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Thread: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation

  1. #7381

    Default Re: Burrito Thread 1100: Even Neji is Deader than this Series!

    Said this many times before, but...

    Naruto's story only makes sense when its assumed that

    -trapping the kyuubi inside of him was an unheard of desperation move
    -Naruto's being an accident just made it absolutely monstrous that someone would do it on PURPOSE to make Gaara
    -almost no one knew about it. Just the hokage and his top advisors, Kakashi perhaps. (For certain NONE of the kids knew, they just followed their parent's example.)
    -it was assumed Naruto was basically an amnesiac Kyuubi rather than a host, and so was unfairly blamed and ostracized for what the Kyuubi did... (every single person lost family to it after all) and Iruka was one of the only ones that saw him as his own person.

    Which just all fell apart when we discovered his dad was hokage, it was planned all along, and that being a Kyuubi host is a generations old tradition that every village does with a ton of precedent including Naruto's bloodline being specifically good at it. At which point the setup makes no sense at all.
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  2. #7382
    The Nice Guy Outerspec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Burrito Thread 1100: Even Neji is Deader than this Series!

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Said this many times before, but...

    Naruto's story only makes sense when its assumed that

    -trapping the kyuubi inside of him was an unheard of desperation move
    -Naruto's being an accident just made it absolutely monstrous that someone would do it on PURPOSE to make Gaara
    -almost no one knew about it. Just the hokage and his top advisors, Kakashi perhaps. (For certain NONE of the kids knew, they just followed their parent's example.)
    -it was assumed Naruto was basically an amnesiac Kyuubi rather than a host, and so was unfairly blamed and ostracized for what the Kyuubi did... (every single person lost family to it after all) and Iruka was one of the only ones that saw him as his own person.

    Which just all fell apart when we discovered his dad was hokage, it was planned all along, and that being a Kyuubi host is a generations old tradition that every village does with a ton of precedent including Naruto's bloodline being specifically good at it. At which point the setup makes no sense at all.
    I don't know about Naruto being the Kyubi host as something that was planned all along. In fact, I'm pretty sure that wasn't planned by his parents. Unless you're throwing him being a host for the 9 Tails in together with his 'Destiny'.

    But those things don't make the story make sense. Not really.There's no glaring plothole that can't be explained and filled in. Those asumptions just makes the story better like if you were to take out the whole reincarnated destiny thing.
    Last edited by Outerspec; January 21st, 2015 at 06:37 PM.
    Everything's Eventual...


  3. #7383

    Default Re: Burrito Thread 1100: Even Neji is Deader than this Series!

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Said this many times before, but...

    Naruto's story only makes sense when its assumed that

    -trapping the kyuubi inside of him was an unheard of desperation move
    -Naruto's being an accident just made it absolutely monstrous that someone would do it on PURPOSE to make Gaara
    -almost no one knew about it. Just the hokage and his top advisors, Kakashi perhaps. (For certain NONE of the kids knew, they just followed their parent's example.)
    -it was assumed Naruto was basically an amnesiac Kyuubi rather than a host, and so was unfairly blamed and ostracized for what the Kyuubi did... (every single person lost family to it after all) and Iruka was one of the only ones that saw him as his own person.

    Which just all fell apart when we discovered his dad was hokage, it was planned all along, and that being a Kyuubi host is a generations old tradition that every village does with a ton of precedent including Naruto's bloodline being specifically good at it. At which point the setup makes no sense at all.
    That last one where did that bit come from?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
    3DS Friend Code 0044-2806-5284




  4. #7384
    The Powers that Be Airflow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Burrito Thread 1100: Even Neji is Deader than this Series!

    oh is Naruto also a descendant of a super magical mystical family that gives him all sorts of hereditary powers gee what a surprise

    You know I kinda liked the message Kishimoto set up when Naruto beat Neji way back when. Shame the next 500 chapters was that being message being stomped into the ground mercilessly.

  5. #7385

    Default Re: Burrito Thread 1100: Even Neji is Deader than this Series!

