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Thread: Attack on Titan

  1. #4401

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Quote Originally Posted by SirCaesar View Post
    He could have done it on Day One, he would have done it on Day One (the entire reason Ed becomes a state alchemist is to pursue the retrieval of Al's body), and there is nothing closely connected to it in the final fight or character arc that would justify the sudden enlightening.

    A mechanic that leads to the same conclusion does fit well with the themes, I agree. But I have an issue with the execution: Ed simply choosing to sacrifice the gate... just because he figured it out somehow... nah, sorry. It kind of invalidates their whole journey.
    Was it really sudden enlightening or was it just a teenage boy that based his self worth on his alchemy prowess now witnessing people coming together and fighting for each other and fighting for him that in turn touched him and made him realized that through his journey he has made friends and that his self worth should not be entirely based on his alchemy prowess.

    Basically, it's the manifestation and realization of what the self really is. Alchemy is highly valued in the world and the brothers based their entire existence on their ability to transmute.
    You can say that if you were to take that away from Edward in episode 1 he would have a severe breakdown and we would end the story then and there. It was only after a longass journey and several PTSDs that he realized "hey I have new and more meaningful stuff in my life now so maybe now I'll grow the balls to say fuck it to this ability that the whole world loves and I based my entire worth on."

    The weight of his sacrifice is also vastly different in chapter 1 and in the final chapter. The depth of his understanding towards alchemy has increased in his journey, he saw how alchemy can be used for wars, human experimentations, literal genocide and immortal monsters. To be honest, it was not as if he always did understood the consequences and value of alchemy.
    The very alchemy that the society told him repeatedly he is valued for and is the solution to everything was one that caused him so much emotional pain.

    When he wanted to revive his mother, alchemy.
    When he failed and has to stop his brother's soul from disappearing, alchemy
    When he wants to get their bodies back? alchemy
    It is literally the innate belief in his world that alchemy is the solution to everything.
    Ed in chapter 1 would not have the knowledge, the courage and the experience to sacrifice the key to the solution to all of the world's problems.
    It was only after all the shit he has been through that he realized that Alchemy is useful and is the solution to all problems but is also the root of all problems.
    Last edited by zeltrax225; April 11th, 2021 at 09:30 PM.

  2. #4402
    Discovered Stowaway Ivotas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Don't hate the ending like most people seem to do because Attack on Titan never struck me as a story where all characters will get a dedicated conclusion. I can see why people aren't satisfied on that matter but to me it just doesn't matter with this series. Overall I say it's not a terrible ending but certainly not great or on par with how the entire series was.

    The thing I don't like is the revelation of Eren's true motives. What I will give it credit for is that it was a conscious decision by Eren to wipe everyone out instead of him being mind controlled and needed to be saved. As I said a few months back, when the genocide started, it appears that this entire series is a villain origin story and we've been tricked to believe that it was a hero's story. So with Eren having full control of his actions that still stands.

    What I'm having a problem with is however that the actual heroes to this story now show gratitude to what he did. Ok, I get it. He did it for them. But here lies the problem. That's not a groundbreaking revelation. It was clear from the get go that Eren uses the rumbling for the sake of protecting the Eldians. The only difference now is that he was not aiming to kill 100% of the world but just 80%. That suddenly makes it ok? O.o

    Again I appreciate that compared to other villains he doesn't want to destroy for the sake of destruction but because he see's himself as the hero here. That's how you write a villain with depth. That's also why Thanos in Infinity War is so compelling. But at the end of the day the guy has to stay a villain. Let's just continue the comparison to Thanos with this ending. Basically Armin and company now being grateful to Eren is like all of the surviving Avangers actually don't undo the finger snap but be grateful to Thanos for killing 50% of the universe after Thor chopped his head off at the beginning of Endgame. No need to go back in time to undo it because now the universe can flourish. I know that in terms of sheer numbers Thanos killed more but in terms of percantage Eren killed far more and it cannot be undone. And that not being frowned upon by the actual heroes of the story is something I'm having a problem with. Don't like the message here at all.



  3. #4403
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    I find it hard to believe that none of Eren's friends suffered intense survivor's guilt and/or committed suicide after realizing his motives for everything he'd done.

  4. #4404

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Considering all the shit they went through over the course of the series that would've been a bit.....much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  5. #4405
    Discovered Stowaway Ivotas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Doesn't have to go that far but just show some sign that even after the reveal you are not ok with it. I mean they fought and killed Eren in the first place because they are not ok with him killing the entire world for their sake. Literally the only new information they got out of this reveal is "oh, so he didn't hate us after all". They don't even have to go into deep monologues here. Just something like "I'm glad that you don't hate us but I still cannot accept your methods" That would be enough to get the point across.



