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Thread: Random News Article Discussion II

  1. #2401

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    The pointlessness and how baffled i am at this thread right now will be expressed through Butoh Dance as i would be banned if i used words.

    Working thru some stuff. Dunno how long i will be here.

  2. #2402

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Nothing of note anyway, but how women are viewed in the workforce and especially in a job industry people skew towards males? Now that's the news, and GamerGate is inadvertently shining a light on it in this whole...what do you call it? Controversy?
    It really depends on who you ask.

    Some say that it sucks, others say it's not different than how guys are treated (which is part of where the #NotYourShield tag came from).

    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    I'm not even saying GG is out to demoralize or demean women but that whole problem (which is a serious problem) is where the attention is at now and it's a good thing people are speaking up about it. Just in general.
    Their attention is focused on corruption in gaming journalism.

    Part of the problem is that some people are taking any criticism or harassment to be solely because of their gender (like Anita Sarkeesian and her Tropes vs. Women in Games videos, for example: She makes a lot of good points, but twists examples in games and steals artwork and footage while doing so. Not cool).

  3. #2403

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    I've posted screenshots and links to interviews and articles covering leaked documents. What more can I do?
    Find another term to use besides GamerGate


    Oh wait, nobody liked the hastag 'GameEthics'


  4. #2404

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
    It really depends on who you ask.

    Some say that it sucks, others say it's not different than how guys are treated (which is part of where the #NotYourShield tag came from).



    Their attention is focused on corruption in gaming journalism.

    Part of the problem is that some people are taking any criticism or harassment to be solely because of their gender (like Anita Sarkeesian and her Tropes vs. Women in Games videos, for example: She makes a lot of good points, but twists examples in games and steals artwork and footage while doing so. Not cool).
    Moral panics are a great and healthy way of dealing with problems, especially they do not ever involve unspoken motives overly targeting some minority demographic or another.

  5. #2405
    Борітеся поборете Lef's Avatar
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    If Anita was male, would the treatment/harrasment/threats really be any different? I find it hard to believe it's strictly because of her gender.

  6. #2406

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
    That's the problem with it being mostly anonymous and unorganized.
    Same problem as occupy wall street had was that the collective voice eventually succumbed to noise, but the direction that the movement is going as is, is not looking too good.

    Not excusing it, but there's nothing we can really do about it besides calling out the people we see doing it.
    Which is fine. I mean then you just do a general boycott with a main egregious encounter, but then you take a unified stance with actual problems that you want addressed rather than "could you please be a bit less corrupt?"

    Again, a clear message as to what they want rather than a broad and vague message would be more powerful than just a general boycott

    Wouldn't matter if they went crawling back. It would be held over their heads for a long time.
    For years people have been holding it over their heads. Worse is that gamers have proven to the industry that they have no idea what they want. Who cares if they hold it over their heads?

    Multiple sites colluding and publishing multiple "gamers are dead" articles all on the same day. Having relationships with companies and not reporting things even when it could be a danger to consumers. Not saying when there's a conflict of interest. Stuff like that.
    Really, none of what you mentioned is anything new, and I don't really think that much has changed for gamer's opinions in the past, even let's say seven years (which is a good timeframe for most businesses). I would even say that with places like GiantBomb and other smaller sites, youtube reviews, etc, there are even more options than ever before for people to opt to use.

    Boycott -> Sites lose revenue -> Either they shape up and get their acts together (thus getting back support), or they sink.

    Capitalism, baby.
    Except as you yourself pointed out, there's an incredible amount of noise due to the nature of it being an anonymous brigade. And there are plenty of sites that, if people were sick of the "corruption", why not go there instead?

    (Also, this stuff's been explained in the some of the stuff I've linked. Could you look at it? It might answer some questions before you ask them so I won't have to keep typing up so many responses.)
    The reason why we keep saying it is because the answers on the sites aren't satisfactory.

    Could you explain what you mean by actual implications? I'm a bit fuzzy on it and I don't wanna misunderstand.
    As in actual laws passed. Things that have far reaching impact on the industry such as Jack Thompson's crusade to get more stringent checks on video games, and legally it also sets a precedent that can be quoted in future cases and litigation.



    He's gotten death and rape threats, though (but not one for a school shooting).
    Rape threats, really?

  7. #2407

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Hermit View Post
    Rape threats, really?
    To be fair, if you're a widely, publically hated figure, I would assume you get just about every generic threat around......especially since people get rape threats just for beating some immature asshole in a MP game.

    As far as the movement, haven't been paying much attention to it, but it seems to be doing much more harm than good. It certainly doesn't help when its not organized at all meaning any anonymous assholes can use it for whatever they want to. Also, has there been a large outcry from #GamerGate decrying all the threats? If its not in large part about demonizing women, it seems like it'd be a good idea to separate itself from that.

