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Thread: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation

  1. #9321
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption

    Considering nobody took an effort explaining basic skills to Naruto in part 1, nor making him take a Jonin test or something, I don't find it surprising.

    Naruto would have been a lot better if it covered a period of something closer to 10 years. At least 6 or 7.
    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

    It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

  2. #9322

    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption

    Did we ever get an explanation for why Tsunade quit being the Hokage? It seemed really abrupt - like the war ended, and Kakashi immediately became Hokage.

  3. #9323

    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption

    Quote Originally Posted by ShinigamiKing View Post
    Am I the only one who feels that Naruto should have been hokage before Kakashi? Or at least have that area explained?

    Naruto was not only the strongerst character at the end of the show, but his leadership and emotional maturity (at least when it comes to human relations) where also the strongest by the show's end.

    At very least, I hate how rushed the last two chapters were. The 10 year timeskip and the shoehorning in of his children at the end made the whole thing feel kinda empty. It didn't really sink in that "this knucklehead ninja who started in 1999 is finally hokage".

    It felt kinda empty.
    Kakashi was the more experienced though comically the weakest of the two due to getting nerfed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  4. #9324

    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption

    I think the Kakashi novel covers a lot of the reasons for Kakashi becoming hokage after Tsunade quits and his thoughts on that. The anime is currently adapting all the novels so it'll cover that story too if you're interested

  5. #9325
    The Album Guy Nobodyman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption

    Quote Originally Posted by Megadoomer View Post
    Did we ever get an explanation for why Tsunade quit being the Hokage? It seemed really abrupt - like the war ended, and Kakashi immediately became Hokage.
    Because Tsunade dying after being crushed in half would have made too much sense.

  6. #9326

    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobodyman View Post
    Because Tsunade dying after being crushed in half would have made too much sense.
    If Obito can shrug off having his whole left side crushed by a rock and not die why not do it with Tsunade who has the power of plot.
    Last edited by Green_vs_Red; January 20th, 2017 at 10:38 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  7. #9327
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption

    Kakashi should have just became Hokage after Danzo's demise rather than handing the reigns back to Tsunade. It's not like I even remember her offering any memorable moments during the war besides the Kage teamup against Mads.

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  8. #9328

    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh;3746560[B
    ]Considering nobody took an effort explaining basic skills to Naruto in part 1, nor making him take a Jonin test or something, I don't find it surprising.[/B]

    Naruto would have been a lot better if it covered a period of something closer to 10 years. At least 6 or 7.
    Yeah but the whole jonin thing kinda became meaningless as the show went on. Kishimoto didn't even follow his own internal logic, or acknowledge it's change. Strategy became useless, and I feel Naruto already had the brute strength and experience anyways. At the very least, he could have had involved advisors like Tsunade.

    I mean, Tsunade and Hiruzen weren't shown doing much paperwork.



    I guess I'm just mad at how Shippuden turned out... ugh...

    Naruto Part 1 was a legitimately great show, the more and more I watch it. Yeah it had a few flaws, but it hammered in all the essentials very well, or even exceptionally. It's still one of the few works I've watched it where I've seriously rooted for the main characters, even 10 years later. Hell, one of the few shonen to legit be as good if not better than One Piece at it's own peak.

    I hate how Naruto's basic narrative/plot basically got rewritten and retconned. It was never supposed to be/never should have been some sort of Naruto/Sasuke parallel story and how they're fates intertwined with and dealt with by the Akatsuki and all that jazz.

    Like, they say that there's so much violence in the ninja world and that the villages always fight... yet literally all of what we see in the current show is just Akatsuki attacking. The worldbuilding fell apart too, and the way they handled the generations/supporting characters also felt very odd compared to part 1.

    EDIT: Why is there a gap between geenrations? The rookie 9 were special plus Rock Lee's group are special, but where are the people between them and Kakashi's group?

    PEople who would be 15 or 16 years old at the start of part 1?

    Are they all weak or something? It's okay if they're not shown early on, but as the series begins to focus on the major grand missions... it wouldn't hurt to show people from outside Naruto's sphere. Other jonin, etc.
    Last edited by ShinigamiKing; January 21st, 2017 at 10:43 AM.
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  9. #9329
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption

    Quote Originally Posted by ShinigamiKing View Post
    Yeah but the whole jonin thing kinda became meaningless as the show went on. Kishimoto didn't even follow his own internal logic, or acknowledge it's change. Strategy became useless, and I feel Naruto already had the brute strength and experience anyways. At the very least, he could have had involved advisors like Tsunade.

    I mean, Tsunade and Hiruzen weren't shown doing much paperwork.
    It became meaningless because Kishimoto made it so. Instead of letting the story last a while to let Naruto and others mature a little, while giving more attention to world building, he compressed the whole of part 2 in, what, a couple of months?
    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

    It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

  10. #9330
    Discovered Stowaway Bigivel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    Considering nobody took an effort explaining basic skills to Naruto in part 1, nor making him take a Jonin test or something, I don't find it surprising.

    Naruto would have been a lot better if it covered a period of something closer to 10 years. At least 6 or 7.
    There is no Jonin test, the all thing is done through recommendation letters!

