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Thread: Armchair analysis of the current state of the videogame industry

  1. #1

    Default Armchair analysis of the current state of the videogame industry

    I did not write this, my friend put it on facebook. I do not know what the source is.
    This is just a debate over the slow decay of the video game industry.


    I predict that a video game market crash like the one that happened in the early 80's will happen in the next 5-10 years but I have serious doubts that home consoles will ever recover.

    Why? The fans. The consumer base has become so biased, hardheaded, and cheap that no matter what the industry tries to do it loses money and has to deal with pointless rage.

    Between the HUGE loss of developer profits from piracy and the used game retail stores we will see even more companies file for bankruptcy just like THQ was forced to do.

    I know many people are going to rage about how I fully blame the people who play video games for the entire industry crashing so let me point out a few things that will make it a bit clearer for you.

    If a company has a long-standing series and they decide to change it they will be met with scorn and nerdrage causing a loss in sales due to mass spamming of negative reviews (often before the game has even been released.). If they don't change anything they will be met with scorn and nerdrage causing a loss in sales due to mass spamming of negative reviews (often before the game has even been released.).

    If a company switches from making sequels of a long-running series to work on a new franchise they are met with scorn and nerdrage resulting in a loss of sales due to mass spamming of negative reviews (often before the game has even been released.) Again, the same thing happens if they do the exact opposite as well.

    I think you get the point.

    If you truly want to get home console gaming around for years to come there are 3 things you will need to do:

    1. Stop condemning games before a demo is even released. A prime example of this is the DmC reboot. You picky-ass, snobish twats were raging about how "horrible" the game was BEFORE YOU EVEN HAD A FUCKING CHANCE TO PLAY IT ALL BECAUSE THEY CHANGED HOW THE MAIN CHARACTER LOOKED!

    2. Stop pirating games. If you are so poor that you cannot afford to buy games then your broke ass should be out making money somehow instead of sitting in front of your tv/computer. Unfortunately many people fail to realize that playing video games is a L-U-X-U-R-Y and not a "god given right."

    Side note: If piracy wasn't such a problem then developers wouldn't have to implement things like DRM into their games.

    3. Stop buying used games. The developers see 0% percent of that money. The less money they make, the less money they can put towards new game development. The less money they can put towards new game development, the more likely it is they will simply stop making games in franchises that aren't selling well.

    To end this on a rather painful but truthful note: Do you want to know the real reason why all those recent Megaman titles were cancelled? The market for them is dead. Yes, the few fans that remain are very (annoyingly and retardedly) vocal but compared to most of the other franchises Capcom has it is not worth wasting the money to make them since they will not sell enough copies. They would need at LEAST 2-2.5 million copies sold to make even a small amount of profit but they would be lucky to get just under a million mostly because many people would wait to buy it secondhand or would boycott it over some petty and minor change the developers implemented.
    WHAT!!!
    GO AWAY!!

  2. #2

    Default Re: The second video game crash debate

    Honestly, I agree the consumer base needs to change our attitudes, but to say the corporate side is blameless is ridiculous. Developers can cut back on costs, but they don't. The fact that they need to sell millions of copies to make a profit is a fault on both the consumer base and the corporations.
    And how can you call the people who are demanding megaman games a small but vocal group, but not stop to consider that the people bombarding things with mass hate are ALSO a vocal minority. Honestly, it's ridiculous for change to come from only one side, and its ridiculous to say that only consumers are at fault.
    Gamers need to learn to try new things and be more open-minded, but companies need to be more effective at managing their money, cutting down development costs, and being more receptive to consumer opinion. You can NEVER please everyone, but having a vocal hateful minority doesn't mean a company can't make money

  3. #3
    Must've been rats Sakonosolo's Avatar
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    Default Re: The second video game crash debate

    DmC had a lot more problems than how the character looked. I never played any of the games but the complaints were about the gameplay mechanics and other things too.

