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Thread: Random News Article Discussion II

  1. #8981

  2. #8982

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    i heard bomb exploded in ankara at turkey

  3. #8983
    The Ugly never die loneassassin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    I managed to read the story before it was pulled. Jesus Christ what a story absolving the guy of all blame for the horrible crimes he committed

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  4. #8984

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ion-rules.html

    To nobody's suprise the "child" turned out to be roughly in his twenties.
    Sorry I didn't read the article but how does this change the conversation about immigration in Sweden, if at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    I demand diversity in our Indian-American important peoples community. An overwhelming amount are Tamil lol.
    (I'm even looking at you Jindal, Punjab? Sure, but originally? You're dark as hell dude)
    It's almost it's own proof that South India is the Western Europe of South Asia.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Aziz Ansari? Tamil.
    Mindy Kaling? Tamil.
    M Night Shyamalan? Tamil.
    Padma Lakshi? Tamil.

    Go ahead, make a Tamil supreme court judge. WHY NOT!
    South India is so far ahead in development and education than North India that the difference is laughable.

    Another reason why you have so many people from a Tamil heritage who belong to highly educated families is because a lot of Tamils migrated abroad because of the hostile political climate in Tamil Nadu. Basically, Brahmins in Tamil Nadu had monopolised education and power for multiple generations before British rule levelled the playing field a bit. The few educated lowest castes then formed a militant nativist anti-Brahmin political force in the 1930s which captured the public imagination and finally got a hold of political power in the 1960s. In a swift reversal of fortunes, Brahmins were instantly disenfranchised politically and a lot of them moved abroad, using their education to their advantage.

    Another community that you'd see a lot of in universities, hospitals and other such backgrounds is the Bengalis, who also emigrated in waves after the displacement of the partition of India, the formation of Bangladesh and the Communists winning the elections in West Bengal in the 1970s. Jhumpa Lahiri, Salman Khan and Amar Bose are all Bengalis. Mindy Kaling, Jawed Karim and Norah Jones are all half-Bengali.

    Quote Originally Posted by xan View Post
    The last name 'Jindal' is of North Indian Brahmin lineage.
    Specifically, Punjabi, as Monkey King mentioned already. Same as Nikki Haley, incidentally.

    Quote Originally Posted by xan View Post
    Glad that he isn't from where I am from but he truly is an embarrassment to us either way.
    He's not. His fervent disavowal of his heritage makes it easier for us to wash our hands of him.

    Quote Originally Posted by xan View Post
    Many fair skinned people live in South and dark skin in North too so it's difficult to categorize.
    This also has a lot to do with caste. A lot of the fair-skinned South-Indians I've seen belong to one of the so-called higher castes. Similarly, most of the so-called higher castes (especially Brahmins and Kshatriyas) in the North tend to be fair-skinned.

    Quote Originally Posted by xan View Post
    I wouldn't say only the South is more developed than the rest of the Northern parts but its just that the central part which is a little screwed up which gives the entire North a bad name.
    The South is miles ahead in almost every development indicator, economic or social. The cow-belt is truly horrendous but its not like places like Haryana or Rajasthan are covering themselves in glory. The hill states do okay because they're small and have tons of natural resources and Punjab is doing well economically but they're also underperforming in a lot of social indicators.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by firelord111 View Post
    i heard bomb exploded in ankara at turkey
    Another game of IS or PKK has begun.

  5. #8985

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by firelord111 View Post
    i heard bomb exploded in ankara at turkey
    Yeah, the timing is really almost too good. With Turkey threatening to go into Syria this past weekend.
    I wouldn't put it past Erdogan to create an excuse.
    But if not him it seems like a PKK action I guess.

  6. #8986

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Yeah, the timing is really almost too good. With Turkey threatening to go into Syria this past weekend.
    I wouldn't put it past Erdogan to create an excuse.
    But if not him it seems like a PKK action I guess.
    it was around 10 hours ago
    the boming target was military personnel

  7. #8987

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by firelord111 View Post
    it was around 10 hours ago
    the boming target was military personnel
    Yeah that's what makes it seem like the PKK rather than ISIS.
    ISIS would go for civilians and outright terrorism.
    The PKK would target soldiers, they focus the terrorism on military stuff. Usually anyway (I think there's a more extremist Kurdish group around somewhere).
    It's just really hard to trust the current Turkish administration though.