  6. #4406
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    the more i think about the ending the more i like it. only a few problems with the execution prevent me from considering AoT a flawless masterpiece instead of a flawed one.

  7. #4407

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivotas View Post
    Doesn't have to go that far but just show some sign that even after the reveal you are not ok with it. I mean they fought and killed Eren in the first place because they are not ok with him killing the entire world for their sake. Literally the only new information they got out of this reveal is "oh, so he didn't hate us after all". They don't even have to go into deep monologues here. Just something like "I'm glad that you don't hate us but I still cannot accept your methods" That would be enough to get the point across.
    But that's exactly what Armin said: "I'm grateful you did something this horrible for us, but it's still an error" (Thank you for becoming a mass murderer for our sake. I won't let this error go to waste.)

  8. #4408

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    It might be a nuance of the transaltion, the crappy fast one seemed lacking, I took it like that but still..
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  9. #4409
    Discovered Stowaway Ivotas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kizuchan View Post
    But that's exactly what Armin said: "I'm grateful you did something this horrible for us, but it's still an error" (Thank you for becoming a mass murderer for our sake. I won't let this error go to waste.)
    Quote Originally Posted by maxterdexter View Post
    It might be a nuance of the transaltion, the crappy fast one seemed lacking, I took it like that but still..
    Sorry for not being clear. It's exactly as Maxterdexter said it. It's a fast one that seemed lacking plus it's also very unclear on what the "error" actually is. Is the error Eren's method or is the error actually that Eren now looks like a mass murderer while he actually did this to save the world? And even if it is the former. Labeling as an error just somehow has the "well, I guess it can't be helped" feeling to it. To me a "I cannot accept this" a much stronger and clear stance on this being wrong and there's no way how your motivations can make this right feel to it. It carries much more of the "I will stop you not to become heroes but because you're method is just plain wrong" feeling behind it than just labeling it vaguely as an error

    Also paired with the panel where Armin says the error thing, his expression to me looks more like he's sad to part ways with his best friend who after all was still his friend instead of showing any signs that this is unacceptable. For instance having Armin have a serious face or even turn his back on Eren would give the scene a totally different feel to it. Hope I could explain the difference a bit better this time around.
    Last edited by Ivotas; April 13th, 2021 at 07:01 PM.



  10. #4410

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Oh that. I've seen this take around and I can see that. It's a sad farewell to a friend he knew rather than someone who murdered millions. The focus on the following scenes is on everyone getting back their loved ones rather than a somber "is this worth the cost?", but I at least take it over the endings where the bad guy is suddenly forgiven and lives out the rest of his life in peace. The Yeagerists are also painted as the next enemy to fight. I don't think it excuses Eren, but the tonal focus is also probably a little misplaced. I can see that.

    Eren killed millions. A shocked face by Armin and a line about what he did was wrong is probably is too little. Just have a big page of Armin yelling at Eren about that. Make it a bigger thing, really.
    The translation I'm talking about is this one:
    Spoiler:
    But we also do get this after all of the crying is done:
    Last edited by Kizuchan; April 14th, 2021 at 01:58 AM.

  11. #4411
    Discovered Stowaway Ivotas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Yeah, that's what I meant. I get what you mean with it's better than actually forgiving him. To me however this really leaves a very sour taste in my mouth. Still definitely consider this in my top ten manga because of how bold it most of the time was and showing great character moments.

    I'm really curious if we will ever get an interview where the original bad ending will be revealed. Now more than ever I'm curious to find out how exactly it would have played out.



  12. #4412
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    TotallyNotMark gave his thoughts on the matter. It's a pretty interesting take.

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  13. #4413

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivotas View Post
    Yeah, that's what I meant. I get what you mean with it's better than actually forgiving him. To me however this really leaves a very sour taste in my mouth. Still definitely consider this in my top ten manga because of how bold it most of the time was and showing great character moments.

    I'm really curious if we will ever get an interview where the original bad ending will be revealed. Now more than ever I'm curious to find out how exactly it would have played out.
    While it doesn't bother me that much, I totally get why that would bother people/you.

    By the way, on a more general note, more pages are apparently scheduled for the volume release of the chapter. I'm curious where the additions will be put.

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