    I would say that the loss in profits is more to do with how developers spend the development money than because of piracy. Piracy has always existed when it comes to video games, why is it just now causing "loss of profits" or whatever. Spending so much money on marketing and Hollywood actors for voices inflates the development cost (to an even high extent than graphics do, though people bring those up more). Not to mention that for whatever reason, console development typically costs more. For instance, porting TW2 to the 360 cost the same as developing the entire game originally, effectively doubling the budget, and then the 360 version sold poorly. This was also an issue for Stalker 2 and one of the reasons that GSC went under apparently, though it wasn't the sole reason.

    I don't think this crash will happen. It happened originally because of how small the industry was back then. "It's too big to fail" has been disproved a lot in the past but while I don't think a crash exactly like the one in the past will happen again I can see some scaling back. Developers need to get their heads out of their asses though and stop blaming their customers when their shitty game with half or more of its budget spent on marketing and Hollywood quality voice acting doesn't sell the 5 million copies it needs to make a profit.

  4. #4

    Default Re: The second video game crash debate

    Developers barely get to see the profit for their games after the first week. It's the publishers who don't like used games because they are the ones who don't get money from them when they get money from all new copies. Developers or consumers are not the ones at fault in that case; it's publishers.

    In fact, publishers are the ones who are responsible for most of the ills of the game industry as is; what with their drm and anti consumer practices.

  5. #5
    Great sage,equal of heaven Darkstorm's Avatar
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    Default Re: The second video game crash debate

    Apart from the bit about not pirating(which is an exercise in stating the bloody obvious, every content industry has this problem), that post is basically uninformed garbage. The DmC reboot was panned for a multitude of reasons; the franchise being handed to a studio with a reputation for mediocre games, the studio totally changing the look of the game and then being rather obnoxious about it in interviews, and most importantly of all the gameplay mechanics being changed to a rather more shallow system, which was evident from a fairly early point and which in the end resulted in a game that - while the best game ninja theory had ever put out - was far away from bettering what went before.

    "Stop buying used games" is probably the most insulting part of the article. People have the right to sell their property. Though I very much dislike the way large chains try to "persuade" people to buy used, that's not really the consumers fault.

    The Megaman games were cancelled because inafune left and capcom wanted to kill his projects.

  6. #6

    Default Re: The second video game crash debate

    3. Stop buying used games. The developers see 0% percent of that money. The less money they make, the less money they can put towards new game development. The less money they can put towards new game development, the more likely it is they will simply stop making games in franchises that aren't selling well.
    Stop charging 60-70 dollars out the gate for games? For a game I *reeeeeeally* want that I've been anticipating for a long time or have super loved the earlier games in the franchise... I might pay that much, but aside from *importing* One Piece Musou, I can't remember the last time I was willing to pay more than 50 for a game, and I usually hew closer to the 20-30$ range. And since I have a pile, I'm generally fine with waiting.

    If they want to stop the used thing, just personally put out a price cut on your own titles after X amount of time. If there's no reward for getting used, people will get new. (If its a 5$ difference between used and new, I'll go new. If it's a 30-40 dollar difference, I'll get used.) People that want to be in on the ground floor or part of the multiplayer community will still get it up front, It's what they do with game of the year editions and greatest hits... those are available for 20$ after a year... does anyone bother with the used versions at that point? Or do they buy the actual new, but cheaper game from the company?

    Or maybe, don't charge full price for digitial downloads. No disk, no box, no production cost, no distributor or retailer taking out 60% of the profit.... the company probably makes roughly the same profit on a 25$ digital download as they do on a 60$ physical disk copy of the same game since all the middlemen are taken out... (I can't say for sure without knowing what percentage Sony and X-Box take out for using their online stores) so pass that to the consumers and motivate them to support you directly. (especially since you aren't selling them a hard copy.) Don't charge 60$ for a download... and then keep adding pay-for DLC. You don't have to undercut the physical copy by *that* much, but... put some consideration into the different format and product and price it accordingly, and get people buying *directly* from you.