  8. #8988

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    what gives turkey the right to bombard kords in syria doesnt bombarding another country mean war ?

  9. #8989

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    It's weird how the mentally disabled wind up looking smarter than those who aren't
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  10. #8990

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by firelord111 View Post
    what gives turkey the right to bombard kords in syria doesnt bombarding another country mean war ?
    The Syrian Kurds are allied with the Turkish Kurds is the issue in Turkey's mind. The groups in those countries have lots of ties.
    A thing that isn't true about the Iraqi Kurds, who the Turks are ok with.
    In Erdogan's mind a successful Kurdish country or zone forming in Syria right on the border with Turkey's Kurdish population is dangerous and could lead to the Turkish Kurds getting more powerful and trying to make their own country.

    Of course the Turkish government should maybe not treat them so horribly in general. Something Erdogan originally seemed to be trying.
    Now Turkish Kurdistan is filled with violence and Turkish troops trying to root out Kurdish rebels. This will only draw the civilian Kurds to sympathize more and more with the rebels. It's a classic problem seen everywhere. It's perhaps quite similar to Israeli military actions into Gaza. They go to put down Hamas, but their brutality only makes Hamas stronger long term.

    The Turkish state formed on nationalism. Turkish nationalism. They never learned to live with their minority people, nearly all the Christian ones were killed or ethnically cleansed long ago. And the Muslim ones never were properly allowed their own identity either, and so peace never really formed on that front and here we are.
    It would have been better to embrace the more nebulous "Ottoman" identity, but the death of that empire was very traumatic and bloody. This is not something Iran had to endure, even regarding the 79' revolution and 80's war with Iraq. A fairly inclusive Persian identity has never really been questioned or tarnished like the Ottoman one was (interpreted differently yes, obviously the Shah and Ayatollahs would not agree on the definition). Probably helps that "Persia" as a concept is very ancient and "Ottoman" was from like the 1300's.
    And there wasn't really any attempts to break away by minority groups in Iran. I'd say that not having large Christian minorities helped Iran a lot....but Kurds and Turks are both Muslim. And even both Sunni Muslim... so even that doesn't explain things.

    Romantic nationalism is a poison from Europe that seems so sweet on the outside but has such darkness hidden inside. Turkey got infected by it. Perhaps so have the Kurds though...it doesn't have to be dark. We will see.

  11. #8991
    UNTITLED xan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooldud View Post
    South India is so far ahead in development and education than North India that the difference is laughable.

    Another reason why you have so many people from a Tamil heritage who belong to highly educated families is because a lot of Tamils migrated abroad because of the hostile political climate in Tamil Nadu. Basically, Brahmins in Tamil Nadu had monopolised education and power for multiple generations before British rule levelled the playing field a bit. The few educated lowest castes then formed a militant nativist anti-Brahmin political force in the 1930s which captured the public imagination and finally got a hold of political power in the 1960s. In a swift reversal of fortunes, Brahmins were instantly disenfranchised politically and a lot of them moved abroad, using their education to their advantage.
    Hmm from the names he had mentioned, only two of them are Brahmins btw

    Just to add to that, the hostile political climate isn't bland persecution in any way. There were reservations put in government related jobs which uplifted many non-Brahmins, who were previously ignored, which caused the former to leave the state for better economical options. There wasn't any "militant" force of any sorts, at least not in the sense of brutal onces that happen in the North. The anti-Brahmanism was understandable considering the intense persecution the lower castes had to go through for generations but contrary to popular historical lower class uprisings, there was barely any violence involved here. More importantly, anti-Hindi sentiments broke out resurrecting the Dravidian and linguistic sentiments which helped the political parties oust all of the national parties too.