  8. #2408
    Voici La Chévre Wagomu's Avatar
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    The whole GamerGate movement has been scapegoating women as a group from the start, both on the journalism end and in the ridiculous identity politics. The very abstract of the movement is tainted with misogyny. If you really care about stopping corruption in game journalism, distance yourself from that movement and start off on a better foot. Organize under a separate banner with a clearer mission statement that does not threaten women. Do not cling to a diseased movement just because it's convenient.

    I can't fully buy the sincerity of the anti-corruption outrage from GamerGate, though. Is there any gamer that wasn't aware of corruption in, say, IGN? Fuck, IGN's corruption is so familiar, it's become memetic. IGN has declined a lot in popularity lately, but is still one of the biggest gaming websites out there. Yet the anger didn't spark until a scorned ex started posting about his former lover's sex life.

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  9. #2409

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Quote Originally Posted by taboo View Post
    Find another term to use besides GamerGate

    Oh wait, nobody liked the hastag 'GameEthics'
    What difference would it make?

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Moral panics are a great and healthy way of dealing with problems, especially they do not ever involve unspoken motives overly targeting some minority demographic or another.
    And all minorities are totally a hivemind who always feel jilted by da big bad white man who always has a supah seekrit objective of oppressing them. Always. Always.

    Wait- what's that? A minority doesn't feel constantly oppressed? And they agree with this movement?!



    Quote Originally Posted by Lef View Post
    If Anita was male, would the treatment/harrasment/threats really be any different? I find it hard to believe it's strictly because of her gender.
    If she was male, she'd have already been drawn and quartered. The victim card isn't as effective when your male, unfortunately. :/

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Hermit View Post
    Same problem as occupy wall street had was that the collective voice eventually succumbed to noise, but the direction that the movement is going as is, is not looking too good.
    Really? I think it's going quite swimmingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Hermit View Post
    Which is fine. I mean then you just do a general boycott with a main egregious encounter, but then you take a unified stance with actual problems that you want addressed rather than "could you please be a bit less corrupt?"

    Again, a clear message as to what they want rather than a broad and vague message would be more powerful than just a general boycott
    General goals include limiting conflicts of interest, transparency when there are conflicts of interest, and not hiding things that could really hurt the customers just because they have a relationship with the developer.

    But one thing that would come up in those threads when people were trying to organize clear goals is that when you give those people clear things you want, they'll try and negotiate it down (which would render it pointless).

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Hermit View Post
    For years people have been holding it over their heads. Worse is that gamers have proven to the industry that they have no idea what they want. Who cares if they hold it over their heads?
    Que?

    What I meant was that these journalists and SJW-types would hold it over Intel's head. What're you talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Hermit View Post
    Except as you yourself pointed out, there's an incredible amount of noise due to the nature of it being an anonymous brigade. And there are plenty of sites that, if people were sick of the "corruption", why not go there instead?
    Because 1. These are some of the biggest gaming sites on the net, and 2. Smaller gaming sites have been hacked for having even a moderate article on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Hermit View Post
    The reason why we keep saying it is because the answers on the sites aren't satisfactory.
    But did you go through them (as in, really read them and not just skim)?

    I'm not trying to come across as one of those "UGH JUST EDUCATE YOURSELF, YOU SHITLORD" types, but there's a lot of information and only so many hours in the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Hermit View Post
    As in actual laws passed. Things that have far reaching impact on the industry such as Jack Thompson's crusade to get more stringent checks on video games, and legally it also sets a precedent that can be quoted in future cases and litigation.
    I guess a better question would be: what actual laws could get passed because of it?

    Sexism in the workplace is already illegal, most big gaming sites and platforms have rules against harrassment.

    Maybe stricter laws against cyberstalking and threats? That'd be good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Hermit View Post
    Rape threats, really?
    Apparently.

  10. #2410

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  11. #2411

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    Working thru some stuff. Dunno how long i will be here.

  12. #2412

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
    If she was male, she'd have already been drawn and quartered. The victim card isn't as effective when your male, unfortunately. :/
    I was reading along respectfully disagreeing until now but LOLOL.
    I think Wagomu's last post really said it best.

    ...Wait, sorry- this one part was good in an actual good way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
    Maybe stricter laws against cyberstalking and threats? That'd be good.