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by ShinigamiKing View Post
    Am I the only one who feels that Naruto should have been hokage before Kakashi? Or at least have that area explained?

    Naruto was not only the strongerst character at the end of the show, but his leadership and emotional maturity (at least when it comes to human relations) where also the strongest by the show's end.

    At very least, I hate how rushed the last two chapters were. The 10 year timeskip and the shoehorning in of his children at the end made the whole thing feel kinda empty. It didn't really sink in that "this knucklehead ninja who started in 1999 is finally hokage".

    It felt kinda empty.
    That because after the Chunin exam become hokage was never seriously taken in consideration. Just the final brought that fact "becoming Hokage" again.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by ShinigamiKing View Post
    Yeah but the whole jonin thing kinda became meaningless as the show went on. Kishimoto didn't even follow his own internal logic, or acknowledge it's change. Strategy became useless, and I feel Naruto already had the brute strength and experience anyways. At the very least, he could have had involved advisors like Tsunade.

    I mean, Tsunade and Hiruzen weren't shown doing much paperwork.



    I guess I'm just mad at how Shippuden turned out... ugh...

    Naruto Part 1 was a legitimately great show, the more and more I watch it. Yeah it had a few flaws, but it hammered in all the essentials very well, or even exceptionally. It's still one of the few works I've watched it where I've seriously rooted for the main characters, even 10 years later. Hell, one of the few shonen to legit be as good if not better than One Piece at it's own peak.

    I hate how Naruto's basic narrative/plot basically got rewritten and retconned. It was never supposed to be/never should have been some sort of Naruto/Sasuke parallel story and how they're fates intertwined with and dealt with by the Akatsuki and all that jazz.

    Like, they say that there's so much violence in the ninja world and that the villages always fight... yet literally all of what we see in the current show is just Akatsuki attacking. The worldbuilding fell apart too, and the way they handled the generations/supporting characters also felt very odd compared to part 1.

    EDIT: Why is there a gap between geenrations? The rookie 9 were special plus Rock Lee's group are special, but where are the people between them and Kakashi's group?

    PEople who would be 15 or 16 years old at the start of part 1?

    Are they all weak or something? It's okay if they're not shown early on, but as the series begins to focus on the major grand missions... it wouldn't hurt to show people from outside Naruto's sphere. Other jonin, etc.
    The lacking of proper world building doesn't start at part 2. Part 1 had already the same problems, but fortunately we were in the introduction phase of the series. Try to remember what happened in part 1: - Village Introduction, Bridge construction arc(remember how the bad guy was the richest man in the world? Yep he was), Chuunin Exam, Tsunade Hokage recruitment(do you remember the places that Naruto and Jiraya passed by, and where did they found Tsunade? And What and Why was Tsunade outside of the village doing?), Sasuke Retrieval Mission(Remember where Naruto and is group passed on? It was just random trees. The only place of reference was the Valley of the End).

    Also is important to note that Kishimoto said that the story started just focusing with Naruto and Sasuke, because he loves Sword of the Immortal, and from the beginning he wanted to do Naruto plot go in the same direction: Starting as something more open and just funneling it in just a single point.

  11. #9331
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigivel View Post
    There is no Jonin test, the all thing is done through recommendation letters!
    Of course, in brown envelopes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

    It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

  12. #9332
    Discovered Stowaway Bigivel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    Of course, in brown envelopes.

    You may be joking, but it was made official with the movie road of ninja, that was written by Kishimoto

  13. #9333

    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigivel View Post
    There is no Jonin test, the all thing is done through recommendation letters!

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---



    That because after the Chunin exam become hokage was never seriously taken in consideration. Just the final brought that fact "becoming Hokage" again.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---



    The lacking of proper world building doesn't start at part 2. Part 1 had already the same problems, but fortunately we were in the introduction phase of the series. Try to remember what happened in part 1: - Village Introduction, Bridge construction arc(remember how the bad guy was the richest man in the world? Yep he was), Chuunin Exam, Tsunade Hokage recruitment(do you remember the places that Naruto and Jiraya passed by, and where did they found Tsunade? And What and Why was Tsunade outside of the village doing?), Sasuke Retrieval Mission(Remember where Naruto and is group passed on? It was just random trees. The only place of reference was the Valley of the End).

    Also is important to note that Kishimoto said that the story started just focusing with Naruto and Sasuke, because he loves Sword of the Immortal, and from the beginning he wanted to do Naruto plot go in the same direction: Starting as something more open and just funneling it in just a single point.
    The world building point makes a lot of sense. However, I feel like that's a bit of a discredit to part 1; they still did a good job establishing ninja hierarchy, and allowing the plot to be driven by the elements of the world itself (naruto stealing a forbidden scroll, having to undergo a ninja exam, to become a higher ranked ninja, etc.). Those elements are apart of the world, hence why the plot moved so seamlessly in Part 1.


    It's similar to One Piece; early on, the series was also limited. However, unlike Shippuden, One Piece saw itself introducing major characters - and their influence on the story/world - as Luffy got more important in the world.

