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Thread: Dragon Age III: Inquisition

  1. #21
    Terminally Apathetic y2kyle89's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dragon Age III: Inquisition

    Quote Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
    Oh, man. There better be a reference in the game. (I would think so. The Bioware team is nerdy enough.)
    So... you would be expecting the Spanish Inquisition?
    Quote Originally Posted by John Adams
    I have always been dissatisfied, I know that. But lately I find I reek of discontentment; it fills my throat and floods my brain. Sometimes I fear there's no longer a dream but only the discontentment.

  2. #22
    The English Avenger Satsuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dragon Age III: Inquisition

    I would never EXPECT it (God forbid!), I'm just hoping for one.

  3. #23
    The Lion Leon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dragon Age III: Inquisition

    I just hope Dragon Age series doesn't get dumbed down like the Fable series. Anyways,
    http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/10/...o%2BAnnotation
    Last edited by Leon; April 30th, 2014 at 10:01 PM.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Dragon Age III: Inquisition

    I feel like Bioware really needs to put out something excellent here, between the negative backlashes they've got with DA2, ME3, SWTOR, and the Doctors retiring, it seems like a lot of people have lost faith in them.

    Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible. - Frank Zappa

  5. #25
    The English Avenger Satsuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dragon Age III: Inquisition

    The pillar of faith has definitely been shaken. Although a lot of Bioware fans are wondering just how much of the disappointment has to do with EA taking over.

    I haven't seen enough to break my faith, however. I don't think DA2 was nearly as bad as some claim it as, and aside from that goddamn ending ME3 was a highly credited game. It's just the backlash over the ending was so intense.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Dragon Age III: Inquisition

    ^ and with good reason specifically when you look at how the dlc was handled.
    Javik being day 1 dlc is quite the bummer, I've heard a lot of people say that leviathan helped the narrative towards the ending a lot, the extended cut of course also helps.

    It's not particulary likable to have a game's story feel more complete with dlc...

    My biggest gripe is that me3 just felt as rushed/lazy at places as da2...
    Last edited by DarthAsthma; December 27th, 2012 at 10:57 PM.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Dragon Age III: Inquisition

    I honestly never understood the massive hate DA2 got. Yeah, it can be a bit boring mostly being in city, but almost everything about it is improved over the first. The characters, the combat, the story, everything that matters in an RPG. So yeah, I actually prefer it over DA. Haven't played ME3 yet though, though I bought it for the Wii U yesterday.


  8. #28

    Default Re: Dragon Age III: Inquisition

    Quote Originally Posted by MagiciteKefka View Post
    The characters
    Debatable, though I liked them from what I saw.
    the combat
    I personally can't stand it, and it's the main reason I can't personally bother to play the game any further.
    the story
    Debatable again. From what I've seen(without actually playing, so take this statement for what it's worth), the story is full of good ideas that simply don't do nearly as well in execution.

    though I bought it for the Wii U yesterday.
    Well, the good news is that it comes packaged with the EC already on disc, so you don't have to worry about seeing the original horrid ending(though many people still think it's pretty bad.)

  9. #29

    Default Re: Dragon Age III: Inquisition

    @kefka

    Well nothing against you liking da2 but if you really think that almost everything that matters(it's probably more like everything that matters to you) in an rpg was improved upon(also very debatable) da2 you're wearing some strong pink googles.

    We have less customization be it in character skills or equipment and that's in my opinion an rpg staple, that matters. We have a much lesser variety of enviroments which is also important because it helps immersion, you know people complained about how brown DA was but in terms of monotony DA2 feels quite a bit worse. No modding support and why that matters look and another juggernaut, skyrim. It allows the aspect of customization to be strengthen by the community and that's worth a whole lot.

    Also how about feeling invested in your character, I'm sure there a people that connected to hawke but I think even those people have to admit that the origin stories did a much better job making you care about your character than the poor introduction of da2 that revolved around pulling from the bioware drama staple "kill a character at the beginning after you established an arbitrary bond". "Here are your siblings" bond established...

    Combat was improved? I beg to differ massively, combat was just a boring with the insanely stupid wave design, that also kind of didn't help for immersion.
    Instead of killing blow animations we got enemy exploding because that's of course better... they didn't even care to add new ones for the special enemies nope reused from DA. The only 2 things that I can say about it, it was faster and that's something people seemed to like and something a bit more objectively justifiable it was undeniably improved for consoles. Too bad as pc player I got screwed out of the tactical camera for that.

