View Poll Results: who is the strongest now living char in OP?

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  • Shanks

    101 23.43%
  • Mihawk

    9 2.09%
  • Kizaru

    8 1.86%
  • Dragon

    75 17.40%
  • Akainu

    27 6.26%
  • Big Mom

    3 0.70%
  • Kaido

    42 9.74%
  • Kuzan

    1 0.23%
  • the grosei

    18 4.18%
  • Garp

    7 1.62%
  • Sengoku

    1 0.23%
  • Blackbeard

    100 23.20%
  • Marco

    6 1.39%
  • Kuma

    4 0.93%
  • other

    29 6.73%
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Thread: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

  1. #9341

    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    I'm noticing a bizarre overlap between the "Blackbbeard's unredeemably evil and ends don't justify the means" and the "Tama did nothing wrong, she's punishing criminals" crowds here. Guess the missing teeth are the dead giveaway of evil.
    Curiosity has its own reason for existing

  2. #9342
    Chocolate or raisins? Coookie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfiere View Post
    I'm noticing a bizarre overlap between the "Blackbbeard's unredeemably evil and ends don't justify the means" and the "Tama did nothing wrong, she's punishing criminals" crowds here. Guess the missing teeth are the dead giveaway of evil.
    Dunno about irredeemable, but I don't think anyone tried to sell Tama as a saint. That was my justification for her actions in any case, the protagonists and their allies aren't exclusively do-gooders who are only allowed to use morally acceptable actions. They did plenty of things that can be considered "evil" and in the eyes of the general populace they didn't save, they are.

  3. #9343
    The Golden Witch otakufan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfiere View Post
    I'm noticing a bizarre overlap between the "Blackbbeard's unredeemably evil and ends don't justify the means" and the "Tama did nothing wrong, she's punishing criminals" crowds here. Guess the missing teeth are the dead giveaway of evil.
    When Tama's rise to power begins by stabbing someone who was by all accounts a brother to her in the back, then I'll probably be more willing to concede the point.

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  4. #9344
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    What is interesting about the Blackbeard pirates is that they to some degree feel they aren't choosing to do things as much as they are compelled to do things by fate.
    I mean I dont like fate so that wouldnt be much of a positive. But also I feel Blackbeard clesrly wants to win and has already pick the way he wants to win like getting the yami and becoming a warlord so I dont really think he feels compell to do stuff. More like he has a goal he wants and is trying to find the way to it.



  5. #9345

    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Coookie View Post
    Dunno about irredeemable, but I don't think anyone tried to sell Tama as a saint. That was my justification for her actions in any case, the protagonists and their allies aren't exclusively do-gooders who are only allowed to use morally acceptable actions. They did plenty of things that can be considered "evil" and in the eyes of the general populace they didn't save, they are.
    In-story mass perception of good and evil is something completely different than morality from the reader's standpoint. We have been following the entire adventure since day one and we know for a fact that dangerous criminal Monkey D. Luffy never ever did anything unethical (while doing a modest amount of unlawful stuff).Tama (or whoever for that matter)doesn't "get a pass" on morally questionable acts just because she associates with the guy falsely accused of destroying Enies Lobby. She gets some understanding for being a traumatised child wanting to help in a liberation war with her powers, but the problem lies in the fact that her actions are framed as compeltely positive, enabled and commente favorably by the heroes, while had it been performed in the exact same way by a smelly kid in Teach's crew it would have been portrayed as sinister and unsettling.

    While I couldn't resist throwing that half-joking jab at the Tama thing, I don't want to reopen that can of worms here and now, my point is that the original point on wether we can assume Teach's unmistakably evil is actually interesting because we can re-read a charachter's actions while removing the bias given to us throughthe protagonist/antagonist depiction.

    Quote Originally Posted by otakufan View Post
    When Tama's rise to power begins by stabbing someone who was by all accounts a brother to her in the back, then I'll probably be more willing to concede the point.
    Well she did make an enslaved baboon jump to its death while believing it did so compelled by its new-found samurai honour... not really tha same thing but you have to start somewhere.
    Last edited by Alfiere; September 21st, 2021 at 07:26 AM.
    Curiosity has its own reason for existing

  6. #9346
    Chocolate or raisins? Coookie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfiere View Post
    In-story mass perception of good and evil is something completely different than morality from the reader's standpoint. We have been following the entire adventure since day one and we know for a fact that dangerous criminal Monkey D. Luffy never ever did anything unethical (while doing a modest amount of unlawful stuff).Tama (or whoever for that matter)doesn't "get a pass" on morally questionable acts just because she associates with the guy falsely accused of destroying Enies Lobby. She gets some understanding for being a traumatised child wanting to help in a liberation war with her powers, but the problem lies in the fact that her actions are framed as compeltely positive, enabled and commente favorably by the heroes, while had it been performed in the exact same way by a smelly kid in Teach's crew it would have been portrayed as sinister and unsettling.