    (Kinda like comic books being 99 cents for digital compared to 4 dollars for a paper copy, or music cds being 99 cents a song for 8 songs, but 13 dollars for the same 8 songs on disk.)

    Also, they need to refigure their production philosophy. WHen you budget and market a game in such a way that it takes an entire console generation to develop, or you have to sell 6 million full-price copies to turn a profit, there's a problem with your development.

    (Even Journey, the highest selling PSN game, one of the most acclaimed games of last year, broke the company prior to the game coming out due to them taking three years to make it instead of one. Final product I can't argue with, but... that's not a good release schedule philosophy.)
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  7. #7

    Default Re: The second video game crash debate

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbyBevard View Post

    Or maybe, don't charge full price for digitial downloads. No disk, no box, no production cost, no distributor or retailer taking out 60% of the profit.... the company makes the same profit on a 25$ digital download as they do on a 60$ physical disk copy of the same game... so pass that to the consumers and motivate them to support you directly. (especially since you aren't selling them a hard copy.) Don't charge 60$ for a download... and then keep adding pay-for DLC.

    (Kinda like comic books being 99 cents for digital compared to 4 dollars for a paper copy, or music cds being 99 cents a song for 8 songs, but 13 dollars for the same 8 songs on disk.)
    That's actually the retailers fault. Since they make no cut from downloadable services, retailers tend to threaten publishers by not stocking their games if they're priced lower. Though in that case publishers just need to man up a bit I feel and take the chance.

  8. #8

    Default Re: The second video game crash debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkstorm View Post
    The Megaman games were cancelled because inafune left and capcom wanted to kill his projects.
    That and Legends series was the red headed stepchild of the Megaman series for some odd reason. Megaman Universe getting canceled was probably for the best though.
    Last edited by Green_vs_Red; April 20th, 2013 at 03:03 PM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: The second video game crash debate

    Whenever DmC is brought up in these kinds of discussions all I can think about is all the shitty game "journalists" who atributed the low sales to "gamer entitlement."

    That's right, you're entitled if you didn't by a game you weren't interested in.

    But even funnier than that is that prior to DmC when the words "gamer entitlement" showed up "if you don't like it, don't buy it" was usually close by. So people don't by a game they don't want, and whoops, they're still entitled.



    The dumb strawman about the main character's hair color being the sole concern is what will really destroy the industry. If every legitimate complaint can be invalidated so easily game publishers will never have to listen to any consumer feedback ever again.

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  10. #10

    Default Re: The second video game crash debate

    Well, I'm glad I just got into PC gaming then. .....but really though, publishers/developers need to start getting better at budgeting their titles while having realistic expectations rather than expecting to make millions of sales off of a brand new title or even reboot sometimes.

    For point 1, you can't blame people for not buying a game especially when fans didn't like the way the atmosphere of the game started to seem to go while being ridiculed and an action system that was an obvious attempt at a larger audience that never showed up.

    For point 2, I don't have proof backing up, but I'd say at least 70-80% of pirated downloads are people who wouldn't have bought the game or at least not until it was down to about $20 or less anyway a year later.

    For point 3, this doesn't matter to the average consumer who doesn't even know how used sales work. I get new myself only getting used if I don't really care about supporting a series and there's a deal or if the only version of the game now is used.

  11. #11

    Default Re: The second video game crash debate

    I want a wise opnion on this question: Was delaying Rayman Legends by turning into a multi-platform title a good financial idea? Could they at least release early for Wii U and then to the other consoles?

  12. #12

    Default Re: The second video game crash debate

    The reason why it's delayed is because Sony or Microsoft, or even both, have a "me-first" policy when it comes to multi-platform releases, according to what I've read. Otherwise unless the port has a whole bunch of new content they wouldn't even bother approving it.
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  13. #13

    Default Re: The second video game crash debate

    Quote Originally Posted by KageKageKing View Post
    I want a wise opnion on this question: Was delaying Rayman Legends by turning into a multi-platform title a good financial idea? Could they at least release early for Wii U and then to the other consoles?
    I'd say it wasn't. It was one of the most hyped games on the Wii U and most likely would have sold well on it as long as the budget on it wasn't huge for some reason. Since they have delayed it, the price for extra time in development as well as the costs of porting it to other consoles have to be taken into account. Most of all, it'll be releasing close to GTAV which will be what most people will be putting all of their money into. I can't say for certain since we're still not close to release now, but I feel a lot of the hype for the game will be less than what it was.

