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Thread: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation

  1. #2461
    The Album Guy Nobodyman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Quote Originally Posted by Akumu View Post
    Bravo, if I may say so.

    Really well done.
    Thank you.

    Uh-huh.......

    Well I think I've decided to wait another month or two before jumping back in. In the hopes that things may improve? Wishful thinking I know.
    Dude, this is Naruto. The story doesn't improve, Kishi just...gets lucky now and then.

    Also, I must say, this is the first time I've visited this thread in a while, and I'm impressed to see actual Naruto discussion...or is this just a rare occurrence?
    Eh, we have to keep it kosher since we started abusing our off-topic privileges a while back.

  2. #2462

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Either way Naruto is following his destiny. He persistent never-give-up-on-a-person attitude is just a guarantee that he will confront Sasuke as is fated.



    I see what you're trying to say. You're saying The Great Toad is just looking into the future and telling Jiraiya what he sees. He sees a kid who does this all this awesome stuff and then reports back to Jiraiya the future events. Now here's your main point: The prophecy wouldn't be possible if it weren't for future Naruto's actions right? The prophecy is based off of future events, not a pre-determined destiny. Ok, let's pretend this whole Naruto bringing peace to the Ninja World or destroying it is just his choice, not his destiny or fate. Alright, now tell me this...

    Wouldn't you have to ignore everything and everyone in the manga that says this is his destiny? While you're at it how do you explain him being called the 'Destined Child'?

    The Great Toad did not create Naruto's destiny. He just announced it. Definition of destiny: "An event (or a course of events) that will inevitably happen in the future". As you said The Great Toad saw into the future and saw the inevitable events of Naruto's future. What The Great Toad saw...Naruto's destiny. Choices are too numerous and too unpredictable to tell the future with and to come out with such a certain answer as, 'This person will wind up in this exact position and be left with these certain choices'. Sounds more like destiny rather than The Great Toad predicting every single life choice Naruto will make in his life.



    The prophecy foretold that Jiraiya's student (the Destined Child) would either destroy the Ninja World or bring it peace. It turned out Naruto and Nagato together were the Destined Child so when Nagato sided with Naruto he helped choose the path of bringing peace to the Ninja World. Though, it should be noted Nagato was already trying to do that, just in a more doomsday device solution sort of way. Also Jiraiya choosing not to give up and writing that book helped choose the course of the world and blah, blah, blah...



    I just know where to find pages as reference for the mangas I read. I make mental notes for important or notable stuff in case I want to go back and confirm something.
    Yea, but Naruto is still following Sasuke because he wants to. If Naruto thought Sasuke was more special, he would of treated Gaara situation different. Instead he goes apeshit. Naruto would be doing the exact something if Sakura, Kakashi etc...

    The Great Toad says its a prediction himself http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v41/c376/15.html He can tell the future, just like the prophecy in OP about him destroying the island. They can't see how or why they did it, but they see that moment. Obviously Luffy isn't going to destroy it for no reason.
    Prophecy- A prediction of what will happen in the future.

  3. #2463
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    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    The Great Toad's predictions are always right so I don't see the significance of calling them predictions anyway. They're inevitable. At the end of the day Naruto will be fulfilling his destiny no matter how much you argue about it. Through all the choices he makes and routes he decides to take he'll still end up at the same inevitable conclusion. He'll still be the 'Destined Child'.
    Everything's Eventual...


  4. #2464

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    The Great Toad's predictions are always right so I don't see the significance of calling them predictions anyway. They're inevitable. At the end of the day Naruto will be fulfilling his destiny no matter how much you argue about it. Through all the choices he makes and routes he decides to take he'll still end up at the same inevitable conclusion. He'll still be the 'Destined Child'.
    What are you talking about? If he took another routh he wouldn't have had the prediction. He only end up has the this way because its his choice.

  5. #2465
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    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Quote Originally Posted by Namixluffy2 View Post
    What are you talking about? If he took another routh he wouldn't have had the prediction. He only end up has the this way because its his choice.
    What he's saying is Naruto did take this path, making the prophecy true. He could'Ve taken taken another, but he didn't. He fulfilled what the elder toad foresaw.

