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Thread: Naruto and Bleach IV- Sexy time

  1. #7101
    Discovered Stowaway Bigivel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- So, what's your favorite pizza topping?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheep View Post
    but it makes the second movie completely pointless. All the struggle, raiding the facility and facing off an army of cop and the friggin' T-1000 - all completely and utterly pointless, especially after a heartfelt monologue from Sarah Connor about how from now on, destiny wasn't written down, how they could genuinely escape the horror of a skynet future just to get the middle finger in a shitty adaption years latter saying pretty much "lol, skynet would've found another way to develop the EXACT SAME sentiment and philosophy like former skynet did"
    and no, there wasn't really a conflict between these two "believe systems" (which they aren't) it was pretty straight forward and the very reason why the third should have never existed
    They succeeded at the end of terminator 2 with destroying all evidence of skynet even existing (which, if you remember was the catalyst for skynet even existing in judgment day) since it all played into the "things from the past creating the future" narrative the series had going on (Kyle Reese being John Connors father only because John send him back in time, the arm and chip of the first T-800 being the foundation for Miles research)
    The third movie can go and fuck itself
    I'm seeing you're confused. They didn't really knew very well what really caused the Skynet. If I remember well they thought it was the arm of the robot from the first movie. Notice that Sarah Connor isn't omniscient nor John Connor(The kid from the Present and the Man from the future) nor the Robot(Terminator) nor even the Skynet from the future. They didn't knew how everything happened nor the consequences of the changes they made. They believed that they had finally rewritten the future, that is the only fact. The hell, the Skynet was even the cause for the creation of his archenemy and, what they thought(Sarah and John), the creation of itself without even knowing.

    The 3rd movie doesn't destroy that in any way. It builds on top of it. After a lot of years, John thought the future was rewritten when another Robot(Terminator) appears and says that they didn't really rewrite the future, or at least the parts they wanted. You can argue the movie is a retcon, but Is one very good retcon at that. In fact the same can be told about the 2nd movie, that it was a retcon of the 1st movie.

    There was a conflict! Throughout all the movie and in the end. The end message of the movie was even about that! The conflict was very explicit and simple handled, the Terminator telling that his mission was putting John Connor into a save place, and protect him from the Robot-Girl, even if against his orders(so this time the terminator wasn't made to obey him), while John Connor was looking for the "different" origin of the Skynet and trying to destroy it to finally "change" the future.
    There were a portion of the movie that makes the viewers believe that the conflict ended and that now we are only focusing in the John Connor objective, but in the end we see that everything was the Terminator deceiving him.
    Last edited by Bigivel; March 26th, 2014 at 11:50 AM.

  2. #7102

    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- So, what's your favorite pizza topping?

    Suddenly we are talking about Terminator?
    New thread title: I'll be back.

  3. #7103

    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- So, what's your favorite pizza topping?

    I can't believe I'm doing this
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigivel View Post
    I'm seeing you're confused. They didn't really knew very well what really caused the Skynet. If I remember well they thought it was the arm of the robot from the first movie. Notice that Sarah Connor isn't omniscient nor John Connor(The kid from the Present and the Man from the future) nor the Robot(Terminator) nor even the Skynet from the future. They didn't know how everything happened nor the consequences of the changes they made. They believed that they had finally rewritten the future, that is the only fact.
    but they did. Sarah knew it was the the arm and the chip, Miles even confirmed that, the Terminator knew, that's why he told them about Dyson anyway. The Terminator can only get his knowledge through Skynet, so it's logical to assume that Skynet knew that Miles Dyson was his creator. Yeah, sure, skynet can't know about pararell dimensions and shit with different outcomes, but that is irrelevant to the continuity of the first two movies who work perfectly for just that - a self contained story in two movies, not three, there was never a reason for terminator 3 except lazy cash-in and milking of a franchise that should've stayed in the 80s/90s

