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Thread: Random News Article Discussion II

  1. #7781

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by maxterdexter View Post
    So, in the end, was ISIS actually armed by USA? Did they steal from people armed by USA?
    you could argue that Japan is supplying them too in a way
    http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ry?id=34266539


  2. #7782

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokerSan View Post

    No, freeing people from slavery is in the holy text, not enslaving people. What these animals are doing is completely inhuman. Just think a little bit, Islam has been around for more than 14 centuries. Even if there were some wars between muslims and others and between muslims against each other, there was really a peaceful cohabitations with other ethnic groups. As a simple example, is Syria, there is this Christians people who still speak the language of the Christ. They were there until these animals came even though the majority of people in Syria are muslim. The same goes for all muslim countries. Things changed in the recent decades, with the problems in Israel/Palestine and then Afghanistan and with the help of the Wahabi doctrine promoted by Saudi Arabia.
    This is a good point to bring up again.
    Recent rises in extremism relative to history are evident in the fact that these minority groups like the Assyrians and Yazidi exist at all where they do.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by xan View Post
    The difference between Al Qaeda and ISIS is that ISIS interprets lot of things from the Quran (Courtesy to their higher ups who dictate based on their own form of theology unlike Al Qaeda's higher ups). The problem is, most of the holy books present in all the major religions have something bad in their books

    Sample quote from the Bible for pro-slavery



    As per the quote the Bible clearly supports slavery but multiple statements in it condone it of course. The problem is, people pick up statements like these and interpret it to the way they want it. Lunatic theologians or more specifically people like Abu Bakr (he has a PhD in Islamic studies) utilize such verses to their own needs. Classic book thumping fundamentalism. To know more about the Islamic view about slavery, it will take quite a lot of time to understand what was mentioned due to the ambiguity, the time when it was written and the reason behind why it was written that way

    More importantly, we are at a point in time where human ethics aren't strictly guided by their holy books anymore. No matter what any book says, it doesn't make sense to justify any sort of wrongdoing unless people just want to enjoy hurting others which ISIS clearly likes wanking off to
    Yeah, American Islamophobes love taking darker passages and things from the Quaran that have their contradicitions and interpretations and act like say...for instance...Southern aristocrats never ever used the bible as a central justification for chattel slavery of black people :I

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by maxterdexter View Post
    So, in the end, was ISIS actually armed by USA? Did they steal from people armed by USA?
    Theft mostly. Particularly from the Iraqi army who of course had been funded, trained and supplied by the US prior to our pull out.

    When ISIS took Mosul and other stuff they mostly did so without fighting the Iraqi army, who mostly ran away immediately. In the process lots of military goodies got left behind and welp...
    There's a brutal irony to it that goes without saying.

  3. #7783

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    If anybody is interested, I came across this article a few weeks ago (forgot where I found it) and it talks about Islam before Mohammed, how he changed it, and how ISIS is trying to interpret it

    http://religiondispatches.org/why-it...-isis-islamic/


  4. #7784

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by taboo View Post
    If anybody is interested, I came across this article a few weeks ago (forgot where I found it) and it talks about Islam before Mohammed, how he changed it, and how ISIS is trying to interpret it http://religiondispatches.org/why-it...-isis-islamic/
    IIRC doesn't the quran contain many verses of violence? If Islam was as peaceful as claimed, wouldn't the extremists be extremely peaceful? If the religion is based on interpretation then neither side would be wrong since there's no way of knowing the true context. I don't see any reason to defend this religion. Yes we shouldn't assume that all muslims are like ISIS, but criticising Islam isn't the same as criticising all muslims.

  5. #7785

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    So if I understood that right, the reason for these fuckwits to wage war on the world is because they believe a God they don't know if it even exists for real will grant them its "divine support", in spite of the logistic and military abysmal superiority there's with the West and most Middle-Eastern countries. Is that right?
    3DS FC: 0087 - 2971 - 9910

  6. #7786

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Nekketsu View Post
    So if I understood that right, the reason for these fuckwits to wage war on the world is because they believe a God they don't know if it even exists for real will grant them its "divine support", in spite of the logistic and military abysmal superiority there's with the West and most Middle-Eastern countries. Is that right?
    They are just sadistic shit heads who nitpick parts of Quran and Hadith that justify their murderous killing spree's.

