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Thread: Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation

  1. #2441

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Quote Originally Posted by pyromonki View Post
    It's not whether or not Naruto believes in destiny, it's that it is his destiny. It makes the first whole half a joke. Remember that whole argument with Neji? First it made it seem like Neji was wrong, but Rock Lee still hasn't beaten him in a fight. But guess who has? Naruto. Whose now not the ninja failure, but the chosen one.

    So doesn't that mean Neji was right?

    If Kishi had went without using those words in this series, it would've been all the better. They don't belong in any series, unless you're going to pull that twist that Star Wars did with Anakin, where even though he helped kill everybody, he still fulfilled his prophecy and stopped Palpatine.

    To top it all off, now he's bloodline kid on top of all of that. Also something that wasn't necessary, I would've preferred if he was just some regular joe schmuck with the nine tails in him. He already had one perk, he didn't need anymore. Not if you wanted to keep the hard work theme going, which Kishimoto obviously did not.
    Once again Naruto said people get to choose their Destiny. Hmm Would their even be a future telling about Naruto if he didn't work hard? I new Naruto wasn't a regular Joe since part 1. They were throwing hints that Minato was his father all over the place. Lee could surpass Neji. Gai is the 3rd strongest person in the village where their are plenty of Hyuugas. Lee was just not strong enough then and when he did get strong enough(Gates) He never got to fight Neji.

  2. #2442

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Naruto said destiny doesn't matter because you get to choose your own destiny. If hardwork doesn't matter why didn't naruto just sit down and do noting in part 2 and not train. Wait for the war and kill Sasuke/Madara oh thats right he can't because he would be dead from not training.
    Part 1 was built around that destiny was cold and cruel, and only doomed those who were bound to it into living hellish lives. We have Neji, who is destined to be a sacrifical pawn for his clan with that seal on his forehead. He takes it out on others, blaming destiny.
    Rock Lee was the opposite. He was unbound by any destiny, but had to do everything with hard work. Part 1 was essentially Hard work against Destiny. That early on atleast I thought Naruto was a kid picked by chance, even if there were qualities needed to have the Kyuubi sealed within.

    Here are other points that make much less sense, given Kishi's recent updates in regards to the past story.
    1. If the father was the 4th Hokage, how come Naruto was living in a corner of the village, hated by everyone? The Birth only needed to be kept secret until the ritual was over. But none the less, only select few know about the kid, Naruto had to live a hellish life because of the Kyuubi and destiny his father imposed upon him.
    2. If hard work really is what pays off, then what has indeed happened with the effort and struggles we used to see in it? We keep hearing about Naruto blabbering about Destiny, even though he started out as a no-name kid with "missing or dead parents", but now that its updated that his parents gave him the destiny to defeat Madara, his entire life up until then has been meaningless.
    Why? Because he was struggling to be approved by everyone when he already was the 4th hokages kid, who also happened to be given the destiny to save the world. Im not saying his hard work became obsolete, but the meaning behind it was killed! It died! Kishi threw Narutos primary goal out the window with the destiny slapped onto him. Recognition through hard work. Not required anymore, you have a destiny to fulfill!
    Naruto: Emh, any destiny we have seen in this story has been entirely cruel and empty-
    Minato: Bullshit, you are destined for greatness. Save the world!... from someone I didn't beat for any weird plot reason.
    ^
    Doesnt that make Minato rather vengeful if he wants to raise his kid to defeat someone he never defeated? Normally this would be portrayed as dark and cruel but in Naruto logic, its admirable and respectful. Yeah, I bet Neji would rejoice at his destiny had it been words like that wouldn't he?

    Like i said a million times. Naruto doesn't believe in Destiny. That page doesn't prove Naruto does. http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/39717916/9 He has faith in the job his parents left for him. He CHOOSES to do it like he said in part 1 to Neji.
    Claiming himself to be the savior does not sound all to different from claiming it is his destiny.

    Meh, I read Naruto for the laughs now, so I dont hate these twists. I just enjoy seeing the summary fade out with each new chapter about this destiny stuff.
    Not that Naruto as a manga was ever accurate to begin with, I mean: Colorfully clothed ninjas with magic energy plus flashy techinques talking about peace and justice and saving the world? Yeah... x)

  3. #2443

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterion View Post
    Part 1 was built around that destiny was cold and cruel, and only doomed those who were bound to it into living hellish lives. We have Neji, who is destined to be a sacrifical pawn for his clan with that seal on his forehead. He takes it out on others, blaming destiny.
    Rock Lee was the opposite. He was unbound by any destiny, but had to do everything with hard work. Part 1 was essentially Hard work against Destiny. That early on atleast I thought Naruto was a kid picked by chance, even if there were qualities needed to have the Kyuubi sealed within.