    That's actually an interesting history topic given below

    Spoiler:

    The empires from North have never been able to capture the Southern kingdoms or sustain it for a significant time

    The Marathas

    http://www.mapsofindia.com/history/m...ingdom-map.jpg

    The Mughals

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...orical_Map.png

    The Guptas

    http://www.classzone.com/cz/books/ms...uptaempire.jpg

    The Mauryas

    http://mrspencer.info/wp-content/upl...-Asoka-Map.jpg

    Aaand.. history just repeats itself. This is the map of the Prime Minister elections that came up few years back

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...rteien.svg.png

    BJP could very well be a democratic version of the Maratha empire who have strikingly similar nationalistic views.


    Another community that you'd see a lot of in universities, hospitals and other such backgrounds is the Bengalis, who also emigrated in waves after the displacement of the partition of India, the formation of Bangladesh and the Communists winning the elections in West Bengal in the 1970s. Jhumpa Lahiri, Salman Khan and Amar Bose are all Bengalis. Mindy Kaling, Jawed Karim and Norah Jones are all half-Bengali.
    Oops! Forgot about the Bengalis. That's actually quite true with Kerala too except they ended up going to the Gulf countries after the communist parties started taking over the state.

    This also has a lot to do with caste. A lot of the fair-skinned South-Indians I've seen belong to one of the so-called higher castes. Similarly, most of the so-called higher castes (especially Brahmins and Kshatriyas) in the North tend to be fair-skinned.
    It WAS the case long back but not anymore. Many are bland stereotypes that are propagated through movies and general misunderstanding of the southern region. I am not a Brahmin, my exact origin is near Kanyakumari and I could pass off as a typical "North Indian" any day. Generally yes there are many dark skinned people in the South but it has less to do with castes now. Kerala has many fair skinned people from the coastal areas due to European mix centuries back. Andhra has been ruled by Nizams with Turkish/Arab origins and have been mixed with similar features too. Karnataka has been under many Northern empires hence there is quite a lot of mix there too.


    The South is so far ahead of the North in almost any development indicator that it is laughable. The cow-belt is truly horrendous but its not like places like Haryana or Rajasthan are covering themselves in glory. The hill states do okay because they're small and have tons of natural resources and Punjab is doing well economically but they're also underperforming in a lot of social indicators.
    Gujarat and Maharasthra are getting on par with both of the South states in many factors and improving in education. Himachal isn't doing bad and the Eastern states having largely being ignored by the government haven't gone down like the cow belt regions thankfully. It's a pity to see the places where powerful empires rose and fell have become pathetic now.
    “When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."

  12. #8992

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    It would have been better to embrace the more nebulous "Ottoman" identity, but the death of that empire was very traumatic and bloody. This is not something Iran had to endure, even regarding the 79' revolution and 80's war with Iraq. A fairly inclusive Persian identity has never really been questioned or tarnished like the Ottoman one was (interpreted differently yes, obviously the Shah and Ayatollahs would not agree on the definition). Probably helps that "Persia" as a concept is very ancient and "Ottoman" was from like the 1300's.
    And there wasn't really any attempts to break away by minority groups in Iran. I'd say that not having large Christian minorities helped Iran a lot....but Kurds and Turks are both Muslim. And even both Sunni Muslim... so even that doesn't explain things.
    Another thing is that Turkey ended up with far more territory in 1923 than an ethnic Turkish state should have had. Almost the entire eastern third of what is now Turkey was more or less evenly divided between Armenians and Kurds. Not to mention the coastal regions with the Greeks, which you're covered already.

    BTW Iran has small Armenian, Azeri and Kurdish minorities. The Azeris, unlike the ones in nearby Azerbaijan, are Shia IIRC. I'm guessing their relatively smaller numbers compared to the Kurds in Turkey means they don't have enough mass to make their voice heard.

