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Thread: Naruto and Bleach IV- Sexy time

  1. #5001
    Lurking since 2007... Nidhoeggr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- Needs more Nicolas Cage

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Hermit View Post
    Fiction is but another medium to express ideas. Of course you're going to get more exaggerated personality types. OP has them, DB has them, every series has them. But the exaggerations are not what makes us root for them necessarily. We judge prose and narration based on how well we can connect and understand the world, even if its laws vary from ours. At its best, it can deliver itself as a metaphor with symbolism to make us think about ideas, but at the minimum, there must be some sort of connection we can feel. Having zero characterization does nothing for that, and really when you distill it down, the characters in Bleach lack any sort of that thing other than "being cool" and "being an asshole"
    Couldn't have said it better. Then again:

    Otherwise we can just go and say "Air Gear is fiction! Don't expect something realistic!" and be happy that it's one of the shittiest, most scatterbrained things out there.
    This IS what most anime fans actually do. Whether it is because they are young, inexperienced or just reject the idea of having standards in any form in regards to fiction I can't tell. However, low personal standards shouldn't be used to leash out at people who actually still abide by these standards and who want more out of a medium than simple entertainment.

    Quote Originally Posted by pRopaaNS View Post
    Yeah, perhabs you can see me as alien for being able to empathise with those emotionless fictional characters or whatever.
    I completely agree with you, but that's my point - just because something is harder to relate to that alone doesn't make it actual flaw. Not because it isn't, but because I don't believe in perfection and I'd prefer for artist to express his own ideas than take over socially accepted standartized and stereotypical models and methods. But well, it's your choice if you take anyone who tries to do things his own way as a flawed specimen who doesn't know how society works. Thank you for only trying to understand people whose you can relate with.
    The thing is: Kubo doesn't make anything special. He comforts to the stereotypical ideas of writing badass, cool, dickish, emotionless and stoic characters (which is about all they have as traits). His own ideas consist of having the standard of coolness of a 14-year old.
    If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. - Sun Tzu, The Art Of War



  2. #5002

    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- Needs more Nicolas Cage

    Seriously

    This isn't about doing things right or doing things his way. When you distill it down this is all stuff that is stereotypically popular and cool without any of the effort to give it depth.
    Last edited by Purple Hermit; January 30th, 2014 at 10:33 AM. Reason: Dammit Nidhoeggr, beat me to it!

  3. #5003
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    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- Needs more Nicolas Cage

    Quote Originally Posted by Nidhoeggr View Post
    The thing is: Kubo doesn't make anything special. He comforts to the stereotypical ideas of writing badass, cool, dickish, emotionless and stoic characters (which is about all they have as traits). His own ideas consist of having the standard of coolness of a 14-year old.
    Why do you assume that those characters have no depth when you can't read their thoughts?

  4. #5004
    Lurking since 2007... Nidhoeggr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- Needs more Nicolas Cage

    Quote Originally Posted by pRopaaNS View Post
    Why do you assume that those characters have no depth when you can't read their thoughts?
    It would help if their thoughts made sense and Kubo wouldn't change them as he sees fit.
    If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. - Sun Tzu, The Art Of War



  5. #5005

    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- Needs more Nicolas Cage

    Quote Originally Posted by pRopaaNS View Post
    Why do you assume that those characters have no depth when you can't read their thoughts?
    There is such thing as characterization without thought bubbles you know.

    Or, maybe it would be nice if they had thought bubbles. Just something so that they're not just cardboard cutouts put in battle scenes.

    We can only judge by what is presented, and if you expect the audience to be able to pick up "depth" when there is none to be had, then I guess Kubo's poetry is the next best thing.

  6. #5006
    Lurking since 2007... Nidhoeggr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- Needs more Nicolas Cage

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Hermit View Post
    There is such thing as characterization without thought bubbles you know.

    Or, maybe it would be nice if they had thought bubbles. Just something so that they're not just cardboard cutouts put in battle scenes.