    Some of them might be just so brainwashed that they believe they are following god's will and if they get killed they will be martyrs and given eternity at paradise with lewt chicks and all mortal pleasures, its one of main promises of all monotheistic religions... its that most religious people believe afterlife is a prize followed by all the good deeds you perform during mortal life, its just interpretation what is 'good' in eyes of a god.

    Also most people (including muslims) would not hurt or kill 'non-believers' because they think that god would want them to...commonsense after all...

  7. #7787

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    If Islam was as peaceful as claimed, wouldn't the extremists be extremely peaceful?
    By this logic Sri Lanka and Burma should be bastions of peace.

  8. #7788

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by taboo View Post
    you could argue that Japan is supplying them too in a way
    http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ry?id=34266539
    It's funny, if you go back few pages, you'll see people laughing at me when I said that these Toyota vehicles is a very big issue. Well, it seems not a laughing matter at all for the US officials, for the Australian, Iraqi and the Japanese. A more funnier thing, western countries can apply sanctions and penalties on a freaking U.N security council permanent member like Russia. They can do it easily on Iran, but not on a bunch of animals, where all the surrounding countries are allies: Turkey, Jordan, Israel or enemies to ISIS: Iran, Liban. A year ago, if I am not mistaken, a penalty of 10 Billion $ has been applied to a French bank for dealing with Iran. All French car manufacturers has been obliged to leave the Iranian market, and they were leaders on the market, but ISIS can have them good TOYOTA Pickups without any one knowing where the come from. The not so funny joke. You can believe this only if you know western countries or their democratic friends in Qatar and Saudi Arabia, but if you know little about other African or Arab countries, you'll know that even for those countries, it is difficult to have their police or military use such High-end cars.

  9. #7789

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Nekketsu View Post
    So if I understood that right, the reason for these fuckwits to wage war on the world is because they believe a God they don't know if it even exists for real will grant them its "divine support", in spite of the logistic and military abysmal superiority there's with the West and most Middle-Eastern countries. Is that right?
    Don't forget the promised 40 virgins in heaven.

  10. #7790

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by KageKageKing View Post
    Don't forget the promised 40 virgins in heaven.
    That shit is weak... if you follow one true Flying Spaghetti Monster you get to eat all the spaghetti carbonara you want in afterlife... getting 40 bored women nagging at you seems hell to me.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

  11. #7791

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    IIRC doesn't the quran contain many verses of violence?
    Yes, it contains verses about war and violence, but if you want a honest idea, you must know that always before or after those verses, you have conditions that must apply, one of them, always defend yourselves and no be the aggressor.


    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    wouldn't the extremists be extremely peaceful?
    No, because they only see the violent parts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    I don't see any reason to defend this religion.
    You don't need to defend it, but this applies to all religions, and not only religions. Ideologies as well. Did you know that the crusades are wars waged and asked in the name of God by the pope? Do you know, that Isreal is a religious idea, that means that people say that that land is rightfully theirs and given to them by God? Do you know that even in the US military right now, God is one of the motives? Do you know that World War 2 had over 50 to 70 million people dead and that the idea behind it has nothing to do with Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    Yes we shouldn't assume that all muslims are like ISIS, but criticising Islam isn't the same as criticising all muslims.
    No, but at least keep in mind that the main victims of these animals are Muslims themselves. In western countries, we talk about hundreds, which always tragic, even for only one person. But in muslim countries we talk about hundreds of thousands.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Nekketsu View Post
    So if I understood that right, the reason for these fuckwits to wage war on the world is because they believe a God they don't know if it even exists for real will grant them its "divine support", in spite of the logistic and military abysmal superiority there's with the West and most Middle-Eastern countries. Is that right?
    This is not exclusive to them. All people who fight or fought in the name of any god, think they have "divine support". Even ancient Greeks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nekketsu View Post
    in spite of the logistic and military abysmal superiority there's with the West and most Middle-Eastern countries. Is that right?
    No it's not right. It is explicitly said in the Quran to always prepare military resources to defend one selves. Do you know that in Quran, it is strictly forbidden to drink alcohol, moreover, it is forbidden to produce it, to transport it, to sell it, to deal with it at all, But Taliban and terrorists in Algeria deal heavily with drugs, do you really think that they can find any justification for it? No. They are a bunch of animals who do what they do, and if they can find some shady justification here and there, they do it.