    And than there is the really, really cheap writing at times (which is arguably the most important) that just screams to me yeah we didn't have enough resources.

    I think it's pretty impressive that bioware could deliver da 2 in something like 18 months time, but I'm not going to stand for a game that cuts corners so obviously, especially when you can see the kind of love they put into DA. I'm just too cynical to enjoy a game that destroys any form of immersion I want to built with a big fat sign around every corner that reads "cut corners".
    Me having a good idea about most though processes that very likely went into the different design decision doesn't help either.

    There is a much more ambitious game hidden in da2 and the way they setup the production is actually impressivly smart(which shouldn't be surprising since those guys have the knowledge of how to produce something like the ME trilogy) but yeah the game seems like something that had half of what it should have been cut.
    Last edited by DarthAsthma; December 28th, 2012 at 07:12 AM.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Dragon Age III: Inquisition

    I guess I have to establish something. I love the combat in the first DA. The tactical aspects reminded me of a new version of Baldur's Gate, which I adore. It's just that the quick nature of the combat in DA2 suits me more. I also like the fact that they actually did a different combat system, instead of using the exact same one.

    Sure, I can nitpick if you like. I can completely pick apart DA2, because it has a lot of minor flaws. I just choose to ignore them. So yes, I enjoy 2 more than 1.


  11. #31

    Default Re: Dragon Age III: Inquisition

    ^ da2 does not only have minor flaws, that's pretty much the point of why the community was upset. If you only have nitpick stuff for yourself, well ok, but I think it's not very hard to recognize that a lot of the flaws people have been raving about are not really part of a normal nitpick list.

    The thing I always have a hard time relating to is sure I can get why people like da2 what I can't get is people just blatantly ignoring all of the massive shortcomings that are very much evidently caused by budget/production time reasons.

    It shouldn't matter if you like da2 more than da or da more than da2 everyone should be on the train wagon of demanding a game that doesn't scream those things.

  12. #32

    Default Re: Dragon Age III: Inquisition

    Well, sure, I think DA2 could have been a lot better with some more time and effort. I do think that the basic bone structure of the game is better than the bone structure of DA. And yeah, I don't think that the "massive flaws" are as massive as other people do. I like Kirkwall, I like the villain, I like the player characters. So the only real flaws are minor to me. Keep in mind that people have different opinions on what is good and what isn't.


  13. #33

    Default Re: Dragon Age III: Inquisition

    Varric singlehandedly made up for a lot of shortcomings. He was great and fun to watch and listen to the entire game and I don't think he ever left my party. (He's my chronicler, he has to stay in!)

    Aveline and Isabella were also pretty good, at least when they were together. And hey, Dog was just a summon, not taking up a party slot this time! Anders/Justice was an interesting dynamic to watch unfold. Merrill and Fenris weren't that great, and Bethany/Carver were awkward because they were killed or storied out of the game for 2/3 of it. So, while the first game had Allistair, Morrigan, Shale and Sten as standouts, and Leiliana was okay, I never cared much for Zevran, Ogren or Wynee. So the games for me are about even on the "great characters/decent characters/forgettable characters" count. And I didn't have either of the two DLC characters from DA2, so they mighta been great. I don't know. (And I'm well aware other people will have different favorites and cries of "How can you not like X character?" After two playtrhoughs of both games its where I settled.)

    While your combat options were reduced heavily if you played a mage, (For example, no making oil slicks and setting them on fire) playing as a thief was MUCH improved and way smoother compared to the first game.

    I liked a lot about DA2. They improved and fixed a lot of little things that bugged me about part 1... and I personally liked being in one place the whole time. Had time to get used to it and really learn the layout. The actual gameplay time was about the same, and there were still enough maps and new locations that it wasn't endlessly going to the same place repeatedly like some people complained... it was hitting the same spots 3 or 4 times in the course of 60 hours... which happened in the first game too! Maybe not as much, but it did. (I play Musou games. THOSE are revisiting the same maps endlessly.) The whole "its been three years so things have changed a bit" dynamic worked for me when it came to revisiting those spots as well.

    I personally didn't care about companion customization... one of the most annoying things for me in the first game was always holding onto loot until I got back to camp and then trying it on everyone to see if it was 1 or 2 points better than what they had or if they had the stats for it... and that was really tiresome. I know inventory management is a huge part of the game for some people, and I'm okay with it in some games... it gets old fast when you have 8,000 pieces of more or less identical equipment dropped along the way and a carrying limit.