    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Because the Jinchuurikis are considered as the village's most powerful weapons to be used in times of war/defense.

    You don't want your super-powerful weapon off in some isolated hut away from your village guarded by 2 garbage Anbu who can be killed and your powerful weapon taken away. We all know how terrible the "elite" Anbu fighters are. You need at least a whole village of them to be anywhere near effective.
    This would make sense if....again, the villagers (as in ALL the freaking villages) weren't dumbasses and poking the walking atom bomb with a stick. Why provoke and ostracize it if it's supposed to be your super weapon? If Kishi had a good reason why everyone wanted to poke fun at the atom bomb, then I would really like to hear it. Otherwise, I would think it is best to keep a ticking time bomb as FAR AWAY from your village if by chance some idiot pokes the bomb too hard. (And also monitored by some competent people whoever they may be since I SUPPOSE the ANBU are a bunch of chumps in this universe...again...logic.)

    And I know that hiding out somewhere with a new name/identity should be fairly effective from keeping any pokemon hunters from finding Naruto. Why? Simply because the Naruto logic dictates that Obito managed to fool everyone even while walking around in plain sight calling himself TOBI and wearing a mask with his right sharingan eye exposed. NO ONE CONNECTED THE DOTS?! Yeah Naruto shouldn't have any problems hiding out somewhere with a new identity since the universe is inhabited only with morons.

    So again, why couldn't they just put Naruto in someplace where he could possibly NOT be provoked? Or better yet, WHY provoke him in the first place? It's just so...dumb.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Airflow View Post
    oh is Naruto also a descendant of a super magical mystical family that gives him all sorts of hereditary powers gee what a surprise

    You know I kinda liked the message Kishimoto set up when Naruto beat Neji way back when. Shame the next 500 chapters was that being message being stomped into the ground mercilessly.
    In retrospect, it seems Kishi really set himself up for failure at the VERY beginning. If anything, he should have never planted that "hard working schmuck" theme in our heads in the first place because he obviously picked the wrong protagonist to do it. Clearly if he REALLY wanted to communicate that theme, he could have easily done it with Rock Lee (the guy who embodies this theme a LOT more effective than Naruto does). But nope...

  6. #7386

    Default Re: Burrito Thread 1100: Even Neji is Deader than this Series!

    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    I don't know about Naruto being the Kyubi host as something that was planned all along. In fact, I'm pretty sure that wasn't planned by his parents. Unless you're throwing him being a host for the 9 Tails in together with his 'Destiny'.
    Maybe it hadn't been planned for *at birth* and more like "when you're 18", but his father absolutely set him up for it. Had the seals and the chakra split and everything set up, and organized some of it with the frogs and Jiraiya, and very specifically stated he planned on Naruto having those powers.

    But those things don't the story make sense. Not really.There's no glaring plothole that can't be explained and filled in. Those asumptions just makes the story better like if you were to take out the whole reincarnated destiny thing.
    If you have to fill in the plotholes as a reader, its a problem. Its one thing for a story to not provide every single last detail of something and not hold your hand, letting you fill in some of the blanks, its another to just constantly retcon, contradict, fail to follow up, and introduce elements completely out of nowhere.

    There's a heavy difference between not knowing the name of some character's mother, or the history of some random item... and saying that "No, the entire message of the first 300 chapters is opposite of what actually is the case. And also zombies!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    That last one where did that bit come from?
    His mother was the previous Kyuubi host and her bloodline (and anyone with red hair apparently) are very very good at containing tailed beasts (except at childbirth) and its the reason Bee's village kidnapped her in the first place and the fourth had to go rescue her. (A reason that was first passed off as "because she had red hair")

    So Naruto is the son of the Hokage (whose bloodline was like 4 of the 6 hokages in the village)
    AND sacred bloodline kyuubi host vessel line
    AND has the Kyuubi inside him
    AND has the strongest ninjas around as his teachers
    AND that's before you start bringing how he and Sasuke are related to the most ancient and powerful ninja of all
    AND and are also reincarnations of other powerful uber legendary ninjas.

