+ Reply to Thread
Page 162 of 244 FirstFirst ... 62 112 152 160 161 162 163 164 172 212 ... LastLast
Results 3,221 to 3,240 of 4880

Thread: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

  1. #3221
    Sweet Home Chicago Cyan D. Funk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Huxley U.

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    Bloodraven can't warg, so he probably didn't know you could glitch the past like that.

    On that note, RIP Brynden Rivers. You were an asshole in life, but less of an asshole as a tree person.

  2. #3222

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    Wait, Bloodraven can't warg?

  3. #3223
    Corazón for SH!!! madriano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Brazil

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    Yeah... Isn't the power to connect through the weirwood using warg?

  4. #3224

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    They are two different powers, greendreaming is going into the weirdwood.net and seing other times, warging is going into animals and people and taking control.
    3DS FC: 0516-7666-3837
    SW-4128-8032-0729

  5. #3225
    Corazón for SH!!! madriano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Brazil

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by Song of Ice and Fire Wikia
    Greenseers had the greensight and were wargs as well.
    Or so they said.

  6. #3226
    Sweet Home Chicago Cyan D. Funk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Huxley U.

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    Bloodraven never shows the possession part of warging (and Bloodraven was the kind of guy who would be using that shit to ruin people constantly).

  7. #3227

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    the raven can obviously warg as well. He is the last greenseer meaning he is one of the only ones who can do both: warg and also see into the past....

    this is well established.

    moving on. GRRM himself has said that he doesn't want this show to be about magic or magic systems and that he still wants this to be primarly a story about people "the only thing worth writing about is the human heart in conflict with itself". So while foolio is mad about this detracting away from the story, grrm himself has said that he won't do that despite all the high magic already, and the time travel only adds further to the magic system. So I don't get why the complaint.

    Unless the showruners change that ofc. The book maybe will do a better job explaining the whole thing with hodor, but I won't like I've been complaining about cheap writing this entire season because D&D are hacks. I just don't think this was an example of that.

  8. #3228
    Banned Rank: Failed Mutineer
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    removed again

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanz View Post
    or... we could talk about how we were shown a close up shot on a man's genitals (possibly with warts on it) for absolutely no reason whatsoever.
    That was a nice start but I demand more. For every unnecessary tit shot I demand an equally long cock shot. Or balls. Butts don't count.

  9. #3229

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    fairly certain that cock was fake.

  10. #3230
    Banned Rank: Failed Mutineer
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    removed again

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    Most filmed dicks are fake but I will settle for fake! It's a start. I've seen so many muffs on HBO. I know Lena Dunhams like the back of my hand. It's time for the dicks to rise!

  11. #3231

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by Foolio View Post
    Well remember that I'm talking about paradoxical time travel. If someone wants to time travel just to romp around for fun then I don't have an inherent problem with it. With that in mind, for me it's simply that it's a really weak, unsatisfying plot device. At its worst it's a lazy, super cheap cop-out for why things happen. At best it's just something that doesn't really make sense (hence the paradox part), which is frustrating here since it's a world so driven by political intrigue and plotting and scheming and wars and alliances and outcasts struggling to survive. Suddenly the future is affecting the past and it makes everything pre-determined and leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

    So yeah aside from comedy / something not meant to be taken seriously, or a work whose purpose is to explore the nature of time, I consider it automatically bad writing.
    Is it a paradox though? Can the paradox not be resolved under the assumption that all events are deterministic and there's no free will? xD

    Just thinking about this now though, I've realised why I don't have a problem with this instance of time shenanigans, and where I would draw the line. Here, it doesn't really make a difference. You could easily conceive that without Bran damaging Hodor in his childhood, Hodor would still be there with them in the present and carry Bran around and would still do what he did had Bran just warged into him and made it happen rather than there being any time travel, more or less. Within reasonable doubt.