    3DS Friend Code: 2535-3762-9083

  6. #2466
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    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Quote Originally Posted by Namixluffy2 View Post
    What are you talking about? If he took another routh he wouldn't have had the prediction. He only end up has the this way because its his choice.
    *sigh*

    No Juju, he's not taking another route away from his ultimate destination. You don't understand that there can be many routes that lead to the same destination. Say your ultimate destination is Texas and and there are many routes to get there right? No matter what choices or routes you take, no matter what you'll still reach Texas! Unless you decide you don't want to go to Texas anymore but that's equivalent to saying Naruto wants to give up. Impossible. You want to argue that all of this happening only because of Naruto's choices despite the fact Kishi has clearly stated in the manga numerous times he's fated for this. That he's the "Destined Child"! Can't you see that no matter what choices or routes Naruto takes in his life he's still headed for the same destination? Towards his destiny?
    Everything's Eventual...


  7. #2467

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    *sigh*

    No Juju, he's not taking another route away from his ultimate destination. You don't understand that there can be many routes that lead to the same destination. Say your ultimate destination is Texas and and there are many routes to get there right? No matter what choices or routes you take, no matter what you'll still reach Texas! Unless you decide you don't want to go to Texas anymore but that's equivalent to saying Naruto wants to give up. Impossible. You want to argue that all of this happening only because of Naruto's choices despite the fact Kishi has clearly stated in the manga numerous times he's fated for this. That he's the "Destined Child"! Can't you see that no matter what choices or routes Naruto takes in his life he's still headed for the same destination? Towards his destiny?
    Sighh

    Lol You don't get it. I know about different routes leading to the same place. I wasn't debating anything like that. I said the frog saw the future years all. Naruto still made those choices to shape it.

    Hmmm no If Naruto made different choice he wouldn't have the prophecy. It would be different because he did something else. Prophecy- A PREDICTION of future events. Just like Naruto said to Sasuke he could of easily of been in his shoes because everybody hated him. But instead he CHOOSED not to be.

  8. #2468

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    The last sentence with you caps locking an obvious grammar mistake is so hilarious juju.

  9. #2469
    Finally came back around Akumu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Quote Originally Posted by Namixluffy2 View Post
    Sighh

    Lol You don't get it. I know about different routes leading to the same place. I wasn't debating anything like that. I said the frog saw the future years all. Naruto still made those choices to shape it.

    Hmmm no If Naruto made different choice he wouldn't have the prophecy. It would be different because he did something else. Prophecy- A PREDICTION of future events. Just like Naruto said to Sasuke he could of easily of been in his shoes because everybody hated him. But instead he CHOOSED not to be.
    Now, I know I'm not caught up on Naruto, but allow me to throw in my thoughts.

    The thing with destiny is that it's predetermined. So no matter what you do in life, you're constantly moving closer to what you're meant to do.

    To put it in One-Piece terms, Destiny is Raftel. No matter what path you take at the start, you'll get there eventually, there's nothing you can do about it. Every choice you make will lead you to the same place. You can't do anything to not make it there. You could be told to go right, but you choose to go left. Doesn't matter. You're still eventually going to reach your Destiny.

    Naruto could make a ton of different choices he would still end up in the same place. That's just how destiny, as a literary device, works.

    And you bring up how Naruto could have ended up like Sasuke. No he could not have. They were both alone at one point, but that's where the similarities end.

    Sasuke was alive when his whole clan was murdered. He saw the bodies. He began to hate at that moment. Naruto had no family for his entire life. He had no reason to hate.

    Sasuke was adored by everyone, he was the top of the class. Naruto was shunned by everyone, bottom of the class. He had no idea why nobody would talk to him. Hell, if I remember correctly, his fellow students didn't even know why they were supposed to shun him.
    Naruto had something to prove.

    When he was acting out, he was just trying to be noticed. All Naruto wanted was to be, allow me to be totally cheesy, loved. Sauke had no reason to want to be loved, or to love anyone. From the moment Itachi spared his life, Sasuke lived for hate, something Naruto lived for.