    While I couldn't resist throwing that half-joking jab at the Tama thing, I don't want to reopen that can of worms here and now, my point is that the original point on wether we can assume Teach's unmistakably evil is actually interesting because we can re-read a charachter's actions while removing the bias given to us throughthe protagonist/antagonist depiction.
    Luffy did pretty much the same thing Tama did even if on a much smaller scale and it was played off as a gag without ever addressing that it's a wrong thing to do. I don't think anyone complained back then.
    Also, if you're arguing about morality from a reader's perspective: Don't you think it's unethical to willfully let a bunch of the worst criminals alive loose only to spring your brother from prison? Isn't it unethical to use violence and destruction of other people's property to solve problems? Isn't it unethical to rob and extort people?
    Luffy and the Straw Hats have done plenty of unethical things.

  7. #9347
    The Golden Witch otakufan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfiere View Post
    Well she did make an enslaved baboon jump to its death while believing it did so compelled by its new-found samurai honour... not really tha same thing but you have to start somewhere.
    Ah yes, of course... How could I forget the incontrovertible proof of O-tama's misdeeds that is Hihimaru's tragic corpse, which we have most definitely seen.

    Surely nothing so clearly shows how the heartless girl has abused those in her thrall, except perhaps for the horrific death of poor Umami, who was callously forced to interpose herself between the vile, cowardly O-tama and the righteous Kaidou, who merely wanted to save his people from being enslaved by such a monster.

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  8. #9348

    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Coookie View Post
    Luffy did pretty much the same thing Tama did even if on a much smaller scale and it was played off as a gag without ever addressing that it's a wrong thing to do. I don't think anyone complained back then.
    Overpowering someone who's trying to kill you and using him as a human shield agains other people trying to kill you is hardly comparable to brainwash people into brainwashing their friends.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coookie View Post
    Also, if you're arguing about morality from a reader's perspective: Don't you think it's unethical to willfully let a bunch of the worst criminals alive loose only to spring your brother from prison?
    That was collateral damage, not something planned since the beginning. What happend was that Luffy infiltrated a prison. Is it unlawful? suerely. is it unethical? let's see: The prison in point is a place shaped to resemble Hell, where prisoners are constatly tortured by people dressed like literl nazis and where you could end up for the crime of knowing stuff the government does not want to be known. Luffy went there to free Ace, a guy who's only known crime is being his father's son. You could resent (for wathever reason) Luffy for causing a prison riot... but he had PLENTY of ethical reasons to do what he did, and it's not like he jad a choice at any point to do anything different.
    Finally, even not considering all of that... it wouldn't even have mattered if he did anything different, since Teach came there a minute later and stormed the palce, so the mass evasion would have happened nonetheless and for far less noble purposes (we are told by the narrative), making the point irrelevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coookie View Post
    Isn't it unethical to use violence and destruction of other people's property to solve problems? Isn't it unethical to rob and extort people?
    Luffy and the Straw Hats have done plenty of unethical things.
    I really can't remember an instance where the "problems" that had to be solved were anything else than stopping some oppression and/or injustice, really. Has it ever happened in an instance where the StrawHats didn't end up having the moral highground over their "victims"?

    Quote Originally Posted by otakufan View Post
    Ah yes, of course... How could I forget the incontrovertible proof of O-tama's misdeeds that is Hihimaru's tragic corpse, which we have most definitely seen.

    Surely nothing so clearly shows how the heartless girl has abused those in her thrall, except perhaps for the horrific death of poor Umami, who was callously forced to interpose herself between the vile, cowardly O-tama and the righteous Kaidou, who merely wanted to save his people from being enslaved by such a monster.
    We haven't seen Thatch's body either.
    Curiosity has its own reason for existing

  9. #9349
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    I wonder is Magellan also a part of the oni race?
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
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  10. #9350

    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    I know this board is allergic to power-level discussions but... Contextualise how strong Oden really is at his peak.

    If he's alive in today's OP universe, is hr someone who's standing on equal footing with the admirals and emperors?

