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Thread: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation

  1. #5001

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI: One week more

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickamott View Post
    Fitting? Hmm, interesting question. I'd say this ending (as in the past five or so chapters) is indeed fitting for what the series has become. It's not great, but at least he's delivering on the bare necessities of what needs to be told to not piss off the fandom. By that I mean showing Naruto and Sasuke's final fight and resolution.

    Regarding all other subplots going on, my issues with his handling of them go back to my personal issues with the war in general. That is that the war itself wasn't a bad idea in general, just that Kishimoto often (and throughout the story) makes poor decision as to *what* to show the readers and how much emphasis he places on them. Because of this the majority of the war felt like "filler" as either;

    1) Its introduction directly contradicted the previous continuity
    2) Its introduction rehashed old ground
    3) and/or worst, it was introduced only to never be resolved, thus being ignored.

    For your first question, honestly now that all is said and done I can say that I certainly do like the story overall. Part of it could be nostalgia, or the fact that I only actively followed Naruto for one year, having caught up last October. This is unlike a lot of you who may have been following for the entirety of the war, and this may or may not affect the disparity in some of our views. Also, most of these problems I now understand about Naruto simply did not come to mind as I marathoned it last year as I was too busy trying to catch up rather than analyze the show. Now this doesn't forgive Naruto's poor storytelling but it does make it much more enjoyable for the one who's watching/reading.

    Along the same lines, I caught up with One Piece in the middle of Punk Hazard and as such was able to experience Fishman Island in one go. I absolutely love FI, and in no way did I think it's pacing/flashback was an issue. There was also much less build up for Hody so there was negligible disappointment, considering I had only been invested in this particular villain for a couple days. Now, this is somewhat of a strained analogy considering inherent difference in storytelling quality between Naruto and One Piece despite their"slow paced" arcs, but my point is this.

    Naruto is a highly enjoyable experience despite its (many) flaws. Though my opinion of it is somewhat negative as of late, I see myself forgiving it for a lot of its flaws when I inevitably reread the whole thing in one go, in the same way I forgive Dragon Ball and Digimon (not saying the stories are wholly comparable, just the flaws) of theirs. I'm not saying it's Berserk or One Piece quality (it *isn't*), just that there enough redeemable qualities to warrant me not regretting my time spent with it enough to, in the end, say that I like the story of Naruto.
    This is an extremely fair conclusion. The nostalgia factor is definitely good.
    Here’s how Naruto should end: Last panel is Naruto standing proudly over Konohagakure. Slowly zoom out to reveal Luffy staring into a snowglobe with a miniature Konoha inside it. Usopp asks him what he’s doing. Luffy replies “Thinkin’ bout ninjas! Ninjas are cool!” and then chucks it off the ship

  2. #5002

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI: It's the final countdown! Frenchiboos.

    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    We're going to have to agree to disagree on this. In no way do I see Hashirama saying goodbye to Madara, who he always thought of as a friend, as some kind of redemption or even an attempt at a redemption. Just because there are parallels between the Uchiha amd Senju doesn't mean they've all been redeemed.

    Indra was never redeemed and neither do I think was Madara.
    The point is that parallels and the implications behind the Love Cancer thing insinuate that the Uchihas were not at fault. What else is Kishi trying to accomplish if that's not what he had in mind for introducing something so dumb? And the fact he has this final scene with Mad/Hash suggests that's the direction he is going with by not off screening him or just simply forgetting that he exists in general (much like Kaguya immediately after she's defeated).

  3. #5003

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI: One week more

    Quote Originally Posted by Nex View Post
    and this one has been around for three-and-a-half years. That's not a good indicator of fun and whimsy to me.
    Actually THIS thread was closed for a while. Its been the Naruto/Bleach thread for the last couple years, which has gone through several threads each 500 pages.

    It only re-split and re-opened when the end was announced three weeks ago, and it's moved about 50 pages in that time.
    To support Viz hosting all Jump manga for FREE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
    https://www.viz.com/shonenjump

    Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version, and just discuss those releases in the spoiler thread.