    Just take a look at all these sad attacks in France these last years, not days, but years. All the culprits were found to have heavy violence pasts, with drug dealing and armed robberies? They do not need any of Quran verses to do what they do.

  12. #7792

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    IIRC doesn't the quran contain many verses of violence? If Islam was as peaceful as claimed, wouldn't the extremists be extremely peaceful? If the religion is based on interpretation then neither side would be wrong since there's no way of knowing the true context. I don't see any reason to defend this religion. Yes we shouldn't assume that all muslims are like ISIS, but criticising Islam isn't the same as criticising all muslims.

    First off, using websites like Jihadwatch and others of the like will give you a list of miscontrued, copy-pasted, poorly translated versions of Quranic verses which all seem to paint the religion as a violent one. Muslims don't read website lists. We read the Quran itself to get the right meaning, context and comprehension. Not only that but Muslim scholars have been writing commentaries on the Quran for thousands of years. Verses, letters, even the placing of points and spaces have been pored over through the centuries.Therefore where a casual reader who sees such a list might see verses of violence, a Muslim would see verses describing the rules of Justified Defence. For example one of the most famous online examples of misquoting is verse 2:191 which reads:

    "And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for persecution and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith."
    However what is omitted is the full context where this verse occurs. The actual passage reads less than an exhortation to massacre and more to a principle of Just War:

    "Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for persecution and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith.

    But if they cease, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear (the punishment of) God, and know that God is with those who restrain themselves." (2:190 -2194)

    In a nutshell, the Passage is saying that if Muslims are attacked it is incumbent upon us to defend ourselves but within limits (such as no fighting in the Sacred Mosque or during the Sacred Month if possible) but one must fight with conviction until the enemy stops, sues for peace or whatever. Then we have to cease as well. That's it. It isn't a license to go around waging some global jihad or killing every infidel or putting them under subjugation. By and large the vast majority of the 1.5 billion Muslims that are around seem to understand this very well. These are just basic understandings of course. As said earlier, you have a plethora of opinions, analyses, treatises and commentaries from centuries ago to the present day, each with their own unique perspective on the issue.

    Your second point that since everything is based on interpretation equals there is no right answer misses the point. The right answer is the one that works in the circumstances that have occurred. A seventh century understanding of the Quran and the Sunna when people rode camels and horses to work and thought weekly bathes a luxury may not be suited to the 21st century. The Scripture needs to be reinterpreted and re-adapted to current times. Look at the US Constitution, a document thats about 250 years old and yet, at one time it was used to uphold slavery, then later the Court reinterpreted it to say slavery was unconstitutional and illegal. The Quran is well over 1500 years old. There will be many different understandings of what the Quran says or means in any given situation. It is also only one of the seven sources of Islamic Law or Sharia. It is not just about reinterpreting the Quran to suit modern times but bringing along the entire edifice that is the Sharia with it.

    Finally, this isn't a defence of the religion, merely clarifying a complicated issue. This is just to highlight to anyone who bothers reading that your assumption isn't shared by Muslims, the people who actually read the Quran in the first place.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nekketsu View Post
    So if I understood that right, the reason for these fuckwits to wage war on the world is because they believe a God they don't know if it even exists for real will grant them its "divine support", in spite of the logistic and military abysmal superiority there's with the West and most Middle-Eastern countries. Is that right?

    Abu Bakar Baghdadi and his ilk are opportunists using religion and the desperation of the suffering people of the Middle east and the sympathies of young, foolish Muslims elsewhere to make a naked power grab for land and wealth and yes, women. The ISIL version of Islam is a filthy perversion which uses the most extremely bigoted, narrow-minded interpretations of Islamic scripture and law, all subverted to serve Baghadi's rapacious thirst for power. It's a political ploy masquerading as a death cult pretending to be a religious movement.