  11. #9351

    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    I'll guess that he was 1,25 Ace.

  12. #9352
    Your long-lost brother Jabra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Gol D. Silvers View Post
    I know this board is allergic to power-level discussions but... Contextualise how strong Oden really is at his peak.
    In the grey area between the first top commander and a Yonkou. Also called The Yamato Zone.


  13. #9353

    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    I'll guess that he was 1,25 Ace.
    Interesting - x 1.25 of Ace as we saw him? Yeah, Ace had all the tools as well( Chosen one's haki, lineage of a powerful character)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabra View Post
    In the grey area between the first top commander and a Yonkou. Also called The Yamato Zone.
    I'm okay with this too. To clarify, you're referring to the time Oden and Kaido clashed? I think that's what Oden was at when he lost... Well, both of them for that matter and that single distraction decided the fight- the Yamato zone makes sense.

  14. #9354
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Gol D. Silvers View Post
    I know this board is allergic to power-level discussions but... Contextualise how strong Oden really is at his peak.

    If he's alive in today's OP universe, is hr someone who's standing on equal footing with the admirals and emperors?
    I think he's pretty much exactly like Mihawk except for maybe stronger (physically).

    World's strongest/best swordsman but not yonkou level. Could challenge an admiral but that's it. If you're talking just dropping prime Oden in to the present.

    If you mean if he never died, he probably could be closer to yonkou
    Last edited by Zik; October 22nd, 2021 at 07:07 AM.
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
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  15. #9355

    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Do we know why Kaido chose this year of all years to implement the New Onigashima project? I can't remember any reason explicitly stated, so my guess was that it was because of his knowledge of Joyboy's arrival, but I was wondering if I missed something.

  16. #9356
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Roosta View Post
    Do we know why Kaido chose this year of all years to implement the New Onigashima project? I can't remember any reason explicitly stated, so my guess was that it was because of his knowledge of Joyboy's arrival, but I was wondering if I missed something.
    It honestly almost seemed like he was just waiting for something to put him over the top power wise and then Big Mom came in offering an alliance after her recent failed attempt so Kaido was like it is 20 years later, Joyboy should be popping up, let me kill Orochi, force my son to run Wano, and go get One Piece with Linlin in this new unstoppable union.
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
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  17. #9357

    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    I think he's pretty much exactly like Mihawk except for maybe stronger (physically).

    World's strongest/best swordsman but not yonkou level. Could challenge an admiral but that's it. If you're talking just dropping prime Oden in to the present.

    If you mean if he never died, he probably could be closer to yonkou
    Thanks and agree with your take as well. Oda wrote their fight well enough - showed Oden's strength and just a distraction was all it took for Kaido to O.H.K.O.

    I remember Brook's line about battles being decided quickly if both are destructive swordsmen; while Kaido isn't a swordsman but in a battle of super strong characters, a distraction is all it takes.

    Another question -

    With CP-0 already showing interest in Wano and the BMP still looming, what reinforcements can we reasonably expect to support the alliance?

    I'm a bit hopeful that the remnants of the Whitebeard pirates show up. They're part of the Oden flashback, their de facto leader is involved, they have ties with Momo and Hiyori, and I think it'll address the plot line Oda opened up with the WG keen on forcefully occupying Wano.

    A Bolo Breath from Momo should deter them initially but how can they be kept from trying again as Luffy and Co. (With Yamato presumably in the crew) are out to finish their journey? A force decent enough to deter them from trying again: Remnants of the scabbards, the clone of Kaido's DF, minks, Tama and her beast friends, and... the remnants of the WB pirates.

  18. #9358

    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Gol D. Silvers View Post
    With CP-0 already showing interest in Wano and the BMP still looming, what reinforcements can we reasonably expect to support the alliance?
    I personally think that they are going to win without anyone else appearing. There's a lot of evidence for the possibility of a BM character turn: fundamentally sympathetic goals for Tottoland, she doesn't know Sanji made the cake that saved Tottoland, she might hate CP0 if she learns Karmel was planning on selling Linlin to them, and so on. If BM and Perospero fall here, we know Katakuri would likely take over the BM pirates, and he's definitely sympathetic to Luffy. He could simply appear out of a mirror to make them take on the CP0 fleet.

  19. #9359
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Katakuri appearing out of a mirror to fight CP0 would be badass.
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
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  20. #9360
    Warrior of Science Kaptayn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    I'll guess that he was 1,25 Ace.
    Impossible. Ace had no haki.


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