    EDIT: Also, it's eerie how much this temper tantrum of a list (http://makealist.com/content/quinnga...e-boycott-list) is reminiscent of McCarthy-era blacklisting. People who voiced single opinions about the topic, once, are on here, and the kool-aid drinkers are being told to boycott them forever. That's not a rational attack on corruption- that's a frothing-at-the-mouth kneejerk paranoia trip. Also note that the list links to Return of Kings as part of the "proof" that A.S. faked anything (already factually disproven), which indisputably strips the author of his ability to claim to be a non-misogynist, for anyone who knows anything about RoK.

  13. #2413

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II

    ^ Ditto with triple C

  14. #2414

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
    Gamergate rhetoric
    Quote Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
    Gamergate rhetoric

    I know I won't change your mind and if you frequent 8chan, you will probably tell them about trying to red pill us and that I am a blue pill shill, but just hear me out.


    The Gamergate (/gg/) "consumer revolt" started with vitriol back when it was still "Five Guys Burgers and Lies." Eron Gjoni is not sorry for his part in sparking the "movement" nor the damage he has done to all hurt by the shitstorm that he helped start. As a leaderless, anonymous collective /gg/ will have ineffectual traction to implement the big changes they may want. Without a strong direction and a detailed mission plan, all gamergate is doing is flailing about until it tires itself out and the members go their separate ways. As far as I can tell from the time I've spent scrolling through pages of chatlogs, archives, articles, twitter feeds, and general bullshit, the movement has done more harm than good.


    The harassment of Zoe Quinn (LW1), Anita Sarkeesian (LW2), and Brianna Wu (LW3) has to stop. It is not constructive toward your cause and if /gg/ wanted to distance themselves from this sort of thing they would express sympathy during their time of crisis and not antagonism. I know you may believe that the donation to The Fine Young Capalists (who are awesome btw) was a major win or that the Breibart article exposed the true problems. Right now in the boards, they are telling you that the media is running out of ammunition and to bunker down. This is all to keep you within their group and to have you perceive all outside the movement as a threat. Ask yourself, do you really believe that there is a huge media conspiracy and that everyone on this list is part of a SJW plot? Now if you want to continue strive against corruption in journalism, more power to you. A few ideas off the top of my head being; help fund investigative journalism on the subject, support a documentary on the subject,or even help start a better, cleaner movement to combat corruption. However, if you want to continue to pretend that /gg/ is blameless in the harassment of multiple human beings who did not deserve that kind of wrath, then you will continue to be part of the problem, not the solution.
    Last edited by Blagtastic; October 16th, 2014 at 09:28 PM. Reason: Errors

  15. #2415
    is Stolen Silence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wagomu View Post
    There's a great lighthearted vibe around here, because no matter how serious we might get, we're all together because of some magical pirate.

  16. #2416

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wagomu View Post
    The whole GamerGate movement has been scapegoating women as a group from the start, both on the journalism end and in the ridiculous identity politics. The very abstract of the movement is tainted with misogyny. If you really care about stopping corruption in game journalism, distance yourself from that movement and start off on a better foot. Organize under a separate banner with a clearer mission statement that does not threaten women. Do not cling to a diseased movement just because it's convenient.
    Yeah. This sounds like a good idea to me in relation. Also making sure to condemn those making attacks would be another. Supporting those being attacked would be even better in both spreading good will while doing whatever apparently needs to be done about corruption.

  17. #2417

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  18. #2418

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    Soo... was watching Bill O' and Jon's argument from last night's Daily Show.

    On the subject of "White privilege", Bill argues what about asians? Asian Americans make more money than whites! Why can't you say there's Asian privilege!?

    Well, Bill is only right on the factual numbers, not his opinion.
    Because sure, there is such thing as "Asian privilege", but it simply has nothing to do with America's systematic problem.
    Asians have a cultural background founded on work ethics and importance on education. This is carried over from the first generation immigrants from their homelands. Asian American having advantage in the upbringings is a "situational" privilege, and it is entirely unrelated to America's systematic racial divide, and cannot be used to correlate with Latino and Black communities.
    Using that to try and convince that white privilege does not exist is logically defunct.

  19. #2419

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
    And all minorities are totally a hivemind who always feel jilted by da big bad white man who always has a supah seekrit objective of oppressing them. Always. Always.

    Wait- what's that? A minority doesn't feel constantly oppressed? And they agree with this movement?!

    http://40.media.tumblr.com/73df4acf6...ac3o4_1280.jpg
    Minority could be literally anything in any given society since there have been societies.
    Just as since there has ever been societies there have been periods where a bunch of headless chickens run around squawking about witches, communists, rightists, whatevers, and the mobs mix in with the opportunists and burn the UNTRUSTED ONES among maybe like...1% or so of what they're actually looking for.
    In this case it's the fat manboys burning cooties.

  20. #2420
    Do you wanna borrow it? Khamolen's Avatar
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