    As a result, there was absolutely no chance that they would have ended up the same. Naruto could not have chosen to hate everyone, because it wasn't in him. His environment growing up would only allow him to want companionship, as Sasuke's would only allow him to want revenge.

    Yes, I understand that I am applying psychology and behavior analysis to a manga, which is quite the ridiculous thing to do, but I'm serious about everything I just wrote.

    And, believe me, I really could go into more detail about this and destiny. I could start pulling out references to the classical epics, and I could talk about some heroes who tried to fight their destiny. Aeneas, anyone?

    By the way, how long do you have to have that TLC beat you in a debate in your sig?
    I mean, that happened a couple of accounts ago, no?

  10. #2470

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Quote Originally Posted by Namixluffy2 View Post
    Why are people misquoting things and making up fantasy? He even tells Neji he was a hypocrite because he was defying his own destiny http://www.mangareader.net/93-108-8/...apter-103.html of protecting the main branch. Neji choose that too. Naruto was right, people choose whatever they want to do.

    "Naruto hasn't changed his outlook on destiny. You and others have just rewritten what he originally meant in your own minds. That's where the contradiction lies. Your perception of Naruto part 1 and Naruto part 2.

    Disliking Naruto's personality, choices, and outlook are ALL perfectly acceptable things for you to do. Saying definitively that he is a hypocrite when he can clearly be shown as not being one is ridiculous on your or anyone else's part.

    How does that make him a hypocrite? His going along with what HE plans anyway doesn't mean he's accepting a "destiny he doesn't want".

    Why does he have to say this? He hasn't shown the slightest interest in the prophecy. The prophecy is just a foretelling of future events. It doesn't make them true. The prophecy is true because the actions of others (mainly Naruto) make it true. Naruto has basically just ignored the prophecy. What he hasn't ignored is the faith his parent's and Jiraiya had in him. He has CHOSEN to accept the mantle they left for him. Nothing inconsistent or hypocritical between part 1 and part 2 Naruto at all.

    Neji was wrong and Naruto is right. Naruto's life isn't about a destiny. Prophecy doesn't equal destiny. You have such a simple understanding of this topic it pains me. The prophecy doesn't make Naruto do anything. He is the one who makes the prophecy. Naruto shapes his own destiny. The prophecy is just a glimpse at the destiny HE MADE.

    You are wrong. The only thing Naruto had going for him was the kyuubi. That's the only thing that put a destiny on him. He however was left pretty much to his own. Jiraiya tried to put a destiny on Nagato and it didn't turn out that way. Why? Nagato chose differently. You are discounting the effort Naruto has made out of personal convenience. He hasn't contradicted his words. You just don't like the situation so you are attacking it."

    What does him being the 4th Hokage son mean? Minato didn't have a bloodline limit or anything. He a beast because he made it so.

    hmmm Neji was going against Destiny too. If he wasn't he wouldn't even touch Hinata. He would just sit their a forfiet "sorry i can't fight her i have to protect her" Naruto showed him he a freaking hypocrite who doesn't even follow his own BS destiny talk.

    He hasn't talked about being the savior. He's talked about accepting what his parent's and Jiraiya left to him. ACCEPTING it and trying to fulfill it. All his words are confidence he has in himself and them. Not in a destiny. He doesn't know how it will all go down. He just know what he wants to do. All the rest is garbage you and other jaded people have invented. If Naruto cared about Destiny he would of treated that old frog with respect and actually let him finish his prophecy. Instead he said " i already know i will be doing this why am i here".
    He's the "chosen one" because he's the one that succeeds. You still don't understand how a prophecy works. The prophecy was a glimpse at a future event. The prophecy wouldn't exist about him at all IF NARUTO HADN'T DONE IT"

    Naruto didn't cliam himself has a savior. Jman did and he Choosed to accept it.

    Show me the chapter Naruto says (HE) believes in Destiny. I am not talking about what his parents told him to do or anything. SHow me the chapter naruto says HE believes he will win. Why didn't Naruto just sitback and do noting after the frog told him he will be in a big fight? He is detined after all right? he didn't have to train right?