    The 3rd movie doesn't destroy that in any way. It builds on top of that. After a lot of years, John thought the future was rewritten when another Robot(Terminator) appears and says that they didn't really rewrite the future, or at least the parts they wanted. You can argue the movie is a retcon, but Is one very good retcon at that. In fact the same can be told about the 2nd movie, that it was a retcon of the 1st movie.
    jesus fuck, no, no, no, that's not a good a retcon at all, what the fuck
    The second was a direct continuation of the happenings in the first movie, the second actually builds on the first, with the arm and chip surviving the hydraulic press in the first movie, this isn't some mystical case where it was always meant for Skynet to exist at any time, it was a lazy idea in a shitty movie. Sarah lands in the psychiatric ward for claiming robots will rule the future and her actions of trying to bomb the facility who recovered the future objects. What about Terminator 3? Jump into the far future, adult john, Sarah dead, almost completely disconnected from the former movies, except for the fact that they happened.
    Terminator 1 '84 to terminator 2 '91, six years between the movies, both with James Cameron as a director and writer and William Wisher Jr as writer too
    and then, twelve fucking years later, terminator 3 in '03, not directed or written by Cameron, not even Wisher on board

    There was a conflict! Throughout all the movie and in the end. The end message of the movie was even about that! The conflict was very explicit and simple handled, the Terminator telling that his mission was putting John Connor into a save place, and protect him from the Robot-Girl, even if against him(so this time the terminator wasn't made to obey him), while John Connor was looking for the "different" origin of the Skynet and trying to destroy it to finally "changing" the future.
    yes, that was in the third movie that who just made all that stuff up that never should've been, that's my point. In the third the Terminator knows there is no hope, while the one in the second movie said even he doesn't know what could develop with them targeting the company, again, how convenient for the writers of the third. I wish bending the story of long etablished franchises was always an option!

    There were a portion of the movie that makes the viewers believe that the conflict ended and that now we are only focusing in the John Connor objective, but in the end we see that everything was the Terminator deceiving him.
    again, that was in the third movie, that happened in its own dumb parallel universe disconnected from the first and second. I really don't care what the third claims is relevant, it's like Indy 4, I just pretend it doesn't exist because it shouldn't, since it completely shits on the two movies before it.


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    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- So, what's your favorite pizza topping?

    You guys need to discuss the Alien thing much more. I still can't believe this really happened, goddamn it Kishi.

    Otherwise both chapters were fun. Bleach largely for its ending though. Also I like that "Kenpachi is just Yachiru's imagination" theory a lot.

  5. #7105
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    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- So, what's your favorite pizza topping?

    Quote Originally Posted by KageKageKing View Post
    New thread title: I'll be back.
    You mean "I'll be Bach", right?

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    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- So, what's your favorite pizza topping?

    These chapters were too stupid for words. I can't deal anymore. I'm just going to avoid them until they're over then catch up. later yall.

  7. #7107
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    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- So, what's your favorite pizza topping?

    Quote Originally Posted by f-trash View Post
    You guys need to discuss the Alien thing much more. I still can't believe this really happened, goddamn it Kishi.
    Well, it's an obvious reference to Japanese folk tale of Princess Kaguya, who also was an alien or "came from another world".

    That being said, it's still stupid as hell. And it continues Kishi's trend of, "It's a reference to Japanese folklore, so that means it's smart and cool!"

  8. #7108

    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- So, what's your favorite pizza topping?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobodyman View Post
    So if Naruto and Sasuke, as well as Hashirama and Madara, are reincarnations of...those two guys, then how can two reincarnations of one person be alive at the same time?
    Wait, is that really the case in the chapter? I don't read the chapter until Monday so I haven't witnessed for myself...
    But yea, that's kind of a Kishi original.

    Also throws a wrench into resurrection/Edo tensei type stuff in general. Like, every other Edo tensei zombie we've seen? Have their spirits reincarnated yet and thus have cases similar to Naruto/Hashirama/the Sage?
    When Hashirama got Edo tensei'd, did a chunk of Naruto's soul get yanked out or something?