    If we start seeing a lot of stuff like say Bran influencing his past self or a lot of past significant events just being the result of Bran's manipulations, say, that would be too far for me (the first because it's unpleasantly mindbending when you try to think about something like character growth, and the second because it's too OP to be satisfying for me). Not that I have a problem with the idea of people having gone to the past and whispered things into the ears of various people here and there. That's basically a prophecy, and comes with the usual catches and caveats.

    That's so subjective and waffly that I'm not surprised different people draw the line in different places :p

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabra View Post
    So Hodor was robbed of his childhood, abused as a slave/pokemon during adulthood and ultimately sacrificed by Bran cause he's "the chosen one"? How is this even remotely touching?

    I'm probably missing something because people seem to be cool with it, but if not then that little shit just became my most hated character in the series. Not love to hate like Cersei, just hate hate.
    I think it is supposed to be horrible, right? But in Bran's defence, it's not clear how aware he is of what he's doing. He's clearly conscious in the past so is he fully conscious of everything around Hodor, and so what's happening in the present? It's Meera who tells Hodor to hold the door, not Bran. Is Bran doing any more than willing Hodor to help? It's not really easy to tell, and how he reacts in future episodes to what he did might help clear that up.

    And, uh, in Meera's defence, that was the 'right' thing to do from a tactical perspective. Everyone sacrificed themselves for Bran there, because he is useful to defeat the others. And, unlike Bloodraven, isn't stuck in a tree. (Okay, that wasn't Summer's reason, ...)

    Though, I'm not clear on how important Bran really is? He has some knowledge about the Others, sure. But Bloodraven had that already for a long time. If it's a matter of telling people something, surely Bloodraven could already have done it. And, there is the question of what he knows or is to learn that is actually essential. The Night's Watch in the TV series know already how to kill Others, through Sam with dragonglass and Jon with Valyrian steel. So ... why?

  12. #3232

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    All events are deterministic and there is no free will is worse than an open paradox.
    3DS FC: 0516-7666-3837
    SW-4128-8032-0729

  13. #3233

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    There's a lot of debate about whether causal loops are really paradoxical. I'd say that's pretty different from claiming that causal loops are "well within the realm of time paradoxes". Plenty of research suggests that there are in fact infinitely many self consistent causal loops for any given time traveler and time machine that creates closed time loops. Just because we're reading about one doesn't mean it was the only possible one, and it's a mistake to think that a singular causal loop existing is in itself a time paradox.

    For an actual time travelling object, even the second law of thermodynamics can be upheld if the object is allowed to exchange entropy with its surroundings. In this case, there was no actual object that traveled, only information, so it's still well within the realm of possibility and not paradoxical whatsoever.

    Now, you can still say you dislike the writing. But you can't say that it's stupid because it's impossible.

  14. #3234

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    I guess we'll just have to wait til we create time travel and test it out.

  15. #3235

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    I never said it's stupid because it's impossible. I said it's stupid because it's a cheap, unsatisfying plot device that basically leads to a deterministic universe.

    But I don't know why you're treating this concept of time travel like a thing that actually exists and is researched (other than maybe theories involving quantum bullshit, but that's not going to help deal with actual time travel any more than studying electron tunneling is going to help me walk through walls). Unless you're going to go on about the possible non-linear nature of time or an infinite number of parallel universes or any of that stuff which is clearly NOT the conversation this story is trying to hold, then yes it is impossible and yes, me influencing my own past is paradoxical. The impossible part doesn't bother me that much because of the whole fantasy thing; lots of stuff we would call impossible happens. The paradox part does annoy me. ALL it does is weaken the storytelling.

  16. #3236

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    But it's only a paradox if it creates a self-contradictory (impossible) situation or series of events. Even then, these paradoxes can be resolved with multiple parallel timelines.

    This doesn't even require that, though. It's just a self consistent causal loop, and there's no consensus, even among real physicists, that they are in any way paradoxical (and may in fact happen all around us all the time).

    Again, you can dislike the writing, but that doesn't make it a paradox.