    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

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    Such optimism.

  11. #2471
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    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Hey JuJU im kaang:).

    Are we really having a dicussion over faith in naruto:(

  12. #2472
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    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    So Naruto is Harry Potter. Cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightwing
    Stay focused, cause right now you have a decision to make. Are you a man perpetually looking back at what hes lost, or a man looking forward, to what he might become?

  13. #2473
    The Nice Guy Outerspec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Quote Originally Posted by Namixluffy2 View Post
    Sighh

    Lol You don't get it. I know about different routes leading to the same place. I wasn't debating anything like that. I said the frog saw the future years all. Naruto still made those choices to shape it.

    Hmmm no If Naruto made different choice he wouldn't have the prophecy. It would be different because he did something else. Prophecy- A PREDICTION of future events. Just like Naruto said to Sasuke he could of easily of been in his shoes because everybody hated him. But instead he CHOOSED not to be.
    Okay Juju, at this point we're going to have to agree to disagree. You look at "Destined Child" and say Naruto's choices led him to be that. I look at "Destined Child" and say hmmmm...maybe it's destiny.

    And you bring up the "prediction" once again and ignore my post stating The Great Toad's prophecies/predictions are always right! No matter what choices Naruto would have made Naruto would have still ended up at the same destination The Great Toad foresaw (savior or destroyer of the Ninja World). I know Naruto could have ended up just as easily in Sasuke's shoes. Once again, the prophecy clearly states that the DESTINED CHILD would either bring salvation or destruction to the Ninja World.

    I'm done here.
    Last edited by Outerspec; July 2nd, 2011 at 06:33 PM.
    Everything's Eventual...


  14. #2474

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Namixluffy2 View Post
    Like i said i understand what your saying. I just don't agree with you. Raikage decided to let him pass after proving himself. Bee had to help convince him. Just like he did to Gaara, Raikage was also trying to kill him. How is trying to kill someone lying down and doing noting? Also they would of eventually let him out anyways because of Madara plan withh the Zetsus.
    Ugh

    You didn't listen to a word I said. I am so not in the mood for this.

    You're only paying attention to what is literally happening on panel. The implications of why these things are happening are going over your head.

    Please reread my last post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Namixluffy2 View Post
    Madara can be the main villian, but Kabuto has advance madara plan greatly and HIS Edos are giving the alliance the most trouble. If someone other then naruto kills him your point makes no sense. Kabuto is likly to betray Madara too.
    Madara IS the villain. There's no ifs about it.

    And Naruto is the most likely candidate to take Madara down given it's his damn fate as passed down by his father to do so. And I'll beat it into you why it's destiny and not choosing to do things in a little bit.

    In the meantime I have to point out that it's almost inevitable that Kabuto is going to betray Madara. The signs are there. However powerful Kabuto may be, he is still just a subordinate to Madara. A powerful one certainly, but a subordinate nonetheless. So his usefulness is very limited.

    Though being fair he is still far FAR more relevant than most of the cast that aren't descendants of the sage of six paths.

    Quote Originally Posted by Namixluffy2 View Post
    Naruto hasn't pull out one moves out of his ass. Not 1 move. Please tell me these moves he pulls out of his ass.
    So shit like mini-ransengan shurikens are perfectly okay and not coming completely out of nowhere?

    Good to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Namixluffy2 View Post
    Naruto has been the same guy who trains all the time. If naruto is not on a mission all he does is ask for training. IDK what your talking about. If naruto didn't train he wouldn't have the "destiny" would he because he would be dead.
    And once again you miss the point completely. I'm seriously getting tired of just repeating the same thing over and over to you again in slightly different wording in the vain attempts that you may eventually get it.

    There is a significant difference between just training and having the entire damn world open up for you because your parents left magic inside of you so you could counter and use the demon fox they specifically put in you to stop the world's most biggest threat.

    And yes JuJu, it's fucking destiny. It's entirely irrelevant whether Naruto chose this willingly or not. Point is it's destiny.