    Quote Originally Posted by xan View Post
    Just to add to that, the hostile political climate isn't bland persecution in any way. There were reservations put in government related jobs which uplifted many non-Brahmins, who were previously ignored, which caused the former to leave the state for better economical options. There wasn't any "militant" force of any sorts, at least not in the sense of brutal onces that happen in the North. The anti-Brahmanism was understandable considering the intense persecution the lower castes had to go through for generations but contrary to popular historical lower class uprisings, there was barely any violence involved here.
    I meant militant in their extreme views (rejection of Hinduism as a construct from North India and Tamil Brahmins as the representatives of that). Second, apart from the Naxal uprising, which is more of a class-struggle than a caste-struggle, lower-caste folks have asserted their rights in the North through the ballot box too. Most of the caste violence you hear about is upper caste former landowners flexing their muscles. The North's agricultural economy and fluid past with a host of invaders constantly changing lands made the society extremely feudal and hierarchical in such a way that the caste upheaval that democracy brought only resulted in the castes in the middle of the ladder (Yadavs) replacing the upper castes and continuing to oppress the extremely lower castes. Somewhat like Animal Farm, where the pigs replaced the humans and things continued as before. The Dravidian movement has only fractured internally in the late 80s / early 90s.

    Quote Originally Posted by xan View Post
    More importantly, anti-Hindi sentiments broke out resurrecting the Dravidian and linguistic sentiments which helped the political parties oust all of the national parties too.
    The Dravidian movement is much older than the anti-Hindi sentiment. It is, in its simplest form, glorification of traditional Tamil culture and identity in concert with a fervent hatred of anything north of the Narmada. Anti-brahminism, hatred of the Hindi language all fall in this.

    Quote Originally Posted by xan View Post
    Spoiler:

    The empires from North have never been able to capture the Southern kingdoms or sustain it for a significant time

    The Marathas

    http://www.mapsofindia.com/history/m...ingdom-map.jpg

    The Mughals

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...orical_Map.png

    The Guptas

    http://www.classzone.com/cz/books/ms...uptaempire.jpg

    The Mauryas

    http://mrspencer.info/wp-content/upl...-Asoka-Map.jpg

    Aaand.. history just repeats itself. This is the map of the Prime Minister elections that came up few years back

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...rteien.svg.png

    BJP could very well be a democratic version of the Maratha empire who have strikingly similar nationalistic views.
    I wish you would've mentioned the great Pulakesi II, who defeated the northern suzerain Harsha, or the great Cholas, who spread Indian culture across South-East Asia and made several incursions north.

    Quote Originally Posted by xan View Post
    It WAS the case long back but not anymore. Many are bland stereotypes that are propagated through movies and general misunderstanding of the southern region. I am not a Brahmin, my exact origin is near Kanyakumari and I could pass off as a typical "North Indian" any day. Generally yes there are many dark skinned people in the South but it has less to do with castes now.
    I'm glad to be wrong in this case.

    Quote Originally Posted by xan View Post
    Kerala has many fair skinned people from the coastal areas due to European mix centuries back.
    Most of these communities are either Brahmins (Nairs etc.) or Syriac Christians who used to be Brahmins. There is still a subtle caste-system among Kerala Christians with the fair-skinned Syriac Christians being more powerful than communities who've only converted during British Rule.

    Quote Originally Posted by xan View Post
    Gujarat and Maharasthra are getting on par with both of the South states in many factors and improving in education.
    Gujarat's health stats make for a sorry reading. Maharashtra's economic stats depend heavily on Bombay. Lest we forget, this is the state where farmer suicides have become an annual event.

    Quote Originally Posted by xan View Post
    Himachal isn't doing bad
    If we're clutching at straws, we can also add Uttarakhand to your tiny list.

    Quote Originally Posted by xan View Post
    Eastern states having largely being ignored by the government haven't gone down like the cow belt regions thankfully.
    Which ones? Bengal is a shithole. Assam is a shithole. None of the other states have much to write home about either (except for literacy rates and their treatment of women).

    Quote Originally Posted by xan View Post
    It's a pity to see the places where powerful empires rose and fell have become pathetic now.
    I've lived there and I feel no pity for them. These are folks who keep Lalu Yadav politically relevant.