    I can see and get the problems a lot of people had with it though. Those problems and shortcuts are definitely there and you can see the reduced development time. Luckily, in my personal case, the things they cut that other people liked were things I didn't care about or was annoyed by anyway... and the things they fixed were the the bits I had problems with!

    If I have any one big complaint its that the plot railroads you into the exact same ending outcome no matter which side you choose. It would have been perfectly fine to get just *one* of the two final bosses depending on which side you were on... the storyline effect would have still been the same. That bit felt like really cutting into your freedom of choice.
    Last edited by Robby; December 28th, 2012 at 09:04 AM.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Dragon Age III: Inquisition

    Quote Originally Posted by MagiciteKefka View Post
    Well, sure, I think DA2 could have been a lot better with some more time and effort. I do think that the basic bone structure of the game is better than the bone structure of DA. And yeah, I don't think that the "massive flaws" are as massive as other people do. I like Kirkwall, I like the villain, I like the player characters. So the only real flaws are minor to me. Keep in mind that people have different opinions on what is good and what isn't.
    I should clarify that the point by which I judged something as massive is how fundamental it is to its design. I'm not just going off by what I don't like.
    For example repetitive levels are undeniably a problem, that's a concious design choice made by the production contraints, to fix it, it takes fundamental commitment of resources from different departments. So it is a massive problem that sure you can perceive as small but that does not change its nature.
    The same thing about companion customization.

    I think I've been very careful in taking different tastes into consideration but I think I made it clear that the real main problem for me is just how rushed the whole thing is, this isn't a matter of thinking what is good or bad. I think even if DA2 had all the time it needed I would still like DA better because DA just gives me that BG feel which I like more.
    That said it doesn't stop me from seeing a game in DA2 that could be a lot better.


    Quote Originally Posted by RobbyBevard View Post
    I personally didn't care about companion customization... one of the most annoying things for me in the first game was always holding onto loot until I got back to camp and then trying it on everyone to see if it was 1 or 2 points better than what they had or if they had the stats for it... and that was really tiresome. I know inventory management is a huge part of the game for some people, and I'm okay with it in some games... it gets old fast when you have 8,000 pieces of more or less identical equipment dropped along the way and a carrying limit.
    As someone that liked companion customization I agree with your complaints. I take a lot more issue in the fact that they dropped it instead of fixing it.

    I'm going to make a few assumptions now that I feel that are pretty safe to make.
    I think the aspects people probably enjoy about character custumization is having agency over the change of your companions.
    Now the two big things are of course visual change and than a change in power. What I feel prevents a lot of people from enjoying those two is probably the fiddly nature of stuff and rummaging through endless item lists.

    Now those are things that I don't think have anything to do with the fundamental feature of companion customization but more with how it was presented. I totally agree that DA had almost no payoff for customizing, those tiny 1-2 points for every upgrade are really bad. The menus for managing are oldschool clusterfuck and you have to do way to much clicking to get things done.

    I'm almost sure that if you solve the problems around how info is presented to you(this I feel is one of the most important and very few rpgs have gotten it right), streamlining of how you navigate around that stuff, trying to make every upgrade feel meaningful and most important of all make them visually appealing(which probably has the most value) you'll end up with a system that I think a substantial amount of people will be happy with and maybe even like to the point of never wanting it to let go again.

    And sure even the people that dislike fiddling with that sort of thing to the core I think even they could get around that if the payoff is worth it, why I think that? Well just looking at most mmo's or any kind of social games people do a lot of boring and annoying stuff to earn something they feel has value to them.


    Sidenote: Also what was up with trash items in DA2? Had zero value, no even worse it had minus value. Instead of going with your new deisgn philosophy of trimming everything annoying out you go add trash items... A thing that just exists to force one extra click onto people to get their gold (and oh I know the design decision behind it was probably to make people feel rewarded that they are constantly looting but I've yet to meet the person that felt rewarded by that).
    Last edited by DarthAsthma; December 28th, 2012 at 08:53 AM.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Dragon Age III: Inquisition

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthAsthma View Post
    Sidenote: Also what was up with trash items in DA2? Had zero value, no even worse it had minus value. Instead of going with your new deisgn philosophy of trimming everything annoying out you go add trash items... A thing that just exists to force one extra click onto people to get their gold (and oh I know the design decision behind it was probably to make people feel rewarded that they are constantly looting but I've yet to meet the person that felt rewarded by that).
    There were tons of items in the first game that had no effect at all that you would get that were worthless, that you would then put in the trash, and sell off.