  4. #5004

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI: One week more

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmamentHero View Post
    Did you like the story overall? Do you think this is a fitting ending?
    I'd be satisfied if Kishi somehow makes a coherent way to reveal how Naruto became Hokage (or drops this dream altogether). And no "the 10 years later and BOOM he's Hokage for no reason in the future" in one panel is not a good coherent way to show how he became Hokage material.

  5. #5005

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI: One week more

    Quote Originally Posted by valiantt View Post
    I'd be satisfied if Kishi somehow makes a coherent way to reveal how Naruto became Hokage (or drops this dream altogether). And no "the 10 years later and BOOM he's Hokage for no reason in the future" in one panel is not a good coherent way to show how he became Hokage material.
    If Kishi is able to write a good transitional epilogue, then that'd be most fitting. With explanations and flashback panels to balance it out.
    Here’s how Naruto should end: Last panel is Naruto standing proudly over Konohagakure. Slowly zoom out to reveal Luffy staring into a snowglobe with a miniature Konoha inside it. Usopp asks him what he’s doing. Luffy replies “Thinkin’ bout ninjas! Ninjas are cool!” and then chucks it off the ship

  6. #5006

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI: One week more

    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    If you told me 6 years ago that Sasuke wanted to be Hokage and his big brother was his main influence I wouldn't have believed you because that's how drastically different he is from his past self. Yeah, he's still moody and full of himself but he has changed in some significant way.
    The problem with that is... if I had told you six WEEKS ago that was the case, it wouldn't be true! His desire to be hokage literally came out of nowhere! Nowhere!!! Just to set up this final fight at the last possible second with no motivation otherwise!

    Much like his flip flop to the goodguy's side after being told a story by the old hokage.
    Much like his flip flop after he basically tried to kill his new teammates as he was eaten by teh darkness.
    Much like his flip flop after being told a lie by Tobi.
    Much like his flip flop after learning the truth about Itachi and not taking away the proper lesson from it.
    Much like his flip flop when he first became impressed by Naruto.

    That's NOT DEVELOPMENT, that's bending to the whim of stretching out the plot.

    And now, at the end of the fight, if you just read his speech, every thing he says applied to twelve year old Naruto's attitude and determination to be his friend... and nothing else from along the way. Purely the exact same things Naruto said and did ten years ago. Its not different at all. It's just pretending it is.
    To support Viz hosting all Jump manga for FREE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
    https://www.viz.com/shonenjump

    Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version, and just discuss those releases in the spoiler thread.

  7. #5007

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI: One week more



    This pretty much defined todays Nardo chapter.

  8. #5008

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI: It's the final countdown! Frenchiboos.

    Quote Originally Posted by kouch_lee View Post
    The trail of blood from each severed arms actually makes it seem like they're holding hands, like that image (I think it was at the end of part I) where they grab their fingers or something like that.

    I thought that was pretty clear, honestly.

    ED: Also, that image is pretty stupid the moment we KNOW the movie will be a canon epilogue to the manga and both Naruto and Sasuke have their arms in there, so. . .yeah. I don't think they'll have to live with a severed arms much longer.
    I'm now realizing that I read this chapter with such a lack of "give a shit" that I never even registered that their blood crossed. The only thing I thought was "if you bleed from a severed arm for an entire day there would be more blood than that, right?" That's literally the only thought that was in my head.

    Perhaps that says something about my reading comprehension, but I think it says more about how little Naruto's finale has made me care.

  9. #5009

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI: It's the final countdown! Frenchiboos.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    What people coming into this thread now, or within the last six months, or who just skim it ocassionally without actually regularly reading it...

    What they can't appreciate about the reaction we have, is that we didn't just jump in and bash the series for fun one day, it was a long, slow decline. We didn't overnight go "I hate Naruto now, lets make fun of it." It happened over *years*, more than a *decade* for some of us. Going from "this series is really good and I like it!" to "That arc was a little bit weak, maybe it'll be better next arc" (middle of part 2) to "wow, that arc was bad" to "holy crap this is awful" to "there is just no chance of this series ever fixing itself now" (around the Pain deus ex machina) to "is it over yet?"