  9. #7109
    Discovered Stowaway Bigivel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- So, what's your favorite pizza topping?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheep View Post
    I can't believe I'm doing this


    but they did. Sarah knew it was the the arm and the chip, Miles even confirmed that, the Terminator knew, that's why he told them about Dyson anyway. The Terminator can only get his knowledge through Skynet, so it's logical to assume that Skynet knew that Miles Dyson was his creator. Yeah, sure, skynet can't know about pararell dimensions and shit with different outcomes, but that is irrelevant to the continuity of the first two movies who work perfectly for just that - a self contained story in two movies, not three, there was never a reason for terminator 3 except lazy cash-in and milking of a franchise that should've stayed in the 80s/90s


    jesus fuck, no, no, no, that's not a good a retcon at all, what the fuck
    The second was a direct continuation of the happenings in the first movie, the second actually builds on the first, with the arm and chip surviving the hydraulic press in the first movie, this isn't some mystical case where it was always meant for Skynet to exist at any time, it was a lazy idea in a shitty movie. Sarah lands in the psychiatric ward for claiming robots will rule the future and her actions of trying to bomb the facility who recovered the future objects. What about Terminator 3? Jump into the far future, adult john, Sarah dead, almost completely disconnected from the former movies, except for the fact that they happened.
    Terminator 1 '84 to terminator 2 '91, six years between the movies, both with James Cameron as a director and writer and William Wisher Jr as writer too
    and then, twelve fucking years later, terminator 3 in '03, not directed or written by Cameron, not even Wisher on board



    yes, that was in the third movie that who just made all that stuff up that never should've been, that's my point. In the third the Terminator knows there is no hope, while the one in the second movie said even he doesn't know what could develop with them targeting the company, again, how convenient for the writers of the third. I wish bending the story of long etablished franchises was always an option!


    again, that was in the third movie, that happened in its own dumb parallel universe disconnected from the first and second. I really don't care what the third claims is relevant, it's like Indy 4, I just pretend it doesn't exist because it shouldn't, since it completely shits on the two movies before it.
    Your argument is all based in the fact that the 3rd movie story is bad, but you're just trying to prove that. Basically you're a purist of the 2 movies, and can't consider anything else.
    Note that the time passed between Terminator 2 and Terminator 3 is less by 1 year(inside the story) than between Terminator 1 and Terminator 2.

    Note that the Terminator 2 was made 7 years after the first movie. It wasn't something "planned" for continuation like you say. Yep, the 3rd movie took 5 years more than the second and it wasn't written by James Cameron, but that doesn't mean is badly written, nor that it doesn't make sense storywise.

    Note that your they "knew" is not 100% percent certain, but only a conjecture, that was made by information taken from Skynet database. Note that Skynet knew the creator, but not the circumstances, at least that information they didn't had(I'm not that sure given that I didn't see the movie recently, but if I remember correctly they were pretty surprised when they noted that he had the arm and the chip).

    My main point, that you disregard like it wasn't important, but the base of my entire case, is that they weren't omniscient so they didn't knew everything so the consequences to the future about what they did in the present wasn't known. That gives space for a logical expansion and it was what they used. Note that in the end of Terminator 2, the words of Sarah wasn't to be taken like Laws of the universe and in reality as an "really?", just like the end of the first movie was made in the same way. If they wanted for the Terminator 2 to be the last movie they certainly would show that the future was indeed changed.

    P.S:
    - There are books where the authors dies and other continue his story and it keeps to be really good and making a lot of sense.
    - Did Cameron and Wysher ever commented about the 3rd movie? Did they talked bad about it?
    Last edited by Bigivel; March 26th, 2014 at 12:58 PM.

  10. #7110

    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- So, what's your favorite pizza topping?

