View Poll Results: who is the strongest now living char in OP?

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  • Shanks

    101 23.43%
  • Mihawk

    9 2.09%
  • Kizaru

    8 1.86%
  • Dragon

    75 17.40%
  • Akainu

    27 6.26%
  • Big Mom

    3 0.70%
  • Kaido

    42 9.74%
  • Kuzan

    1 0.23%
  • the grosei

    18 4.18%
  • Garp

    7 1.62%
  • Sengoku

    1 0.23%
  • Blackbeard

    100 23.20%
  • Marco

    6 1.39%
  • Kuma

    4 0.93%
  • other

    29 6.73%
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Thread: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

  1. #8421

    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    How does everyone keep forgetting that Ace didn't die because he was proud. He died because if he hadn't, Luffy would've died. In fact, Luffy was SUPPOSED to die--Ace just got in the way and took the hit instead. Point all of your daggers and fingers at Luffy. It's because HE STOPPED TRYING TO ESCAPE, to grab a damn piece of paper, that he was about to literally take a face full of magma in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by K. Kira XXIII View Post
    To the government, Ace's lineage represents a threat. Roger inspired an entire age of pirates. His son had conqueror's haki, was an upcoming rising pirate with the potential to surpass Roger. Whitebeard was protecting Ace until he could carry the mantle Roger and Newgate had discussed.

    Making a public execution sends a message to the entire world of what happens if your pursue Roger's words/will.

    Just imagine, Roger's words inspired a bunch of people to search for One Piece, how would some of those people feel, if Roger's will lived on? I am talking about pirates, of course as we saw citizens did not hold the same view.
    Yeah, but somehow the Marines didn't learn their lesson about making martyrs out of criminals the first time. They try to make a public spectacle out of executing the widest known criminal, and BAM: They got an entire AGE of rampant criminality. They try to make a public spectacle out of executing a man specifically because he's the first martyr's son, and BOOM: Whitebeard throws freaking gasoline on the piracy fire! I'm not sure how this strategy makes sense to them.
    "People die, when they are killed."
    --Someone who's never read One Piece
    "You only live once."
    --Someone who's never read Naruto
    Quote Originally Posted by SuburbanErrorist View Post
    But anyhow, on this topic, vertical slashes are sexist.
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  2. #8422
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirxxx View Post
    How does everyone keep forgetting that Ace didn't die because he was proud. He died because if he hadn't, Luffy would've died. In fact, Luffy was SUPPOSED to die--Ace just got in the way and took the hit instead. Point all of your daggers and fingers at Luffy. It's because HE STOPPED TRYING TO ESCAPE, to grab a damn piece of paper, that he was about to literally take a face full of magma in the first place.
    I'm happy you got this feeling since that way the story has the proper impact. What I saw was Ace transforming into Marty McFly when everyone told him to continue running which caused everyone to pause because they are here so he can escape which ends in Luffy blaming himself despite getting him out of execution stand and Whitebeard dying knowing he failed to save his son (and his crew knowing their father died without accomplishing what he wanted).

    Don't mess with the Law if you don't have an Ace up your sleeve.

  3. #8423
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    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirxxx View Post
    How does everyone keep forgetting that Ace didn't die because he was proud. He died because if he hadn't, Luffy would've died. In fact, Luffy was SUPPOSED to die--Ace just got in the way and took the hit instead. Point all of your daggers and fingers at Luffy. It's because HE STOPPED TRYING TO ESCAPE, to grab a damn piece of paper, that he was about to literally take a face full of magma in the first place.
    Ace stopped running away first, though, after Akainu taunted him. Which is what caused everyone nearby (like Luffy) to stop and gawk at Ace getting beaten up. The direct hit that killed Ace may have been taking a blow for Luffy, but the entire situation could have been avoided if Ace had ignored Mr. Magma and kept running.

    Personally, I also felt bad for Luffy more so than Ace, but what really irks me is that, in the official translation, right when Ace stops running, there's a panel with just Akainu's face and a speech bubble with a question mark in it, implying that Akainu wasn't even TRYING to goad Ace into a fight, he was just being a sore loser. And him being a sore loser won the marines the war.



    Yeah, but somehow the Marines didn't learn their lesson about making martyrs out of criminals the first time. They try to make a public spectacle out of executing the widest known criminal, and BAM: They got an entire AGE of rampant criminality. They try to make a public spectacle out of executing a man specifically because he's the first martyr's son, and BOOM: Whitebeard throws freaking gasoline on the piracy fire! I'm not sure how this strategy makes sense to them.
    I think in this case it was less about the message they were sending (although that would still be important) and more about killing Ace to stop him from reaching his full potential and leading a new generation of pirates. Don Chinjao says something similar to this during the tournament in Dressrosa.