    And by the time we got to the obvious end arc (and we didn't know it was going to last FOUR YEARS) we'd already been committed to it for a long time. Several years of enjoyment, then several years of hope... full of apathy, but still wanting to see how it ended... and commiserating with other in just HOW bad it had gotten. Its a nice release.
    The only thing I'm waiting for now, after all these years, is to send Naruto off once and for all with one final rendition of Bohemian Rhapsody at the end of this thread.

    It will be grand.

    It will be magical.

    It will be 700 chapters in the making.

  10. #5010

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI: One week more

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobodyman View Post
    You know, I hate to admit it, but while I was reading this chapter, I actually felt....kind of moved. It honestly felt like Kishi was touching on some real human emotions here and for a moment I believed that, despite everything that's happened, there really was some kind of deep connection between these two characters.
    Oh yeah, that chapter might actually have been good, if there were some kind of build-up that actually corresponds with these expressed feelings. Like building up this connection by having way more shown missions back as Team 7.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobodyman View Post
    But then I remembered that their "friendship" was horribly contrived and Sasuke turned into a lunatic who tried to murder people.
    Oh yeah, and then you awake from your dreams having to face the bitter truth...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobodyman View Post
    Also, if their hands were severed and they slept till morning, then how come neither of them have bled to death yet? And what the hell have Kakashi and Sakura been doing?
    Because they are destined to live on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobodyman View Post
    And what the hell have Kakashi and Sakura been doing?
    They celebrated Naruto's birthday?

  11. #5011

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI: One week more

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickamott View Post
    Fitting? Hmm, interesting question. I'd say this ending (as in the past five or so chapters) is indeed fitting for what the series has become. It's not great, but at least he's delivering on the bare necessities of what needs to be told to not piss off the fandom. By that I mean showing Naruto and Sasuke's final fight and resolution.

    Regarding all other subplots going on, my issues with his handling of them go back to my personal issues with the war in general. That is that the war itself wasn't a bad idea in general, just that Kishimoto often (and throughout the story) makes poor decision as to *what* to show the readers and how much emphasis he places on them. Because of this the majority of the war felt like "filler" as either;

    1) Its introduction directly contradicted the previous continuity
    2) Its introduction rehashed old ground
    3) and/or worst, it was introduced only to never be resolved, thus being ignored.

    For your first question, honestly now that all is said and done I can say that I certainly do like the story overall. Part of it could be nostalgia, or the fact that I only actively followed Naruto for one year, having caught up last October. This is unlike a lot of you who may have been following for the entirety of the war, and this may or may not affect the disparity in some of our views. Also, most of these problems I now understand about Naruto simply did not come to mind as I marathoned it last year as I was too busy trying to catch up rather than analyze the show. Now this doesn't forgive Naruto's poor storytelling but it does make it much more enjoyable for the one who's watching/reading.

    Along the same lines, I caught up with One Piece in the middle of Punk Hazard and as such was able to experience Fishman Island in one go. I absolutely love FI, and in no way did I think it's pacing/flashback was an issue. There was also much less build up for Hody so there was negligible disappointment, considering I had only been invested in this particular villain for a couple days. Now, this is somewhat of a strained analogy considering inherent difference in storytelling quality between Naruto and One Piece despite their"slow paced" arcs, but my point is this.

    Naruto is a highly enjoyable experience despite its (many) flaws. Though my opinion of it is somewhat negative as of late, I see myself forgiving it for a lot of its flaws when I inevitably reread the whole thing in one go, in the same way I forgive Dragon Ball and Digimon (not saying the stories are wholly comparable, just the flaws) of theirs. I'm not saying it's Berserk or One Piece quality (it *isn't*), just that there enough redeemable qualities to warrant me not regretting my time spent with it enough to, in the end, say that I like the story of Naruto.
    Naruto is a huge turd past volume 16. I'm glad we had this discussion.

  12. #5012
    Discovered Stowaway Mickamott's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI: One week more

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Naruto is a huge turd past volume 16. I'm glad we had this discussion.
    Hoho! Classic Monkey King.

