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Thread: The Last of Us

  1. #221

    Default Re: The Last of Us

    Did anyone set the game to hard mode on their first play through? I just finished it, but it took much longer than I thought it would.
    My 3DS friend code is 4012-5016-7408.
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  2. #222

    Default Re: The Last of Us

    Mulling over the game for a few weeks and playing certain sections again I feel like its greatest strength is the pacing.
    Coming from a loving rpg background that is used to having cutscenes/scenes that are pretty long and going without gameplay for long periods of time doesn't bother me as much but I sure notice it.
    And yes sometimes it gets annoying a bit with excessive cases like mgs4 or the xenosaga and many other games that aren't quite as constantly offensive with it.

    So it seems to be it's very easy to fall into the trap of going overly long with cutscenes or overusing them.
    I feel that's the one thing that last of us totally nails. The sections between cutscene, combat, peaceful breather, exploration time, it's all very elaborate.
    I feel the rest of the game looking at the general picture of creative work(well relatively speaking) as a whole might be nothing special due its lack of originality but then I never felt like originality is a strong point for quality.

  3. #223
    ホールワッカ Hallwacker's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Last of Us

    I liked this game, but I'd give it a 7 or 8 at best.

  4. #224

    Default Re: The Last of Us

    Quote Originally Posted by Hallwacker View Post
    I liked this game, but I'd give it a 7 or 8 at best.
    Your post earns a 3.8 because arbitrary scoring is so fun and meaningful.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    How about formulating an opinion? Or is that too advanced of an algorithm to compute for the place where those numbers came from?
    Jeez, people throwing scoring numbers around as if their values are universally representative like in mathematics.
    It's seriously one of the worst things review sides have spawned...

  5. #225

    Default Re: The Last of Us

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthAsthma View Post
    Your post earns a 3.8 because arbitrary scoring is so fun and meaningful.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    How about formulating an opinion? Or is that too advanced of an algorithm to compute for the place where those numbers came from?
    Jeez, people throwing scoring numbers around as if their values are universally representative like in mathematics.
    It's seriously one of the worst things review sides have spawned...
    Not the time or the place, but review scores are almost never arbitrary, at least by definition. Most sites/reviewers usually have a scale that explains the general concept behind the base numbers they use. The only reason it's beginning to feel more arbitrary is the rise of sites like Metacritic, which have stripped the difference from the various reviewers/scores for an aggregate number, plus the desire to make concrete changes to games studios through those scores.

    There's a certain subjectivity in assigning scores, true, but that's true of grading/pricing/ranking and all kinds of things in the modern world. Video games aren't exempt.

    To your point, I've gone on at length in this thread about my own issues with the game, but when I discussed it with my brother, I told him, "It's a good game, but I'd give it an 8 rather than a 10." Based on earlier discussions, he knows this probably means that I respected/liked the game but didn't find it especially fun or that it didn't match my ideals for gameplay. He can get this from the score without my spoiling any of the plot/gameplay mechanics for him when he gets around to it. Is a better idea to provide a lengthier qualitative review? Yeah. But scores do have some limited uses, as long as the reader is familiar with the scale/concept behind it. Which isn't true in this case, so...Hrm.

    Anyways, I give my defense of review scores a 6.

  6. #226

    Default Re: The Last of Us

    Quote Originally Posted by tatermoog View Post
    Not the time or the place, but review scores are almost never arbitrary, at least by definition. Most sites/reviewers usually have a scale that explains the general concept behind the base numbers they use. The only reason it's beginning to feel more arbitrary is the rise of sites like Metacritic, which have stripped the difference from the various reviewers/scores for an aggregate number, plus the desire to make concrete changes to games studios through those scores.

    There's a certain subjectivity in assigning scores, true, but that's true of grading/pricing/ranking and all kinds of things in the modern world. Video games aren't exempt.

    To your point, I've gone on at length in this thread about my own issues with the game, but when I discussed it with my brother, I told him, "It's a good game, but I'd give it an 8 rather than a 10." Based on earlier discussions, he knows this probably means that I respected/liked the game but didn't find it especially fun or that it didn't match my ideals for gameplay. He can get this from the score without my spoiling any of the plot/gameplay mechanics for him when he gets around to it. Is a better idea to provide a lengthier qualitative review? Yeah. But scores do have some limited uses, as long as the reader is familiar with the scale/concept behind it. Which isn't true in this case, so...Hrm.

