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Thread: Chapter 620: "The Theme Park We Dreamed Of" Discussion

  1. #301

    Default Re: Chapter 620: "The Theme Park We Dreamed Of" Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by lizard81288 View Post
    also, does that mean Fisher Tiger....has Tiger blood in him
    >_>
    <_<
    Oh. Charlie Sheen reference. Guffaw.

    And I think Robo's avatar is somehow affecting his posts. Almost like he's being controlled by the spirit of Zephos himself.

  2. #302

    Default Re: Chapter 620: "The Theme Park We Dreamed Of" Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Robo Gorilla View Post
    I hear you, dude, fuck story, as long as shit happens that's all I care about. I mean it's really dumb that one piece is like 600 chapters long, I wish somebody would just tell me how it ends all ready, that's all I care about.
    Clearly, you have some reading comprehension disabilities. I don't mind long drawn out stuff, as long as it is happening with the Strawhat characters. I'm one of those guys that thinks this arc is moving too fast, and hoped it would've progressed slower. However, I prefer the content to be more heavily on the Strawhats because those are the characters I read the series for. Not some side chars that I'll forget 1 chapter after the arc ends.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robo Gorilla View Post
    So you prefer flat, 2-dimensional side characters instead of fleshed out believable characters? Have you tried Bleach by any chance? You'd love it.
    You can still get good depth of character without a flashback. Like I said, some text heavy panels describing these characters would do them enough justice in my mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robo Gorilla View Post
    Yes, and this flashback is going to deal with this massive arc that we're just now starting that has been being built up for years. Do you honestly believe that the two are going to just disappear after this arc? FT was a revolutionary before even Dragon, Otohime was looking to change the world.
    Considering both characters are dead, yes they will entirely become irrelevant as the series progresses except for some passive mentioning of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robo Gorilla View Post
    Sorry that I had to be the one to break it to you dude, but you are an idiot and you're opinion does suck.
    Congrats dude, you're e-hard. Good luck getting by in life with such an attitude. A word of advice, though I doubt you'll heed it considering the way you've already reacted, change the way you respond to beliefs that go against your own. Take it in for what it's worth, and don't automatically dismiss something because you think it's wrong. Not everyone is wired or tuned the same way, and you'll see a wide array of opinions on every subject.

    I'll be glad to debate this with you more, but won't hesitate to just ignore your comments from henceforth if this is how you conduct yourself. Despite being the internet, this is still a community, and the better you conduct yourself, the better time everyone will have.

  3. #303
    21st Century Schizoid Man Johnny B. Decent's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 620: "The Theme Park We Dreamed Of" Discussion

    http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/83002268/5

    Was Muuhi always this big, because he's looking like Moriah/Kuma big there.

  4. #304

    Default Re: Chapter 620: "The Theme Park We Dreamed Of" Discussion

    Is that kurobi with an afro standind next to chew?

  5. #305
    Discovered Stowaway D-kun's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 620: "The Theme Park We Dreamed Of" Discussion

    Incredible chapter, loved the references, I'm really excited for this flashback, Fisher Tiger looks awesome.

  6. #306
    Finally came back around Akumu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 620: "The Theme Park We Dreamed Of" Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by city_lights31 View Post
    Good Chapter! I can't freaking wait for this flashback! Has there ever been a more anticipated and longley awaited flashback in One Piece? This is going to be epic!
    Well I think the Roger one we are destined to get may be slightly more anticipated...

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkestsith6 View Post
    Personally, I'd prefer a summary of what happened over several pages rather than a long flashback.
    You do know the the cardinal rule of any medium that uses writing to convey a story is to "show don't tell," right?

    Just summarizing the events greatly cuts down on the impact.

    What if Oda had just skipped Nami's flashback and Nojiko just say "Our mom was killed by the Arlong Pirates and then Nami went to work for them to buy the village back?" Would that have had anywhere near the impact that a full flashback would have?
    No way.

    What about Choppers? Or Robins? Or anyone else on the crew?

    Would Norland's story have been nearly as fantastic if Wiper had simply been told what had happened?

    You can't connect with, and understand, characters in a summary.