    Yeha, so much for hard work. ALL destiny and bloodlines.
    To support Viz hosting all Jump manga for FREE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
    https://www.viz.com/shonenjump

    Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version, and just discuss those releases in the spoiler thread.

  7. #7387

    Default Re: Burrito Thread 1100: Even Neji is Deader than this Series!

    It's as the old saying goes. All work and no reincarnation or birthline makes Jack a nobody in the Naruto universe

  8. #7388

    Default Re: Burrito Thread 1100: Even Neji is Deader than this Series!

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    So Naruto is the son of the Hokage (whose bloodline was like 4 of the 6 hokages in the village)
    AND sacred bloodline kyuubi host vessel line
    AND has the Kyuubi inside him
    AND has the strongest ninjas around as his teachers
    AND that's before you start bringing how he and Sasuke are related to the most ancient and powerful ninja of all
    AND and are also reincarnations of other powerful uber legendary ninjas.

    Yeha, so much for hard work. ALL destiny and bloodlines.
    Geez. Kinda makes all the "Naruto with godtier power" fanfics really redundant.





  9. #7389

    Default Re: Burrito Thread 1100: Even Neji is Deader than this Series!

    Yeah, next generation is going to have a really hard time topping that one, all things considered.
    To support Viz hosting all Jump manga for FREE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
    https://www.viz.com/shonenjump

    Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version, and just discuss those releases in the spoiler thread.

  10. #7390

    Default Re: Burrito Thread 1100: Even Neji is Deader than this Series!

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Yeah, next generation is going to have a really hard time topping that one, all things considered.
    Hey hey now, don't forget that Burrito is the son of this godtier ninja and his wife who as of The Last is also of some sort of super lineage or something like that. Burrito's got even extra potential to succeed only to be nothing more than a shadow of his father

  11. #7391

    Default Re: Burrito Thread 1100: Even Neji is Deader than this Series!

    It's all good guys, Burrito can make his keep by getting the powers of a death god. Then all he needs is an absurdly big sword and lightning charged flowing blonde hair.



    wait.....





  12. #7392
    The Nice Guy Outerspec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Burrito Thread 1100: Even Neji is Deader than this Series!

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    That last one where did that bit come from?
    He's saying if you assume it to be true (or if it were the case) then it would make more sense. He's not saying that's how it actually was.

    Quote Originally Posted by valiantt View Post
    This would make sense if....again, the villagers (as in ALL the freaking villages) weren't dumbasses and poking the walking atom bomb with a stick. Why provoke and ostracize it if it's supposed to be your super weapon? If Kishi had a good reason why everyone wanted to poke fun at the atom bomb, then I would really like to hear it. Otherwise, I would think it is best to keep a ticking time bomb as FAR AWAY from your village if by chance some idiot pokes the bomb too hard. (And also monitored by some competent people whoever they may be since I SUPPOSE the ANBU are a bunch of chumps in this universe...again...logic.)

    And I know that hiding out somewhere with a new name/identity should be fairly effective from keeping any pokemon hunters from finding Naruto. Why? Simply because the Naruto logic dictates that Obito managed to fool everyone even while walking around in plain sight calling himself TOBI and wearing a mask with his right sharingan eye exposed. NO ONE CONNECTED THE DOTS?! Yeah Naruto shouldn't have any problems hiding out somewhere with a new identity since the universe is inhabited only with morons.

    So again, why couldn't they just put Naruto in someplace where he could possibly NOT be provoked? Or better yet, WHY provoke him in the first place? It's just so...dumb.
    No one thinks there's a "good" the reason for what the villager's did. I made a whole post here about it.

    http://www.apforums.netwww.apforums....=1#post3189911

    There's just a reason. It's stupid, no one's arguing otherwise. That's just how the people operate in that world. Yes, there is reason behind it and Kishi treats it as a normal thing in the Naruniverse but it's a reason operated on most of the people being ignorant. Still, it's a better idea than leaving him away from the village to be taken or influenced by another nation. I don't think it was the name that fooled everyone in the manga. I think it was the fact that Obito was a very low ranking Uchiha boy. He presumably died during the war. Only Kakashi saw him with the Sharingan. Those few who did know Obito some 15 years ago probably didn't think he was back alive and all grown up now trying to take over the world.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    If you have to fill in the plotholes as a reader, its a problem. Its one thing for a story to not provide every single last detail of something and not hold your hand, letting you fill in some of the blanks, its another to just constantly retcon, contradict, fail to follow up, and introduce elements completely out of nowhere.