  13. #8993

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by firelord111 View Post
    what gives turkey the right to bombard kords in syria doesnt bombarding another country mean war ?
    They are the second most powerful force in Nato. What do you really mean right/war in your question? Do you mean illegal by U.N rules? To be able to wage war on another country legally, you have to meet one or several conditions:
    1. The U.N give the right to do it. Very rare and as seen in the Libya case, the resolution gave them the right to make no flight zone, they destroyed the country and helped murder the president.
    2. The legal government of a country asking for it. Legal government does not necessarily mean good government. Mali calling for help from France.
    But you can do it illegally if you meet one of these conditions:
    1. Being the USA, enough said.
    2. Being Israel or Saudi Arabia. Being protected by the USA, they can pretty much do whatever they like, no human rights, nothing holds them. As an example, the war of the Saudi on the poorest country in the world Yemen and Israel wars on Gaza, Lebanon and Bombings on Syria.
    3. Being the second most powerful member of Nato, friend of the USA and having a genocidal crazy bastard as president: Turkey.
    Other than that, you'll get wrecked in a matter of hours or days.

  14. #8994
    UNTITLED xan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooldud View Post
    I meant militant in their extreme views (rejection of Hinduism as a construct from North India and Tamil Brahmins as the representatives of that). Second, apart from the Naxal uprising, which is more of a class-struggle than a caste-struggle, lower-caste folks have asserted their rights in the North through the ballot box too. Most of the caste violence you hear about is upper caste former landowners flexing their muscles. The North's agricultural economy and fluid past with a host of invaders constantly changing lands made the society extremely feudal and hierarchical in such a way that the caste upheaval that democracy brought only resulted in the castes in the middle of the ladder (Yadavs) replacing the upper castes and continuing to oppress the extremely lower castes. Somewhat like Animal Farm, where the pigs replaced the humans and things continued as before. The Dravidian movement has only fractured internally in the late 80s / early 90s.

    The Dravidian movement is much older than the anti-Hindi sentiment. It is, in its simplest form, glorification of traditional Tamil culture and identity in concert with a fervent hatred of anything north of the Narmada. Anti-brahminism, hatred of the Hindi language all fall in this.
    I think you are overestimating their views. Anti-brahminism isn't Anti-Hinduism. The non-brahmins were still Hindus who were casteist and yet, they were anti-brahmin. They just do not want to be dictated by minority Brahmins. Again, the more powerful the lower castes became it was evident that they needed a reason to oust the power of the minority upper caste Brahmins. Anti-Brahminism and anti-Hindi was an easy way for them to rise to power. Ideologies which were outcasted for decades don't take a rebirth for satisfying the ideologogy but for power! Even Kannadigas and Telugites had Dravidian fervor with them. They did not rise up because factions of it never had the power to oppose the ruling parties.

    The difference with the lower caste uprising in the South as compared to the North was that the lower castes in South progressed economically and politically far more than their northern counterparts. Each community had their own "sangams" which were basically private banks owned by rich lower caste members who helped in giving out loans to people of the same caste to give them a chance of entrepreneurial upliftment. It worked wonders as many people rose from the boom which helped them to lobby political parties and ultimately occupy vital positions in them. The steep rise of lower castes economically endangered the strong grasp held by the upper castes. Once the Dravidian movement kicked off again, they got support from all these newly formed groups which soon isolated the brahmins who were on top. And yes, most of the violence included the upper castes unable to handle the power given to lower castes as they started to revolt from their positions which ultimately concluded with the Dravidian parties winning the state elections.

    The North had another problem of several religious uprisings which hindered the rise of lower castes making it more difficult for them to come out of their poverty bases. Dravidian movement has been there for ages and for them religion isn't a barrier as much as how caste was. That's why there were mass conversions to Christianity in the South more than the North. People were more egoistical about their status in society than their religion

    I wish you would've mentioned the great Pulakesi II, who defeated the northern suzerain Harsha, or the great Cholas, who spread Indian culture across South-East Asia and made several incursions north.
    I could have mentioned hell lotta more people lol but that would have made a mess out of this thread. It's surprising that history books hardly give attention to the Cholas who were pretty much bossing over the Indian ocean and were requested protection from both the Chinese and the Persians to avoid piracy of trade during that time.

