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Thread: A Song of Ice and Fire (book thread)

  1. #1

    Default A Song of Ice and Fire (book thread)

    talk about ASOIAF (game of thrones) books here instead of the tv show thread.

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  2. #2

    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (book thread)

    So, end of book five.

    Spoiler:
    Who ACTUALLY thinks Jon is dead? Show of hands?

    The scene cut away without showing the aftermath, the very start of the book had the whole out of body experience prologue/new life thing, his wolf is still around, and he's on... interesting terms with the witch of resurrection. Plus he's pretty much the only character carrying the narrative at the wall, there's not really anyone to take his place.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (book thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbyBevard View Post
    So, end of book five.

    Spoiler:
    Who ACTUALLY thinks Jon is dead? Show of hands?

    The scene cut away without showing the aftermath, the very start of the book had the whole out of body experience prologue/new life thing, his wolf is still around, and he's on... interesting terms with the witch of resurrection. Plus he's pretty much the only character carrying the narrative at the wall, there's not really anyone to take his place.
    Do we even need spoiler tags here? Well, I assume so, but whatever.

    Spoiler:
    I'm almost 100% sure he's not dead. If they don't show anyone's throat getting opened, then it's a possibility they're alive. But then again, when they ended his story on such a cliffhanger... it's possible. But I don't think so.


  4. #4
    Aspiring Film Critic TLC's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (book thread)

    Spoiler:
    Him dying wouldn't serve any point in the story. Ned dying had the point of subverting our expectations on how no character is safe and kick-starting the war. The Red Wedding marked the end of the war and forcing the North to its weakest point. Jon dying...shows that life sucks? Point long established Martin but you can't kill characters without their long built up story arcs going no where.
    Last edited by TLC; June 12th, 2013 at 01:57 PM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (book thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by MagiciteKefka View Post
    Do we even need spoiler tags here? Well, I assume so, but whatever.
    If you're going to talk a major plot point like a character death from the most recent book, yes. (even though thats a couple years old now.) Mostly thats just an initial courtesy to show where the topic is going to go... the posts after it probably don't need to bother.

    Just use your best judgement.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (book thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by Thousand Lion-chan View Post
    Spoiler:
    Him dying wouldn't serve any point in the story. Ned dying had the point of subverting our expectations on how no character is safe and kick-starting the war. The Red Wedding marked the end of the war and forcing the North to its weakest point. Jon dying...shows that life sucks? Point long established Martin but you can't kill characters without their long built up story arcs going no where.
    Spoiler:
    I guess that's kinda the point though. If Jon's dead, then that just means that life can abruptly end in this series without his or hers plot threads being tied up nicely. It would be lame, sure, but I can see that happening.


  7. #7

    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (book thread)

    Like I said in the other thread a few weeks ago

    Spoiler:
    There is no point of the prologue if it wasn't foreshadowing in part the fact that Jon presumably warged out into Ghost, or something to that effect.

    There is a 0% chance that Jon is dead for real and has no further role in the story.

  8. #8

    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (book thread)

    Spoiler:
    I think he's dead.
    I also think he'll be back in some form. Inside Ghost, as Coldhands Mk II I dunno.

  9. #9

    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (book thread)

    So yeah, that WILL get annoying fast. Okay, from here on out, just assume anyone in this thread has read to the end of book five.

    We can deal with tags when book 6 comes.
    To support Viz hosting all Jump manga for FREE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (book thread)

    Lol yeah I'll throw myself out for ridicule because I'd like to hear some developed ideas about where this is going and I only have the most basic ideas mapped out:

    SO ANYWAYS JON SNOW BASICALLY GOT STABBED TO DEATH

    But he warged out or something

    Basically the two general theories accepted as far as what I've seen are he's inside of Ghost, or he jumped out and will come back to his body as a whitewalker or something I don't know

    There is also a kind of implicitly understood idea that the raven has something in store for him in the future. I can see something working out with him if Jon is basically a wolf and stuck as one

    I'm not super into the commnunity so I haven't heard much more than that and since both were things I figured would happen anyways it's not very hard to come up with conjecture :') Anything that goes beyond that I have no idea. Like, where he's going in the future as a character is just hazy

    Edit: I forgot some people think he's dead for real but Melisandre will revive him or something, but that's such a clunky and lame idea and it'd be awkward for both he and Caitlin to have that kind of tie to the red god magic. I can't quite see Melisandre really factoring into his pseudo-death.
    Last edited by Pochipochi; June 12th, 2013 at 03:33 PM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (book thread)

    Ha! The craziest theory I heard was that Lady Stoneheart will walk all the way up to the Wall once she has converted the Twins into a factory for Frey pies and administer the kiss of revival to Jon Snow, finishing her quest for redemption (lolwut?).