  4. #8424

    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    I'm happy you got this feeling since that way the story has the proper impact. What I saw was Ace transforming into Marty McFly when everyone told him to continue running which caused everyone to pause because they are here so he can escape which ends in Luffy blaming himself despite getting him out of execution stand and Whitebeard dying knowing he failed to save his son (and his crew knowing their father died without accomplishing what he wanted).
    Quote Originally Posted by No swords style best style View Post
    Ace stopped running away first, though, after Akainu taunted him. Which is what caused everyone nearby (like Luffy) to stop and gawk at Ace getting beaten up. The direct hit that killed Ace may have been taking a blow for Luffy, but the entire situation could have been avoided if Ace had ignored Mr. Magma and kept running.
    I stand corrected. I laughed WAY harder than I should have at the Marty McFly reference Geez, I completely misremembered how really stupid and avoidable Ace's--and subsequently potentially Whitebeard's--death was.
    "People die, when they are killed."
    --Someone who's never read One Piece
    "You only live once."
    --Someone who's never read Naruto
    Quote Originally Posted by SuburbanErrorist View Post
    But anyhow, on this topic, vertical slashes are sexist.
    ***Because the madness that is AP Forums chapter discussions must not perish from the earth***



  5. #8425
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    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirxxx View Post
    How does everyone keep forgetting that Ace didn't die because he was proud. He died because if he hadn't, Luffy would've died. In fact, Luffy was SUPPOSED to die--Ace just got in the way and took the hit instead. Point all of your daggers and fingers at Luffy. It's because HE STOPPED TRYING TO ESCAPE, to grab a damn piece of paper, that he was about to literally take a face full of magma in the first place.
    Actually it's Shanks' fault for not showing up sooner.

  6. #8426
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    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by BattleFranky69 View Post
    Actually it's Shanks' fault for not showing up sooner.
    Yeah, it's not like he had to fight Kaido earlier that day or anything. XP

  7. #8427
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    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by BattleFranky69 View Post
    Actually it's Shanks' fault for not showing up sooner.
    It's actually Ace's fault for being born. It's like they all said. The devil's blood runs in his veins. He lived for twenty months in Rouge's womb when he only should have lived for two if she took proper initiative.

    "The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke."

  8. #8428
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    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by No swords style best style View Post
    Yeah, it's not like he had to fight Kaido earlier that day or anything. XP
    LOL, I know. I wonder how that went? Did he confront Kaido personally or was it just Kaido's fleet? I'd imagine it would have to have been otherwise I don't think Shanks would have gotten there at all with the kind of opposition Kaido himself would have presented. Unless he had a really sneaky way of getting past them to avoid wasting time in a needless fight. Not sure if Shanks has a fleet or if he's a one-ship guy like Roger; that might make for quicker travel and avoiding confrontations if it's the latter.

  9. #8429

    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Ace's hubris was his lack of self-importance and he DID die because of it. Had he not been goaded by Akainu then there's a good chance he would have survived. Thing is that Akainu was chasing Luffy, Ace and Jimbei and the person most fit to stall Akainu while the other two escape is Ace (in Ace's head) because no matter how you look at it Akainu (who was pretty healthy) had a very good chance at catching up with the three of them.

    Was it Ace's fault for dying after everything was said and done? Unfortunately yes. But people miss out on how it is supposed to be tragic that way. To the very end Ace viewed himself to be below or indebted to any single person who ever loved him. How Ace dies wasn't stupid or reckless in my opinion; just plain sad. Of course, all this can only be understood AFTER the flashback.

    I feel like Oda could have handled Ace's portrayal pre-death slightly better to give the impact he wanted with his death. Except that Oda has stated that he knew he would kill Ace since his inception (even if did not plan on making him Roger's son) and that is why he didn't go too deep with Ace's character. He even stated how he was surprised about the fandom's reaction to marine ford because it was just a side-quest to him.

  10. #8430

    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    wow this might be the first time I've seen a different perspective from OP fans when I discussed about ace's final moment (with friends/youtube)
    usually I got bashed from 'mocking' Ace and told that ace's death was the saddest thing on OP.
    To be honest , Ace was kinda a jackass and got what he deserved on that execution.

    The thing that I also don't like from this moment is the aftermath where Oda eventually made a new replacement brother character for Luffy called Sabo (he even gave Sabo the same DF!) . Come on , this is like cuckolding Ace's death

  11. #8431
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    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Law-ya View Post
    Was it Ace's fault for dying after everything was said and done? Unfortunately yes. But people miss out on how it is supposed to be tragic that way. To the very end Ace viewed himself to be below or indebted to any single person who ever loved him. How Ace dies wasn't stupid or reckless in my opinion; just plain sad. Of course, all this can only be understood AFTER the flashback.
    If you're going to make tragedy out of a character lacking self-control, there should be proper build-up and insight into how much pressure has been put on their psyche in their life and how their character responds to such pressure.

    When you execute that psychological pressure through mere trash talk, rather than at least some sort of tangible threat or bitter revelation, it's difficult for me to feel sympathy for a victim's lack of self-control right after seeing how much his family risked so many their own lives to save him.

    "The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke."

  12. #8432
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    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Law-ya View Post
    Ace's hubris was his lack of self-importance and he DID die because of it. Had he not been goaded by Akainu then there's a good chance he would have survived. Thing is that Akainu was chasing Luffy, Ace and Jimbei and the person most fit to stall Akainu while the other two escape is Ace (in Ace's head) because no matter how you look at it Akainu (who was pretty healthy) had a very good chance at catching up with the three of them.