  7. #307
    Make good art city_lights31's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 620: "The Theme Park We Dreamed Of" Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkestsith6 View Post
    Clearly, you have some reading comprehension disabilities. I don't mind long drawn out stuff, as long as it is happening with the Strawhat characters. I'm one of those guys that thinks this arc is moving too fast, and hoped it would've progressed slower. However, I prefer the content to be more heavily on the Strawhats because those are the characters I read the series for. Not some side chars that I'll forget 1 chapter after the arc ends.
    16 Chars of grabs popcorn
    Last edited by city_lights31; April 6th, 2011 at 10:58 PM.

    read.


  8. #308

    Default Re: Chapter 620: "The Theme Park We Dreamed Of" Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkestsith6 View Post
    Clearly, you have some reading comprehension disabilities. I don't mind long drawn out stuff, as long as it is happening with the Strawhat characters. I'm one of those guys that thinks this arc is moving too fast, and hoped it would've progressed slower. However, I prefer the content to be more heavily on the Strawhats because those are the characters I read the series for. Not some side chars that I'll forget 1 chapter after the arc ends.


    You can still get good depth of character without a flashback. Like I said, some text heavy panels describing these characters would do them enough justice in my mind.


    Considering both characters are dead, yes they will entirely become irrelevant as the series progresses except for some passive mentioning of them.


    Congrats dude, you're e-hard. Good luck getting by in life with such an attitude. A word of advice, though I doubt you'll heed it considering the way you've already reacted, change the way you respond to beliefs that go against your own. Take it in for what it's worth, and don't automatically dismiss something because you think it's wrong. Not everyone is wired or tuned the same way, and you'll see a wide array of opinions on every subject.

    I'll be glad to debate this with you more, but won't hesitate to just ignore your comments from henceforth if this is how you conduct yourself. Despite being the internet, this is still a community, and the better you conduct yourself, the better time everyone will have.
    Post of the year right here folks.

  9. #309
    The Golden Witch otakufan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 620: "The Theme Park We Dreamed Of" Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkestsith6 View Post
    I like stories that focus more on the "now" than the past. Personally, I'd prefer a summary of what happened over several pages rather than a long flashback. I want to see how the SH's handle the news, what happens afterwards, etc. rather than watching the news unfold in the flashback.

    To me, characters like the SH's are the most fun for me to watch. I don't care much for depth in the development of these new characters like Fisher Tiger/Queen Otohime. I already know enough about them (the Queen is about promoting peace between humans and Fisher Tiger is about taking direct action). It's just how I prefer stories more. Unless these characters show up later (both are dead), personally, it's not important to me how deep their character is.

    A flashback with Sabo, for instance, basically alluded to the fact that we will be seeing him down the line in the story, so it was interesting to see the flashback (even though much of it was a bore, but I can deal with it).

    But oh noes, I'm disagreeing with the consensus, let's all react by flaming the user. Geez, learn to accept other people's, even if you disagree with them. There's not much productivity in responding to anyone you disagree with "you're in idiot, and your opinion sucks."



    Yes, I'm well aware it'll likely answer that question, but the question could just as easily be answered across several pages rather than a long flashback. I'm hoping this flashback is short for that reason
    Firstly, this is not intended as a "flame" post, so I'd appreciate that you not take it as such.

    Having said that, the present is built upon the past. Flashbacks serve to provide us with the context needed to appreciate the characters' (old and new) actions. Fisher Tiger and Queen Otohime may be long dead, but their actions and desires influenced a number of others, not the least of which was Arlong, who in turn influenced Hodi. The current actions of Hodi's crew has EVERYTHING to do with the long-running conflict between Otohime and Fisher's differing methods to resolving the plight of their people. Without appreciating the nature of that conflict, neither we nor the characters can appreciate the nature of the current one, and thus it cannot be resolved in a satisfactory manner.

    Luffy could stop the storytime now and go beat Hodi back up to the surface of the ocean - he's long had a "spider sense" of who needs to be taken down to resolve a situation (Crocodile, Lucci, etc.) - but everything would feel forced and disjointed, effectively turning Hodi into the "baddie of the week" rather than a true villain whose defeat has true meaning behind it. He'd be little more than a cardboard cutout, an utterly two-dimensional character who would be forgotten by the time the Strawhats set sail again.