    Here are other points that make much less sense, given Kishi's recent updates in regards to the past story.
    1. If the father was the 4th Hokage, how come Naruto was living in a corner of the village, hated by everyone? The Birth only needed to be kept secret until the ritual was over. But none the less, only select few know about the kid, Naruto had to live a hellish life because of the Kyuubi and destiny his father imposed upon him.
    2. If hard work really is what pays off, then what has indeed happened with the effort and struggles we used to see in it? We keep hearing about Naruto blabbering about Destiny, even though he started out as a no-name kid with "missing or dead parents", but now that its updated that his parents gave him the destiny to defeat Madara, his entire life up until then has been meaningless.
    Why? Because he was struggling to be approved by everyone when he already was the 4th hokages kid, who also happened to be given the destiny to save the world. Im not saying his hard work became obsolete, but the meaning behind it was killed! It died! Kishi threw Narutos primary goal out the window with the destiny slapped onto him. Recognition through hard work. Not required anymore, you have a destiny to fulfill!
    Naruto: Emh, any destiny we have seen in this story has been entirely cruel and empty-
    Minato: Bullshit, you are destined for greatness. Save the world!... from someone I didn't beat for any weird plot reason.
    ^
    Doesnt that make Minato rather vengeful if he wants to raise his kid to defeat someone he never defeated? Normally this would be portrayed as dark and cruel but in Naruto logic, its admirable and respectful. Yeah, I bet Neji would rejoice at his destiny had it been words like that wouldn't he?


    Claiming himself to be the savior does not sound all to different from claiming it is his destiny.

    Meh, I read Naruto for the laughs now, so I dont hate these twists. I just enjoy seeing the summary fade out with each new chapter about this destiny stuff.
    Not that Naruto as a manga was ever accurate to begin with, I mean: Colorfully clothed ninjas with magic energy plus flashy techinques talking about peace and justice and saving the world? Yeah... x)
    Why are people misquoting things and making up fantasy? He even tells Neji he was a hypocrite because he was defying his own destiny http://www.mangareader.net/93-108-8/...apter-103.html of protecting the main branch. Neji choose that too. Naruto was right, people choose whatever they want to do.

    "Naruto hasn't changed his outlook on destiny. You and others have just rewritten what he originally meant in your own minds. That's where the contradiction lies. Your perception of Naruto part 1 and Naruto part 2.

    Disliking Naruto's personality, choices, and outlook are ALL perfectly acceptable things for you to do. Saying definitively that he is a hypocrite when he can clearly be shown as not being one is ridiculous on your or anyone else's part.

    How does that make him a hypocrite? His going along with what HE plans anyway doesn't mean he's accepting a "destiny he doesn't want".

    Why does he have to say this? He hasn't shown the slightest interest in the prophecy. The prophecy is just a foretelling of future events. It doesn't make them true. The prophecy is true because the actions of others (mainly Naruto) make it true. Naruto has basically just ignored the prophecy. What he hasn't ignored is the faith his parent's and Jiraiya had in him. He has CHOSEN to accept the mantle they left for him. Nothing inconsistent or hypocritical between part 1 and part 2 Naruto at all.

    Neji was wrong and Naruto is right. Naruto's life isn't about a destiny. Prophecy doesn't equal destiny. You have such a simple understanding of this topic it pains me. The prophecy doesn't make Naruto do anything. He is the one who makes the prophecy. Naruto shapes his own destiny. The prophecy is just a glimpse at the destiny HE MADE.

    You are wrong. The only thing Naruto had going for him was the kyuubi. That's the only thing that put a destiny on him. He however was left pretty much to his own. Jiraiya tried to put a destiny on Nagato and it didn't turn out that way. Why? Nagato chose differently. You are discounting the effort Naruto has made out of personal convenience. He hasn't contradicted his words. You just don't like the situation so you are attacking it."

    What does him being the 4th Hokage son mean? Minato didn't have a bloodline limit or anything. He a beast because he made it so.

    hmmm Neji was going against Destiny too. If he wasn't he wouldn't even touch Hinata. He would just sit their a forfiet "sorry i can't fight her i have to protect her" Naruto showed him he a freaking hypocrite who doesn't even follow his own BS destiny talk.

    He hasn't talked about being the savior. He's talked about accepting what his parent's and Jiraiya left to him. ACCEPTING it and trying to fulfill it. All his words are confidence he has in himself and them. Not in a destiny. He doesn't know how it will all go down. He just know what he wants to do. All the rest is garbage you and other jaded people have invented. If Naruto cared about Destiny he would of treated that old frog with respect and actually let him finish his prophecy. Instead he said " i already know i will be doing this why am i here".
    He's the "chosen one" because he's the one that succeeds. You still don't understand how a prophecy works. The prophecy was a glimpse at a future event. The prophecy wouldn't exist about him at all IF NARUTO HADN'T DONE IT"

    Naruto didn't cliam himself has a savior. Jman did and he Choosed to accept it.

    Show me the chapter Naruto says (HE) believes in Destiny. I am not talking about what his parents told him to do or anything. SHow me the chapter naruto says HE believes he will win. Why didn't Naruto just sitback and do noting after the frog told him he will be in a big fight? He is detined after all right? he didn't have to train right?
    Last edited by Namixluffy2; July 1st, 2011 at 12:43 PM.

