View Poll Results: When Will Doflamino Be Defeated

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Thread: Official Dressrosa Thread

  1. #5221
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    Default Re: Official Dressrosa Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FolhaS View Post
    You're totally missing on the aspect of Kyros' fatherhood.

    Kyros flashback was about him growing up, from a low life kid no one really cares about to someone who can be loved, and coming to terms with that.
    He only touched his daughter at the end of Dressrosa, because, while he was still a human, he used to wear gloves so that he would get his baby girl "dirty".

    Kyros problem of not being a real father, because despite being something he truly wanted he felt it was something that was beyond his reach, was already there before he was turned into a toy and it was not resolved just by Kyros turning back.
    He still had to run around, and fight, and talk to his daugher, to realized that despite his bad past he had grown enough to deserve being loved and being able to love to it's full extent.

    The being a toy part was just there to amplify it.
    Oh yeah, that too. I forgot about the whole "deserving to be loved" shtick. Which I probably can't blame myself for considering how obnoxious it is that everybody pretends to not know that Kyros and Rebecca are alive and related instead of merely letting them live alone if that's what they really want.

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  2. #5222

    Default Re: Official Dressrosa Thread

    The consequences of Kyros turning into a toy is what makes the flashback more impactful. I have noticed how little attention this gets, considering it played an important role with Ussop and others in Dressrosa. It is relatable to, because the feeling of wanting to disappear and be forgotten is very real. So, yes how this is handled is fantastical, but it drives the point in an extreme fashion. Kyros, got to disappear, and that realization, a decade long hardship, makes him realize the influence one can have. Maybe why once everyone broke out of the toy spell, his anger, frustration kept rising, not only because of the wrongs done to him, but what of the impact breaking this spell would have on those that forgot as well. As much hapinnes that can having of them back can be, it is also terrifying how inhumanely you treated the toys. "Ugh, it thinks it is a human" turns to "I let my brother be thrown in the junkyard.

    At times I find the citizens of Dressrosa disturbing. Considering all the shit that happened to them, I cannot blame them.
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  3. #5223

    Default Re: Official Dressrosa Thread

    It's almost similar to Superhero movies, where the hero has to protect his loved ones, but can't reveal his identitiy to them. So Kyros's story is perfectly fine.

    Something doesn't have to be literally relatable as long as it's well-written and makes sense. Kyros made sense, and his story ended up being one of the brighter spots of the arc.


    I'm still stunned at the lack of payoff from Law though, the more I look back on it. (The Dressrosa arc actually made me hate him, due to his borderline immortality). Alabasta, Skypeia, Thriller Bark, Whitebeard War, etc. all had excellent endings. Dressrosa's ending was so rushed.
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  4. #5224

    Default Re: Official Dressrosa Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ShinigamiKing View Post
    Dressrosa's ending was so rushed.
    Even though we had Sabo's story, Luffy running through the city with Rebecca and facing off Fujitora? Maybe it's because you didn't followed on a weekly basis, but it was kind of dragged.

  5. #5225
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    Default Re: Official Dressrosa Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ShinigamiKing View Post
    It's almost similar to Superhero movies, where the hero has to protect his loved ones, but can't reveal his identitiy to them. So Kyros's story is perfectly fine.

    Something doesn't have to be literally relatable as long as it's well-written and makes sense. Kyros made sense, and his story ended up being one of the brighter spots of the arc.


    I'm still stunned at the lack of payoff from Law though, the more I look back on it. (The Dressrosa arc actually made me hate him, due to his borderline immortality). Alabasta, Skypeia, Thriller Bark, Whitebeard War, etc. all had excellent endings. Dressrosa's ending was so rushed.
    We got a little bit of payoff from Law with his conversation with Sengoku. Although, yes, that was too short and way too much of an afterthought. I think that we will get more payoff from Law's character journey when he interacts with X Drake in Wano Country due to their meeting in Sabaody Archipelago and the likelihood that Drake is actually a Marine double-agent like Rosinante (which would explain the juxtaposition of Drake's backstory with Law's in the same flashback, as if they're destined to be tied together in some way).