    3DS: 1993-7490-6080 NNID: Mickamott PSN: Mickamott

  13. #5013
    Discovered Stowaway Bigivel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI: One week more

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobodyman View Post
    You know, I hate to admit it, but while I was reading this chapter, I actually felt....kind of moved. It honestly felt like Kishi was touching on some real human emotions here and for a moment I believed that, despite everything that's happened, there really was some kind of deep connection between these two characters.

    But then I remembered that their "friendship" was horribly contrived and Sasuke turned into a lunatic who tried to murder people.

    Also, if their hands were severed and they slept till morning, then how come neither of them have bled to death yet? And what the hell have Kakashi and Sakura been doing?
    I don't know if you noticed, but they were battling in the morning. Then they severed their arms(not just hands), in the morning. And the chapter ended in the next morning. THEY WERE 1 ENTIRE DAY WITH THEIR ARMS SEVERED!

    And of course WHAT THE HELL HAVE KAKASHI AND SAKURA BEEN DOING?

  14. #5014
    The Tetsuo Ishimaru of AP Gizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI: It's the final countdown! Frenchiboos.

    Naruto was one of the first anime I got into. I watched this anime even before getting into One Piece. Think it was a just when the filler of pre-timeskip Naruto was nearing its end and the show was about to go into part 2 (I wonder if those filler episodes hold up or are held in a better light now knowing Kishi would never really give the spotlight to the other ninjas in part 2). Despite the dive in quality, I kept with it. Don't think I'd be invested enough to try to read or watch the show from the beginning, even just reading/watching up to the Part I, but it's been in my life all this time, whether near front and center or in the periphery. Since it has dragged on for so long I'm glad to see it end, but I'm hoping for a bland inoffensive ending than an ending that will irritate all the fans and delight all the haters. On my end, the series deserves that much at least.

    For an embarrassing story, I remember that an AMV first got me really intrigued about One Piece, and it was a Luffy vs Usopp amv with Naruto's 4th ending playing in the background. Don't think I'll ever find it as that was made around 2005-2006 I think. I dunno, the song hit a melancholy tune that affected me (I just want to point out I didn't really have context for the Luffy vs Usopp fight back then nor did I really understand what the song lyrics were really about).


    Quote Originally Posted by x20a View Post
    The only thing I'm waiting for now, after all these years, is to send Naruto off once and for all with one final rendition of Bohemian Rhapsody at the end of this thread.

    It will be grand.

    It will be magical.

    It will be 700 chapters in the making.
    Naw, attempts to recreate the what occurred around 3-5 years ago would just feel hallow. Very little has gone on lately that would indicate the magic could be done again and not feel artificial.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightwing
    Stay focused, cause right now you have a decision to make. Are you a man perpetually looking back at what he’s lost, or a man looking forward, to what he might become?

  15. #5015
    The Nice Guy Outerspec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI: One week more

    Quote Originally Posted by valiantt View Post
    The point is that parallels and the implications behind the Love Cancer thing insinuate that the Uchihas were not at fault. What else is Kishi trying to accomplish if that's not what he had in mind for introducing something so dumb? And the fact he has this final scene with Mad/Hash suggests that's the direction he is going with by not off screening him or just simply forgetting that he exists in general (much like Kaguya immediately after she's defeated).
    Kishi was never going to off-screen Uchiha Madara. He was built up as a final villain for over 300 chapters. Can't say the same for Kaguya. So yeah, he got 2 pages goodbye.

    The whole love cancer thing was used to explain the deeper mechanics of how an Uchiha gains a Sharingan after someone close to them dies. Yes, it can also be used as an excuse for why the Uchiha behave the way they do but then you have to look at a character like Uchiha Shisui who proves a Uchiha Clan member with a Sharingan doesn't = automatically hate filled person. Just because the Uchiha Clan is "cursed" doesn't mean they can all be redeemable. Kishi never went for that angle with Madara.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    The problem with that is... if I had told you six WEEKS ago that was the case, it wouldn't be true! His desire to be hokage literally came out of nowhere! Nowhere!!! Just to set up this final fight at the last possible second with no motivation otherwise!

    Much like his flip flop to the goodguy's side after being told a story by the old hokage.
    Much like his flip flop after he basically tried to kill his new teammates as he was eaten by teh darkness.
    Much like his flip flop after being told a lie by Tobi.
    Much like his flip flop after learning the truth about Itachi and not taking away the proper lesson from it.
    Much like his flip flop when he first became impressed by Naruto.