    What's more, Oda's been building to this arc and this flashback for quite some time. This flashback also adds to the character of Arlong himself: not giving him an excuse for his actions back in the East Blue, but adding some depth to them and showing what drove him to become the monster he was. It also ties in to the character of Jinbei, and Hachi. It shows what the man who saved Hancock and her sisters was like. Considering Tiger's actions in Mariejois, it is certain to add to the corruption of the World Government and the Celestial Dragons.

    This flashback ties into the heart of the overarching narrative and, while a summery can tell you "what" happens, it is much harder to convey "why" something happens, and that "why" can change everything. Take the instance of Montblanc Noland back in Skypiea. All we knew at the start was that he came to Jaya and found a great city of gold, then returned years later to find it had vanished. By word of Cricket, we also knew that this made him weep, but at that time we didn't know why. Perhaps Noland was a greedy man, who merely wanted the gold for his kingdom and the prestige that would give him? It was only later, when we were given the full story of Noland and his friendship with Kalgara that the truth of that matter was revealed.

    To go back to the Luffy/Ace/Sabo flashback: in addition to introducing Sabo, both as Luffy's other brother and as a possible future character, the flashback gave depth to Luffy and Ace's relationship. Prior to Impel Down, we really only had Ace and Luffy's word that they were brothers, and I don't mean that in a "someone check the birth records" way. Two men can be brothers, but not have much of a relationship. The story told through Impel Down, Marineford, and finally Luffy's flashback shows us the full depth of their brotherhood. They lived together, they played together, they fought together, and they suffered loss together. That story shaped Luffy into the person he was throughout the first half of the story. The "death" of Sabo, more than anything else, explains why he was always so willing to put everything on the line to help his friends: he never wants to feels that helplessness again; never wants to see those he loves in pain and not be able to help. That flashback helped to truly drive home the impact of Ace's death on Luffy.

    I'm afraid this post's length has gotten a bit out of control and I have class early tomorrow morning, so I'm going to end it here... My point is this: the present is built upon the past and, without understanding the past, the present has little meaning. Without this flashback, Hodi would be a two-dimensional Arlong clone, while with it, despite Arlong's unmistakable influence, he has the chance to develop into a beast all his own.

    And all that is only looking at one aspect of this arc. Vander Decken's story may not mingle with this flashback in the slightest, save for keeping Shirahoshi from attending her mother's funeral, and Caribou could yet turn out to be a major factor in and of himself, particularly if he gets his mucky paws on the Princess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkestsith6 View Post
    Clearly, you have some reading comprehension disabilities. I don't mind long drawn out stuff, as long as it is happening with the Strawhat characters. I'm one of those guys that thinks this arc is moving too fast, and hoped it would've progressed slower. However, I prefer the content to be more heavily on the Strawhats because those are the characters I read the series for. Not some side chars that I'll forget 1 chapter after the arc ends.


    You can still get good depth of character without a flashback. Like I said, some text heavy panels describing these characters would do them enough justice in my mind.


    Considering both characters are dead, yes they will entirely become irrelevant as the series progresses except for some passive mentioning of them.
    The deceased characters in this flashback are not important in and of themselves... Rather, they are important because of the impact their actions had upon the current state of Fishman Island (alongside the status of Fishmen across the world), not to mention many of the principle actors in the unfolding drama.
    Last edited by otakufan; April 6th, 2011 at 10:05 PM. Reason: Must...Stop...Tweaking... SLEEP!!!

  10. #310

    Default Re: Chapter 620: "The Theme Park We Dreamed Of" Discussion

    thanks for the chapter

  11. #311

    Default Re: Chapter 620: "The Theme Park We Dreamed Of" Discussion

    I didn't like the chapter very much. I think I liked sanji better when he was silently nosebleeding instead of running his mouth.

  12. #312

    Default Re: Chapter 620: "The Theme Park We Dreamed Of" Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkestsith6 View Post
    tl;dr snipped
    Firstly, this is intended as a "flame" post, so I'd appreciate that you do take it as such.