  4. #2444
    The Nice Guy Outerspec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Quote Originally Posted by Namixluffy2 View Post
    Why are people misquoting things and making up fantasy? He even tells Neji he was a hypocrite because he was defying his own destiny http://www.mangareader.net/93-108-8/...apter-103.html of protecting the main branch. Neji choose that too. Naruto was right, people choose whatever they want to do.

    "Naruto hasn't changed his outlook on destiny. You and others have just rewritten what he originally meant in your own minds. That's where the contradiction lies. Your perception of Naruto part 1 and Naruto part 2.

    Disliking Naruto's personality, choices, and outlook are ALL perfectly acceptable things for you to do. Saying definitively that he is a hypocrite when he can clearly be shown as not being one is ridiculous on your or anyone else's part.

    How does that make him a hypocrite? His going along with what HE plans anyway doesn't mean he's accepting a "destiny he doesn't want".

    Why does he have to say this? He hasn't shown the slightest interest in the prophecy. The prophecy is just a foretelling of future events. It doesn't make them true. The prophecy is true because the actions of others (mainly Naruto) make it true. Naruto has basically just ignored the prophecy. What he hasn't ignored is the faith his parent's and Jiraiya had in him. He has CHOSEN to accept the mantle they left for him. Nothing inconsistent or hypocritical between part 1 and part 2 Naruto at all.

    Neji was wrong and Naruto is right. Naruto's life isn't about a destiny. Prophecy doesn't equal destiny. You have such a simple understanding of this topic it pains me. The prophecy doesn't make Naruto do anything. He is the one who makes the prophecy. Naruto shapes his own destiny. The prophecy is just a glimpse at the destiny HE MADE.

    You are wrong. The only thing Naruto had going for him was the kyuubi. That's the only thing that put a destiny on him. He however was left pretty much to his own. Jiraiya tried to put a destiny on Nagato and it didn't turn out that way. Why? Nagato chose differently. You are discounting the effort Naruto has made out of personal convenience. He hasn't contradicted his words. You just don't like the situation so you are attacking it."

    What does him being the 4th Hokage son mean? Minato didn't have a bloodline limit or anything. He a beast because he made it so.

    hmmm Neji was going against Destiny too. If he wasn't he wouldn't even touch Hinata. He would just sit their a forfiet "sorry i can't fight her i have to protect her" Naruto showed him he a freaking hypocrite who doesn't even follow his own BS destiny talk.

    He hasn't talked about being the savior. He's talked about accepting what his parent's and Jiraiya left to him. ACCEPTING it and trying to fulfill it. All his words are confidence he has in himself and them. Not in a destiny. He doesn't know how it will all go down. He just know what he wants to do. All the rest is garbage you and other jaded people have invented. If Naruto cared about Destiny he would of treated that old frog with respect and actually let him finish his prophecy. Instead he said " i already know i will be doing this why am i here".
    He's the "chosen one" because he's the one that succeeds. You still don't understand how a prophecy works. The prophecy was a glimpse at a future event. The prophecy wouldn't exist about him at all IF NARUTO HADN'T DONE IT"

    Naruto didn't cliam himself has a savior. Jman did and he Choosed to accept it.

    Show me the chapter Naruto says (HE) believes in Destiny. I am not talking about what his parents told him to do or anything. SHow me the chapter naruto says HE believes he will win. Why didn't Naruto just sitback and do noting after the frog told him he will be in a big fight? He is detined after all right? he didn't have to train right?
    I'm going to refer you to my previous post.

    http://www.apforums.net/showthread.p...=1#post2285545

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Do you honestly think Naruto would "choose" not to fight Sasuke? Not to try and save Sasuke? It's hard-wired in his brain and beliefs to confront Sasuke whenever possible. Oh, and it's also his destiny as a descendant of the Senju clan to confront a descendant of the Uchiha clan! Those two (Naruto and Sasuke) represent those clans the best for this generation. Lol, yeah Naruto can just as well choose not to save the world or turn his back on Sasuke. Yeah sure, he could "choose" that and your point about Naruto not having to follow his destiny would be proven very well. Honestly though, what are the chances of him taking that course of action? He's destined to save the world. He's destined to fight Sasuke, the current generation's best representative of the Uchiah Clan. Naruto will do both of these things because he chooses to, sure. Naruto will do both of these things because he's Naruto and he's the Destined Child, definitely. A prophecy foretold before he was even born and events set in motion.
    Last edited by Outerspec; July 1st, 2011 at 01:21 PM.
    Everything's Eventual...


  5. #2445

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    For a moment there I thought Juju's grammar and spelling had miraculously improved, and he'd learned how to properly defend a point. As if he'd gone into serious mode or something.