    That's why the characters react to certain things the way they do: take for instance, the void century thing. Crocodile needs Robin, because she knows about the poneglyph, because she's from Ohara, hence why she's on the run, because the government wants to kill her, because they want to conceal the void century. And you see how seamlessly the CP9 Saga comes into fruition afterwards.

    That's because Oda planned ahead so well.

    That's something Shippuden needed sorely.


    Can I get a source for the Kishimoto comment if possible? That's sounds fascinating. As a writer, I hate having to be formulaic, so I don't have an inherent problem with Kishimoto planning for Naruto to change it's style up.

    But I feel that he really didn't do it in a good way. I think the reason why is because doing that requires an intense amount of effort, given how Naruto started: it was the type of series that had a very established world (or was trending in that direction). If he were to fulfill it (by adressing the whole generation "gap" I mentioned, planning ahead for other villages and their important characters, and working in the elements of the world like the amount of orphans and violence into the ninja politc/hokage business), and try to make it a parallel story of Naruto and Sasuke by the end, it would have taken a rigorous amount of planning ahead - hence why Eichiro Oda of One Piece is so stressed.

    It would have helped if Sasuke's screentime wasn't so little in Part 1 as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    It became meaningless because Kishimoto made it so. Instead of letting the story last a while to let Naruto and others mature a little, while giving more attention to world building, he compressed the whole of part 2 in, what, a couple of months?
    That's a good point. The show lost it's flow. The whole of part 2 just seemed to be the Sasuke/Akatsuki show, and Kishimoto disregarded his former style. I wouldn't even mind it if he at least worked it into the themes of the show.

    It would be like as if the whitebeard war saga was part 2 of One Piece, and it ended there with Luffy suddenly being pirate king 2 months after beating akainu.
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  14. #9334

    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption

    It also helps to compare the timeskips. We still don't know the full consequences of the Shabody timeskip aliances formed and broke down, world powers changed, scientific advancement happened, while here in ninja world the characters changed their desings. That's it. If they went into the time chamber of dragon ball it would have accomplished mostly the same, it was like "and nothing mayor happened in these years".

    Some of Dragon Ball timeskips were like this, we can't measure it the same way as the world was never the focus over the characters, but using the characters as the points of reference they do grow, marry and have kids, or become hermits in the dessert, or be forgotten by Toriyama. Dragon Ball has at least seven timeskips, eight if you count the last chapter (I might be counting wrong). Out of those, only the ones of "let's train and nothing else" keep the status quo, and even during one of those we got the most surprising change, Goku grown up. The changes were inmediately aparent, no surprises or new Dog as the king of the world, but as they were so many, and Toriyama didn't make a big deal out of them, it wasn't that relevant.
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  15. #9335
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption

    Oh come on, Naruto did come back from his long training with a bigger variation of a technique he already knew and a non perfected genjutsu countering skill.
    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

    It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

  16. #9336
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption

    Did Naruto ever get good at dispelling ANY level of Genjutsu by himself? And I mean without relying on the Nine-Tails.

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  17. #9337
    Discovered Stowaway El-Matematico's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption

    I don't think Naruto ever got good at doing anything without the Ninetails. His shadow clone jutsu was posible because of the huge chakra pool. When Orochimaru blocked the Nintetails chakra, Naruto couldn't even use basic techniques like walking on water. And then he and Jiraiya gave up on jutsus because Naruto couldn't do hand seals, so they went the rasengan route. He learned how to summon the toads and used them sparingly. After that what, his power ups consisted on going N-tail mode (with N less than 6 for the most part, if I remember). Maybe the wind rasengan, but again he mastered it through his huge chakra pool to train tens of times faster. Sage mode might be the only case of a technique where he didn't abuse the Ninetails or his chakra directly, but it got outclassed by tailed Naruto in its debut. Then Naruto and Ninetails trained to become friends and all that previous stuff didn't matter too much.

    So stuff that Naruto could have done without Ninetails:
    Summon big toads.
    Rasengan, probably. Just the incomplete version, unless we saw him as an adult after years of training like it was supposed to be for the rasenshuriken.
    Sage mode, provided he could mantain a single shadow clone (or he learned how to stay put like a normal human being).
    Exploding tag to the ass.
    Wash your hands.

  18. #9338

    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Matematico View Post

    So stuff that Naruto could have done without Ninetails:
    Summon big toads.
    Rasengan, probably. Just the incomplete version, unless we saw him as an adult after years of training like it was supposed to be for the rasenshuriken.
    Sage mode, provided he could mantain a single shadow clone (or he learned how to stay put like a normal human being).
    Exploding tag to the ass.
    You forgot turning into a naked lady.

  19. #9339

    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption

    Quote Originally Posted by KageKageKing View Post
    You forgot turning into a naked lady.
    And farting in Kiba's face.

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    Did Naruto ever get good at dispelling ANY level of Genjutsu by himself? And I mean without relying on the Nine-Tails.
    No not that he needed to anyway considering Genjutsu's mostly fell to the way side over massive crowd killing Ninjutsu arts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  20. #9340

    Default Re: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption

    Quote Originally Posted by KageKageKing View Post
    You forgot turning into a naked lady.
    And turning into a harem of pretty boys to distract the end villain.

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