    Quote Originally Posted by Namixluffy2 View Post
    Obviously Naruto will have to fight Sasuke. Seriously, he is the main character and the story is being pushed foward by them. Sakura just figured out Madara plan.
    Yes compared to the the 2 main characters, nobody is more revelant. I agree.
    Good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Namixluffy2 View Post
    Like i said a million times. Naruto doesn't believe in Destiny. That page doesn't prove Naruto does. http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/39717916/9 He has faith in the job his parents left for him. He CHOOSES to do it like he said in part 1 to Neji.
    And again it doesn't matter if he himself believes in it or not. Cause he's a part of it, like it or not.

    He's been destined to do this. His choices, if he even is able to make any by this point considering Minato seems to have planned out Naruto's life down to what he has for breakfast every morning, doesn't matter. I don't think we even have evidence that Naruto is making his own choices anymore.

  15. #2475

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    I think the real problem here is what the point Kishi is trying to prove to us by twisting the original morale of the story in this manner. It is possible that the whole destiny argument can go back and forth, because destiny foretelling has always been doubtful accuracy. Destiny does not have to be told by a third person, all it really requires is a prediction of where the character will end up. For arguments sake, who's to say that the final destination of following the log is necessarily Raftel? I am imagining there is a complex puzzle beyond just following a log, but I'll end my point of view on One piece there. I am trying to focus on Naruto here.


    But my problem is why Kishi decided to change the perspective of the destiny. He drew everything up until the time skip focusing on the cruel and dark sides of destiny, and has been drawing characters like Neji, Gaara, Sasuke etc... To give us the perspectives of what destiny can do to someone, especially when they are doomed to it without any choice in the matter. Neji was doomed to his destiny as we all know, with a seal that would wipe his eyes from existence when he dies. He had no choice in the matter and while its not a pure example of destiny, destiny does tell of an event you will eventually come to.

    Come part 2, Kishi suddenly wanted to draw a classical prophecy of a savior who would bring peace to the world, and a villain that would destroy it. This is dumbing down the gray shaded story that was Naruto, into a basic battle of good vs evil (People could be white, black or shaded in gray). Now a character is either on one side, or the other. One of the few reasons I got into Naruto and enjoyed it so much, was that the story focused on the negative society that would doom others to a destiny for its own convenience, and a nobody who was doomed to such a burden wanted to prove that Destiny could be defeated. Now we have Naruto who's living according to a destiny rather than standing against it.
    If someone can come up with a proper perspective of what Kishi wants to tell with this, it would be great. I myself am pretty puzzled. The only part of naruto that is really puzzling me.

    Also: Story revelations told through single chat bubbles, I hate them:
    Spoiler:

    To the one who showed me those villagers and ninjas changing their opinion gradually, thanks. I just cant stand when important stepping stones in a story is brushed off with a single chat bubble to explain it. For Naruto, gaining the trust of the villagers was a very important step in his life. And Kishi just gives us chat bubbles rather than showing it? What a ripoff!

    Phew, got that out of my system. ^^

  16. #2476

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Okay Juju, at this point we're going to have to agree to disagree. You look at "Destined Child" and say Naruto's choices led him to be that. I look at "Destined Child" and say hmmmm...maybe it's destiny.

    And you bring up the "prediction" once again and ignore my post stating The Great Toad's prophecies/predictions are always right! No matter what choices Naruto would have made Naruto would have still ended up at the same destination The Great Toad foresaw (savior or destroyer of the Ninja World). I know Naruto could have ended up just as easily in Sasuke's shoes. Once again, the prophecy clearly states that the DESTINED CHILD would either bring salvation or destruction to the Ninja World.

    I'm done here.
    I guess we agree then. Once again Naruto shaped his own. I never ignored your post. I said the Toad sees what choices Naruto already made and if he made other choices he wouldn't have that prophecy. Naruto wouldn't be savior because he choose to do something else. Anyways I done with this topic of destiny.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by RPGJay View Post
    Spoiler:


    Ugh

    You didn't listen to a word I said. I am so not in the mood for this.

    You're only paying attention to what is literally happening on panel. The implications of why these things are happening are going over your head.

    Please reread my last post.