    Most of these communities are either Brahmins (Nairs etc.) or Syrian Christians who used to be Brahmins. There is still a subtle caste-system among Kerala Christians with the fair-skinned Syriac Christians being more powerful than communities who've only converted during British Rule.
    Hunh? Nairs weren't brahmins. They were from the Vaishyas and Kshatriyas (traders and warrior castes) who were together known as Nairs. They had all kinds of mixes EXCEPT brahmins. There is color discrimination but I don't think there are color oriented caste discrimination anymore there

    Gujarat's health stats make for a sorry reading. Maharashtra's economic stats depend heavily on Bombay. Lest we forget, this is the state where farmer suicides have become an annual event.
    Gujarat is one of the few places where growth is on the rise comparatively better than any other states. Even as per latest reports, albeit controversial, it eclipses even the Southern states in development (will post the link when I get it). Pune is another place which is opening up from their manufacturing base to more of an IT specific hub. Farmer suicides are prevalent in most of the states but yes its on a high rise in Maharashtra. The thing with that state is that there is a significant amount of changes ongoing due to the influx of manufacturing need. If the GST bill passes off, that will be one of the few states which will be gaining much of the benefits due to its extremely beneficial location (and Mumbai too of course)

    Which ones? Bengal is a shithole. Assam is a shithole. None of the other states have much to write home about either (except for literacy rates and their treatment of women).

    I've lived there and I feel no pity for them. These are folks who keep Lalu Yadav politically relevant.
    As I said, these states aren't worse than UP or Bihar in any ways but aren't better than the South states either. These states have constant Bangladeshi immigrants, Maoist threats and one of the most intimidating neighbor a country can have next to it leering upon them but yet has not gone down the drain. If the central gov't at least focuses something towards their direction, there will be a lot of scope towards improvement. Either case, they are definitely much better than UP and Bihar. Oh come on, are you saying that Bengal can be compared to UP? What are the chances of you getting shot at 7 o clock in the evening in Bengal as compared to ANY spot in UP lol. And as I was typing this post, red wedding shit like this happens there
    Last edited by xan; February 18th, 2016 at 03:47 AM.
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  15. #8995
    Discovered Stowaway Bugs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    As if the whole Flint problem wasn't already infuriating.