    I'VE BEEN WAITING YEARS FOR A FISHER TIGER STORY GOD DAMN IT, STFU AND JUST LET ME HAVE MY ORGASM

    kthxbye.
    Last edited by Aohige_AP; April 6th, 2011 at 10:38 PM. Reason: obviously, this is a "joke" post so I'd appreciate it if you take it as such.

  13. #313
    Partially insane Cymelion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 620: "The Theme Park We Dreamed Of" Discussion

    You know when I came to One Piece there was a lot that was already there to watch (yes anime first here) so when I went back and read it all it flowed smoothly and not just the flashbacks but entire arcs could be read in little to no time at all. But I imagine back when the arcs were being presented they took their time - some arcs had chapters that pushed the story forward but for the week they came out no doubt there was minor dissapointment from them.

    Hell I think the biggest flashback I got to be propperly part of was the Sabo one and even then while interesting not every chapter held me rapt with attention.
    I think this is where Darkestsith6 is coming from - not only will the chapters be exposition but they will be exposition about a story that the Strawhats do not take part in - however past characters will no doubt flesh out situations and well maybe the hatred we all have for Arlong can even be questioned here. I'm pretty sure that while his actions were horrific to us involving Bellamare the set up for him to be there may well allow us to understand what catalyst caused him to become what he became.

    That said I have a feeling this flashback will be a patchy one - where it will be visable the SH's are being told this story as disjointed as that may sound I think it will be to watch the SH's absorbing the reasons behind what happened.

    One thing we can be sure of - Jimbei shows actual regret at his actions of having Arlong loose in East Blue before he knew of Nami's involvement, which leads me to suspect Arlong was sent to East Blue for reasons other then what he ended up doing.

  14. #314
    Fishmen fan. Reyairia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 620: "The Theme Park We Dreamed Of" Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Aohige_AP View Post
    Firstly, this is intended as a "flame" post, so I'd appreciate that you do take it as such.

    I'VE BEEN WAITING YEARS FOR A FISHER TIGER STORY DAMNIT, STFU AND JUST LET ME HAVE MY ORGASM

    kthxbye.
    Completely agreed. :D

  15. #315
    Calm before the storm dinty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 620: "The Theme Park We Dreamed Of" Discussion

    Ok, 2nd attempt -- hopefully this one doesn't get "eaten" too (just to be safe I'm copying it to a Word doc before hitting the submit button!)

    So much great stuff to mull over in this chapter, but because of that it's hard to know where to start yakking, and more importantly, when to stop. I've already tagged something like 15 messages and I'm only half-way through reading the thread, so my apologies if stuff I'm raising here has already been addressed in the parts of the thread that I haven't read yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJew View Post
    The unexpected *damn* moment for me: Page 10, last panel ... That Jimbei reaction shot is veeeeerrrrryyyyy telling.
    Same here, SuperJew. I'm fact, my reaction nearly mirrored Jimbei's.

    I like that moment best because it says a lot about Jimbei in particular and about conflict/war in general. From what we know of Jimbei, he's an honorable and principled guy who would probably do whatever he could to minimize conflict/war whenever possible. We don't know if this was always the case, but we'll probably soon find out in the flashback. But assuming that Jimbei was as principled then as he is now, then his options must have been pretty grim for him to decide that the least awful of the options would be to let Arlong run riot through the most peaceful of the Blues. Maybe he thought that Arlong would calm down after being in proximity to humans who didn't automatically hate fishmen -- or maybe Arlong lied and told Jimbei that he would?

    But from the shocked and fearful look on Jimbei's face, it seems as though it might not have occurred to him that someone who had once been treated like a slave would -- almost instantly after gaining his freedom -- seek to enslave others.

    Speaking about conflict/war in general now: it's always easier to hate an abstraction than to hate a real person. It's much easier to justify violence towards others when they remain "others" -- that is, when you know them only as an abstraction: as a particular country, a particular race, a particular socio-economic-class, a particular demographic, etc. But when you dig deeper into that segment of the population and begin to recognize the individuals within it, and see that they have similar troubles to your own, and similar concerns to your own, and similar hopes as your own, then it becomes a lot harder to hate and to justify oppression, violence, etc, and hopefully they do the same and that leads to an eventual cease fire or truce.