    Quote Originally Posted by Piitan View Post
    Yeah, that sounds fine.

  11. #7111
    Discovered Stowaway Bigivel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- So, what's your favorite pizza topping?

    Quote Originally Posted by f-trash View Post
    You guys need to discuss the Alien thing much more. I still can't believe this really happened, goddamn it Kishi.

    Otherwise both chapters were fun. Bleach largely for its ending though. Also I like that "Kenpachi is just Yachiru's imagination" theory a lot.
    The Sage of the six path mother doesn't look like an Alien but like a goddess, I don't know her name nor what religion she is, but I believe it is from the Hinduism(but don't take my word, because I'm just guessing). She appeares in Kyouso Giga anime as well.

    Well, I'm not that certain, probably I'm wrong :P, but Alien was only something that the stupid Naruto came up. Certainly the far away place she came is some other country, that I believe is the parallel of India, where she was a goddess.

  12. #7112

    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- So, what's your favorite pizza topping?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigivel View Post
    The Sage of the six path mother doesn't look like an Alien but like a goddess, I don't know her name nor what religion she is, but I believe it is from the Hinduism(but don't take my word, because I'm just guessing). She appeares in Kyouso Giga anime as well.

    Well, I'm not that certain, probably I'm wrong :P, but Alien was only something that the stupid Naruto came up. Certainly the far away place she came is some other country, that I believe is the parallel of India, where she was a goddess.
    No, it's Kaguya, the princess of the moon in Japanese folklore. Hence why they referred to her potentially as a rabbit goddess.

    Still stupid as balls though

  13. #7113

    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- So, what's your favorite pizza topping?

    So we have ninjas, zombies and now aliens. Now all that's missing from naruto is robots.

  14. #7114

    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- So, what's your favorite pizza topping?

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorPhil View Post
    So we have ninjas, zombies and now aliens. Now all that's missing from naruto is robots.
    About that...


  15. #7115
    The Album Guy Nobodyman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- So, what's your favorite pizza topping?

    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhere View Post
    Wait, is that really the case in the chapter? I don't read the chapter until Monday so I haven't witnessed for myself...
    But yea, that's kind of a Kishi original.
    To be fair, the Hashirama/Madara reincarnation hasn't been confirmed, and, of course, there have been other Idra/Ashura parallels that lived at the same time Naruto and Sasuke did.

    Still, it's a fair assumption.

  16. #7116

    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- So, what's your favorite pizza topping?

    It all comes down to that Tobito I believe explained that the sage had two sons and one son basically founded the uchiha clan and had something that was like the sharingan that is now retconned to actually being the sharingan, and the other son advocated peace or some BS like that and eventually founded the senju clan, so if Madara and Hashirama aren't those two then, well, whatever.

  17. #7117

    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- So, what's your favorite pizza topping?

    I thought you guys were joking but nope, suddenly it's aliens. Can we go back to Guy beating up Madara?
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  18. #7118

    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- So, what's your favorite pizza topping?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigivel View Post
    Your argument is all based in the fact that the 3rd movie story is bad, but you're just trying to prove that. Basically you're a purist of the 2 movies, and can't consider anything else.
    no, I gave you several reasons, which you are hand-waving away with "b-b-but this and that is a possibility", while I base everything I know on the actual movies. The ones that came first with a reasonable difference of production time between them, especially considering how much more budget Terminator 2 had, two movies that actually directly connect to each other.

    Note that the time passed between Terminator 2 and Terminator 3 is less by 1 year(inside the story) than between Terminator 1 and Terminator 2.
    that means absolutely nothing, the third still doesn't build up on anything except the concept of evil machines in the future, except some made-up love interest that was never hinted at in the second movie.