    Was it Ace's fault for dying after everything was said and done? Unfortunately yes. But people miss out on how it is supposed to be tragic that way. To the very end Ace viewed himself to be below or indebted to any single person who ever loved him. How Ace dies wasn't stupid or reckless in my opinion; just plain sad. Of course, all this can only be understood AFTER the flashback.

    I feel like Oda could have handled Ace's portrayal pre-death slightly better to give the impact he wanted with his death. Except that Oda has stated that he knew he would kill Ace since his inception (even if did not plan on making him Roger's son) and that is why he didn't go too deep with Ace's character. He even stated how he was surprised about the fandom's reaction to marine ford because it was just a side-quest to him.
    I refuse to even consider it even for a second. That's giving MarineFord Ace more respect than he ever deserved. The guy was running fine until Akainu mentioned Whitebeard and he clearly mention the insults to Whitebeard as the reason to attack when people tell him to move his ass to the damn boat.

    Don't mess with the Law if you don't have an Ace up your sleeve.

  13. #8433

    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Lets not forget the reason luffy reached for the vivre card was his legs literally stopped working, he reached his limit and thats why ace had to jump in he didnt just drop ot and turn around to grab it as the wind blew it towards akainu lol.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

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  14. #8434

    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    I've been wondering for a while now... Had Luffy not sailed under a pirate flag, would he have been considered a criminal in the beginning of the series (before Grand line)? If I recall right, the only bad things he did were: freeing Zoro (who was captured for dumb reasons anyway), beating up Morgan (which was a good thing as he was arrested), calling himself a pirate, knocking out Boodle and breaking some plates at Baratie. I mean he did take out the worst criminals of east blue at that point... Somehow it seems like the marines would be happy about that. Maybe I'm forgetting something, please do correct me.

  15. #8435
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    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman View Post
    I've been wondering for a while now... Had Luffy not sailed under a pirate flag, would he have been considered a criminal in the beginning of the series (before Grand line)? If I recall right, the only bad things he did were: freeing Zoro (who was captured for dumb reasons anyway), beating up Morgan (which was a good thing as he was arrested), calling himself a pirate, knocking out Boodle and breaking some plates at Baratie. I mean he did take out the worst criminals of east blue at that point... Somehow it seems like the marines would be happy about that. Maybe I'm forgetting something, please do correct me.
    You're right that the SHs did way more good than bad in the East Blue, but because they ticked off that one corrupt mouse marine he depicted them in a "Blackbeard chasing out Wapol" type of way to Marine HQ.

  16. #8436
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    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman View Post
    I've been wondering for a while now... Had Luffy not sailed under a pirate flag, would he have been considered a criminal in the beginning of the series (before Grand line)? If I recall right, the only bad things he did were: freeing Zoro (who was captured for dumb reasons anyway), beating up Morgan (which was a good thing as he was arrested), calling himself a pirate, knocking out Boodle and breaking some plates at Baratie. I mean he did take out the worst criminals of east blue at that point... Somehow it seems like the marines would be happy about that. Maybe I'm forgetting something, please do correct me.
    He freed a convicted felon AKA Zoro but aside from that he would have been fine. It's even possible he would have won the trial about freeing Zoro.

    Don't mess with the Law if you don't have an Ace up your sleeve.

  17. #8437
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    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman View Post
    I've been wondering for a while now... Had Luffy not sailed under a pirate flag, would he have been considered a criminal in the beginning of the series (before Grand line)? If I recall right, the only bad things he did were: freeing Zoro (who was captured for dumb reasons anyway), beating up Morgan (which was a good thing as he was arrested), calling himself a pirate, knocking out Boodle and breaking some plates at Baratie. I mean he did take out the worst criminals of east blue at that point... Somehow it seems like the marines would be happy about that. Maybe I'm forgetting something, please do correct me.
    What actually sealed the deal was pissing off Nezumi, that stupid mouse Marine who was corrupted by Arlong for decades. If they had managed to expose his corruption and get him arrested instead and did not consider themselves pirates, they would have been perfectly fine. At least until they started messing with the system itself by fighting Croco-boy, I think.
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn. (Socrates (Σωκράτης) method to enlighten people, ca. 500 BC)

  18. #8438

    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    I think Logue Town, even if the marines thought him a hero, he would probably stand up on the execution stand and yelled he was going to be the pirate king. Then you can still have Buggy show up and have the same sequence.
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  19. #8439

    Default Re: Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Mark II

    I really think that they wouldn't have been in trouble by defeating Crocodile, except that if they weren't pirates then Smoker wouldn't be there and I don't know if Hina, the marine Officer for Sandy Island, would have been lenient, and without eyes on the ground the WG would have been a lot more confused on what to do there.

    But yeah, Nezumi is the one that accuses them of piracy, and the actual escalation is during Water 7. A random citizen defeating a rouge warlord would just have granted him a reward.
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