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  6. #5226

    Default Re: Official Dressrosa Thread

    I wasn't that active in the One Piece community at the start of Dressrosa so I've got to ask, why did some people think Doflamingo wouldn't be defeated during the arc? This isn't like Big Mom where he's a different class of enemy, he was their third (fourth if we count Hancock) warlord. They also had a full crew with Law and Kinemon backing them up. Not like now where we only have half of the Strawhats.

  7. #5227

    Default Re: Official Dressrosa Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBits View Post
    I wasn't that active in the One Piece community at the start of Dressrosa so I've got to ask, why did some people think Doflamingo wouldn't be defeated during the arc? This isn't like Big Mom where he's a different class of enemy, he was their third (fourth if we count Hancock) warlord. They also had a full crew with Law and Kinemon backing them up. Not like now where we only have half of the Strawhats.
    Although it was obvious to me DF would be defeated, still I don't understand how you could compare him to the other warlords Luffy faced so far.
    DF has advanced haki skills including Conqueror Haki. He was mentioned as one of the few men who could possibly be capable of stopping BB.
    Eventually we even saw him being able to use its df to its fullest potential.

    I can't imagine Emperors being way stronger than DF given DF is at least at admiral level.
    I can't Moria or even Crocodile any close to DF strength.

  8. #5228
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    Default Re: Official Dressrosa Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sonnet View Post
    Although it was obvious to me DF would be defeated, still I don't understand how you could compare him to the other warlords Luffy faced so far.
    DF has advanced haki skills including Conqueror Haki. He was mentioned as one of the few men who could possibly be capable of stopping BB.
    Eventually we even saw him being able to use its df to its fullest potential.

    I can't imagine Emperors being way stronger than DF given DF is at least at admiral level.
    I can't Moria or even Crocodile any close to DF strength.
    It's not just about individual power. Doflamingo, as powerful as he was, was still *just* a Warlord in terms of military might and overall influence. He had a pretty big pull in the underworld, and was even widely considered to be its kind , but due to the secretive and closed nature of the underworld he never made it as big as the Emperors when it comes to the actual world of pirates. The Donquixote Family had a total of 2000 fodder under their command, plus 12 or so executives that made up the family itself. At the time, that seemed very impressive, but it wasn't that big of a deal, especially since the total fodder crowd at Enies Lobby was 5 times the amount of DF's one, and Baroque Works had at least a somewhat comparable amount of people in their employment. Hell, even Krieg commanded 5000 men back in the Baratie arc. What I'm getting at is that while Doflamingo himself might have been stronger than anybody Luffy's ever fought before, the overall structure and the numbers of the antagonist group made it clear that Doffy's reign was about to end, especially with so many players in the game against him.
    Now if you look at BM's crew, you'll basically understand that just in terms of sheer number of executives, Doffy's crew seems like nothing. Seriously, she has 85 children, and we can assume that at least 55-60 of those are of fighting age. Not to mention that BM has an endless amount of homies, fodder, god knows what else. And that's just her children, there are also people like Tamago, Pekoms, Bobbin (lol) and many others I presume. This is all against a relatively small fighting force.
    Which is why individual power is not all when it comes to who falls and who doesn't in each arc.

  9. #5229

    Default Re: Official Dressrosa Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sonnet View Post
    Although it was obvious to me DF would be defeated, still I don't understand how you could compare him to the other warlords Luffy faced so far.
    DF has advanced haki skills including Conqueror Haki. He was mentioned as one of the few men who could possibly be capable of stopping BB.
    Eventually we even saw him being able to use its df to its fullest potential.
    No he wasn't. I just reread chapter 594, and the people who could potentially defeat BB were the other Yonkou, and Marco and the remaining WB pirates. By the time we saw him do anything really crazy with his fruit, we were deep enough into the arc that nobody was denying that he would be defeated.