    Then I realized he was just quoting things badly.
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  6. #2446

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Quote Originally Posted by Namixluffy2 View Post
    Once again Naruto said people get to choose their Destiny. Hmm Would their even be a future telling about Naruto if he didn't work hard? I new Naruto wasn't a regular Joe since part 1. They were throwing hints that Minato was his father all over the place. Lee could surpass Neji. Gai is the 3rd strongest person in the village where their are plenty of Hyuugas. Lee was just not strong enough then and when he did get strong enough(Gates) He never got to fight Neji.
    I said I would've preferred if he was a regular joe. Not that he was. I'm saying the fox was enough as it was. When did they say Gai was the 3rd strongest person in the village?
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  7. #2447
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    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    I always knew Juju is the one destined to bring this thread back to life.

  8. #2448
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    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Might want to delete two of those three posts you made Outerspec. And one of those two posts you made Robby. Seeing as how they're copies of each other.

    Anyway Mysterion brings up a good point. Why was Naruto discriminated against when he was the son of the greatest ninja who ever lived? Couldn't the Third Hokage do anything about it? It's just annoying because probably the worst part of Naruto is when Kishimoto screws around with what was good about the series in the beginning. It just would have been nice if the Third (before he died) said anything like "I wish I could've been there for that boy. I wish I could've made sure he grew up with the love and affection he deserved. But a Hokage's life is time consuming." Something along those lines would be good. As far as I know there wasn't ever any line like that, though if someone could find me one it would be helpful.

    I'm not even really talking about that whole "It's an honor" thing that came around with Kushina. I'm talking about the early parts of the series. It's a little weak that the Third couldn't have told people to back off on Naruto or found someone who could be there for him. I loved the idea of Naruto being the kid who everyone hated who would rise beyond his background and become a great ninja. That's what was appealing about the series in the beginning. It just feels a little contrived that he's the son of the village's hero and all of the Konoha's highest ranked shinobi know this, and they can't do anything to prevent people from discriminating against him. I don't know, can anyone find a decent explanation of why the Third let Naruto be essentially ostracized by most of the adults and children in the village? Preferably not Juju.
    My Hero Academia is my favorite manga series right now. At least so long as the high of its greatness remains. United States of Smash.

  9. #2449

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    I'm going to refer you to my previous post.

    http://www.apforums.net/showthread.p...=1#post2285545

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Do you honestly think Naruto would "choose" not to fight Sasuke? Not to try and save Sasuke? It's hard-wired in his brain and beliefs to confront Sasuke whenever possible. Oh, and it's also his destiny as a descendant of the Senju clan to confront a descendant of the Uchiha clan! Those two (Naruto and Sasuke) represent those clans the best for this generation. Lol, yeah Naruto can just as well choose not to save the world or turn his back on Sasuke. Yeah sure, he could "choose" that and your point about Naruto not having to follow his destiny would be proven very well. Honestly though, what are the chances of him taking that course of action? He's destined to save the world. He's destined to fight Sasuke, the current generation's best representative of the Uchiah Clan. Naruto will do both of these things because he chooses to, sure. Naruto will do both of these things because he's Naruto and he's the Destined Child, definitely. A prophecy foretold before he was even born and events set in motion.
    Why would Naruto Choose not to confront Sasuke?? SO your saying naruto should give up on something he said he won't. hmm Naruto didn't even know Sasuke had the sharingan when they first met. He only wanted to beat him because of girls and to become strong. Naruto isn't hardwire to fight any Uchia. Madara is butthurt because he got pwned by the 1st so he saves Sasuke life and turns him against Naruto. I guess Lee is hardwired to fight Neji?? What are you even talking about? Why would Naruto Choose not to save the world. Naruto is the reason their is a destiny in the first place because he made it.

  10. #2450
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    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Theme of part 1: Anyone can strive for and achieve greatness regardless of heritage, class, background, etc.

    Theme of part 2: Eugenics is the answer

  11. #2451

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Quote Originally Posted by Kareem Said View Post
    Might want to delete two of those three posts you made Outerspec. And one of those two posts you made Robby. Seeing as how they're copies of each other.

    Anyway Mysterion brings up a good point. Why was Naruto discriminated against when he was the son of the greatest ninja who ever lived? Couldn't the Third Hokage do anything about it? It's just annoying because probably the worst part of Naruto is when Kishimoto screws around with what was good about the series in the beginning. It just would have been nice if the Third (before he died) said anything like "I wish I could've been there for that boy. I wish I could've made sure he grew up with the love and affection he deserved. But a Hokage's life is time consuming." Something along those lines would be good. As far as I know there wasn't ever any line like that, though if someone could find me one it would be helpful.

    I'm not even really talking about that whole "It's an honor" thing that came around with Kushina. I'm talking about the early parts of the series. It's a little weak that the Third couldn't have told people to back off on Naruto or found someone who could be there for him. I loved the idea of Naruto being the kid who everyone hated who would rise beyond his background and become a great ninja. That's what was appealing about the series in the beginning. It just feels a little contrived that he's the son of the village's hero and all of the Konoha's highest ranked shinobi know this, and they can't do anything to prevent people from discriminating against him. I don't know, can anyone find a decent explanation of why the Third let Naruto be essentially ostracized by most of the adults and children in the village? Preferably not Juju.
    The 3rd Hokage is a dumbass its that simple. He choosed this way to handle the Naruto situation, The Cloud who don't believe in Will of fire or other BS handled it different. They also didn't let a known pedophile go because he is his student. I think most of the Hokages are stupid. The 2nd Hokage secretly spied on uchia(We know how that turned out) 3rd failed to stop a freaking genocide. The 3rd was a dummy actually agree with you.