    His vision is death to anyone who does not acknowledge him as Caliph, whether they be Shia or Sunni, moderates or Wahhabists, even al-Qaeda and the other jihadists wont be spared. It's what you get when your high on a power trip.
    Last edited by Raistlin; November 16th, 2015 at 12:04 PM. Reason: LOL knew there was something wrong there

  13. #7793

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    IIRC doesn't the quran contain many verses of violence? If Islam was as peaceful as claimed, wouldn't the extremists be extremely peaceful? If the religion is based on interpretation then neither side would be wrong since there's no way of knowing the true context. I don't see any reason to defend this religion. Yes we shouldn't assume that all muslims are like ISIS, but criticising Islam isn't the same as criticising all muslims.
    And the bible is full of Jesus saying "love thy neighbor". Its still referred to when people want to to harass minorities and take away women's health rights.

    Asshole extremists are going to find what they want to find to support their view, regardless of how good intentioned the source may be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nekketsu View Post
    So if I understood that right, the reason for these fuckwits to wage war on the world is because they believe a God they don't know if it even exists for real will grant them its "divine support", in spite of the logistic and military abysmal superiority there's with the West and most Middle-Eastern countries. Is that right?
    Yes, like most religions, the extremists start wars because they want to. Its not exclusive to this religion or that one. Christianity has started plenty of shit too.

    But atheists don't get to be off the hook either with their moral superiority, they cause shit too.

    Everyone's an asshole, just in different ways. You can't singlehandedly just point to a philosophy that *billions* live by, for centuries, distorted by a handful, and say "that's just awful, and everyone that follows it is awful."

    (The 72 virgins thing IS silly though... wouldn't you rather have women that know what they're doing?)
    Quote Originally Posted by Shandian View Post
    That shit is weak... if you follow one true Flying Spaghetti Monster you get to eat all the spaghetti carbonara you want in afterlife... getting 40 bored women nagging at you seems hell to me.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
    I used to be really amused by the flying spaghetti monster jokes.

    Except every single time its referenced... EVERY TIME... its by someone being an asshole.

    So it stopped being funny.
    Last edited by Robby; November 16th, 2015 at 12:07 PM.
    To support Viz hosting all Jump manga for FREE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
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  14. #7794

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokerSan View Post
    It's funny, if you go back few pages, you'll see people laughing at me when I said that these Toyota vehicles is a very big issue.
    I'm pretty sure that taboo was (still) joking when she posted that.

    As has already been mentioned by others, the way ISIS acquired much of their equipment is by stealing and looting from the Iraq army, which was indeed supplied by western powers. I don't think anyone is really dense enough to think that ISIS is being given these things by the people who directly oppose them.

  15. #7795
    Banned Rank: Failed Mutineer
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    No one has gone to war over atheism though.


    yet.

  16. #7796

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by benjamminbrown View Post
    I'm pretty sure that taboo was (still) joking when she posted that.
    This may be true, but the US officials, Japanese, Iraqi and Australians think the opposite. And if you read the article, you'll see that they are not spoils at all. And as I said, it is only "not issue" if you think that having such quantity is normal in such countries and territories.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Taggerung View Post
    No one has gone to war over atheism though.
    yet.
    Well if you think about the victims of communism, then may be...

  17. #7797
    Banned Rank: Failed Mutineer
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    The victims of communism were victims of communism. Mao and Stalin didn't suppress religion in the name of atheism. They suppressed it the name of communism.

  18. #7798
    ウサギ joekido the Second's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Taggerung View Post
    No one has gone to war over atheism though.


    yet.
    No one needs too. While I believe in God, all people have the right to believe what they like. We should just respect people
    Currently writing a book

    https://www.facebook.com/redjoekido

  19. #7799

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Chicago rapper Lil Reese ( aka the grim reaper ) is daring ISIS to try and shoot us up while posting up guns:

    http://kollegekidd.com/news/lil-rees...s-on-hit-list/

    So does 600breezy by commenting on instagram that 'we already at war we been ready':

    https://twitter.com/145Fatz/status/666322696742006784


    we're called Chiraq for a reason boa!

  20. #7800

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Wasn't hitler atheist? He used religious leaders but I'm pretty sure he wasn't into Jesus

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    The great atheist war of 2050, also known as the Vape Wars


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