    Anyways, I give my defense of review scores a 6.
    Well to be honest I didn't really say that review scores are arbitrary but I certainly think that so I'll bite.

    They are in the grand scheme of things. A 7 on ign does not equal a 7 on gameinformer. Since every site decides for themselves what each numbers means to them the idea of consistent score value becomes fairly moot. As you said the scoring itself involves an element of subjectivity and when I look at a lot of reviews it seems to involve it a lot, even the reviewers themselves often say that they don't even want to attempt to try to objectively measure any game and are content with the very logical but lazy statement that it's all subjective anyway.

    When the review system itself is different for every site and every reviewer uses it differently(Yes people score wildly different, some pick a number from gut feeling, some begin at 5 and add/substract points, some begin at 10) then by all means I think that fulfills the condition of being arbitrary.

    And yeah your brother understanding you what you mean with an 8 isn't surprising. These arbitrary chosen numbers gain meaning to anyone that has knowledge of the factors you chose them by. That's why many review sites push their reviewers out as personalities through podcast and etc. To make it easier to understand the scoring of any person working there.

    I don't even think that saying an 8 means good is that much better from just stating the number itself. Languages tend to have rich vocabulary, if the only way for you to concisely express the feeling of value of something is through a number chosen by your personal opinion of how the value of abstract ideas translate themselves into them you might as well not say anything.

    ------------------------------------------------
    As for the game itself I have to say I didn't really enjoy it in the conventional sense. The story didn't make me excited, I was not pushing forward to know what happens next. What it did for me though is building this oppressive framework that really got me down and it made me confront certain aspects by making it fairly easy to empathize with the situation of its characters.

    The thing I got out of it most is that I don't like giving up, despite the game not being a "fun" experience, despite it being fairly depressing at times I wanted to move on, I didn't want to lose to the situation.
    I wanted to finish the journey to retain this pseudo ideal of hope and that things will get better at some point despite the game trying very hard to disprove me by throwing a lot of messed up stuff at me. It all culminating in the ending it has made me reflect further.

    All those things the game let me experience did make a significantly stronger impression on me than hundreds of hours playing any game with strong mechanical focus(starcraft/counter strike/WoW/whatever). And that's certainly a personal thing but the point of this is that I certainly don't think that this translates very well into: "well this game is a x(choose whatever number you like) for me".
    Last edited by DarthAsthma; July 6th, 2013 at 11:51 AM.

  7. #227

    Default Re: The Last of Us

    My problem with a review score is that like said it doesn't factor in much. Most people will look at the review score without looking at anything else and buy a game based on that. And it's used as a way to fuel the console wars when a game does score high. But really you cannot compare a game like Last of Us with Mario Galaxy or Fifa or Metroid or whatever since they're completely different genres.



    So finished up on it. Overall I found it very average. It was basically a safe title that hit all the same spots as Uncharted did. Very similar combat (unfortunately) but I really did enjoy some of the stealth bits. Unfortunately earlier on you could just walk past everything and by end game you were so overpowered you only needed to stealth kill one and just pwn everything else. The storyline. Honestly I felt little for the story. But maybe that was due to the fact that I came off playing Walking Dead recently and Bioshock Infinite a few months back so felt I'd already experienced much of what the game was offering me plot wise. And like Uncharted I cared more about the side characters than I did the main.

    But yeah it was ok. Slow start but Winter was pretty damn good. But yeah it offered nothing new for me and didn't seem to try to excel at anything. Its a game that I'll forget about very quickly, and I'm sure most of the world will too once the next GOTY comes out in a few weeks/months time.
    Oh hey, I do videos on figures and manga and stuff: https://www.youtube.com/thatmanhismerch

  8. #228

    Default Re: The Last of Us

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyber-Robin View Post
    Overall I found it very average.
    I really want to play all these other games you people have that rank above for the type of game the last of us is.
    I seem to have missed a lot of great titles when the last of us is only average or people just have poor vocabulary when describing their non satisfaction with the game? Or admittingly maybe my understanding of average is to limited? I don't see it as a qualitative description, but rather as something that relates very strongly to any given sum.
    Last edited by DarthAsthma; July 6th, 2013 at 01:07 PM.