  12. #2452

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    So we are going to discuss random stupidity details? Sounds like actual fun *no sarcasm*, so i'll bring about another point besides the whole Naruto being bullied despite all his traits we just got to know even if that is like hiding the kings son in the bully town for 15 years, Tell everyone a specific thing they cant tell Naruto and not doing squat about it thereafter... Wait a second. Just wait a single second. It just came to mind.

    How did the villagers find out that Naruto had the Kyuubi inside of him in the first place?
    Lets recap: We have the Kyuubi attacking the village, controlled by madara, okay? Minato seals him with his wife into their child, naruto. Thus entrusting the Naruto to the care of the village. What the Hokage did was force a rule on the entire village to not tell Naruto this one thing, that the Fox was inside of him. But wait just a second, they were allowed to discriminate against him, and know the truth about him? If this mr.3rd Hokage wanted to keep things secret in the first place, why let the villagers know the Fox was inside of him? I know; he's a sadist who hated his students student, and faked out some lame protection while telling everyone. Way to go Sarutobi.
    EDIT: (I guess the same can be said for anyone responsible for their Jinchuuriki in other villages who has had to live a hellish life).

    Another thing that came to my mind as I read this, are the consequenses of Naruto being bullied and discriminated against. We all know that once a Jinchuuriki is unveiled, they are treated with absolute hatred. Another thing we got to learn with Bee's childhood, is that they need love and affection. And I bet you know what happens when a Jinchuuriki becomes unstable from all the hatred (Gaara, much?).
    Naruto's childhood never had to be such a hell if the 3rd would have kept his mouth shut about the Kyuubi inside Naruto from the very start?
    So the actual villain here is Sarutobi himself, he put Naruto into a hell of discrimination knowingly! And dont you tell me it wasnt him, the whole birth ritual was a top secret rite to begin with, that only top members knew. >.>

    On a funny matter though, it does mean the Hokages were pretty self-centered douchebags. And with it, i'd like to suggest we look into another thing.
    If Naruto was hated in part 1, and loved in part 2 (pain). Where did Naruto go from being hated... to being not so hated? Seriously, I dont recall him proving anything to the villagers at all, infact they were all likely dead when he fought Nagato (Pain). And all of a sudden he goes from being the worst hated child in the village, to the most loved one. In a single hour. Plot-guided people, or simply assholes kissing his ass so he'll ignore his life until then? Guess we'll never get anything of this put into perspective, since the villagers are paper thin substance in the plot anyway. Its not like Naruto was trying to get their approval or anything, it was just Sasuke he wanted to be friends with. Screw the villagers. x)

  13. #2453
    The Nice Guy Outerspec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Quote Originally Posted by Namixluffy2 View Post
    Why would Naruto Choose not to confront Sasuke??
    Exactly. He won't make another choice. Basically the only choice Naruto has is the path of destiny.

    SO your saying naruto should give up on something he said he won't.
    Nope, I'm saying Naruto choosing to follow his destiny is destiny working out just the way its been planned from the very beginning.

    Spoiler:
    hmm Naruto didn't even know Sasuke had the sharingan when they first met.
    I have no idea what this has to do with anything. Are you trying to tell me Naruto didn't know Sasuke was a Uchiha when they first met? His name is Uchiha Sasuke. What is the point of you telling me Naruto didn't know Sasuke had the Sharingan, really? Does it matter if Naruto didn't know about his destiny when he's following it anyway? Does it matter that he didn't know about the long time rivalry between the Senju and Uchiha when he....ummm....struck up a rivalry with a Uchiha anyway?

    He only wanted to beat him because of girls and to become strong. Naruto isn't hardwire to fight any Uchia.
    So? Who cares how their rivalry started? Who said Naruto is hard-wired to fight any Uchiha? I said, "Do you honestly think Naruto would "choose" not to fight Sasuke? Not to try and save Sasuke? It's hard-wired in his brain and beliefs to confront Sasuke whenever possible." Is this not true? Every time Naruto sees Sasuke or gets any hint to his whereabouts he's off like a racehorse to find him.

    Madara is butthurt because he got pwned by the 1st so he saves Sasuke life and turns him against Naruto. I guess Lee is hardwired to fight Neji?? What are you even talking about?
    There is no rivalry spanning centuries going on between The Hyuuga Clan and whatever clan Rock Lee is from (if he's even from a clan). Oh, but there is a rivalry going on between the descendants of Uchiha and Senju. Is it just a coincidence that Naruto and Sasuke became immediate rivals like their ancestors? It's just a coincidence that Naruto and Sasuke fought at the Valley of End where Uchiha Madra and Hashirama fought? Is it just coincidence that Sasuke embodies the hate of the Uchiha and Naruto embodies the fiery will of the Senju so well!? That these 2 should develop a rivalry and confront each other...coincidence not fate!!!