    Making them trash items that automatically went into the "to sell" pile actually took out a step, it didn't add one.

    It was actually a simplification I really liked. Streamlined item management.

    The big difference is those garbage items often had flavor text in the first game.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Dragon Age III: Inquisition

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbyBevard View Post
    There were tons of items in the first game that had no effect at all that you would get that were worthless, that you would then put in the trash, and sell off.

    Making them trash items that automatically went into the "to sell" pile actually took out a step, it didn't add one.

    The big difference is those garbage items often had flavor text in the first game.
    I totally don't remember those.
    Still trash items are bad(doesn't matter which game), that's the kind of streamlining that I can't imagine anyone could have a problem with.
    Just give people the gold right away.

    Also yeah it still feels like the weirdest decision to leave them in a game that at its core tried streamlining a lot of stuff.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Dragon Age III: Inquisition

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthAsthma View Post
    I totally don't remember those.
    Yeah, you found broken swords and rubies and bloody parts all the time that didn't actually do anything. Ocassionally it would be a quest item, but usually it was just junk that you'd then have to decide to toss, and then sell. Or when you find 12 of the exact same darkspawn blade.

    It retains part of the management allotment because those things still have weight and take up space. So it leads to the question of "do you want to carry this useless item to turn it into gold later, or would you rather have something useful in your bag?" if it turned into auto-gold, it wouldn't take up any backpack space.

    Again, the big difference is they didn't have flavor text this time.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthAsthma View Post
    As someone that liked companion customization I agree with your complaints. I take a lot more issue in the fact that they dropped it instead of fixing it.
    The biggest probelm is when you get items that are ALMOST identical, but have slightly different effects on them... and then you ahve to go "well, at some point I might want this character to have an advantage at that particular thing... better hold onto it." so suddenly you're holding 6 different potential weapons for Sten that don't really noticeably do anything different (But might be different visually) ... and you had to keep weighing and considering differences for almost no real effect.

    At least when the items were straight up identical it was an easy choice... except when they had different flavor texts.

    the other problem is you inevitably find the best armor or weapons through a random drop and equip it, and then the next 200 pieces you look at are inferior... but you still spend the time looking at them.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Dragon Age III: Inquisition

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbyBevard View Post
    Yeah, you found broken swords and rubies and bloody parts all the time that didn't actually do anything. Ocassionally it would be a quest item, but usually it was just junk that you'd then have to decide to toss, and then sell. Or when you find 12 of the exact same darkspawn blade.

    It retains part of the management allotment because those things still have weight and take up space. So it leads to the question of "do you want to carry this useless item to turn it into gold later, or would you rather have something useful in your bag?" if it turned into auto-gold, it wouldn't take up any backpack space.
    Weird I never had those problems in both games(although I usually loot everything) thus it just felt unneccesary and useless, also as much as I'm pro companion customization I personally probably lack the same enthusiasm for inventory weight management, but I sure would be interested in hearing from a die hard fan of that what that adds to the game.

    Also yeah again totally on point on these other problems regarding companion customization.
    As for item progression that actually a thing I've seen a lot of rpgs struggle with that make use of randomization for items in any shape or form. The last game that I played that did it right despite that is torchlight 2.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Dragon Age III: Inquisition

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthAsthma View Post
    Weird I never had those problems in both games(although I usually loot everything) thus it just felt unneccesary and useless, also as much as I'm pro companion customization I personally probably lack the same enthusiasm for inventory weight management, but I sure would be interested in hearing from a die hard fan of that what that adds to the game.
    If you sold off all your stuff after every dungeon crawl and bought all the backpack upgrades... and you weren't carrying extra sets of swords and armor, it wasn't a big deal.

    But if you WERE carrying around an extra set of armor and a couple weapons, along with some junk weapons you were just going to sell, and a handful of potions, it filled your inventory FAST. It was a constant problem for me, and its a major one in Elder Scrolls. (In there you eventually start taking a companion with you just to have extra storage capacity.)

    Well, do I want Sten to have a two handed sword that does 5 extra damage or do I want a weaker mace that sets things on fire or do I want the one that allows better healing? whelp, better carry a whole mess of mages staffs just in case!

  20. #40

    Default Re: Dragon Age III: Inquisition

    http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/01/...7a78c02f000028

    With knowing that DA3 will be powered by frostbyte it's no surprise that the game will very much look significantly better than all its predecessors but this
    seems to confirm that DA3 will also feature a different artstyle.

    I'm curious what it will look like. A different form of cartoonish, watercolour, filtered?

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