  9. #229

    Default Re: The Last of Us

    It's kinda funny how this thread come across as more negative about this game than /v/

  10. #230

    Default Re: The Last of Us

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthAsthma View Post
    I really want to play all these other games you people have that rank above for the type of game the last of us is.
    I seem to have missed a lot of great titles when the last of us is only average or people just have poor vocabulary when describing their non satisfaction with the game? Or admittingly maybe my understanding of average is to limited? I don't see it as a qualitative description, but rather as something that relates very strongly to any given sum.
    Think the issue here is "rank above the type of game the last of us is." I mean, it's not really clear what type of game it even is. Is it stealth? Well, the stealth is a strong option throughout, but it gets thrown out the window at least half a dozen times in the game. Is it survival? Well, the implementation of the survival aspects is really non-existent on lower difficulties and is pretty minimal compared to traditional stealth/gameplay on all settings. Is it a third-person shooter? Well, the controls are a little clunky (intentionally) and you're really not supposed to take on some hordes of enemies.

    So, for one thing, I was never convinced that The Last of Us really had a strong indication of what exactly it was. At its heart, I felt--and still feel--that the gameplay was subsidiary to the narrative, and I had numerous problems with the narrative. So if the narrative wasn't paying off, and the gameplay was less "fun" to try and match the game to the story, I just wasn't that enthralled.

    It's less a matter of where it comes out compared to other games in its genre, whatever that may be. It's that I felt the game was less successful in defining and being what it set out to be than others do. And as I've admitted in other posts, I suspect some of this ties in to my distaste for zombie things, but in other regards, I think there are legitimate gripes to be made towards what Naughty Dog has done.

    If you want me to go into further detail, I can, but I suspect we'll eventually end up agreeing that we just have differing opinions on intent/execution.

  11. #231

    Default Re: The Last of Us

    Sorry this took so long but I just didn't have the time to sit down and write something lengthy until now.
    Although it gave me a bit of extra time to muse over what you wrote so I hope I can write something that's not super disagreeable.

    So first of all I wasn't necessarily talking about genre. That said there seems to be some kind of confusion of what type of game the last of us is and you're kind of right different people with different focuses will perceive the game differently. A guy that is heavy on the gameplay will probably perceive the game as wonky stealth game. A guy that focuses on the story will probably perceive it as an old tired Hollywood-esque telling. I don't find it pretty interesting though to try to shoehorn it into any existing genre given how outdated all those tags are anyways.

    I mean GTA San Andreas, open world action third person shooter (rpg)? Or mass effect sci fi third person shooter rpg dating sim? Games are have so much more facets today that limiting them to a one word genre description which focus on mechanics is pretty damn stupid in my opinion.

    So I try to come from a more general perspective(whether I succeed at that is up in the air) but my focus is on how all the aspects of the game try to come together and how much they succeed at that. And I do that because I feel that's quite important for the games that include a narrative experience. I haven't played a game yet with that element that worked well for me when the gameplay and the story felt divorced not to mention all the games that have that element and are pretty laughable in the writing department. And that said it's ok if they don't synergize well but they shouldn't conflict with each other.

    That said I feel it's somewhat hard to find a game that compares well to the last of us since most I don't think succeed very well at integrating narrative into them so that I don't feel it's fair to compare them. I mean for example tomb raider, the narrative and the gameplay are rather divorced in my opinion that you can't make a complete comparison to the last of us where gameplay and narrative are very heavily intertwined. And I don't feel it's very meaningful to take tomb raiders gameplay or story on it's own for comparison.

    In conclusion my case is whether you enjoy the last of us or not when you take a careful look at it I don't think you can say it's average since it does things few other games do. You might not enjoy the gameplay but I hope one can see that the way it is suits it better to fulfill its purpose of being oppressive than say a mechanically logical stealth game which has it's focus more on empowering you for your finesse.
    You may not enjoy that it's a cinematic experience but I hope it's easy to see that its pacing is way better than what most games have that focus also on being cinematic experiences.

    So yeah I definitely have no problem if you assess this game for yourself as something else but when big picture statements are made like the game is average, the story is so bad without giving proper context which takes the big picture into consideration I just can't help but ask "well, compared to what?".

  12. #232

    Default Re: The Last of Us

    I just saw Yahtzee's review of the game and does anyone else think he just sort of thought of random negative things to say about the game?
    Spoiler:
    Things like "Ellie doesn't matter much to the story" when she's a playable character.


    I don't know, it really just felt like he felt he had to be negative.