    Spoiler:
    Lol, really? Coincidence is a persistent sonofabitch!

    Spoiler:
    This is what I'm talking about! This clash between Naruto and Sasuke is fate! Madara didn't turn Sasuke against Naruto. Those two were rivals long before either of them knew who he was. There confrontation is a fate Naruto has been walking headlong into ever since he met Sasuke. Probably even before.

    Why would Naruto Choose not to save the world. Naruto is the reason their is a destiny in the first place because he made it.
    Wait, back up. Naruto wasn't even born yet when the Great Toad prophesied he'd be the Destined Child to save the world. Now explain to me how an unborn child can create a destiny. You know, before he was born...

    Spoiler:
    And it turned out Naruto and Nagato were the Destined Child together. Now Nagato is dead and all who's left to bring peace to the Ninja World (ridiculous) is Naruto!

    The fact is Naruto is following a destiny he basically has no option to ignore. That's the thing about destiny. It's nearly impossible to get away from it and no matter how much Naruto used to talk about changing destiny or...destiny isn't set in stone. Here is Naruto now following a set path that has been laid out for him many years before. So now I repeat.

    "The change of tone from Part 1 to Part 2 is what I think Jay is trying to get at.

    A beloved theme of Part 1 was screw Destiny or even change it.

    The entire Part 2's theme IS Destiny."
    Everything's Eventual...


  14. #2454

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterion View Post
    So we are going to discuss random stupidity details? Sounds like actual fun *no sarcasm*, so i'll bring about another point besides the whole Naruto being bullied despite all his traits we just got to know even if that is like hiding the kings son in the bully town for 15 years, Tell everyone a specific thing they cant tell Naruto and not doing squat about it thereafter... Wait a second. Just wait a single second. It just came to mind.

    How did the villagers find out that Naruto had the Kyuubi inside of him in the first place?
    Lets recap: We have the Kyuubi attacking the village, controlled by madara, okay? Minato seals him with his wife into their child, naruto. Thus entrusting the Naruto to the care of the village. What the Hokage did was force a rule on the entire village to not tell Naruto this one thing, that the Fox was inside of him. But wait just a second, they were allowed to discriminate against him, and know the truth about him? If this mr.3rd Hokage wanted to keep things secret in the first place, why let the villagers know the Fox was inside of him? I know; he's a sadist who hated his students student, and faked out some lame protection while telling everyone. Way to go Sarutobi.
    EDIT: (I guess the same can be said for anyone responsible for their Jinchuuriki in other villages who has had to live a hellish life).

    Another thing that came to my mind as I read this, are the consequenses of Naruto being bullied and discriminated against. We all know that once a Jinchuuriki is unveiled, they are treated with absolute hatred. Another thing we got to learn with Bee's childhood, is that they need love and affection. And I bet you know what happens when a Jinchuuriki becomes unstable from all the hatred (Gaara, much?).
    Naruto's childhood never had to be such a hell if the 3rd would have kept his mouth shut about the Kyuubi inside Naruto from the very start?
    So the actual villain here is Sarutobi himself, he put Naruto into a hell of discrimination knowingly! And dont you tell me it wasnt him, the whole birth ritual was a top secret rite to begin with, that only top members knew. >.>

    On a funny matter though, it does mean the Hokages were pretty self-centered douchebags. And with it, i'd like to suggest we look into another thing.
    If Naruto was hated in part 1, and loved in part 2 (pain). Where did Naruto go from being hated... to being not so hated? Seriously, I dont recall him proving anything to the villagers at all, infact they were all likely dead when he fought Nagato (Pain). And all of a sudden he goes from being the worst hated child in the village, to the most loved one. In a single hour. Plot-guided people, or simply assholes kissing his ass so he'll ignore his life until then? Guess we'll never get anything of this put into perspective, since the villagers are paper thin substance in the plot anyway. Its not like Naruto was trying to get their approval or anything, it was just Sasuke he wanted to be friends with. Screw the villagers. x)
    I agree with you the 3rd is a dumbass. The Cloud is the only one who did the right thing. They protected and trained their Beast. The 3rd didn't make anything really for Naruto.

    To be fair the 3rd wasn't the only one present for Naruto sealing. We also don't know if he made these rules after the bullying occurred through. The villagers feared he couldn't control him. What does the 4th being a hero means? This is how people normally react to things they fear. Also you didn't answer anything in my last post about destiny.