    There's a heavy difference between not knowing the name of some character's mother, or the history of some random item... and saying that "No, the entire message of the first 300 chapters is opposite of what actually is the case. And also zombies!".
    The setup still makes sense. There was just a bunch of unnecessary crap added on to it. That's what I'm trying to say. The unnecessary reincarnation, super bloodlines, and destiny just add lead to the storyline and it takes away the impact of the beginning story and themes, but it doesn't take away from the...continuity of Naruto's beginnings? Like, Naruto is still the little orphan boy with the Kyubi in his stomach who was hated by the village. He just happens to be the little destined orphan boy who's related to a lot of famous people and hated by the village.

    Its been shown time and time again though that no matter who you're related to or what your standing is, if you're a Jinchuuriki you'll still be hated though so moot for the bloodline and being the 4th's son. Of course, the village didn't even know he was the 4th's son, Kushina's son, or of course that he was the reincarnation of Ashura. Nobody knew that he was the reincarnation of Ashura...
    Everything's Eventual...


  13. #7393
    Discovered Stowaway Bigivel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Burrito Thread 1100: Even Neji is Deader than this Series!

    The real question is: If Jiraya, Naruto Godfather, could take him when he was only 13 years old and for 3 entire years. Why couldn't, and why did that not happen, when he was younger?
    Did Jiraya really didn't gave a fuck about his Godson for 13 entire years?

  14. #7394

    Default Re: Burrito Thread 1100: Even Neji is Deader than this Series!

    Jiraiya was too busy chasing Oro's sweet, sweet ass for 13 years or more

  15. #7395

    Default Re: Burrito Thread 1100: Even Neji is Deader than this Series!

    Scan for the upcoming Kakashi novel :

    Spoiler:

    One Pace - The One Piece anime without the filler and padding.
    AP Discord

  16. #7396
    potentially on hiatus Ordinary's Avatar
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    Default Re: Burrito Thread 1100: Even Neji is Deader than this Series!

    Even Speedwagon thinks Naruto is too dead for this.

  17. #7397

    Default Re: Burrito Thread 1100: Even Neji is Deader than this Series!

    One thing keeps bothering me though. Obito became what he was only because of his hatred for Kakashi, cause' Kakashi killed Rin. But was it , at any point, explained why Kakashi did it? I mean seriously, did Kishimoto ever explain it in the manga??
    Think happy thoughts

  18. #7398

    Default Re: Burrito Thread 1100: Even Neji is Deader than this Series!

    Quote Originally Posted by ShimpanzeeThat View Post
    One thing keeps bothering me though. Obito became what he was only because of his hatred for Kakashi, cause' Kakashi killed Rin. But was it , at any point, explained why Kakashi did it? I mean seriously, did Kishimoto ever explain it in the manga??
    apparently she had the three-tails forcibly sealed into her by Madara. To prevent herself being used against Konoha, she had Kakashi kill her.

  19. #7399

    Default Re: Burrito Thread 1100: Even Neji is Deader than this Series!

    She did? well killing a little girl seems a little bit extreme. He could have offered help, send her to Konoha.
    Think happy thoughts

  20. #7400
    Discovered Stowaway 'ko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Burrito Thread 1100: Even Neji is Deader than this Series!

    Quote Originally Posted by Daz View Post
    That number 4 still amazes me with its awfulness; its seriously some of the worst perspective fuckuppery I've ever seen. How did any editor ever accept it?
    why do you find it so awful? I think it's fine, and it goes back to a time when Kishi actually cared. There is a lot more attention to detail and colors than most of the other 9 images

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