    I think that's also why this scene is so powerful -- because Jimbei, up until now, has probably thought of "the humans of East Blue" in a mostly abstract sense (seeing the forest, not the individual trees). What Sanji is doing in this scene is forcing Jimbei to see "East Blue humans" as individuals, so that he can see the toll that his (Jimbei's) decision took on the humans of East Blue -- specifically on those in Cocoyashi, who probably all harbored no hatred of fishmen or mermen (and maybe even no knowledge of them) until after Arlong enslaved the island.


    Quote Originally Posted by boiga View Post
    We also have the two conflicting reform movements: do you fight violently against repression, revenging the atrocities committed against your people with similarly heinous acts? Or do you submit to authority, protest nonviolently, and try to reform from within the current abusive power dynamic. Considering all that's going on in the Mideast these days, this theme is tremendously topical.... but as a universal social dynamic, maybe any time period could offer examples of this dichotomy.
    That's the question that nobody has yet been able to answer, so it will be interesting to see how Oda addresses/resolves it. Comparisons between Malcolm X and MLKjr are spot on, though my initial thought when reading about Otohime was Gandhi (who of course influenced MLKjr).

    And since Hachi tells us that, after an initial period of peace and friendship -- pirates were primarily responsible for bringing chaos, violence and discrimination to Fishman Island, it will come full-circle if the SH pirates can restore the peace.

    I love that face that he gets when he is deciding his moral stance on a complicated issue. It must be the anticipation ... I suppose I envy his conviction while admiring the subtlety of his process.
    I like it because you can tell that he's listening intently, while at the same time cogitating intently. The ear is open, but the eyes are staring upward -- or inward.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silence View Post
    Oda neither apologizes for or excuses the things Arlong has done, but has presented them in a much more understandable light - I appreciate that.
    I like that too -- I remember reading in a book about Japanese culture (wish I could remember which one!) that it's considered bad form not to give some sort of gesture of sympathy -- even just a token one -- towards the feelings of your enemy. That concept, if it's true, seems to be playing out here, too -- and in just about every post-defeat cover-story too (Wapol, Enel, Hachi, etc). I like it. It keeps all shades of gray from being reduced to black and white.

    aggh ... I'm all talked out for tonight, and there were so many other interesting points raised in posts after these, too..

    Anyways, excellent chapter! Glad to see FI finally on solid ground.
    Last edited by dinty; April 6th, 2011 at 11:03 PM.
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    over-analyzing ..."

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  16. #316

    Default Re: Chapter 620: "The Theme Park We Dreamed Of" Discussion

    Great chapter. Oda is the man for the Arlong Park x Saboady Park connection. Can't wait to see how this flash back plays out!
    Out of all the chocolate manga, I'll take One Piece!

    Mangastream

  17. #317

    Default Re: Chapter 620: "The Theme Park We Dreamed Of" Discussion

    Might have been said before but the Queen = MLK/xavier and Fisher-Tiger = Malcom X/ Magneto. Beautiful chapter
    Ganzbino

  18. #318
    Hells Memories Kishido's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 620: "The Theme Park We Dreamed Of" Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by fistsofrage View Post
    I didn't like the chapter very much. I think I liked sanji better when he was silently nosebleeding instead of running his mouth.
    And 99 % would disagree with you

  19. #319
    check up from the neck up eerie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 620: "The Theme Park We Dreamed Of" Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by moe lester518 View Post
    Might have been said before but the Queen = MLK/xavier and Fisher-Tiger = Malcom X/ Magneto. Beautiful chapter
    Indeed, it has been. Robby said that. But I definitely agree- it's starting to seem that way.

  20. #320
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    Default Re: Chapter 620: "The Theme Park We Dreamed Of" Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkestsith6 View Post
    There's not much productivity in responding to anyone you disagree with "you're in idiot, and your opinion sucks."
    You're an idiot, and your opinion sucks.

    But seriously, I do not understand you at all. One Piece is about the "now" in that flashbacks very exclusively refer to what characters are either learning or thinking about right now. The only time we had a flashback (that I can remember) that wasn't made explicit to at least one member of the crew was back to Noland, and even that was a story being actively told by one of the Shandorians.

    We only "have to" sit through this flashback as long as the Straw Hats do. They need this shit explained to them. Exposition is not _just_ important for the audience.

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