  10. #5230

    Default Re: Official Dressrosa Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Lao G View Post
    It's not just about individual power. Doflamingo, as powerful as he was, was still *just* a Warlord in terms of military might and overall influence. He had a pretty big pull in the underworld, and was even widely considered to be its kind , but due to the secretive and closed nature of the underworld he never made it as big as the Emperors when it comes to the actual world of pirates. The Donquixote Family had a total of 2000 fodder under their command, plus 12 or so executives that made up the family itself. At the time, that seemed very impressive, but it wasn't that big of a deal, especially since the total fodder crowd at Enies Lobby was 5 times the amount of DF's one, and Baroque Works had at least a somewhat comparable amount of people in their employment. Hell, even Krieg commanded 5000 men back in the Baratie arc. What I'm getting at is that while Doflamingo himself might have been stronger than anybody Luffy's ever fought before, the overall structure and the numbers of the antagonist group made it clear that Doffy's reign was about to end, especially with so many players in the game against him.
    Now if you look at BM's crew, you'll basically understand that just in terms of sheer number of executives, Doffy's crew seems like nothing. Seriously, she has 85 children, and we can assume that at least 55-60 of those are of fighting age. Not to mention that BM has an endless amount of homies, fodder, god knows what else. And that's just her children, there are also people like Tamago, Pekoms, Bobbin (lol) and many others I presume. This is all against a relatively small fighting force.
    Which is why individual power is not all when it comes to who falls and who doesn't in each arc.
    I don't disagree with that. For what we've seen so far, DF's crew is a joke compared to the crews of the Emperors. I said that since I have read many saying multiple times that Luffy is not ready at all to beat down an Emperor implying more or less explicitly that between DF and Kaido or Big Mom there's a huge difference in power strength.
    And while I agree Emperors are significantly more powerful than DF (and that with no help at all Luffy would lose today against them), I argue that the difference is not that huge.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBits View Post
    No he wasn't. I just reread chapter 594, and the people who could potentially defeat BB were the other Yonkou, and Marco and the remaining WB pirates. By the time we saw him do anything really crazy with his fruit, we were deep enough into the arc that nobody was denying that he would be defeated.
    My apologies then, I probably got confused. Still it was obvious to me that DF was another class compared to the WL SH have previously defeated.
    At Marineford was obvious that DF was way superior to Moria, as also Crocodile was not nearly close to DF. We don't know if DF could really beat Aokiji (probably not) but to dare to kill Smokers regardless of Aokiji's threat it's obviously implied they're quite close in power strength , otherwise he'd be scared to face Aokiji's wrath.

  11. #5231

    Default Re: Official Dressrosa Thread

    The reason for the belief Doflamingo wouldn't be defeated in Dressrosa stems in my eyes from the fact that he was a character we've known since Jaya. In comparison most other arc antagonists were only introduced in their respective arc or at most in the same sage. But Doflamingo got hyped from way back as well as Sabaody and Marine Ford. So people expected him to be a bit more widespread villain and not another Crocodile scopewise.


  12. #5232
    As eleGant as ever! Lao G's Avatar
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    Default Re: Official Dressrosa Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sonnet View Post
    I don't disagree with that. For what we've seen so far, DF's crew is a joke compared to the crews of the Emperors. I said that since I have read many saying multiple times that Luffy is not ready at all to beat down an Emperor implying more or less explicitly that between DF and Kaido or Big Mom there's a huge difference in power strength.
    And while I agree Emperors are significantly more powerful than DF (and that with no help at all Luffy would lose today against them), I argue that the difference is not that huge.
    If we're taking only individual strength into consideration, then yeah, I agree, the difference isn't that huge. Dofft's an extremely troublesome fighter for anyone. But then again it depends on which Emperor we're talking about, they have different abilities after all.