    We can only judge by what is presented, and if you expect the audience to be able to pick up "depth" when there is none to be had, then I guess Kubo's poetry is the next best thing.
    Hey, Kubo's deep poems are awesome! Look how perfectly they characterize Aizen's deep plans!
    If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. - Sun Tzu, The Art Of War



  7. #5007

    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- Needs more Nicolas Cage

    Quote Originally Posted by Nidhoeggr View Post
    It would help if their thoughts made sense and Kubo wouldn't change them as he sees fit.
    At this point I'm more inclined to say that their thinking is actually another metaphor Kubo's trying to use for "not thinking things through but thinking you have" which is his attitude to Bleach. So meta and so ridiculously contradictory that it makes it even more meta, it's Kubo's "1 in a billion will realize it" secret he's been planting since the beginning of the series.

  8. #5008
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    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- Needs more Nicolas Cage

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Hermit View Post
    There is such thing as characterization without thought bubbles you know.

    Or, maybe it would be nice if they had thought bubbles. Just something so that they're not just cardboard cutouts put in battle scenes.

    We can only judge by what is presented, and if you expect the audience to be able to pick up "depth" when there is none to be had, then I guess Kubo's poetry is the next best thing.
    I see, sorry. Well, for me it ins't that case. Not going to explain how my mind works, but either way I guess I'd have to put thought bullbes if I ever drew comic to give impression that characters are capable of thinking.

  9. #5009

    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- Needs more Nicolas Cage

    Quote Originally Posted by pRopaaNS View Post
    I see, sorry. Well, for me it ins't that case. Not going to explain how my mind works, but either way I guess I'd have to put thought bullbes if I ever drew comic to show that characters are capable of thinking.
    Or emote. Emote. That's all we really ask. That they lack even the slightest hint of a personality ever is what separates Bleach from any other series because kids think that's "what's adult" or "cool" when it's just a sign of immaturity. Thought bubbles are just there because you complained that we don't know if they actually have thoughts or not.

    Dammit I need to reread Sander's MP100 reimagining of Bleach again.

  10. #5010
    Lurking since 2007... Nidhoeggr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- Needs more Nicolas Cage

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Hermit View Post
    Dammit I need to reread Sander's MP100 reimagining of Bleach again.
    You know, I think that's exactly what I will do when I meet a fanboy of Kubo, Kishi or Oh Great! again in real life: I will tell them to read ONE's manga. Should help them to realize something about the flawed idealism the creator lets loose through his characters.
    If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. - Sun Tzu, The Art Of War



  11. #5011
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    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- Needs more Nicolas Cage

    Quote Originally Posted by pRopaaNS View Post
    I see, so Kubo have given such hint for this topic of seemingly emotonless Bleach characters.
    You do know that wasn't the original Color Spread poem, right?

  12. #5012

    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- Needs more Nicolas Cage

    Quote Originally Posted by Nidhoeggr View Post
    You know, I think that's exactly what I will do when I meet a fanboy of Kubo, Kishi or Oh Great! again in real life: I will tell them to read ONE's manga. Should help them to realize something about the flawed idealism the creator lets loose through his characters.
    It's funny because Garou or the Claw division would actually feel like characters created by Kubo... but actually taken seriously as opposed to story tools meant to show how stupid the characters and ideologies are

  13. #5013
    Lurking since 2007... Nidhoeggr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- Needs more Nicolas Cage

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Hermit View Post
    It's funny because Garou or the Claw division would actually feel like characters created by Kubo... but actually taken seriously as opposed to story tools meant to show how stupid the characters and ideologies are
    Claw psychics are exactly like the Fullbringers. Except that people react normally to them by laughing at their delusional shit.
    If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. - Sun Tzu, The Art Of War



  14. #5014
    The King of No Where saringe015's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- Needs more Nicolas Cage

    Quote Originally Posted by pRopaaNS View Post
    Yeah, perhabs you can see me as alien for being able to empathise with those emotionless fictional characters or whatever.
    I completely agree with you, but that's my point - just because something is harder to relate to that alone doesn't make it actual flaw. Not because it isn't, but because I don't believe in perfection and I'd prefer for artist to express his own ideas than take over socially accepted standartized and stereotypical models and methods. But well, it's your choice if you take anyone who tries to do things his own way as a flawed specimen who doesn't know how society works. Thank you for only trying to understand people whose you can relate with.
    How does one empathize with a character void of emotion? If there is anything you would feel for that character it would be either pity for the fact that the author is unable to properly express emotion through said character or contempt for the character when ever there are in a situation and they do not respond with the appropriate emotion towards said situation. If being able to empathize with said characters makes you believe that others are somehow seeing you as an alien due to the fact that you do sympathize with said character then it seems that you may be unable to understand what it is these guys here are saying. The very fact that you believe that the inability for others to relate to an authors characters are not a flaw is a flaw. It is an authors duty to his reader to allow for his characters to be understood in some way (not completely mind you) to his audience, if he doesn't then he fails as a story teller.

  15. #5015

    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- Needs more Nicolas Cage

    Quote Originally Posted by Nidhoeggr View Post
    Claw psychics are exactly like the Fullbringers. Except that people react normally to them by laughing at their delusional shit.
    That's not true at all.

    At least we knew what the Claw psychics' motivation was. What the hell were the Fullbringers after, again?

  16. #5016
    potentially on hiatus Ordinary's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- Needs more Nicolas Cage

    Has pRopaaNS seen Kubo's table yet?

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    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- Needs more Nicolas Cage

    Quote Originally Posted by saringe015 View Post
    How does one empathize with a character void of emotion? If there is anything you would feel for that character it would be either pity for the fact that the author is unable to properly express emotion through said character or contempt for the character when ever there are in a situation and they do not respond with the appropriate emotion towards said situation. If being able to empathize with said characters makes you believe that others are somehow seeing you as an alien due to the fact that you do sympathize with said character then it seems that you may be unable to understand what it is these guys here are saying. The very fact that you believe that the inability for others to relate to an authors characters are not a flaw is a flaw. It is an authors duty to his reader to allow for his characters to be understood in some way (not completely mind you) to his audience, if he doesn't then he fails as a story teller.
    As a guy who don't express my own emotions I can relate to them. That's what I mean't by "perhabs you can see me as alien for bing able to empathise with those emotionless fictional characters". Whatever, so in the end it's flaw because majority of society prefers emotional characters. I just dislike twhen people states their opinions as facts just because their opinions and ideas belongs to majority. Everyone is individual with their own ways of thinking, therefore someone's opinion might be a real truth for themselves, but that doesn't apply those truths to everyone.

  18. #5018
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    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- Needs more Nicolas Cage

    I don't usually show many emotions myself, but most of Kubo's characters are too bland even in doing so.

  19. #5019

    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- Needs more Nicolas Cage

    Quote Originally Posted by pRopaaNS View Post
    Yeah, perhabs you can see me as alien for being able to empathise with those emotionless fictional characters or whatever.
    I completely agree with you, but that's my point - just because something is harder to relate to that alone doesn't make it actual flaw. Not because it isn't, but because I don't believe in perfection and I'd prefer for artist to express his own ideas than take over socially accepted standartized and stereotypical models and methods. But well, it's your choice if you take anyone who tries to do things his own way as a flawed specimen who doesn't know how society works. Thank you for only trying to understand people whose you can relate with.
    You're just impressing an idea of character onto the blank canvas without knowing you're doing it and because you're naive enough to think there's anything there.

  20. #5020
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    Default Re: Naruto and Bleach IV- Needs more Nicolas Cage

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    You're just impressing an idea of character onto the blank canvas without knowing you're doing it and because you're naive enough to think there's anything there.
    No, for me that black canvas let's me to think through different scenarios and guesses about what those characters might be possibly thinking and what are their intentions. I as artist enjoy using my imagination when reading a story.

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