be but 250 does look better than 1,500. Also, 250 sounds like too low a number.
    Everything's Eventual...


  17. #11717

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Well, at least they'll still be subject to International Humanitarian Law like the Geneva convention and U.K. criminal law. But I'm weary of a major fighting force being shielded from any human rights law though if I understand it correctly it's because the cases brought forth by the laws might be fabricated and/or abused.

    Hmmmm....greedy bureaucracy or saving face? Obviously, neither party is innocent though the British government isn't pretending to be but 250 does look better than 1,500. Also, 250 sounds like too low a number.
    I just thought that the timing was interesting, while the US is opening itself to this kind of litigation, the UK is shutting it down. Honestly even 1,500 is a low number.

  18. #11718

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-cut-migration

    Rent to illegal immigrants and go directly to jail. Fresh new ideas from the united kingdom.

  19. #11719

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-cut-migration

    Rent to illegal immigrants and go directly to jail. Fresh new ideas from the united kingdom.
    They don't even have a wall. How do they expect to keep them out?

    This weather girl said Haiti was more at risk from Hurricane Matthew because starving children ate the trees.
    Last edited by RoboBlue; October 5th, 2016 at 12:14 PM.

  20. #11720

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