  12. #12

    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (book thread)

    Haha oh my god that's awful.

    On that note: pretty sure in general the Starks, separated as they are now, have very little reason to ever converge again from a story standpoint. The most likely candidates for ever meeting face to face again are Bran and Jon really and that's it (with where everything is now).

  13. #13

    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (book thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by Holy Hell View Post
    On that note: pretty sure in general the Starks, separated as they are now, have very little reason to ever converge again from a story standpoint. The most likely candidates for ever meeting face to face again are Bran and Jon really and that's it (with where everything is now).
    Its long been my feeling that they'd all end up basically on opposites sides and aligning with opposite forces and sort of have to go against each other ultimately... but their paths are so spread apart now I have no idea.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (book thread)

    I'm with "Death but will be revived", as he has both the "Ice" revival (Warging into a Wight, as the popular theory on Coldhands goes) and "Fire" revival (Via Melissandre's nookie of life, unless she's already a fire zombie, I don't see her giving up her unlife for Jon)

  15. #15

    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (book thread)

    100% sure Jon isn't dead, or if he is, it's only his physical body. Can't imagine that Martin is done with his character just yet.

    Regarding his survival, I have to admit that I really don't like the theory that he will receive the "last kiss" by Melisandre because I don't want to see him turn into a character like Beric or Catelyn, a ghost of their former selves. Melisandre envisioned him first as a man, then a wolf, then a man again, so I think the possibility that he warged into Ghost and will warg back into his or possibly another human body is good. I also don't think there is enough concrete evidence that his wounds were outright fatal. He was stabbed in the stomach and between the shoulder blades, and (likely) an additional wound that he didn't feel. Serious injuries -- absolutely. But still within the realm of survivability. Either way, I doubt we've seen the last of him.


    Also, kudos to separating the series into two threads. It's nice to be able to discuss the book openly.


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  16. #16

    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (book thread)

    ^ tbh there's alot of foreshadowing (or red herrings) that it might happen. Remember how Melisande tried to get a vision of Azor ahai and only saw snow? That could be a reference to that.

    I've heard of other theories that point to jon being the next azor ahai (bloody sigil with a star when jon was stabbed, bowen marsh crying (salt)) but it feels overreaching

    I'm more interested in knowing how martin is going to wrap up the whole meereenese plot, since i don't see any resolution coming since the issue of her people hasn't been resolved.

    Anyway thanks taboo for setting this up. I guess it can be annoying for non-book readers whether they should open a tagged post not knowing whether it's the dreaded book spoilers.

  17. #17

    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (book thread)

    I figure the Meereen stuff will get resolved with the aid of Vicatarion and other characters interfering and she'll basically, somehow, get honked over to Westeros by major influence of other people. I almost wonder if that side of the world will basically be abandoned entirely to fix and fend for itself?

    Also the Azor Ahai thing just always felt like it was going to be Dany.

  18. #18

    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (book thread)

    The mereneese knot is basically taken care of. The dragons got loose and burned the city down, took out most of the plot tangle characters involved in the area, and Dany is about to be a captive. So, pretty much done with the area and ready to move on without having actually fixed it.

    Or have Tyrion finally get involved in some way.
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  19. #19

    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (book thread)

    As unfortunate as that sounds you guys are probably right. I think that meereen getting hosed up while dany takes a leave of absence is the most likely, but barristan's a cool geezer and I don't like his chances. It looks increasingly bad that he's in a catch-24 situation what with all the dragons and ironmen who can't be too happy that dany is flying off.

    Or maybe this will drive home the fact that dany was never meant to be a 'good' queen but a warmongering one who's destined to give fire and blood to her enemies

  20. #20
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    Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (book thread)

    I wonder how much of the Mereneese knot was finished by the time ADWD was published - scratch that, I wonder how many chapters GRRM held back from being published in general despite the ones already mentioned in the wiki.
    In any case, Dany will be on her way to Westeros in one way or another. I expect some POV characters to die along the way, though. Both Barristan and Victarion look like walking corpses to me.
    If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. - Sun Tzu, The Art Of War



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