  17. #3237

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by Foolio View Post
    I never said it's stupid because it's impossible. I said it's stupid because it's a cheap, unsatisfying plot device that basically leads to a deterministic universe.

    But I don't know why you're treating this concept of time travel like a thing that actually exists and is researched (other than maybe theories involving quantum bullshit, but that's not going to help deal with actual time travel any more than studying electron tunneling is going to help me walk through walls). Unless you're going to go on about the possible non-linear nature of time or an infinite number of parallel universes or any of that stuff which is clearly NOT the conversation this story is trying to hold, then yes it is impossible and yes, me influencing my own past is paradoxical. The impossible part doesn't bother me that much because of the whole fantasy thing; lots of stuff we would call impossible happens. The paradox part does annoy me. ALL it does is weaken the storytelling.
    just answer me this one thing please...
    how do you know for sure that willys wouldn't have died the same way EVEN if he wasn't mind disabled by bran? what makes you so sure that bran did actually alter the timeline?

  18. #3238
    Corazón for SH!!! madriano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Brazil

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanz View Post
    just answer me this one thing please...
    how do you know for sure that willys wouldn't have died the same way EVEN if he wasn't mind disabled by bran? what makes you so sure that bran did actually alter the timeline?
    The fact alone that Hodor became what he's now was certainly due to Bran's time travel shenanigans. Wheter or not Hodor becoming Hodor would change or not the outcome of anything else doesn't change the fact that Bran did mess with the past.

  19. #3239

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    Causal loops are one of the main things considered time paradoxes. It might not strictly fit the logical definition of the word "paradox" but that's what it's called. Seriously go Google it.

    On the rest of the discussion, this is just going in circles. I still argue that the only reason Bran got to the point of altering the past, is that it was altered in the first place. Which makes it impossible no matter how you look at it. It means neither event could have come before the other, no matter how many timelines exist. Again, you can come up with some wild conception of the universe to fit it. Like maybe time doesn't really exist; all events in history just happen and time is just a weird lens through which we view some of them without any ability to actually influence them.

    But you've got to have some perspective. From our current understanding of reality, from our own experiences, from the assumption that free will exists in some form, from our reference point for understanding / becoming immersed in a fantasy story, this is nothing but a paradox. Why do you think I took special effort to say that the topic is okay if the work is explicitly about exploring the nature of time? Because that's delving into its own huge theoreticals, in which (if done right) we are MEANT to question reality and go into some truly bizarre theories that take us way out of our current frame of reference. But you don't take that and apply it to normal fiction and then go "but that means it's not impossible!" I think you would be equally disgusted if a biopic of JFK ended with space mercenaries from the future warping back to kill him. Cause I mean hey, it's not impossible!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanz View Post
    just answer me this one thing please...
    how do you know for sure that willys wouldn't have died the same way EVEN if he wasn't mind disabled by bran? what makes you so sure that bran did actually alter the timeline?
    Because that would be truly ridiculous. He would be a completely different person under completely different circumstances, and as someone in this thread already pointed out, a ton of things that happened to Bran (such as him surviving situations) specifically revolve around who Hodor is. Again, anything is "possible." It's just not credible.

    Plus, that doesn't really even have to be true for most of what we're talking about. Bran DID grow up with Hodor the way he is. Which already means Bran caused it. So when did he cause it? In a previous timeline? So what, history just re-writes itself at random in different timelines that sometimes just happen to affect each other, and this just happened to be one where Bran had both already done it last time, and now does it again? That is laughably tenuous and is going to crumble as soon as we find out all the other ways in which interacting with the past shaped the GoT world.
    Last edited by Foolio; May 25th, 2016 at 10:33 AM.

  20. #3240
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Somewhere

    Default Re: Game of Thrones (tv show thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by Foolio View Post
    I never said it's stupid because it's impossible. I said it's stupid because it's a cheap, unsatisfying plot device that basically leads to a deterministic universe.
    I'm pretty sure they already have prophecy in the story. How would a prophecy even work without a deterministic universe?



+ Reply to Thread

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts