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Thread: Random News Article Discussion II

  1. #11241

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    You could call it general anger at idiocy. I came across this later in the day, an actual sexual harassment incident (allegation) between two athletes. Conspiracy nuts similarly tend to gravitate towards completely insubstantial scandals like Obama's birth certificate instead of real ones like the extrajudicial killing of American citizens.

  2. #11242
    The Nice Guy Outerspec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    While part of me is inclined to agree with this the reaction isn't completely unjustified given the recurring issue of police officers nonchalantly killing blacks, This coming a little over two years after another controversial police shooting in the same city, The city's police chief being a bit of a lying unsympathetic douche whose idea that all the citizens arm themselves to protect themselves may have had a hand in the suspect/victim being shot, Along with the city apparently having......outdated issues doesn't exactly help
    Basically.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaido King of the Beasts View Post
    Yeah I can see the underlying issues but it makes me very angry when people try to "solve things" by destroying other people's property especially now when it was highly unlikely that race played any factor at all in the shooting
    But it isn't just about race playing a factor in this one shooting. It's about what you and Green_vs_Red were talking about. The underlying issues. This riot didn't just happen because a black man was shot and the rest of the city was like, 'I feel like rioting today'. This isn't about one police officer and one victim. This is about the relationship between the police and the entire community and just how strained it is. The anger, resentment, scrutiny, fear, and feeling of powerlessness and injustice is built up. Over many, many years. Every once in a while it reaches a boiling point where even a seemingly justified straw can break a camel's back. Not that that's a good analogy to describe a man being killed and a small portion of a city rioting.

    I do agree it too makes me angry with all the property destruction and harmful image and rhetoric that comes out of rioting though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    That's especially telling given when stuff like this happens it can take weeks or months for the footage to get out.

    Of course Miuwaukee's police chief came up with reasons for why the riot happened in the first place
    http://www.rawstory.com/2016/08/foxs...style-choices/

    Miuwaukee's mayor and police chief are odd couple to be sure.
    Notice how he puts no blame on police practices and a decades-old system that was designed to do more damage to minorities than to serve and protect the community. But if he just wants to make it purely political Katzztar already got that covered.

    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    I considered posting this in the Olympics thread, but it's really not relevant or related to the Olympics at all.
    Why am I seeing this garbage everywhere?
    This isn't garbage. This is a real issue real people face in every society and country in the world. Sexism shouldn't be ignored and should be rightfully called out at every chance. That's the only way to keep the most amount of people aware of the problem, because it is a problem, and combat it. Shaming terrible coverage of female athletes encourages change of behavior in the future. It also presents a dialogue of why it's not ok to discuss females athletes like that in comparison to their male counterparts. It creates a better understanding for girls around the world to know that they shouldn't be defined solely by their gender. Also, discussing what is sexist encourages people to look into "why" allowing them a better chance to be more informed on the issue.

    There might be 'bigger' issues out there to discuss and cover in anyone's opinion but that does not mean we should start to question real issues we perceive as lesser. Especially when they might not be.
    Everything's Eventual...


  3. #11243

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    This isn't garbage. This is a real issue real people face in every society and country in the world. Sexism shouldn't be ignored and should be rightfully called out at every chance. That's the only way to keep the most amount of people aware of the problem, because it is a problem, and combat it. Shaming terrible coverage of female athletes encourages change of behavior in the future. It also presents a dialogue of why it's not ok to discuss females athletes like that in comparison to their male counterparts. It creates a better understanding for girls around the world to know that they shouldn't be defined solely by their gender. Also, discussing what is sexist encourages people to look into "why" allowing them a better chance to be more informed on the issue.

    There might be 'bigger' issues out there to discuss and cover in anyone's opinion but that does not mean we should start to question real issues we perceive as lesser. Especially when they might not be.
    Reporting on sexism is fine, but how are any of those stories actual sexism? How are women being disenfranchised when a woman is compared to Michael Jordan to show that she's the undisputed best in her sport? The story I linked in a later post showed real sexism: the willingness of a male athlete to claim a female prize he felt belonged to him.

  4. #11244
    The Nice Guy Outerspec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    Reporting on sexism is fine, but how are any of those stories actual sexism? How are women being disenfranchised when a woman is compared to Michael Jordan to show that she's the undisputed best in her sport? The story I linked in a later post showed real sexism: the willingness of a male athlete to claim a female prize he felt belonged to him.
    There is a lot of evident progress to point at and it differs from place to place, sport to sport, but we still live in a society where girls are largely discouraged from participating in sports and female athletes are labeled as "tomboys" just from doing competitive physical activity. Too many times women are also talked about and valued more for their appearance rather than their performance. There is this notion that exceptional competitors like Simone Biles are unique anomalies because of their exceptional physical skills but all female athletes in general are an anomaly because they're into sports. And when they do perform exceptionally well at such a high level it comes to the case where their achievement is compared to that of a man's, so when Simone Bile's significant achievement was compared to the achievement of Michael Jordan it reinforces the message that men are at the top and women are just trying to be as good as them. We're the tip of the iceberg.

    Of course, that's not the only message the well-intentioned comparison was saying. It was also saying how great Simone Biles was. That she was considered the GOAT in her sport. Simone loved the comment because of course she would. Most people would because it was meant as a compliment but well-intended or not there is an underlying theme of "Pretty good for a girl" going on there.

    And that's the most easy remark to defend from that article. Taking a look at the other ones...

    Katie Ledecky earns gold and a world record but her title is put under Michael Phelps? Now surely that's because "Michael Phelps" has the bigger name draw but what does that image say and how does it look to other women who read that title? Don't think they're easily offended or sensitive or any of that nonsense but, again, it just reinforces and perpetuates the notion that men are the pinnacle of not only sports but achievement, period. That our accomplishments matter more and are more important.

    I mentioned this one in an earlier comment but recognizing the 'wife of Chicago Bears player' for winning bronze in the Olympics is pretty demeaning. Rather than saying her name (Corey Cogdell) she is reduced to the title of "wife". The only reason they didn't name the Chicago Bears player was because he had nothing to do with winning the bronze or the overall the Olympics at all.

    A commentator crediting Katinka Hosszu's accomplishments to her husband. Well-intended and even partly accurate but perpetuates the notion that women can't be accomplished without a man. Again, not the only thing you can get from that message but it has undertones.

    Commentators discussing whether or not female athletes should wear makeup or not? Commentators referring to a women's judo match as a "catfight"!?

    Now, Dana Vollmer winning bronze after giving birth 17 months ago can go many ways. On one hand, commentators talk about athletes coming back from injuries all the time to win but giving birth isn't some unwanted injury you need time to recover from so you can compete again. It's a natural life giving process. On the other hand, I've seen plenty of stories about mothers post-pregnancy encouraging other moms or soon-to-be moms to stay healthy by living an active lifestyle. Winning a bronze in the Olympics after giving birth can be pretty inspiring health related story if told from that perspective. But this all comes with the baggage lumped onto women that giving birth and raising children is the #1 priority and any goals outside of that is extra.

    I've said this before and I'll say it again. This all comes across as very nitpicky but that's what you're forced to do. Nip it in the bud but normally that's what you do to prevent a problem that is just beginning and you don't want it to grow. Sexism has been around waaaay longer to just nip it in the bud so exposing it where you see it and making people aware is the next best thing. And the objective is not to vilify these people who are making these comments or demean them. No, rather to help them see from a different point of view on why their comments can be taken differently and the affects it may have on a larger society than their own little world. We all have our own little worlds but are actions and words reverberate much farther than we give them credit. We can't go through life pretending we have nothing more to learn and refusing to try and look at issues from different perspectives.

    I forgot to ask. What is "real" sexism?
    Everything's Eventual...


  5. #11245

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    I've said this before and I'll say it again. This all comes across as very nitpicky but that's what you're forced to do. Nip it in the bud but normally that's what you do to prevent a problem that is just beginning and you don't want it to grow. Sexism has been around waaaay longer to just nip it in the bud so exposing it where you see it and making people aware is the next best thing. And the objective is not to vilify these people who are making these comments or demean them. No, rather to help them see from a different point of view on why their comments can be taken differently and the affects it may have on a larger society than their own little world. We all have our own little worlds but are actions and words reverberate much farther than we give them credit. We can't go through life pretending we have nothing more to learn and refusing to try and look at issues from different perspectives.

    I forgot to ask. What is "real" sexism?
    Your objective may not be to vilify people, but it's undeniable that people are being vilified as a result. Sexism doesn't grow like a plant, a person either believes that one gender is superior and will hurt people based on that belief, or they don't. "Real" sexism is self-explanatory, it's actual sexism as opposed to imagined sexism. If a statement in no way implies the supremacy of one sex, it literally cannot be sexist. If that statement or action is in no way disenfranchising the "victim", why do you believe them to be a victim at all?

  6. #11246
    The Nice Guy Outerspec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    Your objective may not be to vilify people, but it's undeniable that people are being vilified as a result. Sexism doesn't grow like a plant, a person either believes that one gender is superior and will hurt people based on that belief, or they don't. "Real" sexism is self-explanatory, it's actual sexism as opposed to imagined sexism. If a statement in no way implies the supremacy of one sex, it literally cannot be sexist. If that statement or action is in no way disenfranchising the "victim", why do you believe them to be a victim at all?
    Most people I think don't believe one race or sex is superior to the other but that doesn't mean they don't have preconceived notions or biases about one or the other that shapes their behavior. When you live in a society that consistently reinforces stereotypes, attitudes, and biases through media and day to day interaction you become affected by that. It shapes how you think, how you view the world and others, and how you interact with that world and others.

    Not that I believe a dictionary definition is the best way to understand the nuances of a meaning of word but going off of the definition you yourself posted:
    Full Definition of sexism

    • 1 : prejudice or discrimination based on sex; especially : discrimination against women
    • 2 : behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex

    So you have your first definition of sexism which is the broader systematic definition and the second one which describes exactly what I was talking about in my above post. "Behavior, conditions, and attitudes" that reinforces stereotypes and social roles based on sex like the how women are talked about in sports. It's like some of these commentators don't know how to talk about female athletes because they're not used them being in that role. Sexism isn't just about believing one sex is superior to the other. It also involves furthering negative views and attitudes impending one sex from being viewed or treated as equal.
    Everything's Eventual...


  7. #11247

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    I disagree that the examples shown foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex. I think that's our core disagreement.

  8. #11248

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    I disagree that the examples shown foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex. I think that's our core disagreement.
    I think the disagreement stems from Outer knowing you're wrong =P

    For what it's worth, I agree that the Michael Jordan bit is stretching it, but the examples given definitely involve and reinforce stereotypes about a woman's worth and her place relative to men, and as a whole reflect the attitudes people have about women in sports.
    Crediting female success to male ownership, male perceptions of beauty/worth, etc., are definitely sexist issues since in the media they will encourage the idea that female worth only exists as defined by men.

    I think your core error is thinking that if you're not explicitly putting someone down that you're not putting them down at all, which is just plain incorrect. Communication is a bit more nuanced than what you seem to realize.

  9. #11249

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    On the whole concept of 'double standards' in sexist coverage of Olympics: https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...s-women-sexism

  10. #11250

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  11. #11251

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hudell View Post
    Are they really allowed to hold American citizens against their will over an allegedly false police report?

  12. #11252

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Being that it looks like they committed a crime on top of filing a false police report it sure does look that way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  13. #11253

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Welp! You all can probably guess what this made me think about instantly.

    http://en.people.cn/n3/2016/0817/c90000-9101646.html
    "Woman sets Guinness World Record with 17-month-long pregnancy"










  14. #11254

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Al!naJames View Post
    Welp! You all can probably guess what this made me think about instantly.

    http://en.people.cn/n3/2016/0817/c90000-9101646.html
    "Woman sets Guinness World Record with 17-month-long pregnancy"
    protogas d rouge ?

  15. #11255

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    Don't state the obvious answer.

  16. #11256

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    Being that it looks like they committed a crime on top of filing a false police report it sure does look that way.
    It sounded like a civil matter that they settled outside of the police. 3 guys got really drunk and one of them broke the restroom door; Then afterwards they were forced to pay the damages at gunpoint.
    TBH, it sounds like they could really have remembered it wrong or misunderstood, being drunk and all. It definitely wasn't behavior appropriate for the Olympics, but I don't think it justified seizing their passports.

  17. #11257

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    ^ They had to come up with some way from leaving so they could further question them. Ultimately they messed up and then lied about it and should face whatever punishment is on the table.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  18. #11258
    Flagon Snaggin' Dragon Kaido King of the Beasts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II



    Spoiler:

  19. #11259

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hudell View Post
    The most suprising thing here is that a young American is named Gunnar.

    I can hardly think of a more old-manish Swedish name. Guess it's some kind of back to their roots thing huh

  20. #11260

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II


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