    http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...ater/80461288/

  16. #8996

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by cooldud View Post
    Another thing is that Turkey ended up with far more territory in 1923 than an ethnic Turkish state should have had. Almost the entire eastern third of what is now Turkey was more or less evenly divided between Armenians and Kurds. Not to mention the coastal regions with the Greeks, which you're covered already.
    That wouldn't be an issue if the nationalist drums hadn't been being banged so much, and Turkey formed on that basis. But the entire waning Ottoman period was drenched in that mindset, it started in the departing Balkan countries and eventually wormed into the Anatolian people too.
    There is some blame to the Greeks as well for what happened after WW1, but it was the same issue on their side. Same infection.
    The infection also effected Cyprus, calls for Enosis by the Greek Cypriots was one of the wedge issues that divided the Turks and Greeks so much on independence (not the only thing but a big one).
    One of the most optimistic aspects of Cypriot reunification is that Enosis is an absolutely dead idea. That a more unified sense of being people of the island has emerged since 1960, rather than just people of one's own group (though that damn sure exists still).
    BTW Iran has small Armenian, Azeri and Kurdish minorities.
    The Armenian minority is small yes. But the other two? Fair sized, especially the Azeris. AND geographically concentrated.
    As far as I'm aware the groups in Iran with some unrest and dislike to being there are soley Sunni groups. This means the Kurds and Baloch. But I don't think it's particularly terrible for them. Certainly they haven't faced the level of discrimination and violence they have in the other three Kurdistans. Not sure about the Baloch.
    There's even still a tiny Jewish minority in Iran too.
    The Azeris, unlike the ones in nearby Azerbaijan, are Shia IIRC. I'm guessing their relatively smaller numbers compared to the Kurds in Turkey means they don't have enough mass to make their voice heard.
    No the former Soviet Azerbaijan is also Shia...unless you're meaning to say they've become so secularized in the Soviet period that they're hardly observant anymore. Which would seem to be true (I think it's the least religious Muslim state on earth, even the Onion made fun of this in their atlas lol). They're kind of like the Muslim Czech Republic or something. But I've never seen anything to indicate Iranian Azeris are mistreated or marginalized, in fact I think they're pretty well assimilated into mainstream Iranian culture. The current supreme leader is even part Azeri in origin. Azeris are essentially Turkified Iranians for all intents and purposes so the culture isn't very different, and the lack of romantic nationalism in the area means I don't think anyone really cares to force a divide between them and the mass of Persian speaking Iranians. Hell Iran's modern history was mostly historically nomadic Turkic speaking culturally Persian groups ruling as the monarchs (like the Qajars and Safavids), not necessarily Azeris but the same basic idea. Iran I believe is quite comfortable with this unlike China.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokerSan View Post
    1. Being the second most powerful member of Nato, friend of the USA and having a genocidal crazy bastard as president: Turkey.
    Other than that, you'll get wrecked in a matter of hours or days.
    You're not following the conflict very well if this is your reading.
    The Turks have officially blamed the YPG now, which is the Syrian Kurdish group itself.
    That group is a major US ally right now, that group for all intents and purposes IS our ISIS strategy. Practically our army against them, we even built an air strip in their territory.
    This is pissing off Erdogan intensely, and now conveniently they are to blame for a terrorist attack.
    Frankly I don't believe it. I would believe the PKK, but specifically the YPG? It's absurd.
    Everything going on right now is evidence of a huge wedge between Turkey and the US. I think Erdogan is trying to throw down the gauntlet to Obama with this attack. Have the US make a choice, and either way he no doubt intends to strike the YPG now with this casus belli.
    I don't like to throw out false flag accusations. You know I'm heavily skeptical of such things. But Erdogan is a slimy slimy power hungry man. Hell I still can't get over his aggressive paternalism to the new Turkish Cypriot president and how nakedly stupid and authoritarian he was toward that guy.
    I would absolutely believe he would either fake a bombing, or at least fake the accusation of it (hell how easy would it be for ISIS to bomb Turkey and expect Erdogan to take it out on the Kurds?).

    As for going into Syria....well really anyone can do that. It doesn't really exist right now. It's divided into so many pieces, and the legal government is so genocidal I doubt there is general respect for their claims at this point anyway.
    Hezbollah, Russia, US, France, UK, Iran, Turkey, ISIS, Syrian Kurds, five dozen rebels groups...join the party.

  17. #8997

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    You're not following the conflict very well if this is your reading.
    The Turks have officially blamed the YPG now, which is the Syrian Kurdish group itself.
    That group is a major US ally right now, that group for all intents and purposes IS our ISIS strategy. Practically our army against them, we even built an air strip in their territory.
    This is pissing off Erdogan intensely, and now conveniently they are to blame for a terrorist attack.
    Frankly I don't believe it. I would believe the PKK, but specifically the YPG? It's absurd.
    Everything going on right now is evidence of a huge wedge between Turkey and the US. I think Erdogan is trying to throw down the gauntlet to Obama with this attack. Have the US make a choice, and either way he no doubt intends to strike the YPG now with this casus belli.
    I don't like to throw out false flag accusations. You know I'm heavily skeptical of such things. But Erdogan is a slimy slimy power hungry man. Hell I still can't get over his aggressive paternalism to the new Turkish Cypriot president and how nakedly stupid and authoritarian he was toward that guy.
    I would absolutely believe he would either fake a bombing, or at least fake the accusation of it (hell how easy would it be for ISIS to bomb Turkey and expect Erdogan to take it out on the Kurds?)....
    I am totally aware of that and I agree to that. And I actually think it's a false flag operation. I was answering why countries like: Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Israel can decide to wage war on other countries on their own without any problem.


    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    As for going into Syria....well really anyone can do that. It doesn't really exist right now. It's divided into so many pieces, and the legal government is so genocidal I doubt there is general respect for their claims at this point anyway. Hezbollah, Russia, US, France, UK, Iran, Turkey, ISIS, Syrian Kurds, five dozen rebels groups...join the party.
    The regime there is maybe genocidal, the country may be divided, but there is only one president over there who is known to the whole world. There is only one entity that is present in the U.N that is known as Syria. We may have some sympathy to other groups, it does not make them governments, just like the Taliban in Afghanistan or the Palestinians in Israel, these are not considered governments.