    Note that the Terminator 2 was made 7 years after the first movie. It wasn't something "planned" for continuation like you say. Yep, the 3rd movie took 5 years more than the second and it wasn't written by James Cameron, but that doesn't mean it badly written, nor that it doesn't make sense storywise.
    So, you say the creator of the franchise doesn't have a say in what is meant as a true and genuine continuation of his franchise as opposed to an offensively obvious cash-in. Somehow saying Terminator 2, which involves the people who created the goddamn franchise, has less weight than some random asshole trying to revive the franchise after twelve years.
    Also we are not talking about the movie being bad, the original core of the discussion was theme betrayal, which I went into great detail to explain and you, again, hand-waved away as if it doesn't matter at all who is involved in the movie, especially the writers. If you want me to describe why the third one sucks in general, even ignoring the first two movies...well, I just hope you have a couple of hours, because it was shit movie and I could go into great detail why.

    Note that your they "knew" is not 100% percent certain, but only a conjecture, that was made by information taken from Skynet database. Note that Skynet knew the creator, but not the circumstances, at least that information they didn't had(I'm not that sure given that I didn't see the movie recently, but if I remember correctly they were pretty surprised when they noted that he had the arm and the chip).
    yes, Sarah never knew, but she always suspected because everyone kept quiet about the stuff found in the factory. She had every reason to be suspicious.
    It doesn't matter what the circumstances of the second movie were to skynet, it knew who its creator was, that's what mattered. And yes, my 100% "knew" is definitely certain because the fucking movie said so. This isn't some incredibly smart franchise that was out to trick you from the first movie out just to confuse you nineteen years later, and if you truly think so, you are straight up lying to yourself. You act like the first two movies leave much from for wild fan theories, while that simply isn't true. They are two perfectly self-contained movies that work out well when watching together, the 3rd doesn't.
    I mean yes, the time travel stuff is downright stupid, but so was it in Back to the future, these things almost never make sense. But at least the first two movies created a case that worked out in the movies internal logic, unlike the third.

    My main point, that you disregard like it wasn't important, but the base of my entire case, is that they weren't omniscient so they didn't knew everything so the consequences to the future about what they did in the present wasn't known. That gives space for a logical expansion and it was what they used. Note that in the end of Terminator 2, the words of Sarah wasn't to be taken like Laws of the universe and in reality as an "really?", just like the end of the first movie was made in the same way. If they wanted for the Terminator 2 to be the last movie they certainly would show that the future was indeed changed
    yes, there always was a tiny chance, let's say 1% that skynet would somehow find a way, but does it make sense? No, it doesn't
    go on, explain to me how something as specific as Skynet, that developed a consciousness and had an agenda, just happened to develop the exact same thoughts and machines as the first one
    what about the fact that Skynet itself believes it can change the future, with killing his nemesis while still being a child?

    There are books where the authors dies and other continue his story and it keeps to be really good and making a lot of sense.
    yes, and this one isn't, which is why its universally despised by movie fans and fans of the franchise.

    I don't know what the creators of the franchise said about the third movie, but if they wanted a legit continuation of the story, they would've done so themselves, but they didn't. What does this tell you? When the guy, who made the first two movies, says no to the third and sells the franchise rights to some unknown director. Obviously, in 03, Cameron didn't care anymore and was just glad that he could get some royalties, number 364 why the third is such an painfully obvious cash-in.

    Edit: or you could just look at number 1 in this article; http://www.cracked.com/article_17390...-sense_p2.html
    Last edited by Sheep; March 26th, 2014 at 01:45 PM.


  19. #7119

    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- So, what's your favorite pizza topping?

    Naruto and Bleach IV - Rise of the Alien Ninjas

  20. #7120
    Indiscriminate Grappler Gokuyuske's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- So, what's your favorite pizza topping?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobodyman View Post
    To be fair, the Hashirama/Madara reincarnation hasn't been confirmed, and, of course, there have been other Idra/Ashura parallels that lived at the same time Naruto and Sasuke did.
    What's abundantly clear is that Kishi's decided to address his repetitive and lackluster storytelling by explaining it away as reincarnations.

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