    Madara IS the villain. There's no ifs about it.

    And Naruto is the most likely candidate to take Madara down given it's his damn fate as passed down by his father to do so. And I'll beat it into you why it's destiny and not choosing to do things in a little bit.

    In the meantime I have to point out that it's almost inevitable that Kabuto is going to betray Madara. The signs are there. However powerful Kabuto may be, he is still just a subordinate to Madara. A powerful one certainly, but a subordinate nonetheless. So his usefulness is very limited.

    Though being fair he is still far FAR more relevant than most of the cast that aren't descendants of the sage of six paths.



    So shit like mini-ransengan shurikens are perfectly okay and not coming completely out of nowhere?

    Good to know.



    And once again you miss the point completely. I'm seriously getting tired of just repeating the same thing over and over to you again in slightly different wording in the vain attempts that you may eventually get it.

    There is a significant difference between just training and having the entire damn world open up for you because your parents left magic inside of you so you could counter and use the demon fox they specifically put in you to stop the world's most biggest threat.

    And yes JuJu, it's fucking destiny. It's entirely irrelevant whether Naruto chose this willingly or not. Point is it's destiny.



    Good.



    And again it doesn't matter if he himself believes in it or not. Cause he's a part of it, like it or not.

    He's been destined to do this. His choices, if he even is able to make any by this point considering Minato seems to have planned out Naruto's life down to what he has for breakfast every morning, doesn't matter. I don't think we even have evidence that Naruto is making his own choices anymore.
    I understand perfectly what you said. I don't agree with it. It's that simple.


    I know Madara is the villain. No Naruto is going to take him down because he is the main character in a shonen. Kabuto is the one who powered up Madara Zetsus and Eros has give the alliance the most trouble. He also captured Yamato.

    How is minishireken a ass pull? Naruto made it bigger in the pain arc, so why can't he make it smaller? What other (moveS) were you referring too? Oh that's right all Naruto did was resengan. He didn't really have new moves. He was just being creative with them. Every single forum you go too thought he pulled off new moves. Everything he did was known, he just combined the arms with them to look badass.

    If we agree that Naruto choosed it then I don't know why we are arguing. My main point is Naruto chooses.

    He got the prophecy because of his choices. ok I done let's talk about something else because we are not going anywhere.

  17. #2477
    The Nice Guy Outerspec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Quote Originally Posted by Namixluffy2 View Post
    I guess we agree then. Once again Naruto shaped his own. I never ignored your post. I said the Toad sees what choices Naruto already made and if he made other choices he wouldn't have that prophecy. Naruto wouldn't be savior because he choose to do something else. Anyways I done with this topic of destiny.
    No, we don't. It's absurd how contradictory and blind your logic is just so you can prove a point which is wrong.

    The Great Toad saw the choices Nartuo made but he didn't know if the "Destined Child" would be the savior or destroyer of the Ninja World? Oh, ok so he saw the choices Naruto made but then again...I guess he didn't see the choices Naruto made. Contradictory.

    The Great Toad did not forsee the choices the "Destined Child" would make. The Great Toad foresaw the "Destined Child" would wind up at a certain point! Destination! Ermmmm...Destiny!

    Naruto is the "Destined Child". It's like every time you see that title you cover up the word "destiny" so all you read is, Naruto is the "Destined Child". Yaaay~ Blind logic.

    He's not destined for anything he chooses!!!! Duuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrr~

    That is not how you debate Juju. That is how you get people to post pictures like this

    Spoiler:
    and videos of similar nature under your arguments because they are fucking ridiculous! This is not how you debate Juju, this is how you get people to dislike debating (and I use that term loosely) with you. It's counterproductive for you to keep coming back here and "defending" Naruto. You're not defending it! I LIKE 'Naruto' but you want to make me hate the damn thing!
    Everything's Eventual...


  18. #2478

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    No, we don't. It's absurd how contradictory and blind your logic is just so you can prove a point which is wrong.

    The Great Toad saw the choices Nartuo made but he didn't know if the "Destined Child" would be the savior or destroyer of the Ninja World? Oh, ok so he saw the choices Naruto made but then again...I guess he didn't see the choices Naruto made. Contradictory.