    That's NOT DEVELOPMENT, that's bending to the whim of stretching out the plot.

    And now, at the end of the fight, if you just read his speech, every thing he says applied to twelve year old Naruto's attitude and determination to be his friend... and nothing else from along the way. Purely the exact same things Naruto said and did ten years ago. Its not different at all. It's just pretending it is.
    Sasuke might be the Uchiha version of Mitt Romney but his goals and motivations have changed as the story has progressed.

    http://www.arlongpark.net/showthread...=1#post3317475

    That is development. I'm not debating for the quality of the development but you can't say, "The Naruto Sasuke fight is just the extension of the exact same fight they had FIVE HUNDRED AND FIFTY CHAPTERS AGO (this is true), and neither of the two has changed an ounce in personality or motivation since then! (not so much) "

    550 chapters ago they were fighting because Sasuke was trying to leave a village. 550 chapters later they're fighting for the fate of the world. In fact, Sasuke is fighting for exact opposite thing he was fighting for in Part 1. Before, he was fighting to leave the village and grow stronger to kill Itachi. Now, he fights in memory of Itachi and is trying to honor him by becoming what he believes to be a true Hokage.
    Everything's Eventual...


  16. #5016
    She got that B.A.P Lady Lover's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI: One week more

    I was pretty whatever about this chapter... Orochimaru can just hook these two up with new arms right?

  17. #5017

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI: One week more

    Orochimaru... hook up... *giggle*

  18. #5018
    Banned Rank: Failed Mutineer
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    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI: One week more

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Lover View Post
    I was pretty whatever about this chapter... Orochimaru can just hook these two up with new arms right?
    Naruto seems to have a new one in the movie.

  19. #5019

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI: One week more

    I for myself see it that way that it was an ok ending. The whole arc....eh, more lows than highs for me. The whole manga....was good till a certain point and afterwards.... I lost interest. Interest in the story, the characters and the world. It was just "there" and yet I couldn't get the same feeling of excitment and love I had once hold for it till that point. It was also when I stopped buying the volumes after noticing that I skimped through the pages instead to read them. :/
    At some point I just lost the connection and care I had once held in tons for Naruto and Sasuke (didn't had much for Sakura though, mostly pity for that girl. True shame her character never saw the light it needed to bloom. It was buried in tons of shi-fertilizer.) and with them the whole manga sort of lost the entertainment and excitement it had when they were still training to become Ninjas.

    I dunno, if I look back with it as nostalgic I see a lot of good points I had once enjoyed. if I look back at it with my disappointment I see lots of bad stuff that drowned those good points for me over the years.

    I don't regret reading Naruto though I do regret it didn't ended sooner but that's the mangaka's decison how long a story goes.

    I am glad that Naruto leaves, I don't wanna imagine how this would have go on for another 100 chapters and I guess neither could Kishi, and that it leaves with an ending I couldn't quite enjoy, mostly rolled my eyes at it^^, but one I can accept as fitting to it. With one of the big three leaving we get a new "manga era", at least a new place in Jump that needs somebody to fill it out, and it probably will put Bleach also on the spot. I can see Kubo trying to reach 700 chapters as well, but I am not so sure if he will really be able to reach them. But Bleach is another story.

    I hope though that Naruto ends for good and does not make a return as Naruto 2 or whatever... <_<

  20. #5020

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI: One week more

    I spent a lot of time and years on Naruto. I was pretty apathetic for over half of it but I can't hate it, and I don't feel I wasted my time (mostly). 2~5 minutes a week adds up but I probably would have read something worse in its place. I stopped trying to find anything good to read 2~3 years ago.

    To me Naruto is a good childhood friend and over the years the differences have piled up and I no longer see eye to eye with it. But that doesn't mean I hate it; well, in my case I've never hated anything fiction (maybe Wolf Guy but even then the furthest I would go is call it rapey bullshit.)

    The ending is about as good as one could have hoped for at this point. That doesn't mean it's good but... it's Naruto, I guess.

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