    For the second question, they couldn't. Microsoft has a rule that they do not take games if they've been released on another console before-hand.
    Last edited by Zack; April 20th, 2013 at 04:44 PM.

  14. #14
    Great sage,equal of heaven Darkstorm's Avatar
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    Default Re: The second video game crash debate

    Plus nintendo will probably have upped gears by then and the wii u version will go out into a more crowded marketplace, probably selling less into the bargain, even with the larger installbase...while the ps3 versions and 360 will have sold what they would have done anyway. Bizarre decision.

  15. #15

    Default Re: The second video game crash debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Zack View Post
    I'd say it was. It was one of the most hyped games on the Wii U and most likely would have sold well on it as long as the budget on it wasn't huge for some reason. Since they have delayed it, the price for extra time in development as well as the costs of porting it to other consoles have to be taken into account. Most of all, it'll be releasing close to GTAV which will be what most people will be putting all of their money into. I can't say for certain since we're still not close to release now, but I feel a lot of the hype for the game will be less than what it was. For the second question, they couldn't. Microsoft has a rule that they do not take games if they've been released on another console before-hand.
    I'm guessing all those GTA releases on the PS2 must've made them bitter and jealous.

  16. #16

    Default Re: The second video game crash debate

    Quote Originally Posted by bartholemew kuma View Post
    They would need at LEAST 2-2.5 million copies sold to make even a small amount of profit
    That is the only part of the post that is worth anything at all.

    Blame consumers all you want, but it is just bullshit and not true.

    It's purely on the gaming companies. If they are making games that need to sell 2+ million to make a profit, then they are themselves to blame.

    Heck just recently SE was bitching about poor sales of Tomb Raider, Hitman and Sleeping Dogs. For reference they sold 3.4 million, 3.6 million and 1.75 million respectively. If those numbers are making a company upset or losing money, it is not the consumers fault. Just so you know as well. Tomb Raider beat its old records for launching sales. So a game sells better than it ever has before and a company is still getting pissed about low numbers.

    Sorry but your friend is an idiot. Don't blame us consumers, blame the industry. They are the ones ruining themselves.

  17. #17

    Default Re: The second video game crash debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Zack View Post
    I'd say it was. It was one of the most hyped games on the Wii U and most likely would have sold well on it as long as the budget on it wasn't huge for some reason. Since they have delayed it, the price for extra time in development as well as the costs of porting it to other consoles have to be taken into account. Most of all, it'll be releasing close to GTAV which will be what most people will be putting all of their money into. I can't say for certain since we're still not close to release now, but I feel a lot of the hype for the game will be less than what it was.
    I don't understand this post at all. You said it was a good idea, but then you stated reasons on why it wasn't.

  18. #18

    Default Re: The second video game crash debate

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    I don't understand this post at all. You said it was a good idea, but then you stated reasons on why it wasn't.
    My bad. When I was replying, I thought the question was 'Was it a bad idea?'. Changed it now.

  19. #19

    Default Re: The second video game crash debate

    The thread's title should be changed to:

    "Armchair analysis of the current state of the videogame industry"

  20. #20

    Default Re: The second video game crash debate

    Quote Originally Posted by bartholemew kuma View Post
    I did not write this, my friend put it on facebook. I do not know what the source is.
    This is just a debate over the slow decay of the video game industry.


    I predict that a video game market crash like the one that happened in the early 80's will happen in the next 5-10 years but I have serious doubts that home consoles will ever recover.