  15. #2455

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    To not be fair, the 3rd was the highest authority and could easily have handled any leak. The only one who comes to mind here that would in any regard put Naruto's life into hell is Danzo. But even that makes no sense, why would he? His greatest concern was the village and himself, handling the shady deals and making sure some stuff remains hidden. Danzo was infact one of the more logical characters in the village. And besides, we can safely assume only the elders and hokages were aware of this birth ritual because it would otherwise attract way to much attention. And because we have no source on whether someone did leak it or not, the whole event falls on the 3rds shoulders in the end since he was practically responsible for all that being the higher authority. He should have had no difficulty at all to cover most information of it, even if leaked. It makes the whole idea of threatening punishment onto the villagers to protect Naruto pointless.

    And in regards to the destiny question you asked me, I'd love to answer it. I just want to clear up what destiny is, okay (Taken from Wikipedia)
    Destiny refers to a predetermined course of events.. It may be conceived as a predetermined future, whether in general or of an individual. It is a concept based on the belief that there is a fixed natural order to the cosmos.
    So destiny, is an event foretold that is predicted, not necessarily absolute. But it does mean a predicted resolution, like if a Hyuuga branch member died, the seal would act as a counter to possible problems (destined event) and remove the eyes from existence.

    In this regard, its not a forced course of action a person has to abide by, it is simply something they are predicted to be fulfilling eventually. Naruto is destined to fight sasuke, as in predicted he will be. And he's lived true to that. He's raced off whenever a trail of sasuke appears (Thanks to post above), and now he's been destined to save the world. Thus, he aspires to end the war and fulfilling that too.
    Destiny does not force Naruto or anyone to take on a whole different attitude, it predicts what he will eventually do. The reason part 1 was largely about going against destiny with hard work, was because we saw characters struggling against their predicted destinies: Neji, Lee, Naruto, Gaara, Sasuke and hence forth.
    Neji defied his destiny to be a sacrificial pawn by aggressing against the head clan that put him in that position from birth, Naruto wanted to attain the rank of Hokage to stop the discrimination he was going through, Lee wanted to defeat Neji to prove that Hard work does pay off in the end, Gaara because he wanted a reason for him to exist beyond being a tool and Sasuke... well you know.

    If this does not answer your question, then I have not much I can say. I dont know what Destiny is if it isnt what I just detailed above, because Naruto was given these predicted destinies all of a sudden and everyone came to rely on him to fulfill them.

  16. #2456
    The Nice Guy Outerspec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Errrmmmm.....no people. The 3rd Hokage was just fulfilling Minato's wishes for his son.

    Spoiler:


    Spoiler:



    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterion View Post
    On a funny matter though, it does mean the Hokages were pretty self-centered douchebags. And with it, i'd like to suggest we look into another thing.
    If Naruto was hated in part 1, and loved in part 2 (pain). Where did Naruto go from being hated... to being not so hated? Seriously, I dont recall him proving anything to the villagers at all, infact they were all likely dead when he fought Nagato (Pain). And all of a sudden he goes from being the worst hated child in the village, to the most loved one. In a single hour. Plot-guided people, or simply assholes kissing his ass so he'll ignore his life until then? Guess we'll never get anything of this put into perspective, since the villagers are paper thin substance in the plot anyway. Its not like Naruto was trying to get their approval or anything, it was just Sasuke he wanted to be friends with. Screw the villagers. x)

    You can start here.

    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v46/c426/13.html
    Everything's Eventual...


  17. #2457

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Errrmmmm.....no people. The 3rd Hokage was just fulfilling Minato's wishes for his son.





    --- Update From New Post Merge ---




    You can start here.

    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v46/c426/13.html
    I was just looking for that page of the 3rd. I was skimming through chapters lol, but the where I think he messed up was telling the villagers in the first place. He could of kept it to himself. Your point makes more sense through. Minato didn't want it to be a secret glad you cleared that up here(You guys got your answer on the 3rd thanks outspec. You find scans quick ). The 3rd is still a dumbass even without that failure. Oro situation and not stopping a genocide. I know he tried, but he still failed. Also Outspeec I will address your other post

    Naruto chooses to follow Sasuke and your example about him going wherever Sasuke is doesn't make sense. Naruto would do the same for everyone, He went apeshit for Gaara(What destiny do they share). Naruto does the something if his friends are in danger. He goes apeshit for them until he knocks some sense into them/saves them. Gaara being captured he wasn't thinking of anything else. Even turning 3-4tails for a guy who tried to kill him. If Gaara was still captured at this very moment Naruto would still be going after him. He follows Sasuke because he being himself. Uchia have noting to do with it. Naruto going back on his word to him means he doesn't deserve to be Hokage.


    You seem not to understand me here. Their is only a prophecy because Naruto made it that way. The Toad can tell the future. Wats your point? He Made it that way. Their wouldn't have been a prophecy if Naruto didn't make it that way. He still choose it. Just read my previous post. Why didn't Nagato fulfil his destiny then? I thought he was destined. Didn't the frog also say one of his students would destroy the world. Since Nagato is dead doesn't that mean Naruto has the chance to destroy the earth. Which means its a choice.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Errrmmmm.....no people. The 3rd Hokage was just fulfilling Minato's wishes for his son.