  13. #5233

    Default Re: Official Dressrosa Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainAppleJack View Post
    The reason for the belief Doflamingo wouldn't be defeated in Dressrosa stems in my eyes from the fact that he was a character we've known since Jaya. In comparison most other arc antagonists were only introduced in their respective arc or at most in the same sage. But Doflamingo got hyped from way back as well as Sabaody and Marine Ford. So people expected him to be a bit more widespread villain and not another Crocodile scopewise.
    This. Doflamingo was the first New World arc antagonist who was introduced waaaaaay earlier and therefore had quite some build-up and, of course, lots of hype.
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  14. #5234
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    Default Re: Official Dressrosa Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBits View Post
    I wasn't that active in the One Piece community at the start of Dressrosa so I've got to ask, why did some people think Doflamingo wouldn't be defeated during the arc? This isn't like Big Mom where he's a different class of enemy, he was their third (fourth if we count Hancock) warlord. They also had a full crew with Law and Kinemon backing them up. Not like now where we only have half of the Strawhats.
    I think it was due to the pacing of the story arcs (Punk Hazard and Dressrosa) more than anything else; Dressrosa in particular was so overstuffed with subplots that it felt like resolving them all in one go would be a bit much. A mindset of "Take down the factory now, Doflamingo himself later", since the obvious parralels/recycling of the Baroque Works "saga" meant that many expected a more gradual buildup of Doflamingos operation and eventual defeat. Plus, people kept waiting for him to unfold a master plan, or any kind of tangible goal to be thwarted; the Birdcage desperation move couldn't be it, surely?

    Basically, people were not adjusted to the hyper-condensed post-skip storytelling of One Piece, which is also why everyone were expecting some sort of conflict to happen in Zou, until the very last second.

  15. #5235

    Default Re: Official Dressrosa Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Daz View Post
    I think it was due to the pacing of the story arcs (Punk Hazard and Dressrosa) more than anything else; Dressrosa in particular was so overstuffed with subplots that it felt like resolving them all in one go would be a bit much. A mindset of "Take down the factory now, Doflamingo himself later"
    Yeah, especially when the destruction of the factory didn't actually feel like the big "Yes!" moment I think it should have been. It was the purpose of the Strawhats going to Dressrosa, but it just felt like a footnote when shit hit the fan.

    I'm curious, do you think Dressrosa could have worked better if it was split up into two different arcs? Like one arc where they destroy the factory ( which is in the green bit, because; why not? ) and one where they free the toys and beat up Doflamingo.

  16. #5236
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    Default Re: Official Dressrosa Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Strooger View Post
    Yeah, especially when the destruction of the factory didn't actually feel like the big "Yes!" moment I think it should have been. It was the purpose of the Strawhats going to Dressrosa, but it just felt like a footnote when shit hit the fan.

    I'm curious, do you think Dressrosa could have worked better if it was split up into two different arcs? Like one arc where they destroy the factory ( which is in the green bit, because; why not? ) and one where they free the toys and beat up Doflamingo.
    Absolutely. People always say Dressrosa was too long, but what it needed was to be even longer in order to properly deal with all the stuff it had going on. Either that, or some of its gazillion plotlines/characters should have been axed. Spreading all the different elements across several arcs wouldve been the best of both worlds, but since Oda wants to finish the series before he dies, he compromised and mushed everything together into one arc.

  17. #5237

    Default Re: Official Dressrosa Thread

    Dressrosa complaint no2:

    The tournament, where the only participants we knew before starting were: Burgess, Luffy/Sabo and Bellamy. On one hand it made it hard for us to know who were going to be relevant, and the whole mystic around Bartolomeo, but on the other hand it kind of felt cheap for a nation like Kano or Cabbage Sempai showing up from nowhere.
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  18. #5238

    Default Re: Official Dressrosa Thread

    I didn't read One Piece weekly back then, I started reading the Dressrosa arc when it was basically coming to an end so I pretty much had no problem with the arc and I actually enjoyed it. Granted even tho I liked Dressrosa there are still some stuff about the arc I didn't like, but overall still an enjoyable arc for me.

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