    Why? The fans. The consumer base has become so biased, hardheaded, and cheap that no matter what the industry tries to do it loses money and has to deal with pointless rage.

    Between the HUGE loss of developer profits from piracy and the used game retail stores we will see even more companies file for bankruptcy just like THQ was forced to do.

    I know many people are going to rage about how I fully blame the people who play video games for the entire industry crashing so let me point out a few things that will make it a bit clearer for you.

    If a company has a long-standing series and they decide to change it they will be met with scorn and nerdrage causing a loss in sales due to mass spamming of negative reviews (often before the game has even been released.). If they don't change anything they will be met with scorn and nerdrage causing a loss in sales due to mass spamming of negative reviews (often before the game has even been released.).

    If a company switches from making sequels of a long-running series to work on a new franchise they are met with scorn and nerdrage resulting in a loss of sales due to mass spamming of negative reviews (often before the game has even been released.) Again, the same thing happens if they do the exact opposite as well.

    I think you get the point.

    If you truly want to get home console gaming around for years to come there are 3 things you will need to do:

    1. Stop condemning games before a demo is even released. A prime example of this is the DmC reboot. You picky-ass, snobish twats were raging about how "horrible" the game was BEFORE YOU EVEN HAD A FUCKING CHANCE TO PLAY IT ALL BECAUSE THEY CHANGED HOW THE MAIN CHARACTER LOOKED!

    2. Stop pirating games. If you are so poor that you cannot afford to buy games then your broke ass should be out making money somehow instead of sitting in front of your tv/computer. Unfortunately many people fail to realize that playing video games is a L-U-X-U-R-Y and not a "god given right."

    Side note: If piracy wasn't such a problem then developers wouldn't have to implement things like DRM into their games.

    3. Stop buying used games. The developers see 0% percent of that money. The less money they make, the less money they can put towards new game development. The less money they can put towards new game development, the more likely it is they will simply stop making games in franchises that aren't selling well.

    To end this on a rather painful but truthful note: Do you want to know the real reason why all those recent Megaman titles were cancelled? The market for them is dead. Yes, the few fans that remain are very (annoyingly and retardedly) vocal but compared to most of the other franchises Capcom has it is not worth wasting the money to make them since they will not sell enough copies. They would need at LEAST 2-2.5 million copies sold to make even a small amount of profit but they would be lucky to get just under a million mostly because many people would wait to buy it secondhand or would boycott it over some petty and minor change the developers implemented.

    Basically....no to this entire argument. The problem with game developers nowadays is that they try to serve the casual audience. By making everything mainstream, they remove features. When they realize people are complaining of non innovation, they slowly start to "innovate" the game with reused features from previous games. With this, things become annualized and stale and while I understand that the consumer market nowadays is really really..... you know what i mean, publishers begin to let go many of the people that can't make their standards as money making machines.

    It is the publishing industry's fault. If somehow developers could go back and create games based on love and passion, then the industry would be doing 10x better right now. But, sadly as of now we are stuck with the majority of shitty games we have.

    Games that represent this are: Battlefield 3, Every CoD game after 4, Devil May Cry, Final Fantasy, Mass Effect etc.
    This is all because their publishers wanted to serve the casual. I cannot tell you how frustrated I was when two of my favorite series, Battlefield and Mass Effect were both ruined by EA by 1. Dumbing down Battlefield 3 as that game was developed completely different from the original idea, which was much closer to BF2 and 2. ME3's ending. Both of these things were caused by some obnoxious deadline that both the companies had to complete their games in. Sad but true.


    There are very few game series that I truly respect and they are: Grand Theft Auto, Metal Gear, Shin Megami Tensei, Monster Hunter, and Pokemon (While their games have been almost the same for 15 years, they actually come with many new features every game)

    Rockstar, Kojima Productions, Naughty Dog, Clover Studios, Level 5, and Atlas are some the best companies that still take pride in their games.
    Last edited by Gia Sado; April 20th, 2013 at 07:37 PM.

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