    The Great Toad did not forsee the choices the "Destined Child" would make. The Great Toad foresaw the "Destined Child" would wind up at a certain point! Destination! Ermmmm...Destiny!

    Naruto is the "Destined Child". It's like every time you see that title you cover up the word "destiny" so all you read is, Naruto is the "Destined Child". Yaaay~ Blind logic.

    He's not destined for anything he chooses!!!! Duuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrr~

    That is not how you debate Juju. That is how you get people to post pictures like this

    and videos of similar nature under your arguments because they are fucking ridiculous! This is not how you debate Juju, this is how you get people to dislike debating (and I use that term loosely) with you. It's counterproductive for you to keep coming back here and "defending" Naruto. You're not defending it! I LIKE 'Naruto' but you want to make me hate the damn thing!
    Sighh
    I said he saw the choice Naruto already made. He saw what Naruto already did. Naruto made the prophecy, if he didn't thenn he wouldnt be in it. I am not covering up anything. The great Toad use the word prediction too, so are you running from that word?

    You liking Naruto has noting to do with me. Calm down Internet isn't that serious dude. If you consider me a troll and a "Retard"
    at arguing block me.

    Like I said before Naruto made this prophecy happen. You have no proof of if Naruto took another path in his life he would still be end up the same place.

  19. #2479
    Finally came back around Akumu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    This whole debate is sort of pointless because of what destiny is.

    Destiny is where you arrive in the end. No matter what happens, it's your destiny. You end up working in a cubicle till the day you die? That's your destiny.

    Think about it. Destiny = destination. That's all destiny is.

    Where questions arise is when pre-determination is involved. The idea that no matter what you do, no matter what choices you make, your fate has already been determined. That the journey itself doesn't matter, only the destination. This is what everybody that's not JuJu seems to be saying.

    JuJu is arguing that Naruto's choices are what led him to his, that Naruto chose where he would end up.

    Guess what? You're both right! Depending on how you look at destiny that is. So his fate has been pre-determined? That doesn't make his choices any less significant. Just because he may end up in the same place no matter what he does, every path to that destiny is going to be completely unique.

    So while Naruto's fate may have been decided since birth, his choices are what have brought him to where he is.

    Is this making sense? I know it's by no means a simple topic, I mean I spent a whole semester in a class that was solely devoted to this topic, and by the end we were still pretty much where we began, everybody split with their own ideas of how destiny works. What I've been attempting to say in this post is the closest thing to a consensus we could reach.

    Allow me to put this in the simplest terms I can by revisiting an old example.

    Say your lifespan is the grandline. Your destiny is raftel. No matter what, that is where you're going to end up. However there are many different paths you can take to get there. Where you go and what you do is solely under your control, and each path is going to offer a unique experience, and have different consequences. For example, in one path Alabasta is saved, in all the others, it falls. So while you might always end up in the same place, the world will always be different.

    This of course is just a combination of the two main ideas of what destiny is, but in the end I guess it really boils down to life experiences, thus making this entire conversation, and my post, moot.

    I still don't feel as if I'm getting my point across so I'll try to say this as simple as possible:

    TL;DR Everyone's right, everyone's wrong. It just depends on your outlook on life.

  20. #2480
    The Nice Guy Outerspec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Quote Originally Posted by Namixluffy2 View Post
    Sighh
    I said he saw the choice Naruto already made. He saw what Naruto already did. Naruto made the prophecy, if he didn't thenn he wouldnt be in it. I am not covering up anything. The great Toad use the word prediction too, so are you running from that word?

    You liking Naruto has noting to do with me. Calm down Internet isn't that serious dude. If you consider me a troll and a "Retard"
    at arguing block me.

    Like I said before Naruto made this prophecy happen. You have no proof of if Naruto took another path in his life he would still be end up the same place.


    ----------------------------------------------

    Anyway, I hope the anime takes liberty with this war and covers the battles Kishi skipped. Anything having to do with Rock Lee and Kakashi's rampage for example.
    Everything's Eventual...


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