    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Hezbollah, Russia, Iran...
    These are the ones to whom the legal government has asked for help, and it is legal by U.N standards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    US, France, UK, Turkey, Israel
    Yeah, USA and friends. As I also said, these can do whatever they want because of that friendship.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Syrian Kurds...
    Syria is their homeland, they must fight for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    ISIS...
    These are the spawns of Turkey and Saudi Arabia. Who are friends with the US which gives them basically the right to do anything and everything.

  18. #8998

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokerSan View Post
    The regime there is maybe genocidal, the country may be divided, but there is only one president over there who is known to the whole world. There is only one entity that is present in the U.N that is known as Syria. We may have some sympathy to other groups, it does not make them governments, just like the Taliban in Afghanistan or the Palestinians in Israel, these are not considered governments.
    Taliban was for all intents and purposes the government until the 2001 invasion. They controlled the vast majority of the country. A country which honestly didn't really have much government to recognize since at least the start of the 90's.
    The fact that it's reached cross border conflict in multiple different ways is also a factor. ISIS and the Kurdish conflict both have this nature. As well as the huge influx of refugees Assad has been creating, which directly effect many many countries (especially Lebanon, Jordan, and Turkey).
    He's even buzzed Cyprus with jets at one point.

    These are the ones to whom the legal government has asked for help, and it is legal by U.N standards.
    A great many things illegal by UN standards have been occurring since the start by and for the government. There isn't a "legal side" here and hasn't been for awhile.

    Yeah, USA and friends. As I also said, these can do whatever they want because of that friendship.
    You say this as if this is the only case. Iran has been supplying support in Yemen where the force they support is not the internationally recognized one.
    Likewise Russia in Ukraine.

    Syria is their homeland, they must fight for it.
    But they receive cross border support and aid from the Turkish Kurds as well. Even some Iraqi Kurds.

    These are the spawns of Turkey and Saudi Arabia. Who are friends with the US which gives them basically the right to do anything and everything.
    Are you saying ISIS has the right to do anything and everything? Because when allied with Al-Nusra they may have received Saudi and Turkish money? Before they broke off and metastasized? What?

  19. #8999

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Taliban was for all intents and purposes the government until the 2001 invasion. They controlled the vast majority of the country. A country which honestly didn't really have much government to recognize since at least the start of the 90's. The fact that it's reached cross border conflict in multiple different ways is also a factor. ISIS and the Kurdish conflict both have this nature. As well as the huge influx of refugees Assad has been creating, which directly effect many many countries (especially Lebanon, Jordan, and Turkey).
    He's even buzzed Cyprus with jets at one point.
    I don't understand your point. I am not talking about how complicated the situation is, I was just answering to a simple question: what gives turkey the right to bombard kords in syria doesnt bombarding another country mean war ?


    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    A great many things illegal by UN standards have been occurring since the start by and for the government. There isn't a "legal side" here and hasn't been for awhile.
    Yes I agree, legal does not mean clean or right or good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Likewise Russia in Ukraine.
    Yes, illegal is illegal. When did I say that Russia is doing good thing in Ukraine. I also gave an example of a Nato country going to war in another country legally. Those are just example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    But they receive cross border support and aid from the Turkish Kurds as well. Even some Iraqi Kurds.
    But still they are fighting in their home country and they are rightfully doing so. I don't understand. South Korea is having help from the USA to protect themselves from another aggressive entity, are they wrong? Really I don't get it. If people in Cyprus would want to fight against Turkey and have help from other European countries or any other countries, would that be wrong?


    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Are you saying ISIS has the right to do anything and everything? Because when allied with Al-Nusra they may have received Saudi and Turkish money? Before they broke off and metastasized? What?
    Isis is now is out of control. But it has been put their and helped by some governments. Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Israel and Jordan. You make difference between terrorist assholes, I don't. They are the same people who have one only job: destroy non-religious based countries and establish sunni/shia war.

  20. #9000

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