    --- Update From New Post Merge ---




    You can start here.

    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v46/c426/13.html
    Seriously do you save all these pages and name them by what's in it or do you just remember. Again good find, I was looking for that too.

  18. #2458

    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    It's really sad that most of these panels are retconning, cause I don't remember anyone making those kind of comments during the first part of the manga.

  19. #2459
    Finally came back around Akumu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Quote Originally Posted by Hekti View Post
    Well I hope it will end soon ...but I kinda doubt it ... :/
    That's gives me hope...kind of

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbyBevard View Post
    If anything its only gotten worse.
    That's...inspiring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobodyman View Post
    To give you a quick recap:

    *To the tune of "We Didn't Start the Fire"*
    Seven swordsmen, Zabuza, Haku and Kakashi yah, Darui and Samui, Magic suction gourd-y thing,
    Fight with Ino-Shika-Cho, Mifune and Hanzou, Giant statue, big surprise, 40,000 dead guys.
    Creepy weird confession from, a guy who likes Sakura. Guys that pee, gotta be, Zetsus in disguise, see.
    Naruto, he gets a clue. Wants to fight, what will they do? Raikage flashback, Bee has got his back, Madara makes Pains(ies) with the Jinchuurikis.

    Hmm, not bad considering I made that up on the spot.
    Bravo, if I may say so.

    Really well done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyan D. Funk View Post
    Also armadillo schlong.
    Uh-huh.......

    Well I think I've decided to wait another month or two before jumping back in. In the hopes that things may improve? Wishful thinking I know. But I keep remembering the Zabuza arc, and I can't help but wish that Naruto could end on a (some-what) highnote.

    Also, I must say, this is the first time I've visited this thread in a while, and I'm impressed to see actual Naruto discussion...or is this just a rare occurrence?

  20. #2460
    The Nice Guy Outerspec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Naruto Thread XI

    Quote Originally Posted by Namixluffy2 View Post
    Naruto chooses to follow Sasuke and your example about him going wherever Sasuke is doesn't make sense. Naruto would do the same for everyone, He went apeshit for Gaara(What destiny do they share). Naruto does the something if his friends are in danger. He goes apeshit for them until he knocks some sense into them/saves them. Gaara being captured he wasn't thinking of anything else. Even turning 3-4tails for a guy who tried to kill him. If Gaara was still captured at this very moment Naruto would still be going after him. He follows Sasuke because he being himself. Uchia have noting to do with it. Naruto going back on his word to him means he doesn't deserve to be Hokage.
    Either way Naruto is following his destiny. He persistent never-give-up-on-a-person attitude is just a guarantee that he will confront Sasuke as is fated.

    You seem not to understand me here. Their is only a prophecy because Naruto made it that way. The Toad can tell the future. Wats your point? He Made it that way. Their wouldn't have been a prophecy if Naruto didn't make it that way. He still choose it. Just read my previous post.
    I see what you're trying to say. You're saying The Great Toad is just looking into the future and telling Jiraiya what he sees. He sees a kid who does this all this awesome stuff and then reports back to Jiraiya the future events. Now here's your main point: The prophecy wouldn't be possible if it weren't for future Naruto's actions right? The prophecy is based off of future events, not a pre-determined destiny. Ok, let's pretend this whole Naruto bringing peace to the Ninja World or destroying it is just his choice, not his destiny or fate. Alright, now tell me this...

    Wouldn't you have to ignore everything and everyone in the manga that says this is his destiny? While you're at it how do you explain him being called the 'Destined Child'?

    The Great Toad did not create Naruto's destiny. He just announced it. Definition of destiny: "An event (or a course of events) that will inevitably happen in the future". As you said The Great Toad saw into the future and saw the inevitable events of Naruto's future. What The Great Toad saw...Naruto's destiny. Choices are too numerous and too unpredictable to tell the future with and to come out with such a certain answer as, 'This person will wind up in this exact position and be left with these certain choices'. Sounds more like destiny rather than The Great Toad predicting every single life choice Naruto will make in his life.

    Why didn't Nagato fulfil his destiny then? I thought he was destined. Didn't the frog also say one of his students would destroy the world. Since Nagato is dead doesn't that mean Naruto has the chance to destroy the earth. Which means its a choice.
    The prophecy foretold that Jiraiya's student (the Destined Child) would either destroy the Ninja World or bring it peace. It turned out Naruto and Nagato together were the Destined Child so when Nagato sided with Naruto he helped choose the path of bringing peace to the Ninja World. Though, it should be noted Nagato was already trying to do that, just in a more doomsday device solution sort of way. Also Jiraiya choosing not to give up and writing that book helped choose the course of the world and blah, blah, blah...

    Seriously do you save all these pages and name them by what's in it or do you just remember. Again good find, I was looking for that too.
    I just know where to find pages as reference for the mangas I read. I make mental notes for important or notable stuff in case I want to go back and confirm something.
    Last edited by Outerspec; July 1st, 2011 at 11:26 PM.
    Everything's Eventual...


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