  13. #233

    Default Re: The Last of Us

    Because that's his shtick being overly negative of a game for 5 mins whilst some pretty pictures go by on screen.

  14. #234

    Default Re: The Last of Us

    I know, but usually his negative points are good, or are at least on the right track. His review for this game they're just kinda wrong.

    I guess I can get the "AI ally can't get detected" thing as a bad point, but I sure as hell rather have that than one that trips all the enemy alarms and is nothing but a liability.

  15. #235

    Default Re: The Last of Us

    Aside from the Ellie thing pretty much everything there was pretty accurate I felt
    Oh hey, I do videos on figures and manga and stuff: https://www.youtube.com/thatmanhismerch

  16. #236

    Default Re: The Last of Us

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobjr View Post
    I know, but usually his negative points are good, or are at least on the right track. His review for this game they're just kinda wrong.

    I guess I can get the "AI ally can't get detected" thing as a bad point, but I sure as hell rather have that than one that trips all the enemy alarms and is nothing but a liability.
    No they aren't necessarily. What they are and I use his words(from the escapist expo) is agreeable from your perspective. In this case they aren't.

    So what I'm saying is that their qualitative judgement is often more related to your position on them than their actual merit.

  17. #237

    Default Re: The Last of Us

    Well,I finished the game and the first thing I need to say is that the game is really good with some not so game-breaking hiccups.
    Spoiler:
    I loved the season changing throughout the story and the depth of the enviroment and of the general atmosphere.The way the game is giving you ammo is really well thought as it really makes you think your way against the enemies,which is something that I really liked.At points,the game felt like the newest Tomb Raider game which isn't a bad thing.Two things turned me off from the overall experience:
    1.How slow the game is at the beginning,I know it happens so we can get closer to the characters but sometimes the story felt boring and predictable.Also the ending was really clear and sentimental but I was kinda meh and I expected something more stable and bigger for such a good and lengthy story.
    2.The enemies and the general AI.It was fucking horrible.My partners,at times just stood there while I was in cover and just didn't move.The human enemies are super stupid with no reactions to dead bodies and FUCKING ELLIE JUST STANDING IN FRONT OF THEM.The zombies on the other hand were generally alright but at points I was hopeless not because of I didn't have ammo or weapons,because I was stuck between motions,like for example a runner gets me,I mash square and right when I am free the fucking clicker stands there next to me instantly grabbing me.Also,their spawn system was really really bad.I mean I walk to an area where the monsters should be,nothing is there then I turn around pick up some stuff and then poof magically a bunch of clickers and a bloater.

    P.S.Sorry for the long post.

  18. #238
    💀ⅅᎯℛᏦ Ꮎℱ Ꭿℙ🎭 DARK_RITUAL's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Last of Us

    This game is average to me, I don't understand the hype it been getting.

    Anyways I played the game for hours then finally completed it and I only got 4 or 5 trophies? WHAT DA HELL?

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  19. #239

    Default Re: The Last of Us

    Quote Originally Posted by DARK_RITUAL View Post
    Anyways I played the game for hours then finally completed it and I only got 4 or 5 trophies? WHAT DA HELL?
    Outside of the "Collect all X", "Beat game at X difficulty", and the 4-5 Multiplayer trophies there really aren't a lot of them in total. I actually kind of like it.

  20. #240

    Default Re: The Last of Us

    I actually put this in my top 5 ps3 games so far. Maybe looking at the list I could argue just from this years releases; but yeah it was pretty unique.

    It was nice seeing each segment introduce some new but enjoyable aspect to the story. And that goes from scenes like his daughters death which was very well played out, the rape scenario that felt all too real.... to bills sticky paged magazine lol.

    I also enjoyed just how addictive it was replaying levels with different strategies. My personal favourite involves a good combination of brick and bow action.

    I would like to have seen maybe a flashback or two depicting how the infection changed the world over the 20 year leap in the game. Also the idea of having more bloaters or more types of undead would have been neat.

    As for the ending....
    Spoiler:
    well i liked it. I sat in my chair considering the morality behind keeping her alive and stuff, so cool points for making me actually question his motives. The real bonus for me though is the simple fact it left off in a way that allows the possibility of another game, be it prequal or sequal.


    And finally I enjoyed the dialogue between the two. The story and how it would pan out was pretty predictable in my eyes, yet I still liked going through the stories motions.

    I'd have to give it an 8.5 for being so unique.

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